How Class Skills Should Be Scaled
Rodario
✭✭✭✭✭
There have been a great many posts suggesting class skills should be scaled off of the higher stat to make the system fairer towards non-magicka builds.
I always felt that there was something missing from those suggestions and today, while reading another thread about the issue, I had an idea that I believe deserves its own thread.
While I agree class skills should not only use magicka for scaling, I believe there's a better solution than using the higher stat for scaling.
How about class skills scaling off of a combination of magicka and stamina?
{As this is only about the concept, imagine weapon/spell damage modifiers apply to stamina/magicka instead. Of course it would be implemented as a combination formula of weapon and spell damage, but things would get too complicated for this thread.}
In detail:
Index:
m - total magicka
bm - base magicka
s - total stamina
bs - base stamina
x - number class skills use for scaling
Currently:
m=x
{Total magicka determines class skill effect values}
Problem: Only pure magicka builds can reap the full benefits of class skills.
Scaling off of the higher stat:
x=IF(s>m;s;m)
{Whichever number is higher, stamina or magicka, determines class skill effect values}
Problem: Pure stamina builds would be en par with pure magicka builds (in terms of class skill damage), but hybrid builds would still be left out in the cold.
My proposed formula:
m+(s-bs)=x
{Base amount plus any investments in either stamina or magicka determines class skill effect values. Note that this way x is the same amount regardless of how resources have been allocated}
For someone who puts everything in magicka, nothing would change.
For someone who puts everything in stamina, this would have the same effect as scaling off of the higher stat.
Hybrid builds would get the same benefits from the change as pure stamina builds.
What do you guys think?
EDIT: Added some clarifications in {}.
Edited by Rodario on October 7, 2014 9:10PM I always felt that there was something missing from those suggestions and today, while reading another thread about the issue, I had an idea that I believe deserves its own thread.
While I agree class skills should not only use magicka for scaling, I believe there's a better solution than using the higher stat for scaling.
How about class skills scaling off of a combination of magicka and stamina?
{As this is only about the concept, imagine weapon/spell damage modifiers apply to stamina/magicka instead. Of course it would be implemented as a combination formula of weapon and spell damage, but things would get too complicated for this thread.}
In detail:
Index:
m - total magicka
bm - base magicka
s - total stamina
bs - base stamina
x - number class skills use for scaling
Currently:
m=x
{Total magicka determines class skill effect values}
Problem: Only pure magicka builds can reap the full benefits of class skills.
Scaling off of the higher stat:
x=IF(s>m;s;m)
{Whichever number is higher, stamina or magicka, determines class skill effect values}
Problem: Pure stamina builds would be en par with pure magicka builds (in terms of class skill damage), but hybrid builds would still be left out in the cold.
My proposed formula:
m+(s-bs)=x
{Base amount plus any investments in either stamina or magicka determines class skill effect values. Note that this way x is the same amount regardless of how resources have been allocated}
For someone who puts everything in magicka, nothing would change.
For someone who puts everything in stamina, this would have the same effect as scaling off of the higher stat.
Hybrid builds would get the same benefits from the change as pure stamina builds.
What do you guys think?
EDIT: Added some clarifications in {}.
Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}
{EU/DC}
7
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Gillysan✭✭✭✭No.
Skills, effects, should scale off the points invested in the attributes. Also I think you are misreading. I think people are saying skills should scale off the resource they use, i.e. stamina skill use the stamina points, health skills (not sure they put anything in that scales off health, maybe a smattering), etc.
Some skills already do this but the tooltips are poorly written leading to confusion.Crafting Services http://tinyurl.com/GillysansStore Organizational Guide http://tinyurl.com/GillysansEnchanterLeveling
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Rodario✭✭✭✭✭No.
Skills, effects, should scale off the points invested in the attributes.
So magicka or stamina enchants should have no effect on skills?Also I think you are misreading. I think people are saying skills should scale off the resource they use, i.e. stamina skill use the stamina points, health skills (not sure they put anything in that scales off health, maybe a smattering), etc.
Some skills already do this but the tooltips are poorly written leading to confusion.
Class skills all use magicka, no matter what sort of damage they cause, that's why they all scale with magicka. What people are suggesting is if your stamina is higher than your magicka, the skill should scale with stamina.
What I'm suggesting is they scale with a combination of both, so hybrid builds can also benefit.Edited by Rodario on September 24, 2014 1:48PMVictoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}1 -
TeiVII✭Bumping for potential dev comments/notice, and to show my support for this concept. Hybrid builds should get just as much love as pure stamina/magicka builds, no questions asked.2 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭*shrug*
I'm fine with spells scaling off magica, and non-spells scaling off stamina.
