Lack of support for melee sorcerer.

Crescent

I wish they would tell you these things in advance instead of telling you that there's some build variety. I wouldn't have leveled a sorcerer past veteran ranks if I had known that all the QQ about caster sorcerers (actually destro staff, but to people destro staff and sorcerer is the same) would keep melee sorcerers in a [snip]

There are TWO skills you can get out of any of your class trees on a melee sorcerer. Critical Surge and Thundering Presence/Boundless Storm. That's it.

Critical Surge is just an inferior Igneous weapons. The entirety of a sorcerer's survival options is critical surge, the spell costs a metric ton more mana than the DK version, is single target so not even group support, and lasts far less time than the minute long DK enchantment.

The summon line is all screwed. The pets are useless in a dungeon as they die pretty much immediately, they do terrible damage unless you stack magicka way past the cap, and they offer no AoE.

Bolt Escape now costs you 1/3 of your magicka pool as a melee sorcerer when critical surge alone already costs you 50%+ of your magicka pool. And they keep making it more expensive instead of nerfing the damn magicka reduction passives from light armor traits and nerfing the warlock magicka return set bonus.

All the other sorcerer spells involve either a cast time, interrupting melee, or are hideously expensive magicka wise.

It's like you WANT to force me to go robes and stick, because the class lines for the sorcerer are so incredibly lacking. Velocious Curse is bad, my flying blade spam does more DPS.

In fact, most of my bars consist of Critical Surge, maybe Thundering Presence or Endless Wrath, and THAT'S IT for class skills the rest is all on weaponskills. Which is too bad because most weaponskills lack completely in utility or AoE let alone control.

Lightning Flood is such pitiful damage if nobody activates it for you. It's incredible that they design a class skill where you need someone else to synergize it for it to not be total garbage. Why not make Lightning Flood detonate after its channeling damage ends?

My sorcerer NEEDS to keep critical surge up, and that's still going to be an inferior melee build to a Nightblade who gets power drain for an equally if not better weapon damage boost, AND 15% melee haste and pretty much cheaper spells with control and utility. I'm not even discussing DK because let's be honest what melee compares to a DK in group utility and survival.

You need to do something about melee sorcerers and their class skills and costs. Either give sorcerers some magicka return whenever they wield melee weapons/bows so they can afford something so outrageously expensive as encase or Daedric Mines. And you need to just change a morph for Dark Exchange so melee sorcerers have an option for replenishing stamina and health.

I don't want to be forced into some mindnumbing Crushing Shock build in robes or be forced to repeat hundreds of hours worth of grind in vet ranks and skyshards and achievements for zone completion rerolling into a DK or NB so I can melee....


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Resueht

As a stamina Sorc, I have not had too much trouble with survivability. Sure, my DPS is a bit lower than some of the spell slinging builds, but I can endure a long fight and take some heavy hits, not to mention dodging hits since I run 7/7 medium armor.

I'm not sure what weapon you are using? You are correct when stating you need more weapon skills than class skills to stay viable. I use 2H and DW, though I know other stamina Sorcs who use restro staff for self heals.

The point is if you want to be a melee Sorc, you will be more successful as a stamina build and use class skills to boost weapon dmg and armor (thundering presence, bound armaments, crit surge). I can share my build if you would like. It's not perfect but I have fun with it and it has been very viable for me.

Wish you all the luck.

Crescent

Resueht wrote: »

As a stamina Sorc, I have not had too much trouble with survivability. Sure, my DPS is a bit lower than some of the spell slinging builds, but I can endure a long fight and take some heavy hits, not to mention dodging hits since I run 7/7 medium armor.

I'm not sure what weapon you are using? You are correct when stating you need more weapon skills than class skills to stay viable. I use 2H and DW, though I know other stamina Sorcs who use restro staff for self heals.

The point is if you want to be a melee Sorc, you will be more successful as a stamina build and use class skills to boost weapon dmg and armor (thundering presence, bound armaments, crit surge). I can share my build if you would like. It's not perfect but I have fun with it and it has been very viable for me.

Wish you all the luck.

My post is not about what you just replied. Anyone can survive with any build, I could go shield bash if I wanted to.

The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.

As a stamina build nightblades and DK's are still using many of their class skills to enhance themselves. We only have one enhancement, which is crappier than the DK and NB equivalent, and unlike NB and DK the melee sorcerer outputs less DPS because of it, we have no group support whatsoever (most sorcerer class skills are plain damage skills with no utility).

