Implement another resource to balance weapons?

bosmern_ESO

I'm sure we all know, those who use stamina weapons are drastically less potent then the magicka counter parts. But understand that I'm not one of those people who care for an only stamina or only magicka build, I use both to my advantage which makes me stronger in my build.

One thing I'm sure we've all noticed is everyone has some type off CC you have to break or roll from which takes a heavy chunk out of your stamina bar, which limits your abilities a lot more then it should. This in a way 'suppresses' a person using stamina weapons. It comes down to three options:

1. Use stamina to try and kill the person while being three times as prone to AoE, stuns, knockdowns, immobile, etc.
2. Use the stamina they have to be able to break the CC's which leave them with no attacks if they have more then one weapon ability on their bar
3. Hold block hoping to get support from allies but it means you will be doing no damage and if alone you will slowly die.

My idea to fix this is to add another resource for all abilities that currently use stamina as a resource. This would mean Stamina is only used for breaking out of CC, sprinting, and dodging. This fourth resource would benefit directly from the stamina attribute. So when a player spends a point on Stamina it will give them more stamina and more of the fourth resource allowing them a large move pool.

What exactly would the resource be called? Stamina.

What stamina currently is called can be changed to something called 'Endurance' (maybe Athletics or Acrobatics from previous ES games). So all CC breaking, sprint, blocking, and dodging would come out of the fourth resource. While keeping all weapon based attacks/buffs to use stamina (this would make stamina like magicka, which will be a huge buff).

To me, This really seems like the only option to give Stamina builds/users a fighting chance. As long as the stamina pool is used for breaking CC, dodging, blocking, sprinting along with the cost of weapon abilities, Stamina based users will always be at a disadvantage to magicka users.

AlnilamE

Alternatively, how about making blocking spells cost magica, as well as breaking CC and letting blocking physical attacks and dodge rolling cost stamina?

A lot of CC is magicka based, so it would make sense to use magica to break it. Or at least use magicka to break CC caused by Magicka.

bosmern_ESO

AlnilamE wrote: »

Alternatively, how about making blocking spells cost magica, as well as breaking CC and letting blocking physical attacks and dodge rolling cost stamina?

A lot of CC is magicka based, so it would make sense to use magica to break it. Or at least use magicka to break CC caused by Magicka.

But breaking magicka CC would use up about 30-40% of their magicka bar, This would drastically kill healers and every magicka user would be complaining. It would be a lot better to add something that all types of builds benefit from, and stamina based builds would benefit from them more then a magicka build (if they spend attributes into stamina).

jelliedsoup

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Alternatively, how about making blocking spells cost magica, as well as breaking CC and letting blocking physical attacks and dodge rolling cost stamina?

A lot of CC is magicka based, so it would make sense to use magica to break it. Or at least use magicka to break CC caused by Magicka.

But breaking magicka CC would use up about 30-40% of their magicka bar, This would drastically kill healers and every magicka user would be complaining. It would be a lot better to add something that all types of builds benefit from, and stamina based builds would benefit from them more then a magicka build (if they spend attributes into stamina).

Imagine if Magicka users had to put up with that? I can barely handle stamina users having to put up with it.

jelliedsoup

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Alternatively, how about making blocking spells cost magica, as well as breaking CC and letting blocking physical attacks and dodge rolling cost stamina?

A lot of CC is magicka based, so it would make sense to use magica to break it. Or at least use magicka to break CC caused by Magicka.

But breaking magicka CC would use up about 30-40% of their magicka bar, This would drastically kill healers and every magicka user would be complaining. It would be a lot better to add something that all types of builds benefit from, and stamina based builds would benefit from them more then a magicka build (if they spend attributes into stamina).

Imagine if Magicka users had to put up with that? I can barely handle stamina users having to put up with it.

Mograineb16_ESO

jelliedsoup wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Alternatively, how about making blocking spells cost magica, as well as breaking CC and letting blocking physical attacks and dodge rolling cost stamina?

A lot of CC is magicka based, so it would make sense to use magica to break it. Or at least use magicka to break CC caused by Magicka.

But breaking magicka CC would use up about 30-40% of their magicka bar, This would drastically kill healers and every magicka user would be complaining. It would be a lot better to add something that all types of builds benefit from, and stamina based builds would benefit from them more then a magicka build (if they spend attributes into stamina).

Imagine if Magicka users had to put up with that? I can barely handle stamina users having to put up with it.

Yeah lol, if breaking cc took 40% of your magicka, that would be ridicilous and the whine would never stop on this forum. I agree, new resource is needed.

WraithAzraiel

I'm down for a 4th bar. Or a even a large reduction to dodge roll and CC-break cost.

bosmern_ESO

jelliedsoup wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Alternatively, how about making blocking spells cost magica, as well as breaking CC and letting blocking physical attacks and dodge rolling cost stamina?

A lot of CC is magicka based, so it would make sense to use magica to break it. Or at least use magicka to break CC caused by Magicka.

But breaking magicka CC would use up about 30-40% of their magicka bar, This would drastically kill healers and every magicka user would be complaining. It would be a lot better to add something that all types of builds benefit from, and stamina based builds would benefit from them more then a magicka build (if they spend attributes into stamina).

Imagine if Magicka users had to put up with that? I can barely handle stamina users having to put up with it.

