Deviance, Second in World to Down Serpent, with best time yet!

jake_hgrwb17_ESO

thanks for quoting me a bunch there maria "I would also like to point out, that if it is true in some saying they would go help others and answer any questions about content, what makes that different than a video?" "I guess Deviance is one of the first to be called selfish for sharing" hehe @prowlius

RavishedPsyche

jake_hgrwb17_ESO wrote: »

thanks for quoting me a bunch there maria "I would also like to point out, that if it is true in some saying they would go help others and answer any questions about content, what makes that different than a video?" "I guess Deviance is one of the first to be called selfish for sharing" hehe @prowlius

Welllll, you were right.

jake_hgrwb17_ESO

what can i say, being right tends to be a sin i'm guilty of

DDuke

None of this would be a problem, if the raids were longer (having more than two difficult bosses) and had other mechanics preventing people from completing it in a few days/weeks (e.g. gear checks), making people really have to spend effort to complete content, rather than just watching videos of the clears.

Just my thoughts

RavishedPsyche

DDuke wrote: »

None of this would be a problem, if the raids were longer (having more than two difficult bosses) and had other mechanics preventing people from completing it in a few days/weeks (e.g. gear checks), making people really have to spend effort to complete content, rather than just watching videos of the clears.

Just my thoughts

While I agree with the thought, there is some of that in place. People with videos will not be able to just walk in and complete. There are things in place to prevent random groups that aren't in sync with one another from just downing the last boss. For those who are ill prepared this video will do little to nothing, for those who have a good grasp on what is needed it will be useful but by no means will it give it all away for free. Thanks for the comment, and thank you for the congratulations

RavishedPsyche

By the way guys you should check out our stream, which I now have in my signature. We will be streaming starting tonight 10pm est.

Tripwyr

jake_hgrwb17_ESO wrote: »

thanks for quoting me a bunch there maria "I would also like to point out, that if it is true in some saying they would go help others and answer any questions about content, what makes that different than a video?" "I guess Deviance is one of the first to be called selfish for sharing" hehe @prowlius

Nothing. Both are extremely disrespectful to those guilds still trying to clear the content, not that it matters at this point with the video already up.

There is nothing more to be said here, the only guild who have taken Deviance's side are Hodor, who were already bashed for posting a video of Dragonstar Arena before it was even released.

RavishedPsyche

Tripwyr wrote: »

jake_hgrwb17_ESO wrote: »

thanks for quoting me a bunch there maria "I would also like to point out, that if it is true in some saying they would go help others and answer any questions about content, what makes that different than a video?" "I guess Deviance is one of the first to be called selfish for sharing" hehe @prowlius

Nothing. Both are extremely disrespectful to those guilds still trying to clear the content, not that it matters at this point with the video already up.

There is nothing more to be said here, the only guild who have taken Deviance's side are Hodor, who were already bashed for posting a video of Dragonstar Arena before it was even released.

The guilds posting here aren't the only guilds out there. They are just the only ones not intimidated by this drama.

comfort-betraysb14_ESO

So here I am, having to deal with this petty drama about how it's wrong to post a video. People calling Deviance the selfish ones? Take a step back and look at it from a different perspective. If you've ever played any other game in your life, strategy means quite a bit, but what is actually important is execution.

Sorry our guild doesn't want to cater to the less than 1% of the game, we want to help the community if anything, and show them that this fight is actually possible. With good execution and proper use of mechanics, you can kill The Serpent.

Can nobody see that our community needs help? How about people stop being so self-centered, keeping everything secret so that they can be the "only ones to do something". Sharing is a big part of our society, and if you truly care about this community, you wouldn't be against what we did here today. This was a celebration post/video to show our amazing progress, and to prove that hard work really pays off.

I don't want to be the ruler of an empty kingdom. I want to share my knowledge and help people. I am all for making tutorial videos and teaching people to get better at the game. I've spent my entire time in this game improving my self one step at a time, and I've taught so many people and helped them. If anyone seriously think we're ruining the spirit of competition, or thinks we've done something wrong, then you're probably either self-centered, egocentric, or jealous.

