please give weapon 1 and weapon 2 their own individual swap keys

HeroOfNone

I know ZOS is working on making combat more responsive, however with a small dose of lag on either end I'm still seeing issues with double swapping or unresponsive swapping during combat.

To help combat this issue we need two commands added: choose weapon 1, choose weapon 2. These controls work the same as weapon swapping when a different weapon is selected, but will not swap when that weapon is active. This means when you hit or spam choose weapon 1 you will get that weapon when it's available to swap, despite any system lag or animation lag that makes you wait for a response.

This isn't a fix for the weapon swap lag, but hopefully will give a work around in the meantime.

Edit: Moved to Feedback & Suggestions

Aluluei

That would be brilliant! I can't count the number of times I've hit ` either accidentally or one too many times, and ended up casting something useless to the situation.

Shunravi

Yes pleaese!

Sord

/agree

curlyqloub14_ESO

Aluluei wrote: »

That would be brilliant! I can't count the number of times I've hit ` either accidentally or one too many times, and ended up casting something useless to the situation.

^^^

guybrushtb16_ESO

Please allow me a moment to shamelessly link to my own suggestion regarding the topic, which apparently nobody cared for, but there you have it anyway.

HeroOfNone

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Please allow me a moment to shamelessly link to my own suggestion regarding the topic, which apparently nobody cared for, but there you have it anyway.

You can still do both ideas, but I feel this would be a near term solution and potentially less abusable by bots, scripts, and macros looking for the instant feedback

Merlin13KAGL

Just make weapon swap responsive. Assign specific keys to the bars and I suspect macro use with go up, up, and away.

Swap now at least requires you to be aware of where you're starting from (assuming it processes correctly and responsively.)

HeroOfNone

Even with individual weapon choosing the swapping will still have a delay. Given that weapon switching is restricted in Lua code, I think you're assuming too much on folks being able to actually code a macro through lag properly. If we look how they could do it today it would be something like
"1", "2", "~", "DELAY .75 seconds", "Loop"
with the new keys you still to obey the rules of lag
"1", "2", "shift+1" DELAY .75 seconds", "1", "2", "shift+2", "DELAY .75 seconds", "loop"

No difference for a macro or bot user except theyes would have to program in the other. Even if they are coding something simple to eexcuse a command on one bar, they still need to obey the rules of lag. Assigning 2 new keys won't change that.

This change is more beneficial to human players that accidentally hit that swap button multiple times than any bot or macro that can accurately hit that button once and use either a delay or a screen trigger with a lot more accuracy.

Armitas

They really need to fix this swap lag. Was on my support bar trying to switch from bar 2 skill 4 purge to bar 1 skill 4 whip. All I did was ~ 4 purge, ~4 purge, ~4 purge, ~4 purge, rageeeeee, wait 2 seconds giving no command, ~ wait again for it to show then 4 whip.

Other times it's completely smooth and I can actually animation cancel through the hot swap. (visible part, not shortened)

khele23eb17_ESO

This would make anyone with macro-capable keyboard and mouse function as if they had 1 action bar with 10 skill slots and 2 ultimates.

guybrushtb16_ESO

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

This would make anyone with macro-capable keyboard and mouse function as if they had 1 action bar with 10 skill slots and 2 ultimates.

Oh, the horror.

HeroOfNone

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

This would make anyone with macro-capable keyboard and mouse function as if they had 1 action bar with 10 skill slots and 2 ultimates.

Please explain how this would be any different than those with a macro keyboard now and the current swap functionality. You're still subject to the same lag as regular weapon swapping, which many macro users would easily code around (see my prior reply today).

This help regular players a lot more with lag and double weapon swapping issue. The current system still favors macro users, screen-trigger, and low latency users a lot more

GreyPilgrim

As a lagger, I would really like this. One button for bar 1, one button for bar two. I can't count how many times I've lagged out and been banging the swap key, only to have it catch up and flip-flop right back to the bar I was on.

And, as far as issues with macro's, ya know, if Zos would just openly state what macro's are and aren't allowed to do and enforce it, this would be less of an issue. Since there are already macro's which allow you to switch yer ability load at the touch of a button, which theoretically already allows you to have more than two bars with just a little bit more lag time to load the macro, this is kind of already a non issue.

Merlin13KAGL

Armitas wrote: »

They really need to fix this swap lag. Was on my support bar trying to switch from bar 2 skill 4 purge to bar 1 skill 4 whip. All I did was ~ 4 purge, ~4 purge, ~4 purge, ~4 purge, rageeeeee, wait 2 seconds giving no command, ~ wait again for it to show then 4 whip.

