Classes...What are they for really?
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Mricci1988✭✭As I understand, they meant the classes not to be significant in the gameplay and to improve this idea, they are going to make spellcraft system, that will make class less important, and only count as a skill tree not interfering in the actual role of the character. That's my view of it.
Here is the problem with Spellcrafting system.
1.) It makes new players choosing their first characters not really care about the class
2.) It due to balance issues it cannot be an apple to apple solution...More like a Red Apple to Green Apple comparision.
Humor me this...my main class is Nightblade right now - signature of NB is the ability to use a class spell to go invisible (Shadow Cloak & it's morphs).
Other classes can use potions that have a limited time before it expires.
Spellcrafting would be similar I assume...So I could create a stealth invisibility spell Yes 100%...but will it be as effective as the classes version?
The answer most likely is no.
Example:
Sorc class uses new spellcrafting mechanic to make an invis spell...is successful.
NB class use on Cloak is 2.5 seconds (do not count morphs yet and secondary effects etc.)
The Sorc to remain balance may only have 1.5 seconds of invisibility...or 1 second that way YES the Sorc can stealth....but not as good as class.
Making class choice more important for general game play.
This is an opinion - not factual - I am making 100% assumptions on all data and numbers above - please feel free to input / correct me if you feel I am wrong.
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Mricci1988✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Class abilities provide players choices to play the way they want. If they don't use class abilities, that's fine, class doesn't exist for their characters. If they want to use class abilities they have some choices.
In my opinion if you count on class abilities a lot:
DK = melee only, dps or tank or whatever.
Templar = mostly heal, buff and debuff.
NB = Invisibility and high burst damage.
Sorcerer = range dps, summon, crowd control, just no melee.
Sorc no melee you say....
Please....
My god...I think I just orgasmed...literally.
Your sorc looks BEAST!
See its stuff like that that makes me reroll every 20 levels because I think OMG this idea would be so awesome (Lightning Tornado, Melee Sorc or something like a Blood Mage NB etc.)
Its altahoclicism2 -
Chuggernaut✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Without classes everyone would play the exact same FOTM build.
Not everyone chases FOTM. Without classes I would be playing the exact same characters as I have now.
As for the original question about what are classes. At their core they are simply a collection of 3 skill lines.
Yeah they are just a set of 3 skills that cannot be gained at any other point in the game. When spellcraft goes live, they will be mostly pointless imho.My comrades have returned. I erect the spine of gratitude. You are a hero today. - Bura-Natoo1 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
Nice build lol. Except that you're way above the hard cap for weapon damage, which is around 260 i think.ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Class abilities provide players choices to play the way they want. If they don't use class abilities, that's fine, class doesn't exist for their characters. If they want to use class abilities they have some choices.
In my opinion if you count on class abilities a lot:
DK = melee only, dps or tank or whatever.
Templar = mostly heal, buff and debuff.
NB = Invisibility and high burst damage.
Sorcerer = range dps, summon, crowd control, just no melee.
Sorc no melee you say....
Please....1 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Classes exist so PvPers can whine
“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy1 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭
Nice build lol. Except that you're way above the hard cap for weapon damage, which is around 260 i think.ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Class abilities provide players choices to play the way they want. If they don't use class abilities, that's fine, class doesn't exist for their characters. If they want to use class abilities they have some choices.
In my opinion if you count on class abilities a lot:
DK = melee only, dps or tank or whatever.
Templar = mostly heal, buff and debuff.
NB = Invisibility and high burst damage.
Sorcerer = range dps, summon, crowd control, just no melee.
Sorc no melee you say....
Please....
The soft cap you mean. There is no hardcap, I hit like a freight train.especially with flawless dawnbreaker.
Tip on making phys builds compete with magic a builds...stack weapon damage I can pull 1.4k sustained on boss fights and 450dps just using heavy/light attacks. And in 1.5 when two hand gets its huge buff I can't wait to smash some light armor cookie cutters. My point is ...you CAN play how you want. Theory craft.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War0 -
Sleep✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Class abilities provide players choices to play the way they want. If they don't use class abilities, that's fine, class doesn't exist for their characters. If they want to use class abilities they have some choices.
In my opinion if you count on class abilities a lot:
DK = melee only, dps or tank or whatever.
Templar = mostly heal, buff and debuff.
NB = Invisibility and high burst damage.
