Tested the solo only quest-lines with a new vr12 character

leeux

Heyas PTSers

Just thought about trying my hand at testing something that worried me when I saw the patch notes: the scaling of instances for solo quest.

So, I created a new character using the VR12 template and started the MQ, the FG and the MG doing one at a time.

The char I created is a sorcerer (the class on which I'm less experienced), and I equipped her with the stereotypical light armor and staves.

I went ahead following the quest lines, and I found that even when the enemies were scaled to VR12, the fight weren't difficult at all (in fact, I didn't die at all, not once.)

Of course, I couldn't finish all the quests in a single session, but I advanced several steps from each:

** For the MQ did all up until the whole Castle of the Worm and the fight with the fire-y skeletons (which I always hated!)
This includes the fight with the worm cult dude (don't recall the name...) under the lighthouse (AD), and the fight with the simil-Gargoyle guardian in coldharbour.

** For the FG did all up until the dwarven ruin in which you have to fight a Centurion, which includes the fight with Doshia prior to that quest.

** For the MG did the fight with Gutsripper and not much else yet.

I've been recording all the session (almost 5 hs!) and I'll probably will upload at some point if I find something interesting to report.

I also was paying attention to the dialogue (I didn't skipped anything, that's why I couldn't advance more), to look for lip-sync errors and all that. I haven't found any error yet...

I have no experience whatsoever with melee weapons or stamina builds, but if I can manage to finish this test to the end I'll try to give it another try with a new character, and this time use a Templar or NB with a stamina build, just for comparison.

Ideas, requests, questions, and discussion, as always are very welcome

Cheers!

Ysne58

Awesome job.

leeux

I forgot to mention that all quest rewards for the quests I completed scaled up to VR12.

((And @Ysne58: Thanks!))

spoqster

I wish they would remove monster levels from the game all together. A troll should have the same stats wherever and whenever you encounter the troll. And if the troll is stronger it should be a special troll.

Syntse

Good to hear the experiences... do Manni and Molly too. Seems you are experienced gamer so the content even on your lvl is fairly easy... how about people that have issues on content on their lvl and think maybe they can try again after couple of levels.

leeux

@Syntse:

Yeah... agreed. Not about the experienced, though I'm just a normal/casual player, and not much more than that!

But that's my worry too. Sadly, I don't know how to test that.

It would be more realistic to try this test with, say, a ~L45 up to VR1 char than with a VR12, since at least that level is the one you can reliable get even while not doing the guilds/main quests. Sadly, the templates just creates higher leveled chars (AFAIK) and mine are either too low, or they already did the quests available at their levels.

Also, w.r.t the challenge of the fights: I have to confess that I more worried by the forced solo instances I had to fight for the alliance's quest line, than the others.

I intend to try to reach at least the ones in Auridon, but have to quest a fair bit before reaching to that stage in the AD questline first.

As an example of that, that I remember now, is the fight with three leaders of the Veiled Heritance in Auridon as being very challenging for me (for my live char at L10~12), or the fight with the Dark Mane in Reaper's March at about ~L47 (he perma-stunned me and killed me in three shots when I was not prepared for it!)

So, for now, all in all I cannot reliably say that the fights are truly not challenging, just that they're doable by someone that at least uses the tools that the class offers, and has a decent setup for their char, and some good equipment to support it (in mind, is a good average for a VR12 char.)

And yes!: I'll try to get to Manni today during this afternoon! Maybe I can get to Molly tomorrow! (I want to play the live game too!)

Cheers!
Leandro.

Enodoc

leeux wrote: »

Also, w.r.t the challenge of the fights: I have to confess that I more worried by the forced solo instances I had to fight for the alliance's quest line, than the others.

I intend to try to reach at least the ones in Auridon, but have to quest a fair bit before reaching to that stage in the AD questline first.

As an example of that, that I remember now, is the fight with three leaders of the Veiled Heritance in Auridon as being very challenging for me (for my live char at L10~12), or the fight with the Dark Mane in Reaper's March at about ~L47 (he perma-stunned me and killed me in three shots when I was not prepared for it!)

Now this is something that has confused me for absolutely ages.
According to the PTS patch notes, these are all the solo instances:

• Main Quest
• Fighters Guild
• Mages Guild
• Stirk
• Werewolf Quest
• Vampire Quest
• Thizzrini Arena
• Orrery of Elden Root
• Cathedral of the Golden Path in Southpoint

Now this doesn't include a number of things that seem to be solo; for AD, the Veiled Heritance leaders and the Dark Mane; for DC, Angof, Uwafa, Septima and some of the other end-of-quest-chain bosses.

So does that mean that they are actually not solo? If you are in a group, do all group members fight in the same boss instance? Myself and a random both entered Angof's at the same, and we had been doing the preceding quest dungeon together-ish, and were not in the same boss instance; would we have been so if we had been grouped?