All class skills are simply spells. Can't think of a one that actually uses the weapon I'm holding.Achievements Suck0 -
I'd at least like to see such a formula in action to test it out myself, maybe on a PTS. Otherwise, weather or not this would actually work out better than the current system is difficult to discern.1
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Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Does this counts for all weapons also?All world skills? And then for all the new skill lines also?
What would be solution to the fact that dodge/sprint... all cost stamina but never magicka?
If you are going to make class skills drain from either source , then everything should drain from either source."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭AshySamurai wrote: »
@AshySamurai
Yeah, I used excel's logical structure for some reason. It's IF(s>m);THEN (s); ELSE (m).Edited by Rodario on September 25, 2014 7:11AMVictoria Lux - Templar Tank
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Rodario✭✭✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Does this counts for all weapons also?All world skills? And then for all the new skill lines also?
What would be solution to the fact that dodge/sprint... all cost stamina but never magicka?
If you are going to make class skills drain from either source , then everything should drain from either source.
I'm sorry, there seems to be a misunderstanding @Nox_Aeterna, this is not about which resource is expended when using a skill, but which pool determines an ability's damage (or other effects).
Class skills draining magicka is fine with me, because if you're heavily invested in stamina, chances are you also have stamina-using abilities on your bar, aside from class skills. Just as magicka characters will have other magicka using skills that take away from the same pool as class skills.Edited by Rodario on September 25, 2014 7:16AMVictoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}0 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭*shrug*
I'm fine with spells scaling off magica, and non-spells scaling off stamina.
All class skills are simply spells. Can't think of a one that actually uses the weapon I'm holding.
The issue though @GnatB , is that people of the same class who have the same amount of resources invested should get the same benefit from class skills, no matter if they built their character for magic damage (staves) or physical damage, or a mix thereof.
Also, there are class skills that are decidedly physical in nature, even if they don't use the exact weapon you're wielding (whirldwind, thrown dagger, any spear skill come to mind).Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}1 -
Mendoze✭✭✭Hmmm, isn't
bm+(m-bm)+(s-bs)=x
same as
m + (s-bs).
Also I think your idea just favours hybrid builds, because pure builds have diminishing returns of going pure magicka/stamina over softcap. I think it's really weird if hybrid builds do more damage than pure builds even they are not specializing.Edited by Mendoze on September 25, 2014 9:25AM1 -
KenjiJU✭✭✭^ Softcaps were in place as a means to keep players from stacking (stat-king) and be more experimental. Though that didn't work out so well.
I'm not sure this is the best idea either, because if everything scaled perfectly then we're almost taking out the differences everywhere outside of high hp builds vs every other build. Three stat system.. *shrug*
It would be interesting if they revamped all class skills to a better distribution of mana/stamina--perhaps some changed to use stamina, perhaps some skills using both pools and NBs leaning heavier toward stam. Maybe 3:1, DKs and Temps 1:1 and Sorcs 1:3. [Stam:Magicka]Edited by KenjiJU on September 25, 2014 9:46AM2 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭Hmmm, isn't
bm+(m-bm)+(s-bs)=x
same as
m + (s-bs).
Also I think your idea just favours hybrid builds, because pure builds have diminishing returns of going pure magicka/stamina over softcap. I think it's really weird if hybrid builds do more damage than pure builds even they are not specializing.
You're right about the formula, good eye. I started with a base attribute value but then figured it doesn't matter if that's bm, bs, or a fictive one and used bm without changing the rest if the formula.
About the softcaps, I do believe I read those will be going away and when they do, this would be the time to also implement this. If they're staying, the formula would have to be adjusted to accomodate virtual softcaps in hybrid builds for scaling purposes.Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}0 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭*shrug*
I'm fine with spells scaling off magica, and non-spells scaling off stamina.
All class skills are simply spells. Can't think of a one that actually uses the weapon I'm holding.
The issue though @GnatB , is that people of the same class who have the same amount of resources invested should get the same benefit from class skills, no matter if they built their character for magic damage (staves) or physical damage, or a mix thereof.
Also, there are class skills that are decidedly physical in nature, even if they don't use the exact weapon you're wielding (whirldwind, thrown dagger, any spear skill come to mind).
All the spears I've seen are blatantly summoned glowy white magic looking things. Presumably how good you are at magic determines how solid/sharp those magically summoned spears are. Same is arguably true for all the other spell attacks that do "physical" damage. How solid/sharp/etc. they are is based on how good you are at magic.