Stamina builds don't have good AoE either until someone puts mobs at execute range for Steel Tornado.

chipputer

Make use of Entropy's Degeneration morph. It's very useful and especially helps in long drawn out fights (you can spam it for instant small heals for a very small portion of magicka).

Resueht

I thought I was replying to the point of your post, sorry for the misinterpretation on my part.

Yeah, I can agree that there is little synergy between sorc skills and melee range abilities. I think got a little too focused on fitting magic to a spell slinger role and left out magic-buffed sword swingers. I feel like the skill passives are where we get shafted the most. Mostly because I feel like they only pay off if you are using multiple skills per tree.

What I was trying to do in my previous post was offer some tweaks to your possible play style to allow you more opportunities. I don't know what armor you use, but I like bound armaments for the extra dmg on heavy attacks, especially since they added the stamina recovery.

Yes, the stamina sorc does put out less DPS than a stam DK or NB. That is the most unfortunate part. Hopefully spellcrafting and the re-work of some stamina skills will help us out.

Crescent

chipputer wrote: »

Make use of Entropy's Degeneration morph. It's very useful and especially helps in long drawn out fights (you can spam it for instant small heals for a very small portion of magicka).

THIS IS NOT A SURVIVAL POST.

This is a post outlining the lack of synergy in the sorcerer class skill lines with a melee playstyle.

bellanca6561n

I'm lost. It's a sorcerer. Every definition I can find says magic user. Give me one, just one definition of the word that has sword, blade, or bow in it.

Does every class have to be able to do every single thing?

Sorry if I sound like one of those dismissive jerks but I honestly am puzzled. If you could help me understand where the expectation came from that magic users should have pronounced melee weapon skills I'd both appreciate it and be much less confused.

I suppose there was Peter Jackson's interpretation of Gandalf using a sword in some scenes but I've always looked at character creation as a series of decisions, opting for one thing at the expense of another. I never saw them as Swiss Army Knives.

MurkMuffin

Levels 1 - 50 I used Bound armor as my lifeblood spell to make melee viable, along with Heavy armor and Sword&Board. There's plenty of passives in there that make it worth your points and perfectly balanced for PVE. Good luck in PvP though. Of course, if you were trying to really get heavy into melee, I think you will always have to reroll for DK.

Crescent

bellanca6561n wrote: »

I'm lost. It's a sorcerer. Every definition I can find says magic user. Give me one, just one definition of the word that has sword, blade, or bow in it.

Does every class have to be able to do every single thing?

Sorry if I sound like one of those dismissive jerks but I honestly am puzzled. If you could help me understand where the expectation came from that magic users should have pronounced melee weapon skills I'd both appreciate it and be much less confused.

I suppose there was Peter Jackson's interpretation of Gandalf using a sword in some scenes but I've always looked at character creation as a series of decisions, opting for one thing at the expense of another. I never saw them as Swiss Army Knives.

Umm, I don't think you get the Elder Scrolls universe. Abnur Tharn is a BATTLEMAGE.

Several of the mobs you encounter around the world are BATTLEMAGES, with big 2h hammers doing lightning splashes and swings.

Sorcerers do SPELLS. Spells do not mean ROBES AND STAVES.

You have a seriously narrow understanding of how elder scrolls games play. The whole point of class flexibility is the heart and soul of the ES franchise.

Hell even in traditional MMO's like WoW you have enhancement shamans, who were melee sorcerers for all intents and purposes, and if you want to add to that death knights and paladins as well as far as melee and wizardry go.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Crescent wrote: »

chipputer wrote: »

Make use of Entropy's Degeneration morph. It's very useful and especially helps in long drawn out fights (you can spam it for instant small heals for a very small portion of magicka).

THIS IS NOT A SURVIVAL POST.

This is a post outlining the lack of synergy in the sorcerer class skill lines with a melee playstyle.

Well, Sorcerers do have one of the best synergy between the Dark Magic line and the Dual Wield line. Supression Field increases your spell resist by 1750, heals you for 5% health (edit : this got changed in the latest patch, triggers when ennemies get inside of the bubble), increase your dmg by 15% with Ruffian passive, increase your critical chance by 15% with exploitation while removing harmfull AoE effects, ennemies Buffs and stuning them for 11,5sec.

Boundless Armement, Critical Surge and Thundering Presence are all great skill to increase the sorcerer surviability and damage. Even the pets could potentialy support a melee build (maybe not the best skill line, but still got its fair of use). Streak or Ball Lightning can potentialy support some melee builds if used right. Encase and Rune prison are definitly not out of order should you need a bit more control in your melee build.