I thought everyone would be happy to see how we executed the boss, and possibly learn from it, and many were, but I am baffled at some of the negativity and hypocrisy I've read today. I'm not forcing anyone to watch our video, especially the ones that have gotten past the Mantikora with many resurrections left.

I hope many were entertained from watching the video, and enjoyed it! Thank you for taking the time to read my post, and I hope the negativity can stop. And trust me, you won't be seeing 20 separate guilds pop up on the leader boards any time soon, because strategy does not make up everything. If anyone can complete Sanctum Ophidia, then they worked extremely hard, and nothing can be taken away from how much time they put into it.

-Sir Leonard

Tripwyr

We're asking that you wait 1-2 weeks until about 3 or 4 more guilds clear the content then release the video so that those who are struggling can clear it.

You can try to make yourselves look like the good guys all you want, but it won't gain you any respect from other competing guilds.

RavishedPsyche

Tripwyr wrote: »

We're asking that you wait 1-2 weeks until about 3 or 4 more guilds clear the content then release the video so that those who are struggling can clear it.

You can try to make yourselves look like the good guys all you want, but it won't gain you any respect from other competing guilds.

Oh so this is the guide you were worried about? I could show you the difference but I'll keep guides private until a few more guilds clear. For those I still respect, which honestly dwindle in number each time a new person posts exclusionist bull on this board.

Also don't try to say it's about other guilds getting to clear first, it's about you wanting to clear next. You guys posted your video right away, RIGHT AWAY when you downed Mantikora. You are just upset that the guilds who are close to downing it are now on the same playing field as you.

IF you want to play the good guy bad guy game, look at the facts. We are the ones posting things for the community. You guys complain about helping the community.

Not to forget, on the note of respect, I'd much rather have Hordor's respect then that of Alacrity. Now if you want to back peddle more, since you know it was about guides not being posted at all, and videos not at all, now "just until a few people get it", I'm sure some people will continue to listen to you. Me however, I'm done participating in this "discussion" that is only resulting in delusions of grandeur.

Remember at the end of the day kids we play a video game that is supposed to be fun and entertaining for everyone. Not just the one percent, even if you happen to be in the top percent you can be good and friendly to your fellow gamers at the same time. Those at the top should be confident enough to know it takes more than a video (not even a guide) to give people the ability to finish trials and end game content, those not up for that yet should be given the tools to try to improve.

Tripwyr

RavishedPsyche wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

We're asking that you wait 1-2 weeks until about 3 or 4 more guilds clear the content then release the video so that those who are struggling can clear it.

You can try to make yourselves look like the good guys all you want, but it won't gain you any respect from other competing guilds.

Also don't try to say it's about other guilds getting to clear first, it's about you wanting to clear next. You guys posted your video right away, RIGHT AWAY when you downed Mantikora. You are just upset that the guilds who are close to downing it are now on the same playing field as you.

LOL WHAT? We killed the Mantikora weeks ago.

RavishedPsyche wrote: »

For those I still respect, which honestly dwindle in number each time a new person posts exclusionist bull on this board.

Speaking of exclusionist bull, we've had members leave our guild under pressure from you.

Continue justifying it, we never asked you not to ever post a video of the kill. We are just as much advocates of helping others clear content, it is what got our guild on the map (helping you and other guilds clear AA/Hel'Ra for the first time).

It really is as simple as this: several competitive guilds kindly asked you to wait a week or two so that we could clear this boss on a level field to other competitive guilds. You chose not to respect our request and instead posted the video. Stop complicating things.

TheMast3r

Tripwyr wrote: »

There is nothing more to be said here, the only guild who have taken Deviance's side are Hodor, who were already bashed for posting a video of Dragonstar Arena before it was even released.

LOL bashed from 5 alactrity members who spammed our thread.