People in this game are, IMO, a bit too hung up on what ZOS calls the "classes". (largely because of balance issues, IMO) If I've built my character with strong arms, why should my spells be powerful just because they are my "class" spells. I still suck at summoning spears and daggers using magic.
If you're trying to play a stereotypical magic abhorring "warrior", (which should be doable) the class you pick is largely irrelevant. Class mostly only matters if you're playing some sort of mage/mage hybrid to determine *which* type of mage/mage hybrid you are.
Achievements Suck0 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MichelleA
Regardless of player reaction or lack thereof, I've seldomly been so sure about an idea of mine as I am about this one.
I would highly appreciate it if you could forward this to the devs, assuming it's not already what they themselves have in mind.
If there's a good reason not to do so, or if they reject the concept, for instance because there's a flaw in my logic, please inform me thusly. I'm sure I'll understand and could then at least stop thinking about it.
Thank you in advance.Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}2 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?1
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Marthenil✭✭✭Amen, I couldn't agree more.
Also, secondary stats should be simplified (crit, spell pen ,armor pen and spell/wep dmg) fused into one single stat for each.0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
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killedbyping✭✭✭✭I think those 3 skill lanes should basicaly scale off different values.
For a DK
Ardent flame (Magical damage lane)- Spell damage and Magicka
Dragon Blood (survive ability lane) - Health and ?
Earthen Heart (Physical damage lane)- Stamina and Weapon damage.
Same thing with other classess.
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kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.0 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.
I agree. It just seems more likely for a currently employed system to be made fairer, than for a complete revamp to happen.Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}0 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I like OPs formula, it could work. Might also help with the issue that stamina is also used for stunbreak etc., but if I read it right your abilities do more damage if you invest also in stamina, not only magicka, right? Looks like a fair tradeoff to me, although I'm sure there are some nasty loopholes...
On a side note, the tooltips should be updated for class skills to show if they scale off spell/weapon crit and against armor/spell resistance. Renaming "spell damage" into something else could also be done, to clarify that it's not used to boost stave skills.Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.
I agree. It just seems more likely for a currently employed system to be made fairer, than for a complete revamp to happen.
They can improve on it but I think in the end it will always be the reason this game can never be balanced. Hybrids will always have the issue of never wanting to balance stats because they will do half damage with each. Stamina builds will always be very niche because it means all of your class skills will barely do damage. Magicka builds will always be the most popular along with the armor and weapons that buff them. This will only get worse when soft caps go away and people can really pump up their magicka for maximum output.0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.
No. But there's no way you can get any more resources to attack either (with the exception of intellect for casters)
It's a whole different system.
There's really no issue with abilities scaling from resources as long as the formulas are right (right now they're not).
EDIT: Back OT: What I want to see from this game is hybrids. Everyone and their mother SHOULD be a Hybrid. Punish pure stamina/ Pure magicka builds hard.
Open up the character building. This is when, and ONLY when, interesting, variable, and unique builds will show up in both PvE and PvP.
Every class has both resources and usage of both should be mandatory.
So basically an 180 turn from where the game is headed right now (specialize on one resource or spam wet noodle attacks)Edited by Marthenil on September 29, 2014 1:15PM0 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »I like OPs formula, it could work. Might also help with the issue that stamina is also used for stunbreak etc., but if I read it right your abilities do more damage if you invest also in stamina, not only magicka, right? Looks like a fair tradeoff to me, although I'm sure there are some nasty loopholes...
Not quite, as long as the total amount of invested resources is the same, so is the resulting damage modifier.Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.
No. But there's no way you can get any more resources to attack either (with the exception of intellect for casters)
It's a whole different system.
There's really no issue with abilities scaling from resources as long as the formulas are right (right now they're not).
EDIT: Back OT: What I want to see from this game is hybrids. Everyone and their mother SHOULD be a Hybrid. Punish pure stamina/ Pure magicka builds hard.
Open up the character building. This is when, and ONLY when, interesting, variable, and unique builds will show up in both PvE and PvP.
Every class has both resources and usage of both should be mandatory.
So basically an 180 turn from where the game is headed right now (specialize on one resource or spam wet noodle attacks)
Without a complete overhaul of the system you can't have damage scaling from resources and pure single resource builds punished. I think we disagree on the solution but if you are going to overhaul the system it seems to make a lot more sense to just take away damage scaling with resources.
If you calculate both stamina and magicka to get the damage that is basically the same as normalizing everyone's damage. The only penalty would be for taking health.