I see 6 abilities that might lack any synergies with a melee build, but I could do the same and check for melee abilities that have no place in ranged builds should I take the DK or the Nightblade.

Every classes have an initial play style in mind, Sorcerers are more ranged centric while DKs are more melee centric. but in none of thoses cases does it prevent those classes to actualy choose a different play style and be somewhat effective in doing so.

In the end, some abilities are just going to do better with some specific builds and you just have to deal with it.

Crescent

You are offering one single ultimate, our most costly ultimate that doesn't even work on some cases, and 3 skills I listed as synergy? 2 of those skills are passive skills, only one of them is offensive and far inferior to the DK and NB versions.

Of those 3 skills you listed, none of them are attack skills. Bound Armaments take up one slot on BOTH bars. So your bars are looking at 1-3 attack skills total? How many of those weaponskills are CC or competitive AoE? Right, none.

As I said, you need to maintain critical surge at all times, and each cast of that skill costs you 50% of your magicka bar. You can cast 1 encase or two before you run OOM. That's the same case pretty much with every skill, because for some reason Critical Surge lasts only a fraction of time of Igneous Weapons, costs twice as much magicka and doesn't affect the group.

And you failed to mention what group support a melee sorc brings over a NB or DK. Because Suppression Field is all you bring. With Talons the DK does better AoE CC than the sorc ever will, and DK ultimates are the best support ultimates in the game.

chipputer

Crescent wrote: »

THIS IS NOT A SURVIVAL POST.

This is a post outlining the lack of synergy in the sorcerer class skill lines with a melee playstyle.

Degeneration syngergizes with a melee Sorcerer.

Look, like it or not if your chosen class doesn't synergize well with your play style you need to branch out and use your other resources. Sorcerer's melee syngergies are mostly defensive. Use them that way, branch out for your other needs.

Sorcerer doesn't need melee synergy. That's why it's a sorcerer.

Crescent

chipputer wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

THIS IS NOT A SURVIVAL POST.

This is a post outlining the lack of synergy in the sorcerer class skill lines with a melee playstyle.

Degeneration syngergizes with a melee Sorcerer.

Look, like it or not if your chosen class doesn't synergize well with your play style you need to branch out and use your other resources. Sorcerer's melee syngergies are mostly defensive. Use them that way, branch out for your other needs.

Sorcerer doesn't need melee synergy. That's why it's a sorcerer.

I don't even know how to reply to something this inane.

Anything that involves veteran group content requires build synergies. Especially timed trials.

If your answer is that being a sorcerer means accepting robe+staff as the only viable hard content builds, I don't think there's any point in discussing with you further.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Crescent wrote: »

You are offering one single ultimate, our most costly ultimate that doesn't even work on some cases, and 3 skills I listed as synergy? 2 of those skills are passive skills, only one of them is offensive and far inferior to the DK and NB versions.

Of those 3 skills you listed, none of them are attack skills. Bound Armaments take up one slot on BOTH bars. So your bars are looking at 1-3 attack skills total? How many of those weaponskills are CC or competitive AoE? Right, none.

As I said, you need to maintain critical surge at all times, and each cast of that skill costs you 50% of your magicka bar. You can cast 1 encase or two before you run OOM. That's the same case pretty much with every skill, because for some reason Critical Surge lasts only a fraction of time of Igneous Weapons, costs twice as much magicka and doesn't affect the group.

And you failed to mention what group support a melee sorc brings over a NB or DK. Because Suppression Field is all you bring. With Talons the DK does better AoE CC than the sorc ever will, and DK ultimates are the best support ultimates in the game.

First, out of the 3 ultimates, only Supression Field has a real synergy with Dual Wield passives. Overload scales with weapon power, which Two-handed and Dual Wield builds get plenty of and the Storm Atronach doesn't get any particular synergy neither does it get any additional benefits from beeing in a ranged build.

For the second part, your comment is quite inaccurate. Steel Tornado is an excellent AoE and actualy does similar damage to impulse when the target is starting to get bellow 50% health and it will deal a lot more when the target is bellow 20% health. Sword and Board is a set that focus around single target control and tanking, so you can't take that one into consideration. Finaly, Two-handed is an underpower mess and unviable in its current state to run trials no matter which classes you play.

