Uppercut/Wrecking Blow cast time still not matching tooltip (video inside)

guybrushtb16_ESO

I just saw this on reddit and decided to test it, the following footage was just made on PTS 1.5.1, the tooltip for wrecking blow says 0.8s but it's really somewhere around 1.2s, which is still higher than what we were supposed to have even before the patch.

http://youtu.be/VWtUVKN8F84

Note that the detailed combat log starts somewhere midcast for the first one and it says 9.9 for the duration, so it's roughly 8 hits in 10s, which certainly is outside any margin for lag or error.

Also noteworthy is that with the cast being longer than 1s, the long animation interferes with animation cancelling light attack dps, which wouldn't have happened at 0.8s (and probably was the reason to target that number to begin with).

Circuitous

Cast Time has nothing to do with the length of the animation.

You can cast Uppercut, tap block 0.8 seconds later, and it will still cast. This is one of the basic fundamentals of animation canceling. It's why the system seems so dumb. Tons of skills have animations that are significantly longer than their cast time.

The issue is not that they didn't shorten the casting time properly, it's that they forgot to shorten the animation to match, making it almost impossible to verify.

Edit: Here's a video demonstrating what I mean. Don't have a stopwatch handy. http://www.hitbox.tv/video/296858

guybrushtb16_ESO

Circuitous wrote: »

Cast Time has nothing to do with the length of the animation.

You can cast Uppercut, tap block 0.8 seconds later, and it will still cast. This is one of the basic fundamentals of animation canceling. It's why the system seems so dumb. Tons of skills have animations that are significantly longer than their cast time.

The issue is not that they didn't shorten the casting time properly, it's that they forgot to shorten the animation to match, making it almost impossible to verify.

Edit: Here's a video demonstrating what I mean. Don't have a stopwatch handy. http://www.hitbox.tv/video/296858

Thanks for posting another video to illustrate. I do see what you mean about it, but I still think there is more to it than just the animation.

I tried the same again with both wrecking blow and flying dagger for comparison. Even with cancelling wrecking blow's animation, the next cast wouldn't happen any sooner, it's just that I got an extra light attack during the time the first wrecking blow's animation would have ran, but the interval between skills was still the same and it was bigger than 1s.

Testing with instants, this wasn't an issue with cancelling flying dagger; I could cancel into light attacks and still got about 1 cast per second for the skill.

The gcd for instant abilities seems to be 1 second, whether you cancel with light attacks or not, so I don't see why uppercut should have a longer aftercast than instants if it's cast time is below 1 gcd anyway.

Then again, animation cancelling is more prone to human error, and I never really tried weaving non instants like that so numbers are a little less consistent here, but I don't think it explains the difference completely.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

so now they just need to speed up the animation. That will probably have to wait for 1.7

They should reduce the cast time to 0.6 seconds and make the animation match that while they are at it.

Dominoid

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

so now they just need to speed up the animation. That will probably have to wait for 1.7

They should reduce the cast time to 0.6 seconds and make the animation match that while they are at it.

There are significant animation changes coming in 1.6 that were previewed at the Guild Summit.

Khivas_Carrick

Really now? Is there a video to this and may I see it's link please? lol

Thejollygreenone

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Really now? Is there a video to this and may I see it's link please? lol

I don't believe any videos were released about the guild summit, all I could find were audio recordings of what was said. And there's a lot of it. Gl.

But people have compiled notes on the basics of what was said, and those are pretty easy to find, if you're really curious.

CPT_CAPSLOCK

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

http://youtu.be/VWtUVKN8F84

This looks a lot faster than on live

ryu40010b14_ESO

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

http://youtu.be/VWtUVKN8F84

This looks a lot faster than on live

that video depicts a seriously fast uppercut animation but im not sure what buffs he was using to attain that speed and level of stamina regen lol.

guybrushtb16_ESO

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

This looks a lot faster than on live

that video depicts a seriously fast uppercut animation but im not sure what buffs he was using to attain that speed and level of stamina regen lol.

