Should Roots be considered Crowd Control?

david.haypreub18_ESO

One thing that ESO does differently than many MMOs is that it does not consider a root to be Crowd Control. This means that things like Talons, for example, can be spammed and even if you roll out of it, you can be immediately re-Taloned because there is no immunity timer. This confuses a lot of people who think that things like Break Free will help with roots, and in some ways makes 'soft CC' like roots harder to deal with than 'hard CC' like stuns/knockdowns etc.

Personally, I think roots are a form of CC and should be treated as such, but I am interested to see if I am in the minority or the majority. What do you think?

GoatKnuckle

Does a bear .... Nevermind.

Skwor

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

There is no doubt a root is crowd control, especially since talons is AOE, you know AOE = hit the crowd O.o

Make talon single target and I may agree but any root that is AOE has no business being excluded from the other crowd control counters.

GoatKnuckle

Is it crowd control? I think it is ... no, wait .. maybe it's not. Okay, it is.

No, it's only crowd control if it's AOE .. single target .. different story. What the hell...

What is this about?

Look ... roots/snares/stuns/pulling tails of kittens .. .whatever .. is crowd control. But let's not battle over semantics.

This poll should really be asking, "Who thinks Dark Talons should have an immunity timer on it, because I can't roll away and if I do .. they cast it again! OMG. Whatever shall I do?"

The Goat thinks you should take this post with a grain of salt. Only a grain, though.

Oh, I'm just kidding. I'm all on board for giving Dark Talons an immunity timer. Let's be fair. Will 10 minutes be long enough?

Soloeus

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Encase does count as crowd control, Talons is the one that doesn't.

GoatKnuckle

Soloeus wrote: »

Encase does count as crowd control, Talons is the one that doesn't.

Hmm .. I'm able to lock down mobs with encase again after the effect wears off. There doesn't seem to be an immunity timer on it.

Do these skills act differently in PVE vs PVP?

Varicite

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

Roots and snares shouldn't count as crowd control, as they do not inhibit you from playing your character outside of temporary movement loss.

You can still block, attack, use skills, etc.

This is why dodge rolling is so much cheaper than Break Free.

Thatusernameistaken

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Only in this mess of a MMO is rooting not crowd control. These Dev's...lol

Stratti

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

Let me tell you I am not a PvP but am a dk tank with fire Mage off spec so not too bad form PvP.

I played last night first time seriously at v14. It was lame . Global CC immunity is stupid and frankly this post and poll is self serving . With all that is wrong with the game and the failure of update 4 to get people back into it I wouldn't be concerned

Or maybe learn to dodge roll instead of crying on the forums for Devs to make it easier for you to tunnel.

tplink3r1

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

no.

Francescolg

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Funny thing is that Talons (skill) always reapplies whilst other AE-roots do not, for example the bow skill with cone ae-root..!
It is everything else than fair to have some classes that can chain-root you.. If Devs would really be interested in balance, this would've been fixed one month after release and they didn't,... so make your conclusions.., and stay rooted

The argument with roll-dodge is invalid due to not having enough stamina after X Talons.. You won't believe that DKs spam it? You haven't been in Cyrondil enough time..
I came to the conclusion that some devs really have no clue what and how "fair" pvp works, no clue at all..!

Varicite

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

Thatusernameistaken wrote: »

Only in this mess of a MMO is rooting not crowd control. These Dev's...lol

And WoW. And SWTOR. I could go on to list a bunch of games that don't even have CC immunity to crowd control, as well.

If you are getting rooted as soon as you dodge roll, you may want to actually look where you are dodge rolling (ie: not INTO the DK). Talons has a teensy tiny radius. Encase has a pretty narrow radius.

No other root in the game lasts longer than 2 seconds, to my knowledge. Not even worth dodge rolling out of those, imo.

Don't want to waste your stamina dodge rolling? Everybody in the game has access to Purge and its morphs.

/shrug

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Soloeus wrote: »

Encase does count as crowd control, Talons is the one that doesn't.

Are you saying that you can Break Free of encase? I haven't used it enough on my Sorc to tell.

Varicite

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

Encase does count as crowd control, Talons is the one that doesn't.

Are you saying that you can Break Free of encase? I haven't used it enough on my Sorc to tell.

It doesn't matter, because it's not true. : P

He may have meant Rune Prison, though.

Probitas

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Yes, when you control movement, you are controlling the target.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

I am surprised by how clear the results are; it's not really even close.

AssaultLemming

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

There are really three kinds of what I would consider cc.

1. Prevents movement and casting:
2. Prevents casting but not movement
3. Prevents movement but not casting

All of them should be considered crowd control, but probably on different timers.

Not snare though as it only limits your movement doesn't prevent it.

heyguyslol

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Francescolg wrote: »

Funny thing is that Talons (skill) always reapplies whilst other AE-roots do not, for example the bow skill with cone ae-root..!
It is everything else than fair to have some classes that can chain-root you.. If Devs would really be interested in balance, this would've been fixed one month after release and they didn't,... so make your conclusions.., and stay rooted

The argument with roll-dodge is invalid due to not having enough stamina after X Talons.. You won't believe that DKs spam it? You haven't been in Cyrondil enough time..
I came to the conclusion that some devs really have no clue what and how "fair" pvp works, no clue at all..!