Sorcerer = range dps, summon, crowd control, just no melee.
Sorc no melee you say....
Please....
I meant class abilities. Of course you can use any kind of weapons you want. I have a bow and a sword and a shield not like those typical staff wielding sorcerers. But Sorcerer's class abilities are not meant for melee though you can still gain some benefits for melee.0 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »
Sorc no melee you say....
Yay, I would totally love to redo my sorc to a stamina build now. Then again, as an altmer, all his racials would be completely useless then, meaning he'd fall behind substantially compared to stam races. -_-1 -
Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Class abilities provide players choices to play the way they want. If they don't use class abilities, that's fine, class doesn't exist for their characters. If they want to use class abilities they have some choices.
In my opinion if you count on class abilities a lot:
DK = melee only, dps or tank or whatever.
Templar = mostly heal, buff and debuff.
NB = Invisibility and high burst damage.
Sorcerer = range dps, summon, crowd control, just no melee.
Sorc no melee you say....
Please....
I meant class abilities. Of course you can use any kind of weapons you want. I have a bow and a sword and a shield not like those typical staff wielding sorcerers. But Sorcerer's class abilities are not meant for melee though you can still gain some benefits for melee.
The Storm calling line of the Socerler class has plenty of moves that augment melee skills and Dps. That specific skill works exceptionally well for melee players plus I have fought plenty npc character sthat use moves and skills similar to that skill line and since many of the skills say melee in their tooltip I believe that skill is made for melee users in mind.
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ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Class abilities provide players choices to play the way they want. If they don't use class abilities, that's fine, class doesn't exist for their characters. If they want to use class abilities they have some choices.
In my opinion if you count on class abilities a lot:
DK = melee only, dps or tank or whatever.
Templar = mostly heal, buff and debuff.
NB = Invisibility and high burst damage.
Sorcerer = range dps, summon, crowd control, just no melee.
Sorc no melee you say....
Please....
I meant class abilities. Of course you can use any kind of weapons you want. I have a bow and a sword and a shield not like those typical staff wielding sorcerers. But Sorcerer's class abilities are not meant for melee though you can still gain some benefits for melee.
Boundless Storm - more moability and insane armor/resists AOE procs lightning status ailment
Crit surg - with crit potion pretty much instant heals
Streak - paired with charge to stun lock people and the added benefit of best mobility in the game
Passive that reduce magic and stamina cost
I beg to differ.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War0 -
yeah my sorc is DW/Bow Build. as i stated, sorc spells meld well with any weapon type.0 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Class abilities provide players choices to play the way they want. If they don't use class abilities, that's fine, class doesn't exist for their characters. If they want to use class abilities they have some choices.
In my opinion if you count on class abilities a lot:
DK = melee only, dps or tank or whatever.
Templar = mostly heal, buff and debuff.
NB = Invisibility and high burst damage.
Sorcerer = range dps, summon, crowd control, just no melee.
Sorc no melee you say....
Please....
Damn, how did you get those stats?www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO42 -
Sleep✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Class abilities provide players choices to play the way they want. If they don't use class abilities, that's fine, class doesn't exist for their characters. If they want to use class abilities they have some choices.
In my opinion if you count on class abilities a lot:
DK = melee only, dps or tank or whatever.
Templar = mostly heal, buff and debuff.
NB = Invisibility and high burst damage.
Sorcerer = range dps, summon, crowd control, just no melee.
Sorc no melee you say....
Please....
I meant class abilities. Of course you can use any kind of weapons you want. I have a bow and a sword and a shield not like those typical staff wielding sorcerers. But Sorcerer's class abilities are not meant for melee though you can still gain some benefits for melee.
Boundless Storm - more moability and insane armor/resists AOE procs lightning status ailment
Crit surg - with crit potion pretty much instant heals
Streak - paired with charge to stun lock people and the added benefit of best mobility in the game
Passive that reduce magic and stamina cost
I beg to differ.
As I said, play the way you want. The game doesn't said that sorcerers are range only and DKs are melee only. Those skills are what your class offers you. You can use them for tons of different builds, melee or range, or whatever, it's your choice. Sorcerer skills don't mean for melee though you can still gain benefits from melee. But if you want to be a pure sorcerer that counts on class abilities only, sword wielding is not a good choice though you can still play it if you like it. That sorcerer doesn't count on his class only. It's a stamina build that counts on light/heavy attacks and weapon abilities combines with class abilities.0 -
mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »Classes are a resource to your character - passives, and active abilities that supplement one's own build decisions. As a nightblade tank, veil, shade, siphoning attacks and several passives (restoring darkness, fortitude, magicka flood) Supplement my decision to be a tank.