They cleared and they have the right to post their video. Stop spamming their thread with nonsens discussions.

They did a hard work. There is a reason why u didnt clear it so far. And the reason is that DEVIANCE spend more time and worked harder than you in this trial. Pay them the respect they earned and dont derail their thread.

And for the community at all they videos are good and making the game more interesting. Nobody except the top tier guild wants to spend 3 weeks in try and fail.

And still there is hardmode ... enough to do for the top tier guilds!!!!

RavishedPsyche

Tripwyr wrote: »

Speaking of exclusionist bull, we've had members leave our guild under pressure from you.

Never have I told anyone to leave Alacrity. Now you are just trying to bring fictional (or hearsay induced at best) drama to the thread. Please refrain from doing so.

TheMast3r wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

There is nothing more to be said here, the only guild who have taken Deviance's side are Hodor, who were already bashed for posting a video of Dragonstar Arena before it was even released.

LOL bashed from 5 alactrity members who spammed our thread.

They cleared and they have the right to post their video. Stop spamming their thread with nonsens discussions.

They did a hard work. There is a reason why u didnt clear it so far. And the reason is that DEVIANCE spend more time and worked harder than you in this trial. Pay them the respect they earned and dont derail their thread.

And for the community at all they videos are good and making the game more interesting. Nobody except the top tier guild wants to spend 3 weeks in try and fail.

And still there is hardmode ... enough to do for the top tier guilds!!!!

Also, thank you again for the congratulations and support, it is very much appreciated.

Braidas

From the completely objective view of the almighty BRAIDAS, Deviance seems to be quite selfishly seeking attention. He will use a post from one of your members as an example, for it appears to reflect the guild leadership's sentiments in general:

comfort-betraysb14_ESO wrote: »

strategy means quite a bit

Yes, and you've taken the strategy portion out of it for competing guilds (at least for completion, other guilds will ofc come up with better strats for faster times).

comfort-betraysb14_ESO wrote: »

Sorry our guild doesn't want to cater to the less than 1% of the game

That 1% is your competitors whose respect should mean a lot to you. Unfortunately, you've now lost quite a bit of it....bad move.

comfort-betraysb14_ESO wrote: »

Can nobody see that our community needs help? How about people stop being so self-centered, keeping everything secret so that they can be the "only ones to do something". Sharing is a big part of our society, and if you truly care about this community, you wouldn't be against what we did here today. This was a celebration post/video to show our amazing progress, and to prove that hard work really pays off.

How many casual guilds are even attempting this? As you said, a large part of trials comes down to execution which most players won't be able to pull off. It's supposed to be difficult end game content - this video won't help casuals who still get roflstomped by the whispmother, only *** off your competitors.

And yes, it's very clear you wanted everyone to appreciate your "amazing progress", even though multiple guilds completed it before you...

comfort-betraysb14_ESO wrote: »

I don't want to be the ruler of an empty kingdom. I want to share my knowledge and help people. I am all for making tutorial videos and teaching people to get better at the game. I've spent my entire time in this game improving my self one step at a time, and I've taught so many people and helped them. If anyone seriously think we're ruining the spirit of competition, or thinks we've done something wrong, then you're probably either self-centered, egocentric, or jealous.

Yeah that's kind of the whole vibe BRAIDAS gets from this: you guys are awesome, other people are jealous, come watch our awesome video (even though better guilds with lesser egos beat it before us).


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]

Syntse

As outsider and potential viewer base of streams and youtube channels I have to say it was about time to see some footage from the serpent trials. Unfortunately this competitive guilds arguing has lessen the cool factor of competitive guilds in my eyes. Why? I'm casual who gets entertainment watching skilled people work through tough content which I will never manage to do. Now hearing that competitive guilds have unwritten rule that once new content is released people should not post videos about it until after 4 months or that at least 10 guilds have completed it.