Syntse

Yes some quests even though they seem solo you are able to enter with group... eg the veiled heritance island in Auridon and Queen ritual where you go into the ruins to kill the one dude.

leeux

Enodoc wrote: »

Now this is something that has confused me for absolutely ages.
According to the PTS patch notes, these are all the solo instances:

• Main Quest
• Fighters Guild
• Mages Guild
• Stirk
• Werewolf Quest
• Vampire Quest
• Thizzrini Arena
• Orrery of Elden Root
• Cathedral of the Golden Path in Southpoint

Now this doesn't include a number of things that seem to be solo; for AD, the Veiled Heritance leaders and the Dark Mane; for DC, Angof, Uwafa, Septima and some of the other end-of-quest-chain bosses.

So does that mean that they are actually not solo? If you are in a group, do all group members fight in the same boss instance? Myself and a random both entered Angof's at the same, and we had been doing the preceding quest dungeon together-ish, and were not in the same boss instance; would we have been so if we had been grouped?

Very good point, and thanks for posting that list! I had seen it, but I didn't remember to look at it before starting the the test. You saved me some time there! Thanks again

Yeah... the "Cathedral of the Golden Path in Southpoint" is the one that I had in mind when thinking about difficult solo fight for alliance questlines.
I remembered that one as a sore point, because I was playing it with a friend at that time, and we got forcefully separated when we entered the cathedral.

Another one is the fight with Prince Neamon in the Elden Root Orrery... that was another tough one

I'd like to try to test those... But I don't know if I'll have time this weekend to reach those stages. I'll probably concentrate on the MQ and guilds first.

BTW, Doshia's Fight video is up, in case anyone want to check it:

http://youtu.be/qR3K9Y3oepo

Mountain_Dewed

When I fought Doshia the second time I was stunned at how easy^ it was. My first toon still picks on him about it.

leeux

Yeah Agreed... It is a bit underwhelming fight compared to the first time I did it with my ex-main guy

I'm just testing these fights mainly to see if the scaling up algorithm keeps the fights reasonable/doable/comparable to the current state on live. If the fight is already underwhelming on live, it's reasonable that it'll still be that way even after scaling it up...)

Also, keep in mind that the char in the video has over-average equipment! (Aether Mage set and weapons), since those are the ones bundled with the test templates and I hadn't any other weapon/equipment to use readily available (at least, I haven't found a way to get other equipment yet, except crafting it myself.)

EDIT: typo

Enodoc

Syntse wrote: »

Yes some quests even though they seem solo you are able to enter with group... eg the veiled heritance island in Auridon and Queen ritual where you go into the ruins to kill the one dude.

Great, thanks. That means that everything which is not on that list could theoretically be done with a group.
And if a group member has already completed the quest, they should be able to be phased into the leader's layer so they can help out; eg, in cities where the enemies are removed if you've completed the quest, travel to the group leader and you're back in a version with enemies until they complete the quest as well. Does that happen yet, or are ZOS still working on that?

leeux

The quest reward for the last quest before Stirk meeting is not scaled up as the others.

The item is "The Band of Companions" and it's still a level 50 ring.



I've reported in-game as /bug: ticket #141018-001244

Holycannoli

leeux wrote: »

I forgot to mention that all quest rewards for the quests I completed scaled up to VR12.

((And @Ysne58: Thanks!))

So you're saying you can get a level 50 Signet of the Worm from the level 20 main quest if you wait till level 50 before doing it? Or get VR12 mage/fighter guild rewards if you wait till then to do the quests, like a VR12 Amulet of Eyevea?

I can't be the only one who sees how ridiculous this is?

Holycannoli

nm

leeux

@Holycannoli:

Yeah, it seems that it works that way, as it is currently on the PTS at least.
It may be an unintended change, for all we know.

Also, I don't know how much better they are relatively speaking with their old versions, as I don't remember the stats of the original ones.

In the picture above there's three of them, if anyone has a picture of the current ones, please, feel free to share it for comparison sake.

Dagoth_Rac

I am not sure how big a deal the scaled-up quest rewards are. They have nice stats, but blue items with nice stats drop frequently in endgame. And the quest reward items have no set bonuses*, so they will never be part of a min/max gear setup. And you cannot repeat the quests as an easy way to load up on great items.

They are nicer gear than you will get from any other solo VR content, but definitely not on par with group VR content items.

