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Lack of support for melee sorcerer.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't know all of the other classes extremely well but Sorc is very limited in how his own class contributes to his abilities if he stacks stamina. It is Crit Surge and Bound Armaments and that is basically it. Negates will always be useful but everything else is garbage and not worth casting.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Crescent✭✭✭✭I don't know all of the other classes extremely well but Sorc is very limited in how his own class contributes to his abilities if he stacks stamina. It is Crit Surge and Bound Armaments and that is basically it. Negates will always be useful but everything else is garbage and not worth casting.
By far the largest issue is a total lack of way to regenerate resources like stamina and magicka back as a melee sorcerer.
A NB just turns on Siphoning Attacks and gains his resources back, on top of increased potion effectiveness and the trait passive for increased 15% stamina regen.
It's a 25% weapon damage penalty, not a 25% damage penalty, so you're actually losing closer to 15% damage. It's NOTHING compared to the damage you lose by having no stamina or magicka whatsoever. A NB in any prolonged encounter or AoE heavy setting with multiple steel tornados on top of a single boss, has far more lasting power.
Anyone who plays a melee sorcerer knows that even wasting metric tons of gold on the best stamina potions, you're gonna run out of stamina quick if you didn't roll Redguard. And then your damage plummets.
And the heavy attack giving stamina returns will change nothing. Some classes and races will be able to lose less DPS by needing to use less heavy attacks and spam more of their more damaging skills.
And the sorcerer will still have no skill to give them magicka back that doesn't also wipe out their stamina bar and CC's them for 4 seconds (a 4 second stationary channel is effectively a self CC and 4 seconds of 0 DPS).
Unless you're feeling suicidal and using spell symmetry in a game whose encounters already despise melee with all the lethal aoe/cleaves bosses love to spam.Edited by Crescent on October 17, 2014 2:57PM1 -
iidcjriiSoul ShrivenAs a stamina Sorc, I have not had too much trouble with survivability. Sure, my DPS is a bit lower than some of the spell slinging builds, but I can endure a long fight and take some heavy hits, not to mention dodging hits since I run 7/7 medium armor.
I'm not sure what weapon you are using? You are correct when stating you need more weapon skills than class skills to stay viable. I use 2H and DW, though I know other stamina Sorcs who use restro staff for self heals.
The point is if you want to be a melee Sorc, you will be more successful as a stamina build and use class skills to boost weapon dmg and armor (thundering presence, bound armaments, crit surge). I can share my build if you would like. It's not perfect but I have fun with it and it has been very viable for me.
Wish you all the luck.
My post is not about what you just replied. Anyone can survive with any build, I could go shield bash if I wanted to.
The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.
As a stamina build nightblades and DK's are still using many of their class skills to enhance themselves. We only have one enhancement, which is crappier than the DK and NB equivalent, and unlike NB and DK the melee sorcerer outputs less DPS because of it, we have no group support whatsoever (most sorcerer class skills are plain damage skills with no utility).
Stamina builds don't have good AoE either until someone puts mobs at execute range for Steel Tornado.As a stamina Sorc, I have not had too much trouble with survivability. Sure, my DPS is a bit lower than some of the spell slinging builds, but I can endure a long fight and take some heavy hits, not to mention dodging hits since I run 7/7 medium armor.
I'm not sure what weapon you are using? You are correct when stating you need more weapon skills than class skills to stay viable. I use 2H and DW, though I know other stamina Sorcs who use restro staff for self heals.
The point is if you want to be a melee Sorc, you will be more successful as a stamina build and use class skills to boost weapon dmg and armor (thundering presence, bound armaments, crit surge). I can share my build if you would like. It's not perfect but I have fun with it and it has been very viable for me.
Wish you all the luck.
My post is not about what you just replied. Anyone can survive with any build, I could go shield bash if I wanted to.
The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.
As a stamina build nightblades and DK's are still using many of their class skills to enhance themselves. We only have one enhancement, which is crappier than the DK and NB equivalent, and unlike NB and DK the melee sorcerer outputs less DPS because of it, we have no group support whatsoever (most sorcerer class skills are plain damage skills with no utility).
Stamina builds don't have good AoE either until someone puts mobs at execute range for Steel Tornado.As a stamina Sorc, I have not had too much trouble with survivability. Sure, my DPS is a bit lower than some of the spell slinging builds, but I can endure a long fight and take some heavy hits, not to mention dodging hits since I run 7/7 medium armor.
I'm not sure what weapon you are using? You are correct when stating you need more weapon skills than class skills to stay viable. I use 2H and DW, though I know other stamina Sorcs who use restro staff for self heals.
The point is if you want to be a melee Sorc, you will be more successful as a stamina build and use class skills to boost weapon dmg and armor (thundering presence, bound armaments, crit surge). I can share my build if you would like. It's not perfect but I have fun with it and it has been very viable for me.
Wish you all the luck.
My post is not about what you just replied. Anyone can survive with any build, I could go shield bash if I wanted to.
The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.
As a stamina build nightblades and DK's are still using many of their class skills to enhance themselves. We only have one enhancement, which is crappier than the DK and NB equivalent, and unlike NB and DK the melee sorcerer outputs less DPS because of it, we have no group support whatsoever (most sorcerer class skills are plain damage skills with no utility).
Stamina builds don't have good AoE either until someone puts mobs at execute range for Steel Tornado.As a stamina Sorc, I have not had too much trouble with survivability. Sure, my DPS is a bit lower than some of the spell slinging builds, but I can endure a long fight and take some heavy hits, not to mention dodging hits since I run 7/7 medium armor.
I'm not sure what weapon you are using? You are correct when stating you need more weapon skills than class skills to stay viable. I use 2H and DW, though I know other stamina Sorcs who use restro staff for self heals.
