Crafting Quests - Solo Player Endgame

MikeBob

babylon wrote: »

To give solo players an endgame with time, involvement and gear equivalent to grouped players endgame (time, involvement and gear), how about making crafting quests where you have to go through a series of quests and bosses designed to be challenging for a solo player (no grouping allowed in these quests).

Have them a series of quests and trials and bosses at the end of each series, which gives chances to drop a researchable item for a special crafted set piece, that is equivalent, but different, to set items found by grouped players in their dungeons.

Have several types of new sets to learn to make.

Each time you run through one of these quest series you get to go toe-to-toe with the end boss who might drop the item you need to research to learn how to make a particular set piece. Each series could focus on a part of the body - eg head item, or leg item, or shoulder item, or weapon, or offhand, and so on.

For example you run through a series of quests with an end boss to learn how to make the head piece for a set item. The boss at the end may or may not drop the piece you need to learn for a certain set. He has a chance to drop the research piece for all set items for that part of the body, but may or may not drop the research piece you are still needing. You might need to do these quests several times to get the research item you need for a particular set. Then you'd need to take time to research that piece.

This way the solo player can make gear equivalent to the endgame gear of other players who group, and they have had to invest time and effort to learn these pieces.

The time it takes should be such that only a real solo player will be able to go through this, so solo players will have their own path to an equivalent endgame with time and effort and reward for doing all this.

Awesome stuff. Count me in!

AlexDougherty

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

There are crafting quests coming with Update 5 which will require the player to craft six blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking items and deliver them to Belkarth in Craglorn.

It would be cool if we had to deliver the items to low level players.

Nice Idea, but then you have problems, firstly they have to be logged on, Then you have to find them, and they have to respond to you. I personally would be annoyed if I failed a quest after chasing down a player who then just refuses to respond.

Get the ESO equivalent of a van and some candy or puppies, boom; problem solved. Those lowbies will come running.

You so funny.

No genuinely I found that funny, so I gave you a LOL (I use them to say people are funny, like how they should be used).

babylon

LonePirate wrote: »

There are crafting quests coming with Update 5 which will require the player to craft six blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking items and deliver them to Belkarth in Craglorn.

That's a sideline activity. What I'm proposing is a real endgame activity that takes time and focus and dedication.

Something that makes crafting current with other endgame gear at all times, because the player seeking those set items is dedicating their time and effort.

The number of sets can be increased as time goes on, so this activity would always be a viable endgame activity for solo players, just as dungeon grinding or pvp grinding stays current, because the player would always have more items to find so they can research those new sets.

babylon

Alright keeping this open for discussion.

Trying to do a rough workup on how they could set up a series of quests to cover all crafting types (woodworker + blacksmith + clothier + enchanter + alchemist + provisioner) so they all go through about the same amount of quests to get new gear researched and new recipes/potions/enchantments learned. Perhaps make it so for provisioners/alchemists/enchanters to learn the new recipes/potions/enchantment several drops are needed before you can learn to make that recipe or enchantment, so that you need several items, making that type of crafter go through around the same number of quests with end bosses as the armour and weapon crafters.

Was thinking maybe split these quest series up into the basics (magicka/health/stamina) and each of those were a quest series with a boss at the end, and each of those end bosses would have a chance to drop something for that crafter to learn, whether it's a new recipe or a new piece of research to learn.

magicka quest series =
+ magicka type sets (clothier + blacksmith + woodworker)
+ magicka/magicka regen (alchemy + provisioning)
+ jewellery enchants (enchanter)

health quest series =
+ health type sets (clothier + blacksmith + woodworker)
+ health/health regen (alchemy + provisioning)
+ armour enchants (enchanter)

stamina quest series =
+ stamina type sets (clothier + blacksmith + woodworker)
+ stamina/stamina regen (alchemy + provisioning)
+ weapon enchants (enchanter)

And so on. Obviously it's up to ZOS to theme them any way they want, but if we can just try to offer up more suggestions and develop the idea further I think it will be helpful.

AlexDougherty

babylon wrote: »

Alright keeping this open for discussion.

Trying to do a rough workup on how they could set up a series of quests to cover all crafting types (woodworker + blacksmith + clothier + enchanter + alchemist + provisioner) so they all go through about the same amount of quests to get new gear researched and new recipes/potions/enchantments learned. Perhaps make it so for provisioners/alchemists/enchanters to learn the new recipes/potions/enchantment several drops are needed before you can learn to make that recipe or enchantment, so that you need several items, making that type of crafter go through around the same number of quests with end bosses as the armour and weapon crafters.