Other times it's completely smooth and I can actually animation cancel through the hot swap. (visible part, not shortened)

@Armitas , ah yes...followed by the sound of "NO MAGICKA."

Or you're trying to heal, instead it's using Magelight like a crosswalk that's getting ready to turn.

Many a death (as a side effect) from this sort of thing.

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

This would make anyone with macro-capable keyboard and mouse function as if they had 1 action bar with 10 skill slots and 2 ultimates.

Please explain how this would be any different than those with a macro keyboard now and the current swap functionality. You're still subject to the same lag as regular weapon swapping, which many macro users would easily code around (see my prior reply today).

This help regular players a lot more with lag and double weapon swapping issue. The current system still favors macro users, screen-trigger, and low latency users a lot more

@heroofnoneb14_ESO‌ , two things about this:

The ultimate issue is not the keybind. The ultimate issue is the lag/nonresponse. Fix the nonresponse, fix the issue.

Changing the keybind to two nonresponsive abilities (considering weapon swap as an ability/action) vs one nonresponsive ability won't make you any less dead.

The second thing, while minor also involves the response of weapon swapping, more specifically, things that could interrupt it.

A macro capable keyboard still requires the starting point (you knowing which bar you're on now). Get stunned, interrupted, etc, and you may miss that switch (because of valid game mechanics).

With two separate buttons, the macro would never be wrong, it simply may not fire off a particular skill.

Set same macro to repeat and you're one step away from botting.

The difference is minor, but it's also notable.

Fix the lag/response/client-server-communication, then there is no more issue.

Armitas

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Or you're trying to heal, instead it's using Magelight like a crosswalk that's getting ready to turn.

ROFL

HeroOfNone

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@heroofnoneb14_ESO‌ , two things about this:

The ultimate issue is not the keybind. The ultimate issue is the lag/nonresponse. Fix the nonresponse, fix the issue.

Changing the keybind to two nonresponsive abilities (considering weapon swap as an ability/action) vs one nonresponsive ability won't make you any less dead.

The second thing, while minor also involves the response of weapon swapping, more specifically, things that could interrupt it.

A macro capable keyboard still requires the starting point (you knowing which bar you're on now). Get stunned, interrupted, etc, and you may miss that switch (because of valid game mechanics).

With two separate buttons, the macro would never be wrong, it simply may not fire off a particular skill.

Set same macro to repeat and you're one step away from botting.

The difference is minor, but it's also notable.

Fix the lag/response/client-server-communication, then there is no more issue.

I agree that the nonresponse needs to be fixed, however the issue is compounded by something that toggles back and forth so easily when you hit it in rapid succession.

The specter of a macro and then a bot being made is kind of laughable throughout discussion though. Most abilities you would use should be on your current active weapon. Using one, swapping, using another, swapping, is not efficient. Most times a series of commands would be made on one bar, switch, go to the other and run through those. Macros follow the same rules, and can easily be set to say "run through abilities 1-3" and the weapon swap is manual, timed, or managed by a screen trigger. Keeping weapon swapping on a single key is not acting as some mystical gate keeper to prevent this.

Also to correct something mentioned before, there have already been bots inside ESO and there are probably some still out there today. Most of the ones caught I believe were caught by statistics monitoring and by their hijacked clients spamming chat about the latest gold deals. Seeing how most MMO Bots are just QA software testing engines with more logic and looping commands and the need to still code around the lag, your not gaining much.

The MAJOR benefit is still to living players who are currently lagging, hit the weapon swap key more than once, and will swap 2 to infinity times more for which ever keystroke the client chooses to process.

Pmarsico9

I'm commander Shephard and this is my favorite suggestion on the boards.

Kronuxx

This is an AMAZING idea. Please ZOS, implement this!

Vizier

I thought I was going to read this and roast you on how useless it would be to have two buttons perform what one button does now, but I'm sold on the idea and the function for which you propose it. It would be a way to circumvent the lag double switch problem....simply brilliant.

indigoblades

My thoughts are Zos needs to EITHER:

1) give weapon swap priority over EVERYTHING. This should include running and blocking and CC. It has been improved but It is still too unpredictable in combat.

Also swap commands shouldn't stack unpredictably (which i have no clue the best way to fix, everything i think of to fix this is going to cases that are unpredictable. For example, with a 1/2 sec the time limit for the 2nd swap, we could find ourselves swapping to heal, then upon swapping back to our fighting bar the second swap never occurs do to limits on double swap )

2) Or Zos could allow addon devs to fix this by providing in the API choose bar 1 or bar 2.

