Now that caps have been raised...

Varicite

Soulshine wrote: »

Context people. Context. I never said discussing this is irrelevant, good grief. Apparently reading comprehension is low today. I said that the entire system is being totally overhauled (meaning the current VR system) so asking for this now (buffing passives per OP) based on how things work now is rather irrelevant. Not the same thing by a long shot - yeesh.

Hmm. I don't think that you are coming across the way that you may feel you are.

This is a thread discussing proposed changes and potential problems regarding the racial boni after the changes.

Your reply was:

Soulshine wrote: »

Point is simple: the entire system is being totally overhauled so asking for this now based on how things work now is rather irrelevant.

That's not really a differing opinion, that's just saying "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it".

You're basically saying it's pointless to discuss because they may or may not account for this when the Champion system goes live, or at least that is how I (and apparently plenty of others) read this statement.

You are either responding to a request that was never made (asking for things to be changed right now), or simply putting more faith in the developers than many players have currently. I'm going to assume the latter.

Either way, it is exactly that lack of faith and the fact that gamebreaking bugs, exploits, and flat-out overlooked mechanics go live w/ every single update even though the vast majority of them are reported during the testing period that these concerns are being brought up now. Heck, some mechanics aren't even overlooked, confirmed to be working as intended by devs, and then called a "bug" later on, only after players have spent thousands of gold on doing exactly what the devs said was intended.

It's never too early to point out concerns; it can, however, be too late. I like to err on the side of caution, if I'm to err at all.

Soulshine

Varicite wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Context people. Context. I never said discussing this is irrelevant, good grief. Apparently reading comprehension is low today. I said that the entire system is being totally overhauled (meaning the current VR system) so asking for this now (buffing passives per OP) based on how things work now is rather irrelevant. Not the same thing by a long shot - yeesh.

Hmm. I don't think that you are coming across the way that you may feel you are.

This is a thread discussing proposed changes and potential problems regarding the racial boni after the changes.

Your reply was:

Soulshine wrote: »

Point is simple: the entire system is being totally overhauled so asking for this now based on how things work now is rather irrelevant.

That's not really a differing opinion, that's just saying "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it".

You're basically saying it's pointless to discuss because they may or may not account for this when the Champion system goes live, or at least that is how I (and apparently plenty of others) read this statement.

You are either responding to a request that was never made (asking for things to be changed right now), or simply putting more faith in the developers than many players have currently. I'm going to assume the latter.

Either way, it is exactly that lack of faith and the fact that gamebreaking bugs, exploits, and flat-out overlooked mechanics go live w/ every single update even though the vast majority of them are reported during the testing period that these concerns are being brought up now. Heck, some mechanics aren't even overlooked, confirmed to be working as intended by devs, and then called a "bug" later on, only after players have spent thousands of gold on doing exactly what the devs said was intended.

It's never too early to point out concerns; it can, however, be too late. I like to err on the side of caution, if I'm to err at all.

No, I am not saying it's pointless to discuss this, nor have I ever. I was addressing the OPs specific statements about buffing racials and putting that in the context of what we know (which admittedly is little and changing all the time....) about the coming champion system.

If you want to discuss how the racials might work in the future given those coming changes, then explain your view. I have already explained mine and why I think that buffing racials would not actually even work given their stated goals, let alone matter over time - most especially since ZoS is still not disclosing further info about how they intend to deal with them.

Varicite

Soulshine wrote: »

If you want to discuss how the racials might work in the future given those coming changes, then explain your view.

This is what the thread is about, though... All you've done is argue against some arbitrary argument that you, yourself, seem to have introduced, which is about changing racials in the current VR environment.

Nobody was talking about that at all.

And I'm pretty sure I already explained my view, which is in agreement w/ the OP's concern that w/ the removal of caps, the diminishing returns that currently keep racial stat boni from being "too good" will no longer exist.

Currently, an Imperial (just for example's sake) may have a 22% stat bonus over other races, but because of soft and hard caps, generally will not actually have 12% more health than another race, etc.

W/ the proposed changes, they will no longer have any sort of ceiling keeping them in-line w/ the more average health numbers of races who do not boast such a hefty racial bonus.

Instead, they will simply be 22% better stat-wise than any race w/out stat boni, while the races who do not have large stat boni generally do not have other boni that can bridge such a large gap.

I personally don't believe it to be a huge issue; just something to think about and hopefully bring to dev attention so that they may also be aware that the playerbase might perceive this to encroach upon "unfairness".

Also, I think the OP just wanted to toss around a few fun ideas for potential racial boni.

In which case, I suppose I'll throw mine into the pool as well:

Argonian Passives:

Slippery Scales - Increases enemy miss chance by 4/8%. Miss chance is increased in Rainy weather.

Adaptability (Cold-Blooded?) - Reduces subsequent damage taken from fire / ice effects by 2/4/6%.

I dunno, it's been a long day. : P

Soulshine

I merely pointed out the obvious lack of context in the OP original statement about "buffing racials". If you or others see that as arbitrary arguing, ok. Doesn't change the issue any. That being, racials are a big unknown right now in the new system and as such, my view is that they are not likely to get buffed given the stated objectives from ZoS about the new passives coming with the champion system.

Leeric

What he is saying that the champion system will apply across all toons, so you don't like your race? Make a new toon, your race isn't good enough at something? Make your champions points focus on that. I think going in and significantly changing race passives is a terrible decision and would cause more problems than it solves. A fine tweaking might be okay but anything beyond that would cause me and many others to probably toss in the towel.

Wreuntzylla

Make a new toon? I'm glad at least someone has so much leisure time that they are able to casually suggest such a thing!