Was thinking maybe split these quest series up into the basics (magicka/health/stamina) and each of those were a quest series with a boss at the end, and each of those end bosses would have a chance to drop something for that crafter to learn, whether it's a new recipe or a new piece of research to learn.

magicka quest series =
+ magicka type sets (clothier + blacksmith + woodworker)
+ magicka/magicka regen (alchemy + provisioning)
+ jewellery enchants (enchanter)

health quest series =
+ health type sets (clothier + blacksmith + woodworker)
+ health/health regen (alchemy + provisioning)
+ armour enchants (enchanter)

stamina quest series =
+ stamina type sets (clothier + blacksmith + woodworker)
+ stamina/stamina regen (alchemy + provisioning)
+ weapon enchants (enchanter)

And so on. Obviously it's up to ZOS to theme them any way they want, but if we can just try to offer up more suggestions and develop the idea further I think it will be helpful.

I like that one too. Basically anything that will add more depth to the game gets me thumbs up.

Oldtimer209

Some of these ideas are quite good. I don't know if it will matter at this point...

Audigy

babylon wrote: »

To give solo players an endgame with time, involvement and gear equivalent to grouped players endgame (time, involvement and gear), how about making crafting quests where you have to go through a series of quests and bosses designed to be challenging for a solo player (no grouping allowed in these quests).

Have them a series of quests and trials and bosses at the end of each series, which gives chances to drop a researchable item for a special crafted set piece, that is equivalent, but different, to set items found by grouped players in their dungeons.

Have several types of new sets to learn to make.

Each time you run through one of these quest series you get to go toe-to-toe with the end boss who might drop the item you need to research to learn how to make a particular set piece. Each series could focus on a part of the body - eg head item, or leg item, or shoulder item, or weapon, or offhand, and so on.

For example you run through a series of quests with an end boss to learn how to make the head piece for a set item. The boss at the end may or may not drop the piece you need to learn for a certain set. He has a chance to drop the research piece for all set items for that part of the body, but may or may not drop the research piece you are still needing. You might need to do these quests several times to get the research item you need for a particular set. Then you'd need to take time to research that piece.

This way the solo player can make gear equivalent to the endgame gear of other players who group, and they have had to invest time and effort to learn these pieces.

The time it takes should be such that only a real solo player will be able to go through this, so solo players will have their own path to an equivalent endgame with time and effort and reward for doing all this.

Wont work sadly.

Many MMOs tried that like Blizz at Vanilla and sadly those who are unable to play good will cry until its nerfed or totally removed from the game.

Just look how many cried so that the VR zones, guild quests or story lines were nerfed.

The same thing would happen with your crafting quests, people would try it once and if they fail they come here and cry so that it gets removed.

I also don't find any satisfaction in repeating stuff all the time. Quests or dungeons should be a one time thing and not something you grind for weeks to get a specific drop.

babylon

Hoping to get some good feedback on this.

Varicite

Drazhar14 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

There are crafting quests coming with Update 5 which will require the player to craft six blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking items and deliver them to Belkarth in Craglorn.

It would be cool if we had to deliver the items to low level players.

Feel free to deliver your items to me, if you like. : )

Soloeus

I would like to tap into the market of group players with my crafting expertise. I would like to be able to invest time into Crafting to produce expensive things I can sell them. Things that would bore the crap out of them that they refuse to do, that a player like me wants to do, and be rewarded properly for.

Varicite

Soloeus wrote: »

I would like to tap into the market of group players with my crafting expertise. I would like to be able to invest time into Crafting to produce expensive things I can sell them. Things that would bore the crap out of them that they refuse to do, that a player like me wants to do, and be rewarded properly for.

I feel like they intend for you to do this kind of thing on your own.

I'm not sure how they would really implement a mechanic for you to do this outside of some sort of bulletin board request system.

Soloeus

Varicite wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

I would like to tap into the market of group players with my crafting expertise. I would like to be able to invest time into Crafting to produce expensive things I can sell them. Things that would bore the crap out of them that they refuse to do, that a player like me wants to do, and be rewarded properly for.

I feel like they intend for you to do this kind of thing on your own.

I'm not sure how they would really implement a mechanic for you to do this outside of some sort of bulletin board request system.

Without reward?

AoEnwyr

This is a well thought out idea. As a Master Crafter, regardless of whether I am into group content or not, I would happily do something like this to craft high level, unique gear.

I don't buy into the "It's an MMO so you must play with other people". I've played MMO's before and been quite active in group content but there are times when I want to chill doing my own thing with an "end game character" or with maybe one other person. At this stage there is nothing to facilitate this, it is all group content.