With this not only you are hurting possibly guilds that struggle but the whole game in general. When people see on youtube or twitch good content of this game they might like to buy the game or someone might like to become competitive because of those. Of course none of you are obligated to do this free marketing of TESO. But I'm sure there are people who record these or stream these because they want to provide to others and not because they are selfish. And in long run it will possibly help promote the game and competitive scene.

I was almost ready to stop looking for any videos related serpent trials when these popped up here and I was excited to watch them. So like people have said in previous comments that yes these videos show some strategy, now it is time for the competitive guilds to improve the strategies for better times.

Tripwyr

Syntse wrote: »

As outsider and potential viewer base of streams and youtube channels I have to say it was about time to see some footage from the serpent trials. Unfortunately this competitive guilds arguing has lessen the cool factor of competitive guilds in my eyes. Why? I'm casual who gets entertainment watching skilled people work through tough content which I will never manage to do. Now hearing that competitive guilds have unwritten rule that once new content is released people should not post videos about it until after 4 months or that at least 10 guilds have completed it.

With this not only you are hurting possibly guilds that struggle but the whole game in general. When people see on youtube or twitch good content of this game they might like to buy the game or someone might like to become competitive because of those. Of course none of you are obligated to do this free marketing of TESO. But I'm sure there are people who record these or stream these because they want to provide to others and not because they are selfish. And in long run it will possibly help promote the game and competitive scene.

I was almost ready to stop looking for any videos related serpent trials when these popped up here and I was excited to watch them. So like people have said in previous comments that yes these videos show some strategy, now it is time for the competitive guilds to improve the strategies for better times.

Would you not consider 2 weeks and/or 4-5 guilds completion a happy medium? Do you think that all guilds should post their videos immediately upon completion so that no other guilds can have the satisfaction of remaining competitive on their own merit?

Serious question, because I'm really struggling to understand why posting 1 week earlier is worth disrespecting the kind requests of several competitive guilds.

RavishedPsyche

I said well before posting that was what i was going to do. I didn't post the guide, but no one said any complaint about posting the kill that I said was coming.

Jules

Think of it this way. In high school, kids compete for top SAT scores. These scores influence their futures. Better scores mean more promising scholarship packages and whatnot. For analogy purposes, deviance just got an extremely high SAT score. But rather than letting the rest of the ultra competitive honor students continue to take their test, they posted the correct answers on the board in front of them.

Now, the kids are put in an impossible situation. Because on one hand, the want to remain competitive and get high scores so they can be optimized for college. Everyone's in the room and their classmates are their competition. The answers are just right there, so the chances of the other kids looking at them is high. On the other hand, they never wanted those answers to be posted there. They've studied for this test for a long time and the sense of accomplishment is stripped from them now. Not to mention, even getting a high score can now be attributed to the answers that were posted, rather than their hard work. Caught between a rock and a hard place.

Tripwyr

Tripwyr wrote: »

Anjelicus wrote: »

Congrats on the kill!

For guilds actually trying to be competitive in PvE, I'm sure they would not appreciate strategies being posted for these; at least for about a month after the kill. Honestly learning these fights is one of the few things that keeps alot of us still around in ESO. I Personally am against releasing strats at this point in time.

Same goes for me. The competition created by learning the fight then racing to beat it before other guilds is what keeps me PvEing in this game.

RavishedPsyche wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

You're joking right? Thats beyond an arrogant claim considering reds extremely limited interaction with yellow. But hey I'm sure any guild that WOULD want help on Serpent would definitely be hitting up a guild that hadn't cleared till last night for the advice?

I think these aren't the droids you're looking for?

However, competition wise, isn't it nice having more than two guilds to compete with? Perhaps it is that you all don't want competition.

If this is your goal, posting a video of your kill is detrimental to that goal. Posting a video means that any guild who wants to be competitive needs to watch that video, use your strategy, and race to kill the boss. There is no learning, and all of the guilds capable of inventing their own strategies will leave the game because it is no longer competitive. You'll be left with you and LP, then next season whoever wins the race will post their strategy, the loser will need to use it, and you'll be down to one guild.