The point is if you want to be a melee Sorc, you will be more successful as a stamina build and use class skills to boost weapon dmg and armor (thundering presence, bound armaments, crit surge). I can share my build if you would like. It's not perfect but I have fun with it and it has been very viable for me.
Wish you all the luck.
My post is not about what you just replied. Anyone can survive with any build, I could go shield bash if I wanted to.
The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.
As a stamina build nightblades and DK's are still using many of their class skills to enhance themselves. We only have one enhancement, which is crappier than the DK and NB equivalent, and unlike NB and DK the melee sorcerer outputs less DPS because of it, we have no group support whatsoever (most sorcerer class skills are plain damage skills with no utility).
Stamina builds don't have good AoE either until someone puts mobs at execute range for Steel Tornado.As a stamina Sorc, I have not had too much trouble with survivability. Sure, my DPS is a bit lower than some of the spell slinging builds, but I can endure a long fight and take some heavy hits, not to mention dodging hits since I run 7/7 medium armor.
I'm not sure what weapon you are using? You are correct when stating you need more weapon skills than class skills to stay viable. I use 2H and DW, though I know other stamina Sorcs who use restro staff for self heals.
The point is if you want to be a melee Sorc, you will be more successful as a stamina build and use class skills to boost weapon dmg and armor (thundering presence, bound armaments, crit surge). I can share my build if you would like. It's not perfect but I have fun with it and it has been very viable for me.
Wish you all the luck.
My post is not about what you just replied. Anyone can survive with any build, I could go shield bash if I wanted to.
The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.
As a stamina build nightblades and DK's are still using many of their class skills to enhance themselves. We only have one enhancement, which is crappier than the DK and NB equivalent, and unlike NB and DK the melee sorcerer outputs less DPS because of it, we have no group support whatsoever (most sorcerer class skills are plain damage skills with no utility).
Stamina builds don't have good AoE either until someone puts mobs at execute range for Steel Tornado.I wish they would tell you these things in advance instead of telling you that there's some build variety. I wouldn't have leveled a sorcerer past veteran ranks if I had known that all the QQ about caster sorcerers (actually destro staff, but to people destro staff and sorcerer is the same) would keep melee sorcerers in a [snip]
There are TWO skills you can get out of any of your class trees on a melee sorcerer. Critical Surge and Thundering Presence/Boundless Storm. That's it.
Critical Surge is just an inferior Igneous weapons. The entirety of a sorcerer's survival options is critical surge, the spell costs a metric ton more mana than the DK version, is single target so not even group support, and lasts far less time than the minute long DK enchantment.
The summon line is all screwed. The pets are useless in a dungeon as they die pretty much immediately, they do terrible damage unless you stack magicka way past the cap, and they offer no AoE.
Bolt Escape now costs you 1/3 of your magicka pool as a melee sorcerer when critical surge alone already costs you 50%+ of your magicka pool. And they keep making it more expensive instead of nerfing the damn magicka reduction passives from light armor traits and nerfing the warlock magicka return set bonus.
All the other sorcerer spells involve either a cast time, interrupting melee, or are hideously expensive magicka wise.
It's like you WANT to force me to go robes and stick, because the class lines for the sorcerer are so incredibly lacking. Velocious Curse is bad, my flying blade spam does more DPS.
In fact, most of my bars consist of Critical Surge, maybe Thundering Presence or Endless Wrath, and THAT'S IT for class skills the rest is all on weaponskills. Which is too bad because most weaponskills lack completely in utility or AoE let alone control.
Lightning Flood is such pitiful damage if nobody activates it for you. It's incredible that they design a class skill where you need someone else to synergize it for it to not be total garbage. Why not make Lightning Flood detonate after its channeling damage ends?
My sorcerer NEEDS to keep critical surge up, and that's still going to be an inferior melee build to a Nightblade who gets power drain for an equally if not better weapon damage boost, AND 15% melee haste and pretty much cheaper spells with control and utility. I'm not even discussing DK because let's be honest what melee compares to a DK in group utility and survival.
You need to do something about melee sorcerers and their class skills and costs. Either give sorcerers some magicka return whenever they wield melee weapons/bows so they can afford something so outrageously expensive as encase or Daedric Mines. And you need to just change a morph for Dark Exchange so melee sorcerers have an option for replenishing stamina and health.
I don't want to be forced into some mindnumbing Crushing Shock build in robes or be forced to repeat hundreds of hours worth of grind in vet ranks and skyshards and achievements for zone completion rerolling into a DK or NB so I can melee....
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
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iidcjriiSoul ShrivenI'm not sure, maybe your just not that good? My sorc is built for range magic not even melee, but the skills I'm using I am almost tempted to switch back to a melee sorc after rerolling. Not sure where the problem is? Pull with dark crystal hit em with lightning till they get to you lightning splash around you then lightning armor then pull out your DW or whatever weapon and hack away. While your finishing off the pull which should almost be dead by time you pull out your weapon the others are will have 1/3 almost half their health gone from the AOE and then if you want to melee you should have a resto staff as backup heals bang there you go. Probably the best Melee fighter option in the game IMO. Only downside is self heal.0
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm not sure, maybe your just not that good? My sorc is built for range magic not even melee, but the skills I'm using I am almost tempted to switch back to a melee sorc after rerolling. Not sure where the problem is? Pull with dark crystal hit em with lightning till they get to you lightning splash around you then lightning armor then pull out your DW or whatever weapon and hack away. While your finishing off the pull which should almost be dead by time you pull out your weapon the others are will have 1/3 almost half their health gone from the AOE and then if you want to melee you should have a resto staff as backup heals bang there you go. Probably the best Melee fighter option in the game IMO. Only downside is self heal.
This thread is from 2014.0