When I break free from stampede I have been re-rooted immediately even after using break free. This should not be happening. When I break free from a rooted stampede I should have cc immunity for a short duration. gg zos devs.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

There was an interesting comment from ZOS during the guild summit, which might relate to this. Someone asked the question,

What about CC stacking and the differentiation between a hard CC and a soft CC? Why is it that you can rotate short-duration CCs so effectively like alternating between Streak and Crystal Fragments?

The response was this:

We are looking at making sure that everything is applying CC immunity in the way that you would expect, and it’s likely that some effects will need to have additional immunities applied to them.

So perhaps there is hope after all.

Armitas

I'm still formulating an opinion on this but I do believe that one should be able to use "break free" on talons and it give that player an immunity.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Why would an AoE root not be considered crowd control? AoE=Crowd and root=Control. Seems like a pretty basic concept to me.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

I hope ZOS is considering the issue. It really seems like 'soft CC' is better than hard CC because soft CC can be spammed without any immunity. Spammable CC with no immunity is really a killer in any game.

neiljwd

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

It's SO annoying. So yeah.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

The question is wrong. Should soft cc be breakable. The way it works seems fine to me. Immovable should only effect hard cc, even if they need to change the name so people dont QQ over the irony of the name.

jelliedsoup

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

The question is wrong. Should soft cc be breakable. The way it works seems fine to me. Immovable should only effect hard cc, even if they need to change the name so people dont QQ over the irony of the name.

I knew that I would disagree with your view. At least you're consistent.

SRIBES

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

It doesn't prevent them from using abilities so no.
Keep in mind this would mean if it was CC nbs cripple would mean they have CC immunity. If you are rooted you can still easily acsess all of your abilites, and even purge it which you can not to normal stuns or CCs. Sorcerers and nightblades can even streak and ambush in it. I think this is just an idea to look at how to nerf DK. Which in my opinion is not a good nerf. If we're nerfing DK we need to look at things such ass battle roar and the amount of sustain draw essence and flame lash gives that can keep a dragonknight at almost full magika.

Redlag

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Stratti wrote: »

Let me tell you I am not a PvP but am a dk tank with fire Mage off spec so not too bad form PvP.

I played last night first time seriously at v14. It was lame . Global CC immunity is stupid and frankly this post and poll is self serving . With all that is wrong with the game and the failure of update 4 to get people back into it I wouldn't be concerned

Or maybe learn to dodge roll instead of crying on the forums for Devs to make it easier for you to tunnel.

Maybe that's why we want it crowd control, because we know how to dodge roll and you know how to press the button again to reapply it. Which means what? You're eating my stamina while you're lava whipping me and having a blast.

Talking about self serving.. Hehe just learn to play and let me keep you in a constant root. Oh ya, don't like DKs don't let them stand next to you... hehe, charge, talons, charge, talons, charge, talon, stamina gone lava whip, lava whip, lave whip...

This guy is right. We should lrn2play.

Soulshine

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

The issue as I see it is that what maskarades around here for CC in this game is not any type of it I have ever used that was effective. There is little to no use for it in most situations, being as how the game seems to have almost completely ignored its impact - which can be huge when done right. Dungeons would have been way more interesting if proper CC tactics had been considered during their development as opposed to making everything a drodge-roll out of some goofy effect, usually fire.

I played two classes as mains that were primary CC dealers in another game for many years - no, it was not WoW - and in that setting my very survival in solo play (or conversely the survival of my group in raids) often depended on my job as CC.

Roots are always used to trip up and hold off melee fighters since - unlike here in ESO - they did not have a ranged attack to swap to; so of course CC roots in THIS game are not really CC - that doesn't mean they should not be.

Still even here were roots barely mean anything, the very fact that you are having to purge or engage your enemy in a manner you did not have in mind to do at that moment by casting something different to counter even a 2 second root, still fits the literal definition of the CC concept: you are being controlled by something else, even if briefly, and forced to do something you would not have otherwise done at that moment.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes, Roots should be considered Crowd Control

Here's another fun fact: while roots are not considered CC, the Templar ability Eclipse is considered CC. Puzzle me that one.

m12d12_ESO

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

Bull ----Just my humble opinion -- Me, we the Dk's that use talon's it cant spam forever - we are controlled by that pesky little magic gauge....

Also our talons is no more "annoying" that when a NightBlade or Scorcer has u in the clutches spamming a way --- I have been the recipient of many of them AND we CANT ROLL away from those !!!!

TequilaFire

No, Roots should not be considered Crowd Control.

Another disguised nerf DK thread.
Hell my talons doesn't even fire right half the time anymore.
This all goes back to the fact that PvP and PvE skills should be separated so the
PvP QQ stops.