Next time read patch notes or at least the op before posting maybe...

ryu40010b14_ESO

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

This looks a lot faster than on live

that video depicts a seriously fast uppercut animation but im not sure what buffs he was using to attain that speed and level of stamina regen lol.

Next time read patch notes or at least the op before posting maybe...

I did read the notes my good sir, and i quote:
"Uppercut: Reduced the cast time for this ability by approximately 12%. We also increased the damage by approximately 2%."
And to me the video had a much faster uppercut speed increase than 12%
i watched him buff before attacking and i was unsure of what buffs he was using.

I myself am on the PTS testing and i could not attain that speed and was curious if i was doing something differently.

so before talking crap next time please think it over, grandma always said if you have nothing nice to say go play an FPS ;P but seriously be polite.

jackyd

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Cast Time has nothing to do with the length of the animation.

You can cast Uppercut, tap block 0.8 seconds later, and it will still cast. This is one of the basic fundamentals of animation canceling. It's why the system seems so dumb. Tons of skills have animations that are significantly longer than their cast time.

The issue is not that they didn't shorten the casting time properly, it's that they forgot to shorten the animation to match, making it almost impossible to verify.

Edit: Here's a video demonstrating what I mean. Don't have a stopwatch handy. http://www.hitbox.tv/video/296858

Thanks for posting another video to illustrate. I do see what you mean about it, but I still think there is more to it than just the animation.

I tried the same again with both wrecking blow and flying dagger for comparison. Even with cancelling wrecking blow's animation, the next cast wouldn't happen any sooner, it's just that I got an extra light attack during the time the first wrecking blow's animation would have ran, but the interval between skills was still the same and it was bigger than 1s.

Testing with instants, this wasn't an issue with cancelling flying dagger; I could cancel into light attacks and still got about 1 cast per second for the skill.

The gcd for instant abilities seems to be 1 second, whether you cancel with light attacks or not, so I don't see why uppercut should have a longer aftercast than instants if it's cast time is below 1 gcd anyway.

Then again, animation cancelling is more prone to human error, and I never really tried weaving non instants like that so numbers are a little less consistent here, but I don't think it explains the difference completely.

You can't animation cancel skills with each other, there is a defined priority system and it goes like this:

Block/Bash High priority

Skills/Spells medium priority

light/heavy attacks low priority

additionally there are hidden cooldowns like the 1s CD on light attacks to prevent you from spamming 6 different attacks/skills/bashes w/e in the course of 1s.

skills/spells with a cast time (Uppercut, Crystal Shards, Snipe etc...) can only have their animation cancelled at the end of the cast time, if you cancel prior to the end of their cast time you interrupt the skill usage.

Projectiles make this whole thing even more interesting due to travel time which makes it possible to have the impression of being hit by 4 attacks at the same second due to having a mix of projectiles and instant hitting abilities intertwined.

this means light/heavy attacks can be weaved in with skills/spells and block/bash

whereas skills/spells can only be weaved into a block/bash

so in order to make full use of skill weaving with uppercut you'd be looking at something like this:

light attack -> uppercut then at 0.8s into the uppercut animation -> bash -> light attack -> uppercut then at 0.8s into the uppercut animation -> bash -> rinse and repeat

in that rotation the bash animation should make up for the 0.2s left on the GCD of the light attack.

if you were to only do light attack -> uppercut -> light attack the next 2nd light attack wouldon ly happen at the end of the animation time of uppercut due to the priority system

when weavin instants this isn't as apparent as no matter what you do you have to wait out the GCD on the light attack.