Also its quite cute you try to bring NBs team utility against Sorcerers because Negate Magic alone can lock down groups of ennemies, dispel AoEs laying on the ground and do much more. Not to mention Sorcerers can deflect projectiles and they have incredible level of CCs on the battlefield.

DKs PbAoE CC is a 6m radius circle around him. That's barely above melee range while Sorcerers have a 15m wave in front of them with an immobilization rate 3/2 as effective as DKs. The only reason Talons gives a good run to Encase comes from the fact its synergy skill does respectable amounts of damage. If Talons didn't had any synergy it would just be another junk skill because its radius is small, its damage is low and its cost is high.

Critical Surge cost isn't an issue either, you can reduce its cost by 15% alone by taking Unholy Knowledge and Expert Mage passive. Also Critical Surge might be a selfish power but it can't be compared to Molten Armament, because that power alone can sustain your character an entire fight without even resolving to additional healing skills (at least for PvE, PvP is another issue).

Yes DKs might have the best ultimates in the game and they indeed get some decent controls. But trust me when I'm telling you this, Dks do not come remotely close to Sorcerers when it comes to lock down entire ennemy waves in a fight.

Crescent

Its sustain power is balanced by the fact that it's ACTIVE healing. You don't get healed if you need to retreat, if your target outranges you, and it's directly proportionate to your crit rates.

And quite frankly sustaining anyone is easily covered by the healer. Critical Surge by far is mostly overhealing.

Igneous is a substantial DPS boost for the group, on top of DK ultimates.

In order for Steel Tornado to be effective AoE, you need other people to get those mobs to that threshold. Because you don't have any respectable AoE before that point as a stamina build.

And Critical Surge IS a cost issue. With 1600 magicka and those passives you lister critical surge still takes around half of your magicka bar per cast. If you want to use any other spell like stormform or streak well good luck. And encase WILL run you OOM in 1-2 casts on top of Critical Surge.

I honestly think you haven't bothered at all to test these spell costs yourself WITH 7/7 MEDIUM ARMOR AND NO LIGHT ARMOR PASSIVES. Because sorcerer class skill costs are absolutely hideously expensive, Daedric Mines and Encase being the biggest offenders.

But hey, at least we agree that 2H is terrible.

Sord

I know this might sound insane but I think they need to take the 12 ability lines and make them all available and we build our own class. This way we can title our toons to be whatever class we want them to be called. I mean it doesn't really matter what "class" we are because classes are not suppose "be" in Elder Scrolls which is why we love this series. Turn some ability lines into stam based for the melee folks. Get rid of this whole Sorc, DK, Temp, NB builds or keep them as examples. I think this would make people a lot happier and allow for some amazingly diverse builds.

Bah I been saying this forever I mean ArcheAge did it, I am sure ESO could make it work. Just a thought and I am not trying to derail this post but by doing this a Sorc could be more of a battlemage as people are trying to do and let people make there own synergy. If they are worried about it being complex well all the other ES games have been complex to build toons and find what we want why not allow us to do it here?

Crescent

Yeah I favor unlocking all the class lines, but my suspicion is most people would grab Bolt Escape and Mage's Wrath from Sorcerer and then just fill their class lines with the DK skills lol. Maybe grab Shadow Cloak too.

There would be some power creep and what really needs to be done is that abilities need to be balanced. Out of all the updates done in 5 months I've seen so LITTLE actual skill balancing, it's been really minor changes when things like sorcerer summons need major overhauls.

Stannum

Crescent wrote: »

The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.

carve-executener-liquid lightning-velo curse-??? energy overload
examle of great AoE sorc 2H synergy build
velo curse - delayed AoE dmg + liquid lightnint AoE DoT + carve spam (that recharge ulti for energy overload that recharge magika) may be active simultaniously and produse great AoE dmg
executione gives passive bonus vs low health & can be used for finishing
In fifth slot you can put bolt escape morphs for survival or rally for more dmg and heal

Slaunyeh

bellanca6561n wrote: »

I'm lost. It's a sorcerer. Every definition I can find says magic user. Give me one, just one definition of the word that has sword, blade, or bow in it.