3) Or if Zos doesnt believe providing this in the API is best then they need to provide themselves it in the game. Specifically they need to add 'Choose weapon 1' and 'Choose Weapon 2' to the assignable keyboard commands.

indigoblades

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

This would make anyone with macro-capable keyboard and mouse function as if they had 1 action bar with 10 skill slots and 2 ultimates.

I disagree because with lag, in order to get macros to work one would need such a huge delay. Manual animation canceling and weapon swapping would be much faster.

I have macro capable mouse and once tried an experiment with block, to animation cancel after certain spells. i cant remember exactly but i think i had 1/2 sec or 1/4 sec delay.... i found it worked part of the time but a significant amount of the time it didnt, so i removed it. I would assume any macro to swap weapons would fail half the time too and need huge delays.

Also as stated earlier any weapon swap to use a skill then swap back kills ur dps.

guybrushtb16_ESO

indigoblades wrote: »

My thoughts are Zos needs to EITHER:

1) give weapon swap priority over EVERYTHING. This should include running and blocking and CC. It has been improved but It is still too unpredictable in combat.

Also swap commands shouldn't stack unpredictably (which i have no clue the best way to fix, everything i think of to fix this is going to cases that are unpredictable. For example, with a 1/2 sec the time limit for the 2nd swap, we could find ourselves swapping to heal, then upon swapping back to our fighting bar the second swap never occurs do to limits on double swap )

2) Or Zos could allow addon devs to fix this by providing in the API choose bar 1 or bar 2.

3) Or if Zos doesnt believe providing this in the API is best then they need to provide themselves it in the game. Specifically they need to add 'Choose weapon 1' and 'Choose Weapon 2' to the assignable keyboard commands.

This is not something that can be completely fixed by assigning buttons. Weapon swapping has to be clientside do eliminate the delay as well. I really don't see why they didn't do it like that to begin with.

ZOS_ChipHilseberg

We've been evaluating improvements to the toggle functionality to make it more reliable, as well as testing keybinds to swap to specific sets. Improvements will likely be ready for the next big update.

HeroOfNone

ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote: »

We've been evaluating improvements to the toggle functionality to make it more reliable, as well as testing keybinds to swap to specific sets. Improvements will likely be ready for the next big update.

Yay, thanks for the update =3

eventide03b14a_ESO

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Just make weapon swap responsive. Assign specific keys to the bars and I suspect macro use with go up, up, and away.

Swap now at least requires you to be aware of where you're starting from (assuming it processes correctly and responsively.)

There is too much of a delay. It should be instant, but in practice it's not.

eventide03b14a_ESO

ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote: »

We've been evaluating improvements to the toggle functionality to make it more reliable, as well as testing keybinds to swap to specific sets. Improvements will likely be ready for the next big update.

I would love a native way to quickly load skills and weapons without the use of addons. Add armor to it would of course be a bonus but I would settle for just being about to change weapons and skills quickly (out of combat of course).

indigoblades

ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote: »

We've been evaluating improvements to the toggle functionality to make it more reliable, as well as testing keybinds to swap to specific sets. Improvements will likely be ready for the next big update.

That is great if its choose a weapon bar (set) and but i am not sure if 'swap to specific sets' means to a specific weapon bar or swapping to new skills on a bar. I hope we can optionally choose a weapon bar 1/2 explicitly (vs swap). The advantage of Adding an option to choose a weapon bar explicitly is that if i accidentally hit 'Choose Bar 1' twice or more in the heat of combat i know i will end up on bar 1 eventually, also i wont compound the problem by hitting swap repeatidly..... with swap one usually gets confused which bar they are on.

i am not advocating removing Swap weapon, some may prefer it. I am advocating adding the option to choose weapon 1 or weapon 2. Preferable ZOS would add this functionality in game. But the API could be updated so Addon developers could add this also.

If u mean ZOS supporting swapping skill sets on a weapon bar (or swapping gear sets equipped) this would be wonderful, but the level of effort of such a change is greater and that would fix a different problem. (The problem being we are reliant on adds ons to switch gear/skills)

nun_nonrb19_ESO

I'd like to see two keybinds for the weapons too. Since an add-on can't be made to have this functionality the ball is on Zos park. I'm sure this will not be that hard to implement and will be very useful to those that find it hard to time correctly weapon swapping with the configuration we have right now.

Francescolg

I want a THIRD skill bar or a "normal" one (1-10)!

Erock25

The OP probably only wants this so he can macro better.