Its your call, but I'm not going to continue competing if the learning phase of the boss disappears, and I think many other guilds will be the same. Create a poll among the guilds competing for the kill, not a general poll including everybody with no competitive stakes.

Jules wrote: »

Wiping and learning the mechanics is a part of the process. That pride that you feel after struggling with something and then downing it is that rush that we all play for. If people need someone else to do the heavy lifting for them- ie: explaining in detail all the strats, then why even bother?

Sure, it'll still take the execution, but that takes all of the fun and sense of accomplishment out of it. Not to mention it waters down the achievement for the rest of us pushing through.

In short, literally 2 guilds in the world have cleared this. Posting videos and guides for this is definitely premature and problematic for those of us still pushing for clears legitimately.

There are Alacrity and Potato Syndicate both asking you not to post a video or a guide.

RavishedPsyche wrote: »

I said well before posting that was what i was going to do. I didn't post the guide, but no one said any complaint about posting the kill that I said was coming.

RavishedPsyche

And I had triple that asking for the opposite,via direct contact. Plus those guilds have a positive relationship with Deviance. I have not posted guides, and the one video gives minimal strat compared to what is needed to down it. I do apologize to those who are upset and feel disrespected, and I hope you all understand some day, that this was not meant as some harm to any of you.

Most will never clear SO in this game as it is, without help, and even with help a lot of time. This however, was not even that helpful from tank perspective etc. If you don't want to watch it don't, if you do yay. It does not take away from the current competition seeing as anyone close to clear would be doing something similar to what is seen in the video.

I maintain that we wish to help the majority and promote Eso via video to encourage more to subscribe. I can understand the points expressed, I just can't agree. Agree to disagree and let it go. This is a game, have fun. I'm sure there are things Alacrity and Potato had done that others don't agree with. There will be more on all sides eventually I'm sure.

Jules

Agree to disagree. It wasn't just our guilds that disagree with your decision, but yeah, at this point it's definitely just beating a dead horse.

Tripwyr

RavishedPsyche wrote: »

And I had triple that asking for the opposite,via direct contact. Plus those guilds have a positive relationship with Deviance. I have not posted guides, and the one video gives minimal strat compared to what is needed to down it. I do apologize to those who are upset and feel disrespected, and I hope you all understand some day, that this was not meant as some harm to any of you.

Most will never clear SO in this game as it is, without help, and even with help a lot of time. This however, was not even that helpful from tank perspective etc. If you don't want to watch it don't, if you do yay. It does not take away from the current competition seeing as anyone close to clear would be doing something similar to what is seen in the video.

I maintain that we wish to help the majority and promote Eso via video to encourage more to subscribe. I can understand the points expressed, I just can't agree. Agree to disagree and let it go. This is a game, have fun. I'm sure there are things Alacrity and Potato had done that others don't agree with. There will be more on all sides eventually I'm sure.

Are you serious? The tank perspective gives a view of the entire fight, and shows your entire strategy in 1440p HD.

Anybody who is capable of employing your strategies to beat the encounter is also capable of deconstructing your strategies from the video you posted.

Again, you're just overcomplicating a simple concept: several guilds competing in PvE asked you not to post your video. You chose to disrespect the wishes of those guilds and post the video, destroying any competition and ensuring that anybody who defeats the encounter going forward did so with your help. Not only that, but you then claimed semantics when you were called out immediately after posting the video.

ZOS_UlyssesW

Hello, folks.
We have had to remove quite a few posts in this thread because they violated our Forum Code of Conduct. We would like to keep this discussion open, but we ask that that everyone keep their disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. Even though this is a heated discussion, we ask that users stay focused on the topic at hand, and not reply with hostility towards one another. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion. Thank you for your understanding.

Syntse

Tripwyr wrote: »

Would you not consider 2 weeks and/or 4-5 guilds completion a happy medium? Do you think that all guilds should post their videos immediately upon completion so that no other guilds can have the satisfaction of remaining competitive on their own merit?