Here are the issues I see.
Higher stat wins = still penalizes hybrids as the higher stat will still be lower than someone who just goes all one stat. It would help Stamina but would still hurt hybrids a lot.
The OP proposed formula would help hybrids at the expense of making pure magicka/stamina builds even stronger. A magicka/stamina would just put 1 point short of OC in to magicka/stamina and the rest in the other stat and do more damage basically by losing the OC penalty. Assuming people do this everyone's damage would be the same except with a penalty for taking health. At this point it wouldn't make any sense to ever OC a stat because you would get the same benefit from putting those points in the other. I do think this would be an improvement over the current system but it would still not be a perfect solution.1 -
Marthenil✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.
No. But there's no way you can get any more resources to attack either (with the exception of intellect for casters)
It's a whole different system.
There's really no issue with abilities scaling from resources as long as the formulas are right (right now they're not).
EDIT: Back OT: What I want to see from this game is hybrids. Everyone and their mother SHOULD be a Hybrid. Punish pure stamina/ Pure magicka builds hard.
Open up the character building. This is when, and ONLY when, interesting, variable, and unique builds will show up in both PvE and PvP.
Every class has both resources and usage of both should be mandatory.
So basically an 180 turn from where the game is headed right now (specialize on one resource or spam wet noodle attacks)
Without a complete overhaul of the system you can't have damage scaling from resources and pure single resource builds punished. I think we disagree on the solution but if you are going to overhaul the system it seems to make a lot more sense to just take away damage scaling with resources.
If you calculate both stamina and magicka to get the damage that is basically the same as normalizing everyone's damage. The only penalty would be for taking health.
Here are the issues I see.
Higher stat wins = still penalizes hybrids as the higher stat will still be lower than someone who just goes all one stat. It would help Stamina but would still hurt hybrids a lot.
The OP proposed formula would help hybrids at the expense of making pure magicka/stamina builds even stronger. A magicka/stamina would just put 1 point short of OC in to magicka/stamina and the rest in the other stat and do more damage basically by losing the OC penalty. Assuming people do this everyone's damage would be the same except with a penalty for taking health. At this point it wouldn't make any sense to ever OC a stat because you would get the same benefit from putting those points in the other. I do think this would be an improvement over the current system but it would still not be a perfect solution.
I get what you're saying.
I think OPs formula with a way to avoid such loopholes (not sure on how that can work) is a good first step.
But really, even if it's not about how spells scale, hybrids not only need some love, they should be mandatory imo.
0 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.
No. But there's no way you can get any more resources to attack either (with the exception of intellect for casters)
It's a whole different system.
There's really no issue with abilities scaling from resources as long as the formulas are right (right now they're not).
EDIT: Back OT: What I want to see from this game is hybrids. Everyone and their mother SHOULD be a Hybrid. Punish pure stamina/ Pure magicka builds hard.
Open up the character building. This is when, and ONLY when, interesting, variable, and unique builds will show up in both PvE and PvP.
Every class has both resources and usage of both should be mandatory.
So basically an 180 turn from where the game is headed right now (specialize on one resource or spam wet noodle attacks)
Without a complete overhaul of the system you can't have damage scaling from resources and pure single resource builds punished. I think we disagree on the solution but if you are going to overhaul the system it seems to make a lot more sense to just take away damage scaling with resources.
If you calculate both stamina and magicka to get the damage that is basically the same as normalizing everyone's damage. The only penalty would be for taking health.
Here are the issues I see.
Higher stat wins = still penalizes hybrids as the higher stat will still be lower than someone who just goes all one stat. It would help Stamina but would still hurt hybrids a lot.
The OP proposed formula would help hybrids at the expense of making pure magicka/stamina builds even stronger. A magicka/stamina would just put 1 point short of OC in to magicka/stamina and the rest in the other stat and do more damage basically by losing the OC penalty. Assuming people do this everyone's damage would be the same except with a penalty for taking health. At this point it wouldn't make any sense to ever OC a stat because you would get the same benefit from putting those points in the other. I do think this would be an improvement over the current system but it would still not be a perfect solution.
I get what you're saying.
I think OPs formula with a way to avoid such loopholes (not sure on how that can work) is a good first step.
But really, even if it's not about how spells scale, hybrids not only need some love, they should be mandatory imo.
Like it was said earlier, if OC (softcaps) are going away, then so is this loophole.Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}0 -
Marthenil✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.
No. But there's no way you can get any more resources to attack either (with the exception of intellect for casters)
It's a whole different system.