By choosing a dk over a nightblade for a tank I directly forfeit the permanent 40% stamina recovery a large passive magicka boost, a significant (6%) boost to HP a targeted 15% damage shred and veil of blades in favor of talons, green dragons blood and the dragon knights equivalent passives.
Long story short, just like race - Class is all about opportunity cost and flavour - and am a firm believer that every class can fulfil every role at a 'close to optimal' level.
For instance, with healing - all 3 non - templar classes have EXTREMELY strong potential synergy with a healing staff. Sorcs with strong magicka regen and surge to overcharge weapon damage can dish out insanely strong resto staff heals (including 700+ health critical heals on the entire group with blessing of restoration) DKs with igneous shield and molten armaments bolster group damage whilst pushing out similarly powerful heals with a staff. Nightblades get a massively powerful healing ultimate that is instant cast and can thus stack with other heals, have means to boost weapon damage insanely high, get free + magicka and have a quite strong supplementary heal.
(PS hitting yourself and 3 other members with a 700 health heal using blessing of restoration does more than hitting 1 member with a 1.2k heal and 2 with a 600 damage heal with breath of life, and costs less, thus with good group coordination and positioning, blessing of restoration is optimal over bol)
TLDR: Classes are opportunity cost and flavour.
This is probably the best way of looking at it. Most people are not really min maxers, so your class is pretty much your flavour. Your role is pretty much determined by your weapon.
There are a few solid distinctions though.
Only a Sorcerer is a pet class.
Only a Templar can heal effectively without a resto staff.
Not really sure of the unique selling points of DK or NB, I have a VR 6 NB and can't think of anything, maybe stealth attack, but the others can do that, so it's not unique.
Guess Sorc or Temp give you the best options then.
selling point on Nighblades: resource management and veil.
selling point on DKS: resource management and control.0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »Classes are a resource to your character - passives, and active abilities that supplement one's own build decisions. As a nightblade tank, veil, shade, siphoning attacks and several passives (restoring darkness, fortitude, magicka flood) Supplement my decision to be a tank.
By choosing a dk over a nightblade for a tank I directly forfeit the permanent 40% stamina recovery a large passive magicka boost, a significant (6%) boost to HP a targeted 15% damage shred and veil of blades in favor of talons, green dragons blood and the dragon knights equivalent passives.
Long story short, just like race - Class is all about opportunity cost and flavour - and am a firm believer that every class can fulfil every role at a 'close to optimal' level.
For instance, with healing - all 3 non - templar classes have EXTREMELY strong potential synergy with a healing staff. Sorcs with strong magicka regen and surge to overcharge weapon damage can dish out insanely strong resto staff heals (including 700+ health critical heals on the entire group with blessing of restoration) DKs with igneous shield and molten armaments bolster group damage whilst pushing out similarly powerful heals with a staff. Nightblades get a massively powerful healing ultimate that is instant cast and can thus stack with other heals, have means to boost weapon damage insanely high, get free + magicka and have a quite strong supplementary heal.
(PS hitting yourself and 3 other members with a 700 health heal using blessing of restoration does more than hitting 1 member with a 1.2k heal and 2 with a 600 damage heal with breath of life, and costs less, thus with good group coordination and positioning, blessing of restoration is optimal over bol)
TLDR: Classes are opportunity cost and flavour.
This is probably the best way of looking at it. Most people are not really min maxers, so your class is pretty much your flavour. Your role is pretty much determined by your weapon.
There are a few solid distinctions though.
Only a Sorcerer is a pet class.
Only a Templar can heal effectively without a resto staff.
Not really sure of the unique selling points of DK or NB, I have a VR 6 NB and can't think of anything, maybe stealth attack, but the others can do that, so it's not unique.
Guess Sorc or Temp give you the best options then.
selling point on Nighblades: resource management and veil.
selling point on DKS: resource management and control.
That doesn't really work though, as they are not unique to that class, since both have the same resource management and Solar disturbance does the same as Veil.0