Every class in the game is a "magic user". I'm not sure I understand your point.

guybrushtb16_ESO

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.

carve-executener-liquid lightning-velo curse-??? energy overload
examle of great AoE sorc 2H synergy build
velo curse - delayed AoE dmg + liquid lightnint AoE DoT + carve spam (that recharge ulti for energy overload that recharge magika) may be active simultaniously and produse great AoE dmg
executione gives passive bonus vs low health & can be used for finishing
In fifth slot you can put bolt escape morphs for survival or rally for more dmg and heal

Mashing random skills that share a property together is not synergy. This "build" you listed is in fact not synergistic at all, and would probably be beaten by simply spamming impulse alone already, without even taking into account actually synergistic skills like magelight or critical surge.

Tenret

yes Im sure that melee sorcers needs help....

youtube.com/watch?v=lVGuyFcd8nk&list=UU1WQszl8_NzDdmP-Gc8neCAhttp://

Stannum

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

The point is that while nightblades and DK's make plenty of use of their class skilsl because their class skills synergize with their weaponskills and melee builds, the sorcerer does not.

carve-executener-liquid lightning-velo curse-??? energy overload
examle of great AoE sorc 2H synergy build
velo curse - delayed AoE dmg + liquid lightnint AoE DoT + carve spam (that recharge ulti for energy overload that recharge magika) may be active simultaniously and produse great AoE dmg
executione gives passive bonus vs low health & can be used for finishing
In fifth slot you can put bolt escape morphs for survival or rally for more dmg and heal

Mashing random skills that share a property together is not synergy. This "build" you listed is in fact not synergistic at all, and would probably be beaten by simply spamming impulse alone already, without even taking into account actually synergistic skills like magelight or critical surge.

spamming impulse makes DPS for some time when you'll be out of magika
curse + lightning+ carve with rally makes even more DPS, heals and recharge ulti, then you will be out of magika\stamina you can swich to energy overload and coninue DPS recharging magika (if you have med armour stamina will be replenished too), then you can continue from the begining.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Crescent wrote: »

In order for Steel Tornado to be effective AoE, you need other people to get those mobs to that threshold. Because you don't have any respectable AoE before that point as a stamina build.

But again its the group synergy that matters, if you can make up by starting the fight with controls and finish it with powerfull execute why should it matter the skill lacks damage when the target is above 50%?

Crescent wrote: »

And Critical Surge IS a cost issue. With 1600 magicka and those passives you lister critical surge still takes around half of your magicka bar per cast. If you want to use any other spell like stormform or streak well good luck. And encase WILL run you OOM in 1-2 casts on top of Critical Surge.

As a melee sorcerer, Spellpower isn't something you need and you can totaly make up for the cost of your skills with high magicka regen by slotting 1 or 2 glyphs and wearing Warlock trinkets.

Crescent wrote: »

I honestly think you haven't bothered at all to test these spell costs yourself WITH 7/7 MEDIUM ARMOR AND NO LIGHT ARMOR PASSIVES. Because sorcerer class skill costs are absolutely hideously expensive, Daedric Mines and Encase being the biggest offenders.

My Sorcerer is inspired by Atropos Reaver build, I use full 7/7 Medium Armour with a mix of Nightmothers Gaze and Hunding Rage and I don't have any magicka issue, I can keep up my Critical Surge and Thundering Presence the whole fight and I switch to my bow and lock down ennemies with bombard when I need to root ennemies in place. If I still need a get away, Ball Lightning will move me forward and protect me against projectiles the time I need to recover.

So please don't assume things you clearly don't know about me because it gets out of the initial point of this post and we clearly don't have to start a flame wars about who's oppinion is better when the point was to discuss about synergies between melee skills and the sorcerer skill trees.

guybrushtb16_ESO

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

spamming impulse makes DPS for some time when you'll be out of magika
curse + lightning+ carve with rally makes even more DPS, heals and recharge ulti, then you will be out of magika\stamina you can swich to energy overload and coninue DPS recharging magika (if you have med armour stamina will be replenished too), then you can continue from the begining.

Curse is horrible for dps, so is lightning, and carve is ok at best, but still loses out to elemental ring by a fair margin. What's worse is that they don't synergise at all: you are drawing from different stat pools, different power stats and different crit stats, so you really shouldn't use those skills together.

Stannum

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Curse is horrible for dps, so is lightning, and carve is ok at best

They have low DPS separately, but they can overlap each other as you can spam carve while curse and LL are active.

Crescent

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Curse is horrible for dps, so is lightning, and carve is ok at best

They have low DPS separately, but they can overlap each other as you can spam carve while curse and LL are active.

For really bad damage. Seriously, unless someone casts the synergy on LL it tickles.