Hope this helps clarify things.

ryu40010b14_ESO

great info @jackyd i have been practicing my animation cancelling to max my dps but its gonna need some work lol.
and i did find that the morphs @guybrushtb16_ESO was using in his video were Momentum and Surge so just damage boosts, nothing that increases attack speed.
so i will have to see what i was doing wrong to be so much slower.

thorspark

ryu40010b14_ESO wrote: »

great info @jackyd i have been practicing my animation cancelling to max my dps but its gonna need some work lol.
and i did find that the morphs @guybrushtb16_ESO was using in his video were Momentum and Surge so just damage boosts, nothing that increases attack speed.
so i will have to see what i was doing wrong to be so much slower.

A precision here. No skill/trait in the game increases attack speed (animation time). The only thing they affect is the GCD between skills/attacks, by reducing it.
The way it works at the moment is useful only if you use animation cancelling.

The problem is that with animation cancelling, only skilled players and/or the ones adding macros can be competitive in PvE Endgame.

All the casual ones are kinda left behind. And there are plenty of them who will one day stop the game for this reason.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Thanks, all. We're going to take a look and see if this is a legitimate issue, and will let you know what the scoop is as soon as we find out.

Thejollygreenone

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks, all. We're going to take a look and see if this is a legitimate issue, and will let you know what the scoop is as soon as we find out.

Woah, unexpected update on such a recent issue.

Thanks for being on top of things!

It'd be great if we were eventually able to get full use of this ability because animation cancelling didn't interfere so much

ZOS_GinaBruno

We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.

Hope that helps!

Thejollygreenone

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.

Hope that helps!

That does clear a lot up, thanks, but that kind of raises a few more questions for me.

So it seems effectively when using the ability back to back, or maybe even with any other feat/spell (the point being on the same priority level) it's really a 1.2 second cast time.

Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.

So begs the question does the cooldown only affect all feats/spells with the same priority? Or globally across all attacks even those of a higher priority (light/heavies and block/bash)? Or does the cooldown simply only restrict abilities that invoke said cooldown?

Specifically I want to know, even if you follow it up with an attack with a higher priority (light/heavies or bash) will I still get an effective 1.2 second cast time instead of the stated .8, or does the higher priority level bypass this?

I know this is getting a bit overly technical, but I'd say it's some necessary information to be hashed out. Maybe we, the players, could even get some info from doing our own testing.

khele23eb17_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.

Hope that helps!

I just love how clearly defined and intuitive all the game mechanics in ESO are...

demonlkojipub19_ESO

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.

Hope that helps!

I just love how clearly defined and intuitive all the game mechanics in ESO are...

Oh I can sense your sarcasm sir.

But, I don't feel or see every skill with a cast time being like this. I dont seem to see sorcs having some after-cast-time effect with crystal shard. When it seems they want to cast them back to back they cast them in succession quite quickly without any delay after the cast. Confirm?

guybrushtb16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.

Hope that helps!

Thanks Gina, it very much did! Though I do have to say that this being added to the already rather long list of undocumented quirky mechanics in the game may be a cause of concern for those who really want to dig into those matters.

Mechanically, I think I can see how it might actually work out though, since the longer window of opportunity might lend itself well to fully charged heavy attacks, which otherwise are too big a dps loss to actually be used unless you have to, at least in pve. In pvp, having your main means of attack all being channeled is an extremely serious disadvantage, so we probably won't see this being done much in copetitive environments.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.

Hope that helps!

I just love how clearly defined and intuitive all the game mechanics in ESO are...

Oh I can sense your sarcasm sir.

But, I don't feel or see every skill with a cast time being like this. I dont seem to see sorcs having some after-cast-time effect with crystal shard. When it seems they want to cast them back to back they cast them in succession quite quickly without any delay after the cast. Confirm?

There are some skills that don't even have a casttime and still have a delay, like the templar's charge and I believe vampire's bane as well but I'm not sure about it, but I definitely remember some skills from the templar line just getting similar delays for no apparent reason and despite being instant.

jackyd

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We can confirm that the cast time for Uppercut is 0.8 seconds; this is measured from the time you cast Uppercut to the time it hits your target. That said, there is a small cooldown that gets applied to a number of abilities with a cast time (such as this one). In this case, the cooldown is 0.4 seconds, which is why it appears like the cast time is 1.2 seconds.

