Guild Summit - Champion System

James-Wayne

So I've been thoroughly reading all the guild pages who attended this event to get as much information as I can but there is one question I would really love to know that I can't seem to find out if it was asked or not.

@ZOS_PaulSage‌ mentioned that they currently have a system in the background running to monitor the amount of XP we gain so that once the champion system is out it will apply points based on previous time put in. Great system by the way, to ensure that's its counted for the many hours right now is very clever work, totally appreciate that BUT...

...what I would like to know is the players that grind all day every day as opposed to actually questing, dungeons, trials, arena etc do these people also get their XP recorded?? Personally I don't care if they don't because I prefer to play the game but I understand the grouping system isn't good and grinding is usually the only thing being offered in groups but anyone able to clarify this question would be great!


If your unaware of what Paul Sage discussed please reads this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9003/Elder-Scrolls-Online-The-Champion-System-An-Entirely-New-Game-Design.html

Any other questions people had? I think this is a great step in the right direction thou!

Nazon_Katts

VP->XP->CP that's the conversion. No matter how, where or on which character you gained the XP, it'll translate into CP. So if you want the maximum, get grinding.

david271749

I know they said champ points will take an hour to earn on average. I wish they would just stop with the whole xp system honestly. I think time in game would be much much better. One point per hour logged in would be great. There would be absolutely no reason for grind, people who like to take their time playing their way wouldn't feel left out. Players might be more inclined to run botting programs, but they'll get reported just like all the gold farmers from release.

Leijona

david271749 wrote: »

I think time in game would be much much better. One point per hour logged in would be great. There would be absolutely no reason for grind, people who like to take their time playing their way wouldn't feel left out.

I couldn't disagree more. Grinders would get their points faster, but couldn't utilize their Enlightend bonus useful with the planed way. And players, that can't spend so much time in game can still catch up due to the Enlightend bonus. This would change with your suggestion. And it would change in a way, that disadvantages casual players badly.

david271749

@Leijona

Sorry. What is the enlightened bonus?

Leijona

The Enlightend bonus is a bonus, that gives you more experience points, which are needed for champion points, with every 50+ character.

The bonus is only used by 50+ characters, not your alts, and only if you gain experience. So you don't use it, while for example standing around in town, making RP or enjoying the landscape.

All characters you have can increase the pool of Enlightend bonus, but only up to a certain amount. And unlike champion points you have the pool for all your characters and as soon as you emptied it with one character, it is empty for all your characters.

So grinders will empty the pool faster and players that gain experience slower can use it for a longer time.

I hope, my explanation was understandable.

david271749

So grinders have an advantage, because they can use 7 character slots to max out their main?

Nazon_Katts

Typically, bonus xp doesn't add up indefinitely and is used up rather fast. Considering the huge amounts of VP/XP one can grind in this game, I'm certain any rested bonus can be safely ignored.

Basing the CS progression on just XP is a mistake in my book. It strongly incentivizes grinding and by-passing content. I don't mind the option to grind out a few points, but it shouldn't be the only one.

We're earning APs (achievement/alliance), so why not tie them into CS? We're all paying our subs, so why not tie account time into CS? If you want people playing your game, you should reward them for doing so and not just only for skipping content altogether.

Leijona

It seems, I wasn't able to explain it to you. And I don't understand, why you think grinders would have an advantage. In what way do you think they can use their alts to max out their main?

adean27

To expand on what Leijona was saying. Enlightenment is the equivalent of Rested Bonus from other games, so for instance:

Character 1 is a VR 2 character, you have not played him in some time, but when you log back in he has for example, 500,000 enlightenment bonus. So with this character, if you were to play him, you would gain XP at a much faster rate until you reached that 500,000 XP cap bonus, then you would go back to earning XP at a regular rate. The Enlightenment on Character 1 cannot be used on Character 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8, and vice versa.

It's a way to ensure that your VR characters do not fall behind if you decided to focus on another character for a while.

As for XP tracking, yes all XP or XP variations are tracked as XP.

AP is the obvious exception as it is insanely easy to gain, and to allow that conversation in addition to the XP you can gain in Cyrodiil, and yes I understand it is low XP, would put PVP players at a serious advantage. Now there was some discussion of tweaking the XP system in Cyrodiil to make it a more viable leveling experience, but that was just a random idea that was thrown out there in a discussion about Cyrodiil options.