Garion

I would say the fault is entirely your own. You chose a class called Sorcerer and you are moaning that the class based skills require investment in mana when a Sorcerer is all about using SPELLS.

pls.

guybrushtb16_ESO

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Curse is horrible for dps, so is lightning, and carve is ok at best

They have low DPS separately, but they can overlap each other as you can spam carve while curse and LL are active.

Again: abilities scale with your max magicka and stamina, you can't gear for both. Similarly, carve uses weapon crit, whereas LL and curse use spell crit, which you can't have both of, the same is true for weapon power and spell power.

Curse is just bad, it's slow, it's aoe effect is unreliable and it's overall damage per cast is less then elemental ring, especially if you account for both the dot and the flame proc from ring.

Liquid Lightnig is bad, because it's aoe is small and the damage just isn't there. If things move out of the circle you wasted your cast entirely.

Carve is ok in stamina builds, but as laid out above, it doesn't share any of the stats you'd want for the other two. A carve you are not geared for at all is practically worthless.

eliisra

I actually wanted to make a battlemage archetype myself at some point. But my sorcerer was my first character, so I didn't know any better. I eventually understood the amazing flexibility of sorcerers, there's lighting staff or lighting staff, to choose from as dps.

But I think the upcoming buff to 2-Hander might make a mele sorc more interesting, especially with the buff to Cleave for AoE. That's really what you lack as sorc when you equip anything outside of Destruction Staff.

eventide03b14a_ESO

bellanca6561n wrote: »

I'm lost. It's a sorcerer. Every definition I can find says magic user. Give me one, just one definition of the word that has sword, blade, or bow in it.

Does every class have to be able to do every single thing?

Sorry if I sound like one of those dismissive jerks but I honestly am puzzled. If you could help me understand where the expectation came from that magic users should have pronounced melee weapon skills I'd both appreciate it and be much less confused.

I suppose there was Peter Jackson's interpretation of Gandalf using a sword in some scenes but I've always looked at character creation as a series of decisions, opting for one thing at the expense of another. I never saw them as Swiss Army Knives.

I have to agree with this. Each class has a certain advantage and it's silly to say that sorcerers don't. It's not coincidence that each weapon has 5 skills and an ultimate and so does your bar. If you wanted to go pure stamina you could use all 5 of those weapon abilities from the DW or SB. I don't know anyone that actually would of course but the option is there. When I play my nightblade for instance I go heavy on the stamina, equip at least 5 pieces of medium armor, and use at least two stamina abilities from the weapon I'm using (either DW or bow). The others are utility and maybe a magicka based attack.

@Crescent‌ I know your post is supposed to compare the passives and synergy of abilities with a stamina based build. The fact is that instead of solely augmenting your damage like the nightblade might, the sorcerer could get more benefit from defense; empowered ward, bound armaments, lightning form, those are all things that a nightblade can't come close to replicating in their skills lines. I don't really understand why you would choose a sorcerer to begin with if your goal was to be this awesome melee powerhouse.

I'm not trying to insult you, but I wouldn't create a templar and then complain that I don't have enough stealth passive synergy like the nightblade, or create a dragonknight and complain that I can't heal like a templar. I know you're mad that the build you imagined isn't working like you thought it should, but honestly any rational person would have come to the conclusion that a sorcerer isn't going to naturally be as good at melee as a nightblade or DK.

Crescent

Considering there are melee powerhouse mobs in game that are sorcerers, no I think it's you who hasn't played elder scrolls games. In every elder scrolls game melee sorcerers have been a thing.

So what if I get some defensive class skills that cost significant magicka to upkeep? In A group content PvE environment sorcerers are not brought in to tank (that would be DK and templars), I'm brought to DPS. So if my class isn't functioning competitively with a melee build, I get to complain.

I mean Nightblades moaned and cried about not having stamina builds until they got buffed through the roof, when they had the same option of going robe and staff and outputting 1300+ DPS. Why do you get to demand that your melee playstyle be supported when you have robes and staff options, yet when a sorcerer wants the same build variety you say I should have expected to be pigeonholed into robes and staves?

This is just outrageous, if my sorcerer is to be stuck with class skills that only synergize with a perceived role (ranged caster), then I demand both NB and DK's lose any synergy they can have with robes and staves, since dragonknights should obvious be using just plate and a 2hander and NB's only leather and dual wield/bow.

What a ridiculous argument and seriously this was the big mistake of dividing the schools/skills into 4 classes with a name, that people would start presuming about what each name should mean when in the elder scroll universe there was always flexibility.