Hope that helps!

I just love how clearly defined and intuitive all the game mechanics in ESO are...

Oh I can sense your sarcasm sir.

But, I don't feel or see every skill with a cast time being like this. I dont seem to see sorcs having some after-cast-time effect with crystal shard. When it seems they want to cast them back to back they cast them in succession quite quickly without any delay after the cast. Confirm?

Nope, Crystal Shards has a cast time of 1.2 secs, with a full animation time of something along the lines of 1.6s. If you have it morphed to Crystal fragments you have a 20% chance after casting a magicka consuming ability to have an instant cast Crystal Fragment, additionally Crystal Fragments cannot proc off itself.

A common technique in pvp is to spam instant abilities (Crushing Shock/Endless Fury) to have CF proc and it happens quite often that you get back to back procs which can result in a CF coming your way every second instead of every 1.6s if you were to cast'em back 2 back if the Sorc if lucky.

This again applies only to PvP as of right now the only viable caster DPS spec for a Sorc is LA+Crushing Shock spam ... terribly boring if ya ask me.
Slotting CF and casting it on proc instead of Shock actually results in worse DPS

Source: I've been playing a Sorc since beta WE 2

Edit: Anyways lets not dig deeper into the intricacies of casting CF back to back as I don't wanna derail the thread.

I myself am highly interested in the 2H changes as I've been playing a melee 2H/DW Sorc up until hitting trials and to this day still play 2H in PVP because it's just fricking FUN

thorspark

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.

Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.

They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.

jackyd

thorspark wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.

Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.

They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.

You don't need to count it out in your head, the Srendarr Add-On which display buffs/debuffs on self and enemy players also displays a castbar when you cast an ability with a cast time.

At 1st the bar fills up which equates to the cast time and afterwards it empties itself which equates to the rest of the animation time, simply hit bash when the bar start to empty.

This is not much different from castbar addons that were used in WOW in tandem with /SpellStopCasting macros to cancel spell casts to compensate for lag.

thorspark

jackyd wrote: »

You don't need to count it out in your head, the Srendarr Add-On which display buffs/debuffs on self and enemy players also displays a castbar when you cast an ability with a cast time.

At 1st the bar fills up which equates to the cast time and afterwards it empties itself which equates to the rest of the animation time, simply hit bash when the bar start to empty.

This is not much different from castbar addons that were used in WOW in tandem with /SpellStopCasting macros to cancel spell casts to compensate for lag.

I didn't know there was an Addon for that. Thanks for the info pal, I'll give it a try.

Hypertionb14_ESO

i have noticed that back to back casting ignores that cool down, on this ability and many others, Even on the live build..

the end result has always been that its faster overall to just repeatedly cast abilities with cast times.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

i have noticed that back to back casting ignores that cool down, on this ability and many others, Even on the live build..

the end result has always been that its faster overall to just repeatedly cast abilities with cast times.

Look at the video. Back to back casting certainly does nothing like that at all, and it doesn't work like what you describe for any other ability.

Erock25

thorspark wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.

Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.

They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.

If heavy is on lower priority, why is it a known technique to finish Flurry attacks with a heavy attack? It certainly seems to me that if I activate Flurry, and immediately hold left click for a heavy attack, that the 'recovery' animation of Flurry is replaced by the heavy attack itself.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

i have noticed that back to back casting ignores that cool down, on this ability and many others, Even on the live build..

the end result has always been that its faster overall to just repeatedly cast abilities with cast times.

Look at the video. Back to back casting certainly does nothing like that at all, and it doesn't work like what you describe for any other ability.

I think it does work. Crystal Frag especially seems to go rapid fire when just spammed over and over again.

Thejollygreenone

Erock25 wrote: »

thorspark wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.

Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.

They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.