The main social aspect for me in ESO is being in a guild and chatting to other people, the actual group content isn't that inviting at the moment.

Varicite

Soloeus wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

I would like to tap into the market of group players with my crafting expertise. I would like to be able to invest time into Crafting to produce expensive things I can sell them. Things that would bore the crap out of them that they refuse to do, that a player like me wants to do, and be rewarded properly for.

I feel like they intend for you to do this kind of thing on your own.

I'm not sure how they would really implement a mechanic for you to do this outside of some sort of bulletin board request system.

Without reward?

You just said that you wanted to produce expensive things that you can sell them.

How is profit not a reward? o_O

Soloeus

1. NPC's would give a quest. The quest would be to fulfill an order in the likeness 20 Staves. Once completed, it would want you to make 20, then 30, 40, 50. Once you complete 50, the "Craft 50" becomes a Daily Quest.

2. The NPC would give as a reward Purple/Gold Tempers, Rare Crafting Materials in the likeness of Nirncrux, and Gear made of Nirncrux or other rare traits as they are released. I would advise against releasing a whole bunch of "just because" traits and trait sets to force people to keep ranks invested into research. That is a cheap petty Skill Point nerf.

3. There could be an additional Temper Upgrade added, Silver. Silver Tempers would come only from the Complete 50 Quest. Gold Tempers could also become available only as a Quest Reward from the Complete 50 quest. This makes the tempers harder to obtain, more valuable, and rewarding.

I would also remove Gold Tempers (and Silver) from Hirelings, the only way to obtain them is through repeatable Daily quests. So you can find Purple Tempers in group content from decon gear, or from hirelings. Blue/Green common out in the world. Then, to get Gold (or silver) you would have to go one step further into dedicated crafting and it would be a time sink.

I for one, would love this and would spend a lot of time pursuing these quests to create (for a price, of course) the best gear in the game.

babylon

Needs some more discussion if we're ever going to see a real endgame for solo players/crafters.

babylon

Again let's get this moving. ZOS are looking at ways to keep crafting current, and I reckon this is it. Last thing we need is them making the mistake of tying crafting into grouping activities. Solo players endgame + crafting makes sense.

babylon

Speak up now.

babylon

K last attempt to get interest and discussion.

helediron

I don't think it is realistic to wait content just for crafting endgame, while there is need for general solo end content. Crafting could be there as a side quest as e.g. nirnhoned end reward is in upper Craglorn.
In fact the current nirncrux fever is something i like. Now when enchanting got easy, there is still something difficult and time consuming for a maxed crafter.

Phantax

RIFT had daily/weekly crafting quests. They added to the game overall and the faction based ones did make you feel like you were doing something for your side.
Daily quests (crafting or any type) should have been in the game from the start. omitting this was just another failure to the ESO launch list !

babylon

helediron wrote: »

nirncrux

Group dungeon grinders have an endgame that comes with gear. Pvp grinders have an endgame that comes with gear. It doesn't make sense to tie in crafting to either of those activities.

It makes the most sense to tie in crafting with a solo player endgame, so that this style of play has endgame gear, and a reason to have gear that is equivalent with other endgame gears (because of the effort and time involved).

In this way, all play styles have an endgame, and because of this each can switch between the other if they choose. Making crafting tie in with solo player endgame is the way to go here to make that third playstyle have both an endgame and gear same as pvp grinders and dungeon grinders.

Chuggernaut

I love this idea. I've been wanting a way to craft the currently uncraftable equipment be it either a solo quest like you described or breaking down x amount of a set item to learn how to make it.

Phantax

babylon wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

nirncrux

Group dungeon grinders have an endgame that comes with gear. Pvp grinders have an endgame that comes with gear. It doesn't make sense to tie in crafting to either of those activities.

It makes the most sense to tie in crafting with a solo player endgame, so that this style of play has endgame gear, and a reason to have gear that is equivalent with other endgame gears (because of the effort and time involved).

In this way, all play styles have an endgame, and because of this each can switch between the other if they choose. Making crafting tie in with solo player endgame is the way to go here to make that third playstyle have both an endgame and gear same as pvp grinders and dungeon grinders.

So those people like myself who treat crafting as a main part of their game should not be allowed to craft PvP gear if they don't PvP and unable to craft Group Content level gear if they don't participate in group content ?