*(I think Fighter/Mages Guild give set bonus rewards now, which they did not when I completed them, but they are crafted set items so nothing unique or special)

Ohioastro

At the high end the set bonuses on gear are crucial, and the quest items would actually be less useful than they're likely to be at mid-level when originally encountered. Letting them scale up is fine.

leeux

The end fight of the Castle of the Worm is up:

((The real fighting starts at the @2:30 mark))
http://youtu.be/wZDjbw-aMzo

As you'll see I screwed up several things in that fight

I already fought Mannimarco too today, and the fight doesn't seem more difficult than at level, in fact it seemed a bit easier to me (those skeletons killed me like 12 times at level )

I'll leave uploading that video when I go to sleep today, and I'll post it tomorrow when I wake up (after a good coffee )

Syntse

Enodoc wrote: »

And if a group member has already completed the quest, they should be able to be phased into the leader's layer so they can help out; eg, in cities where the enemies are removed if you've completed the quest, travel to the group leader and you're back in a version with enemies until they complete the quest as well. Does that happen yet, or are ZOS still working on that?

Don't think the phasing to group leader in quests has been implemented yet and they are still working on it.

leeux

Here's the fight with Mannimarco:

http://youtu.be/_SXxZ6QBXio

I've been noticing that the fights grow harder as I progressed on the quest-lines, and that feels about right.

I don't think any of the fights I did were more difficult than the original ones, even when I was over-leveled for them. I think they got the scaling quite right.

I already finished both guilds quest-lines, and I died quite a few times during the those. Mostly due to my own screwups, but also helped by some heavy hitting abilities in some of the last fights.

Let's see,
1. I died to the Redguard ancestors in the fight inside the tombs (this was the first death, I'll upload all the videos tonight)
2. Also died to the Auroran Battlemage on the Dwemer ruin (Ragnthar) you fight just before the last quest (she hits at 1900 damage, and if you don't move -> you're toast :P)
3. Died one more time in the last fight during the Will of the Council quest, before the final confrontation, due to being swarmed by enemies.
4. And came closer to die several times during fights more 3 enemies (specially if they were archers)

Sadly, I wont be able to reach the final fight with Molag Bal during this weekend.

I've already reached Coldharbour, but to be able to move forward from there I need to do at least 4 quests before I'll be able to launch the final assault, and I'm out of free time for this weekend.

If, when next weekend comes the characters weren't wiped yet, then I'll try to continue from where I left.

Cheers all,
Leandro

Nestor

leeux wrote: »

BTW, Doshia's Fight video is up, in case anyone want to check it:

I had one character that had not done the FG quests until L48/L50. When I fought Doshia, she did not even turn into a Harvester, but died as Human in one shot. However, that was what I expected going in 40 Levels higher than the quest.

It did not bother me as I had already taken two other toons through the quest line at more appropriate levels, I was just trying to clear my quest Journal. I wanted that content over as quickly as possible.

leeux

@Nestor:

Agreed, Doshia's a bit of a pushover now. The first time I fought her on my ex-main DK, I had to return back like three times after leveling up more

I went to fight her at L9 with a Sword/Shield spec: no luck. Went back at L12, no luck again. Had to wait up until L14 after having leveled Destro staff a bit, just to kill the orbs from distance.

Same with Gutsripper... I almost feel sorry for him now

Luckily subsequent fights in the quest line gets a bit more interesting.

EDIT: My DK is EX-main

leeux

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to post the videos where I died

Here they are.

Ragnthar - Auroran Battlemage (Fighters Guild)
http://youtu.be/GZ_w4ewf_dY

Valley of Blades Tomb (Main Quest)
http://youtu.be/B8QU80d1Z8s

Will of the Council (Fighters Guild)
http://youtu.be/R8lkDL1tSTk

Sadly, last weekend I couldn't get back on the PTS for testing of the last leg of the main quest.
I advanced a bit the quests in Coldharbor during this week and I'm up until the point where I'm ready to rescue the Ayleid King (last thing before the Chasm opens.)

Hopefully this weekend I can finish the test, but I think all this it's already a moot point since they announced the release the patch as is next week.

Best regards,
Leandro.

leeux

Finally, here are the last two videos showing the final leg of the main quest.

**** SPOILERS **** Don't watch if you don't want to be spoiled on the end of the main quest!! I have warned you!

The Way up to Molag Bal
http://youtu.be/NH42frdLE-k


End Fight with Molag Bal
http://youtu.be/JidsZOUZpL0

Best regards,
Leandro

Ysne58

Thanks again for doing all this work.

leeux

@Ysne58‌ : You're welcome!

Strangely, I really enjoyed playing the quests again

And the added new facial animations meant it was a new experience too

Rydik

So if rewards for FG scalling now, so can i have v14 crystal sword for final FG quest?

leeux

You mean the Prismatic Weapon? Yeah, it seems that way... At least, the one I got was VR12, scaled to my level.


EDIT:

And the last reward, the Emperor healing staff, was also scaled to VR12 for me.

Rydik

Wonderfull!!!