As for the tracking system and conversion, it's based on your overall account XP. So if you have 5 characters and they have 14,000,000 XP, or 1 character with the same amount of XP, you would get the same amount of Champion Points.

Hopefully this explains it a little better,

Thank you,

Andrew

Leijona

Thanks Shindig Sounds so much more logical with your explanation than with mine ^^

Nazon_Katts

All and any XP gained on all your characters counts towards your CP, which you could use on just one character. Until you hit the till now undisclosed cap, tho they hinted at that being rather high. It further deincentivizes playing content and promotes grinding.

While, personally, I don't mind the grind that much anymore and sort of embraced it again, I do find this a rather interesting design choice for such a content heavy game.

david271749

I guess it depends on the max size of this xp pool. You said this enlightenment bonus is based on xp earned after 50. It's not hard to grind 7 characters up to that point. If xp requirement for cp increases after each cp earned wouldn't a player be able to grind 7 characters to max out their main? Also, what if a player has done everyting they can do for worthy xp on their main? What's left to do but grind for the fastest xp?

david271749

adean27 wrote: »

To expand on what Leijona was saying. Enlightenment is the equivalent of Rested Bonus from other games, so for instance:

Character 1 is a VR 2 character, you have not played him in some time, but when you log back in he has for example, 500,000 enlightenment bonus. So with this character, if you were to play him, you would gain XP at a much faster rate until you reached that 500,000 XP cap bonus, then you would go back to earning XP at a regular rate. The Enlightenment on Character 1 cannot be used on Character 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8, and vice versa.

It's a way to ensure that your VR characters do not fall behind if you decided to focus on another character for a while.

As for XP tracking, yes all XP or XP variations are tracked as XP.

AP is the obvious exception as it is insanely easy to gain, and to allow that conversation in addition to the XP you can gain in Cyrodiil, and yes I understand it is low XP, would put PVP players at a serious advantage. Now there was some discussion of tweaking the XP system in Cyrodiil to make it a more viable leveling experience, but that was just a random idea that was thrown out there in a discussion about Cyrodiil options.

As for the tracking system and conversion, it's based on your overall account XP. So if you have 5 characters and they have 14,000,000 XP, or 1 character with the same amount of XP, you would get the same amount of Champion Points.

Hopefully this explains it a little better,

Thank you,

Andrew

This makes a little more sense. Thanks.

adean27

@david271749 I think what you're getting at, is could you essentially level 8 characters to VR 1 and then let 7 of those characters sit and then log into them later and get a faster XP rate?

The answer to that is yes. You could do that. Now it's not an overnight system, so it won't be as simple as logging out for 24 hours then you have an Enlightened pool to gather from. It will be a slower incremental system.

Does this benefit grinders? I don't really think anything benefits grinders, they might reach the CP cap earlier than others, but they would do that anyway. I think the benefits to this are more so to your casual style player, or your role-playing crowd. People that reach those levels, but then go off and try something else, or cannot log in for a few days. It will help to keep the gap between those people and the hardcore crowd a little less. I understand that the hardcore grinders will still have a huge gap margin, but they are in such a low percentile, that I don't think it's going to really make a difference.

I feel part of the issue is that there is a misunderstanding of the Champion System. It's an alternate complimentary system, it's not like you're going to be a game breaking god if you have 2100 points locked into the system, and I have 600. We are going to be comparable on every other levels, it will just give you some unique options and twists on your current repertoire.

Thanks,

Andrew

James-Wayne

Thanks for the insight all, answered my question somewhat.

I do love the enlightenment system because like myself and many others I have responsibilities in every day life so can not be online that often but knowing I'm paying a sub and getting something back when I log in is very cool however I have one other question...

If you have a character that isn’t Veteran Rank 14 right now, and you’re wondering if it is worth the time investment to level since they are removing the ranks all together, it is. They have implemented a tracking system that is already tracking our progress, so even those of us who are Veteran Rank 14 are already earning Champion System Points.

I have alts below Level 50 and my main is VR14 which I still play regularly SO currently I do not get any more VP however knowing there is a system in the background counting my VP/XP for CP later am I better off to continue playing my main or switch to my alts and level them to VR instead?

They do not clarify if you still earn points from the background system if you are already VR14, because if I don't any earn anything shouldn't I just stop playing my main?

Leijona

James-Wayne wrote: »

I have alts below Level 50 and my main is VR14 which I still play regularly SO currently I do not get any more VP however knowing there is a system in the background counting my VP/XP for CP later am I better off to continue playing my main or switch to my alts and level them to VR instead?