This one thinks you erect the spine of talking crap !
Crafting was intended to be and advertised as a big part of the whole ESO system. The only people who should be able to make the high end gear is people who have spent time, gold and effort into mastering their crafting skills !
Crafting as a solo endgame type thing? leave it out !

babylon

Phantax wrote: »

You're free to choose how you want to play. If you don't put in the effort to dungeon grinding you don't get the gear. Go complain there.

If you don't put in the effort to pvp grinding you don't get the gear and you don't get the skills. Go complain there.

If you don't put in the effort to solo endgame crafting quests you don't get the gear. Your complaint is noted.

LonePirate

Phantax wrote: »

Daily quests (crafting or any type) should have been in the game from the start. omitting this was just another failure to the ESO launch list !

Daily quests have existed in Cyrodiil since well before the game's official launch. People may not like relegation of these quests to Cyrodiil and not to the other zones; but the quests are in the game so ZOS did not fail in this regard. Yes, the PVE zones should have had some similar quests, though.

babylon

Phantax wrote: »

The only people who should be able to make the high end gear is people who have spent time, gold and effort into mastering their crafting skills !

Also I think you need to read the OP, the whole point is of crafters mastering crafting through time and effort, it isn't anything to do with a quest giving them magical maxed skills. The quest part is just giving endgame solo players and crafters a reason to require top level crafted gear, because the combat part of this will make it necessary.

This is why the solo player endgame + questing/boss kill + crafted gear all ties in together.

helediron

@babylon, don't get me wrong, i like the idea very much. Crafting has inherently lots of solo playing. I can see the synergy.

I totally agree that crafting end game should take time and effort. At some point we should get distinguished from hobby crafters (yeah, elitist, completionist, i confess). I mentioned nirncruxes because they are a step to right direction. They are hard to find, and getting them all is a big effort. But it's not like the super rare recipes effort, which was merely just a lottery. This effort is something i can plan ahead, and i believe only small percentge of players is willing to do.

babylon

helediron wrote: »

@babylon, don't get me wrong, i like the idea very much. Crafting has inherently lots of solo playing. I can see the synergy.

I totally agree that crafting end game should take time and effort. At some point we should get distinguished from hobby crafters (yeah, elitist, completionist, i confess). I mentioned nirncruxes because they are a step to right direction. They are hard to find, and getting them all is a big effort. But it's not like the super rare recipes effort, which was merely just a lottery. This effort is something i can plan ahead, and i believe only small percentge of players is willing to do.

Yes and going even a step further in the right direction would be to make crafting not just a grind, but an interesting series of events tied into the solo player endgame. Right now the nirncrux is just a mindless grind of running around a circuit mining nodes.

Turning that push to make crafting relevant into a series of quests with an endboss who is able to drop item(s) needed to learn further crafting recipes/items for sets would have to be the ideal way to keep crafted items relevant at endgame level (equivalent to any set item found in dungeon grinding or pvp grinding) so that all types of players would be able to switch between playstyles, because the gear they wear is up to standard in the next situation, good enough to let them hold their own as they make their way through the other playstyle's endgame.

The gear is equivalent because the challenge requires it, and the effort expended deserves it, so it's earned, just like all the other playstyles already catered for gear-wise.

Much more interesting (and challenging, and more involved) than mindlessly running around in circles. Something worthy of crafting, and something worthy of our time and effort.

MikeBob

babylon wrote: »

Again let's get this moving. (...)

Okay...

babylon wrote: »

(...) ZOS are looking at ways to keep crafting current (...)

I sincerely hope this is true - it would mean (in my view) that they're bound to give some serious consideration to at least some of the options you've put forth in this thread.

(Again - I really that they do - you've presented some really groovy stuff here.)

babylon wrote: »

(...) Last thing we need is them making the mistake of tying crafting into grouping activities. (...)

They tried doing this in EQ2 and it pretty much didn't pan out. The idea was to put a full group of crafters together (one crafter from each crafting discipline) in an instance for a crafting quest/grind.

Instead of grouping for the quests though, crafting bums (like me) discovered that it was actually possible to solo all the work, and that way of doing it became pretty popular with most of the crafting community.

The dailies took a lot longer to complete solo, but it was challenging (and fun) and when you got it all done - if you were lucky (the rewards were randomized) - the payoffs could be really nice.

(It's been quite awhile since I went back, so I don't know if it's still the same these days.)

babylon wrote: »

(...) Solo players endgame + crafting makes sense.

Agreed.

Ultimately though, I believe the crafting + endgame ideas you've shared here, if implemented properly, could (and would) really benefit everyone who plays ESO (not just soloers).

Thanks for the time/effort you've put into presenting your ideas, babylon.