There's really no issue with abilities scaling from resources as long as the formulas are right (right now they're not).
EDIT: Back OT: What I want to see from this game is hybrids. Everyone and their mother SHOULD be a Hybrid. Punish pure stamina/ Pure magicka builds hard.
Open up the character building. This is when, and ONLY when, interesting, variable, and unique builds will show up in both PvE and PvP.
Every class has both resources and usage of both should be mandatory.
So basically an 180 turn from where the game is headed right now (specialize on one resource or spam wet noodle attacks)
Without a complete overhaul of the system you can't have damage scaling from resources and pure single resource builds punished. I think we disagree on the solution but if you are going to overhaul the system it seems to make a lot more sense to just take away damage scaling with resources.
If you calculate both stamina and magicka to get the damage that is basically the same as normalizing everyone's damage. The only penalty would be for taking health.
Here are the issues I see.
Higher stat wins = still penalizes hybrids as the higher stat will still be lower than someone who just goes all one stat. It would help Stamina but would still hurt hybrids a lot.
The OP proposed formula would help hybrids at the expense of making pure magicka/stamina builds even stronger. A magicka/stamina would just put 1 point short of OC in to magicka/stamina and the rest in the other stat and do more damage basically by losing the OC penalty. Assuming people do this everyone's damage would be the same except with a penalty for taking health. At this point it wouldn't make any sense to ever OC a stat because you would get the same benefit from putting those points in the other. I do think this would be an improvement over the current system but it would still not be a perfect solution.
I get what you're saying.
I think OPs formula with a way to avoid such loopholes (not sure on how that can work) is a good first step.
But really, even if it's not about how spells scale, hybrids not only need some love, they should be mandatory imo.
Like it was said earlier, if OC (softcaps) are going away, then so is this loophole.
I might have missed this, are softcaps going away? Or is this hypothetical?
EDIT: Anyway, I made a similar post about secondary stats some time ago, but everyone was busy disagreeing on whether a Stam NB can kill a DK or not
Edited by Marthenil on September 29, 2014 2:31PM0 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭How about you just keep resources as resources and don't make damage scale off the size of a resource pool at all .. kind of like every other successful MMO in the history of video games?
The issue is that every other successful MMO in the history of video games used something else to make skills scale.
Here it's Stamina, in WoW its Strength (an example)
If you notice in WoW you don't use strength as a resource to attack. That is the key difference.
No. But there's no way you can get any more resources to attack either (with the exception of intellect for casters)
It's a whole different system.
There's really no issue with abilities scaling from resources as long as the formulas are right (right now they're not).
EDIT: Back OT: What I want to see from this game is hybrids. Everyone and their mother SHOULD be a Hybrid. Punish pure stamina/ Pure magicka builds hard.
Open up the character building. This is when, and ONLY when, interesting, variable, and unique builds will show up in both PvE and PvP.
Every class has both resources and usage of both should be mandatory.
So basically an 180 turn from where the game is headed right now (specialize on one resource or spam wet noodle attacks)
Without a complete overhaul of the system you can't have damage scaling from resources and pure single resource builds punished. I think we disagree on the solution but if you are going to overhaul the system it seems to make a lot more sense to just take away damage scaling with resources.
If you calculate both stamina and magicka to get the damage that is basically the same as normalizing everyone's damage. The only penalty would be for taking health.
Here are the issues I see.
Higher stat wins = still penalizes hybrids as the higher stat will still be lower than someone who just goes all one stat. It would help Stamina but would still hurt hybrids a lot.
The OP proposed formula would help hybrids at the expense of making pure magicka/stamina builds even stronger. A magicka/stamina would just put 1 point short of OC in to magicka/stamina and the rest in the other stat and do more damage basically by losing the OC penalty. Assuming people do this everyone's damage would be the same except with a penalty for taking health. At this point it wouldn't make any sense to ever OC a stat because you would get the same benefit from putting those points in the other. I do think this would be an improvement over the current system but it would still not be a perfect solution.
I get what you're saying.
I think OPs formula with a way to avoid such loopholes (not sure on how that can work) is a good first step.
But really, even if it's not about how spells scale, hybrids not only need some love, they should be mandatory imo.
Like it was said earlier, if OC (softcaps) are going away, then so is this loophole.
I might have missed this, are softcaps going away? Or is this hypothetical?
I'm not quite sure, but people keep saying it. Maybe it was in one of those live feeds or on third party websites where they prefer to release info instead of on these official forums.Edited by Rodario on September 29, 2014 2:31PMVictoria Lux - Templar Tank
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