They do not clarify if you still earn points from the background system if you are already VR14, because if I don't any earn anything shouldn't I just stop playing my main?

I asked exactly that question on the Guild Summit. And Maria answered, that it does make sense to play your VR14 character, as they can track all points he would get, allthough we don't see that.

david271749

Leijona wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

I have alts below Level 50 and my main is VR14 which I still play regularly SO currently I do not get any more VP however knowing there is a system in the background counting my VP/XP for CP later am I better off to continue playing my main or switch to my alts and level them to VR instead?

They do not clarify if you still earn points from the background system if you are already VR14, because if I don't any earn anything shouldn't I just stop playing my main?

I asked exactly that question on the Guild Summit. And Maria answered, that it does make sense to play your VR14 character, as they can track all points he would get, allthough we don't see that.

Sonds like false promises. They also said they were tracking vp at vet 12 for next level cap. Look where that went. A lot of people were pissed over wasted vp.

DerpyShadowz

adean27 wrote: »

@david271749 I think what you're getting at, is could you essentially level 8 characters to VR 1 and then let 7 of those characters sit and then log into them later and get a faster XP rate?

The answer to that is yes.

Andrew

As far as i knew or understood, The enlightenment is an account wide system, its not a per character basis. So you cant stack it up with multiple characters.

So if you have 8 characters all at lvl 50, you still only gain the same amount as someone with only 1 character, You just have to choose which character to log in to and use this enlightenment on.

adean27

James-Wayne wrote: »

Thanks for the insight all, answered my question somewhat.

I do love the enlightenment system because like myself and many others I have responsibilities in every day life so can not be online that often but knowing I'm paying a sub and getting something back when I log in is very cool however I have one other question...

If you have a character that isn’t Veteran Rank 14 right now, and you’re wondering if it is worth the time investment to level since they are removing the ranks all together, it is. They have implemented a tracking system that is already tracking our progress, so even those of us who are Veteran Rank 14 are already earning Champion System Points.

I have alts below Level 50 and my main is VR14 which I still play regularly SO currently I do not get any more VP however knowing there is a system in the background counting my VP/XP for CP later am I better off to continue playing my main or switch to my alts and level them to VR instead?

They do not clarify if you still earn points from the background system if you are already VR14, because if I don't any earn anything shouldn't I just stop playing my main?

It's going to have the exact same affect. It tracks account wide XP. So if you keep playing your VR 14 and make 4,000,000 XP or you play 3 alts and make 4,000,000 XP, You're still making 4,000,000 XP.

Leijona

I Highlander l wrote: »

As far as i knew or understood, The enlightenment is an account wide system, its not a per character basis. So you cant stack it up with multiple characters.

So if you have 8 characters all at lvl 50, you still only gain the same amount as someone with only 1 character, You just have to choose which character to log in to and use this enlightenment on.

That's how I understood it as well. One pool and every character can pay into it. When you have 500.000 points in it, you can use them either all on one character or 250.000 on two. But not 500.000 on every character. But I'm no native speaker, so ... not sure

Ysne58

I Highlander l wrote: »

adean27 wrote: »

@david271749 I think what you're getting at, is could you essentially level 8 characters to VR 1 and then let 7 of those characters sit and then log into them later and get a faster XP rate?

The answer to that is yes.

Andrew

As far as i knew or understood, The enlightenment is an account wide system, its not a per character basis. So you cant stack it up with multiple characters.

So if you have 8 characters all at lvl 50, you still only gain the same amount as someone with only 1 character, You just have to choose which character to log in to and use this enlightenment on.

The Champion points are system wide, the Enlightment is character only if I understand this correctly.

Nazon_Katts

Ysne58 wrote: »

I Highlander l wrote: »

adean27 wrote: »

@david271749 I think what you're getting at, is could you essentially level 8 characters to VR 1 and then let 7 of those characters sit and then log into them later and get a faster XP rate?

The answer to that is yes.

Andrew

As far as i knew or understood, The enlightenment is an account wide system, its not a per character basis. So you cant stack it up with multiple characters.

So if you have 8 characters all at lvl 50, you still only gain the same amount as someone with only 1 character, You just have to choose which character to log in to and use this enlightenment on.

The Champion points are system wide, the Enlightment is character only if I understand this correctly.