If heavy is on lower priority, why is it a known technique to finish Flurry attacks with a heavy attack? It certainly seems to me that if I activate Flurry, and immediately hold left click for a heavy attack, that the 'recovery' animation of Flurry is replaced by the heavy attack itself.

He does have a point though, I had conflicting background knowledge and personal experience which led me to write a post making myself look like an idiot

But back on subject, you also have a point.

It does indeed seem that heavy attacks clip wrecking blows (and other cast/channeled abilities') animation time perfectly, but indeed that's not how the priority system is known to work.

You clip light attacks with abilities because abilities are higher on the priority system. One would go ahead and assume that heavy attacks behave in the same way.

But then your question still remains, why does it feel so different for heavy attacks when you actually go try it?

Erock25

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

thorspark wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.

Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.

They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.

If heavy is on lower priority, why is it a known technique to finish Flurry attacks with a heavy attack? It certainly seems to me that if I activate Flurry, and immediately hold left click for a heavy attack, that the 'recovery' animation of Flurry is replaced by the heavy attack itself.

He does have a point though, I had conflicting background knowledge and personal experience which led me to write a post making myself look like an idiot

But back on subject, you also have a point.

It does indeed seem that heavy attacks clip wrecking blows (and other cast/channeled abilities') animation time perfectly, but indeed that's not how the priority system is known to work.

You clip light attacks with abilities because abilities are higher on the priority system. One would go ahead and assume that heavy attacks behave in the same way.

But then your question still remains, why does it feel so different for heavy attacks when you actually go try it?

Yeah there certainly is something going on with the timing. I know for an anecdotal fact (lol) that clipping a heavy attack after Flurry absolutely cuts down on Flurry animation time. Hell, the final hit of Flurry and and the heavy attack almost hit at the same exact time. It is much tougher to tell with Uppercut though and I also can't tell if it is possible on PTS because without dmg number pop up add-ons, it is difficult to get the timing right.

Hypertionb14_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

thorspark wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Interesting, but that's not how rotations end up playing out (maybe sometimes in pvp). In this case, Uppercut would generally be followed by a Heavy Attack, which happens to be on a higher priority level.

Wrong. Heavy Attack is on a lower priority level, and that's the problem.
ATM, the only way to perform a 0.8s wrecking blow is to use it, block after 0.8s (block/bash is the only thing with a higher priority level) and then use your heavy attack.
I don't know if you manage to count 0.8s in your head, but I don't. So for most players, it will still be a 1.2s attack.

They need to match the animation to the cast time so you can charge your heavy attack just after the WB hits your target.

If heavy is on lower priority, why is it a known technique to finish Flurry attacks with a heavy attack? It certainly seems to me that if I activate Flurry, and immediately hold left click for a heavy attack, that the 'recovery' animation of Flurry is replaced by the heavy attack itself.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

i have noticed that back to back casting ignores that cool down, on this ability and many others, Even on the live build..

the end result has always been that its faster overall to just repeatedly cast abilities with cast times.

Look at the video. Back to back casting certainly does nothing like that at all, and it doesn't work like what you describe for any other ability.

I think it does work. Crystal Frag especially seems to go rapid fire when just spammed over and over again.

as does snipe, and Flare...

anything with a cast time is noticeably faster if you dont weave anything between casts and just spam. For Example, Crystal Shard has a animation where you weave the crystal togther, then there is a "throw" animation.. if you recast, you will skip half of the throw animation and go straight back to the weaving of the crystal.

its actually universal on all abilites, recasting the same is always slightly faster than doing another or weaving light attacks.. the reason we accept the slow down is because its minor enough that the extra damage results in more damage done per second overall.

on moves with cast times, that extra duration in the cast often is enough that the faster recast is more beneficial than weaving light attacks or that the end result is basically the same as if you were not weaving at all. this is why instant cast abilities like Crushing shock are more used than say Crystal Shard Spam... Shards do more damage than a Shock can do, but you can weave better with shock producing more damage in a second.