Serious question, because I'm really struggling to understand why posting 1 week earlier is worth disrespecting the kind requests of several competitive guilds.

It's almost month since the release so yes 2 weeks would be ok. Also think the 4-5 guilds are prolly met criteria also. However I'm in no position to demand any content to be released after 2 weeks, it's up to content providers. But yes, I would not mind to see videos immediately upon completeon of killing boss or finishing dungeon.

Somehow your code of honor makes me think people are not just up to the task as if someone releases something they NEED to watch it to go forward, everyone can choose to watch or not to watch. So some people watched video and got aid and some figured out on themselves. So you found out without aids, you can be proud of yourselves. If you're offended by someone who did it with tutorial then shame on you, it's just a game.

I don't go into your argument about guilds asking not to post cause there are pretty mixed responses about that and it's not my job to judge. For me it looks like that you are now afraid that what you think are lesser guilds will complete the trial with added help faster or better than you and you are threatened, lose your cool because they watched video.

I was ready to stop looking for videos about the trial and these topics arise, followed by load of negative comments. Not that any random viewer would matter to competivite groups.

poirt56

First off, Congrats to Deviance for a new record time. To the others bashing the video, why would you care? The race is over, nobody sticks around to see who the 3rd, 4th, or 5th place winners are. I watched the video, looks like you need 12 people who are competent in their A game to actually down any boss in SO. It's not like they showed a glitch or bug that turns the boss into a loot pinata. I would post the strategy to all bosses, screw the elitists, you all in Deviance are doing the right thing!

Ifthir_ESO

Manpoints wrote: »

Dog Move. Dog guild. Show 0 respect for other guilds, expect 0 respect back.

Irony. Definition of. Considering what guild you are GM of, and the mass exodus of your ex-members to other guilds.

Just saying.

Ifthir_ESO

Tripwyr wrote: »

There are Alacrity and Potato Syndicate both asking you not to post a video or a guide.

The arrogance of you expecting other players to adhere to your desires is absolutely amazing. The fact that you use two of the most criticized guilds in the game to make your point is just...wow.

Imagine if I said "My guild would like Alacrity to all fight in PvP naked and wielding only Wabbajacks". By your logic here, Alacrity should do it, since two guilds requested it. See how bad that logic is?

I just don't get why Alacrity would be so mad that others completed this stuff and showed people how to do it. Everyone knows Potato gets mad when the wind blows so there is no need to belabor that point.

Jules

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

Dog Move. Dog guild. Show 0 respect for other guilds, expect 0 respect back.

Irony. Definition of. Considering what guild you are GM of, and the mass exodus of your ex-members to other guilds.

Just saying.

1. That is not the definition of irony. You are completely misguided in believing that. If you're going to try to school someone, try google first.

Dictionary.com:
A. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning:
the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
B. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.


2. Who even are you? And why are you concerning yourself with the people and inner workings of a guild you have never been associated with?
3. Do you even lift bro?

Tripwyr

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

There are Alacrity and Potato Syndicate both asking you not to post a video or a guide.

The arrogance of you expecting other players to adhere to your desires is absolutely amazing. The fact that you use two of the most criticized guilds in the game to make your point is just...wow.

Imagine if I said "My guild would like Alacrity to all fight in PvP naked and wielding only Wabbajacks". By your logic here, Alacrity should do it, since two guilds requested it. See how bad that logic is?

I just don't get why Alacrity would be so mad that others completed this stuff and showed people how to do it. Everyone knows Potato gets mad when the wind blows so there is no need to belabor that point.

If we could fight naked weilding a daedric artifact that turns enemies into critters, we would.

On a more serious note, we politely asked them not to post a video, and several competitive PvE guilds are upset that they posted it. They even lost at least 1 core member as the result of this video.

It upset our guild and those still trying to complete the content, it is as simple as that. You can flame us all you want, I don't really care.