According to the Guild Summit and TF it's gonna be account based.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit/ wrote:

There is a new system, called Enlightenment, which boosts the experience earned towards a champion point. Your account accumulates Enlightenment as long as you have a level 50 character. This prevents there from being a penalty from playing low-level alts.

Leijona

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

According to the Guild Summit and TF it's gonna be account based.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit/ wrote:

There is a new system, called Enlightenment, which boosts the experience earned towards a champion point. Your account accumulates Enlightenment as long as you have a level 50 character. This prevents there from being a penalty from playing low-level alts.

In the way that every character gains Enlightenment bonus. But only Level 50+ characters can use it. And you only have one pool for all 50+ characters.

Example with two 50+ characters.
Enlightenment bonus total is 50.000
Champion points are 50.000
Both characters have 50.000 champion points for their own, but they share the 50.000 Enlightenment bonus. So either only one can use them or they can be splitted.

Right?

DerpyShadowz

Leijona wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

According to the Guild Summit and TF it's gonna be account based.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit/ wrote:

There is a new system, called Enlightenment, which boosts the experience earned towards a champion point. Your account accumulates Enlightenment as long as you have a level 50 character. This prevents there from being a penalty from playing low-level alts.

In the way that every character gains Enlightenment bonus. But only Level 50+ characters can use it. And you only have one pool for all 50+ characters.

Example with two 50+ characters.
Enlightenment bonus total is 50.000
Champion points are 50.000
Both characters have 50.000 champion points for their own, but they share the 50.000 Enlightenment bonus. So either only one can use them or they can be splitted.

Right?

Right.

But i dont think it matters on the amount of characters you have.

Having 1 or 8 lvl 50 char's, you still accumulate the same amount of enlightenment since its account based, and you only have "one" account so to speak.

Skizer78

The champion system can seem a bit confusing but after listening to the guild summit recordings, it seems as there is no benefit to having multiple characters in regards to champion point or enlightenment gains. No matter the number of characters, you gain a single pool for both of those items. They mentioned that there was going to be a beginning cap on champion points that you can build up to when the system goes live to keep people from maxing out the new system on the first day but are still uncertain what that figure will be. As for the enlightenment system, they mentioned that the proposed cap would be one champion point. If you can gain a champion point in an hour, then it does not seem like it would take long to max your enlightenment or use it up. Since they have not gotten a chance to physically test this I imagine they will raise the enlightenment cap or it will not achieve its desired effect. Many of the aspects of the champion system will need in depth testing like strengthening mobs to fit with the new level of ability that characters will have so I would believe that the champion system will be a work in progress type of transition. All good things take time, just hope it's not too long.

Gilvoth

Skizer78 wrote: »

The champion system can seem a bit confusing but after listening to the guild summit recordings, it seems as there is no benefit to having multiple characters in regards to champion point or enlightenment gains. No matter the number of characters, you gain a single pool for both of those items. They mentioned that there was going to be a beginning cap on champion points that you can build up to when the system goes live to keep people from maxing out the new system on the first day but are still uncertain what that figure will be. As for the enlightenment system, they mentioned that the proposed cap would be one champion point. If you can gain a champion point in an hour, then it does not seem like it would take long to max your enlightenment or use it up. Since they have not gotten a chance to physically test this I imagine they will raise the enlightenment cap or it will not achieve its desired effect. Many of the aspects of the champion system will need in depth testing like strengthening mobs to fit with the new level of ability that characters will have so I would believe that the champion system will be a work in progress type of transition. All good things take time, just hope it's not too long.

your comment seems to be the most logical and most realistic of all the answers i have read so far in this thread.
i agree with your perception, and thank you for the input.
i hate to admit there is a carrot hanging on a stick in front of us to try and keep us gaining more and more and more experiance points and acting like a mouse on a treadmill, but with not being able to see any actual numbers because im at v14 and the xp is not showing i am begining to think very seriously that i have hit the current ceiling in xp.
if i am wrong, then i hope i can be proven to be wrong in this case as i will most certainly return to gathering xp if i see it does stack after v14.

RSram

The above explanations answered many of my questions, but one: How does the champion system affect skill abilities that I already earned?

James-Wayne

I believe the champion system is a whole new system with new passives, the existing skill system will still be in place... but correct me if I'm wrong.

Leijona

You are right @James-Wayne, the Championsystem doesn't touch the current skills.

adean27

@James-Wayne But they are re-balancing and re-configuring all the current skills to work better in the Champion and Justice system.