It would be fun to listen hearing them complain about their bathrobes not being comfortable enough, but it wouldn't help the situation in PvP anymore and some people would rage quit because of it.

jelliedsoup

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Alternatively, how about making blocking spells cost magica, as well as breaking CC and letting blocking physical attacks and dodge rolling cost stamina?

A lot of CC is magicka based, so it would make sense to use magica to break it. Or at least use magicka to break CC caused by Magicka.

But breaking magicka CC would use up about 30-40% of their magicka bar, This would drastically kill healers and every magicka user would be complaining. It would be a lot better to add something that all types of builds benefit from, and stamina based builds would benefit from them more then a magicka build (if they spend attributes into stamina).

Imagine if Magicka users had to put up with that? I can barely handle stamina users having to put up with it.

It would be fun to listen hearing them complain about their bathrobes not being comfortable enough, but it wouldn't help the situation in PvP anymore and some people would rage quit because of it.

After 7 months of stam builds I'm almost ready to perma rage quit. Shame really, I should like this game.

Want my stuff?

bosmern_ESO

jelliedsoup wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Alternatively, how about making blocking spells cost magica, as well as breaking CC and letting blocking physical attacks and dodge rolling cost stamina?

A lot of CC is magicka based, so it would make sense to use magica to break it. Or at least use magicka to break CC caused by Magicka.

But breaking magicka CC would use up about 30-40% of their magicka bar, This would drastically kill healers and every magicka user would be complaining. It would be a lot better to add something that all types of builds benefit from, and stamina based builds would benefit from them more then a magicka build (if they spend attributes into stamina).

Imagine if Magicka users had to put up with that? I can barely handle stamina users having to put up with it.

It would be fun to listen hearing them complain about their bathrobes not being comfortable enough, but it wouldn't help the situation in PvP anymore and some people would rage quit because of it.

After 7 months of stam builds I'm almost ready to perma rage quit. Shame really, I should like this game.

Want my stuff?

Yea, I understand they can't just unload a massive about of changes to stamina weapons/builds to get them up to speed because it could be disastrous if they over look something, or something slips through that they didn't intend. There have been some change to stamina builds every update which is actually pretty good.

I just think if we get another resource that is only for CC break, roll dodging, sprinting, and blocking it would make stamina weapons/builds a lot better and could compete with magicka. Though damage output would be another issue.

Woolenthreads

I think just a massive reduction in defence manoeuvre cost is best. I mean, a low level character doing a roll loses a lot of stamina, which they never had much of in the first place. Ask a Gymnast how much energy a forward roll takes, I suspect they'll tell you "not much" because it's about skill not energy.

bosmern_ESO

Woolenthreads wrote: »

I think just a massive reduction in defence manoeuvre cost is best. I mean, a low level character doing a roll loses a lot of stamina, which they never had much of in the first place. Ask a Gymnast how much energy a forward roll takes, I suspect they'll tell you "not much" because it's about skill not energy.

Still, even if they did that (I have dominions set so break free is 40% less, but it still costs a ton) breaking out of CC, sprinting, roll dodging and blocking would all take away from your stamina attacks.

As long as those 4 things (break CC, sprint, dodge, block) cost stamina, stamina weapons will always be at a disadvantage.

Gillysan

NO! Read this thread. The solution is much simpler.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132575/how-are-heavy-attacks-replenishing-stam-going-to-help

bosmern_ESO

Gillysan wrote: »

NO! Read this thread. The solution is much simpler.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132575/how-are-heavy-attacks-replenishing-stam-going-to-help

Heavy attacks with melee weapons is just going to get you killed easier, it will only be viable for bows and PvE.

lathbury

I have a posted in my opinion a better solution in that thread.

bosmern_ESO

lathbury wrote: »

I have a posted in my opinion a better solution in that thread.

I use a 2h, my way for compensating stamina is everything goes to stamina reduce, All med armor, (dominion set so 40% less for break free).

In PvE I can spam reverse slice for entire boss fights and maintain 700+ dps. for people who use stamina 'sippers' (bow, duels) will be able to do a mindless spam just like impulse, but with snipe, magnum shot, whirlwind, hidden blade. That wont be solving the case really, it would just dumb it down.

In a perfect world I could see having a much larger stamina pool would help, but it would edge people on to spam and it would still be hindered by CC, blocking, etc.

Which brings up a question, why does stamina have a drain but magicka doesn't? The only thing that will ever cause your magicka to decrease is the use of an ability. That should be the case for Stamina users as well, to have the only thing to drain stamina be the use of abilities.

Kos

Woolenthreads wrote: »

I think just a massive reduction in defence manoeuvre cost is best. I mean, a low level character doing a roll loses a lot of stamina, which they never had much of in the first place. Ask a Gymnast how much energy a forward roll takes, I suspect they'll tell you "not much" because it's about skill not energy.

and imagine a gamer doing the roll they would be out of breath after the first one, and they would complain that it hurts

Xallus

They keep saying they're looking at the problems with stamina builds, but I'm wondering if the team looking at them is legally blind. They're telling us they thought it was a splendid idea to have the people that are primarily in melee range, thus most vulnerable at all times to AoE, roots, stuns, knock-backs, high damage ultimates, etc...use the same resource pool as their dps to get out of all of those things (not to mention the need for sprint to keep up with fleeing targets). Then they need to "look into" why this isn't working?

I agree there should be a separate anti-cc & defense pool. It would be one thing if stam builds did significantly more damage than magic builds, but on the contrary, they do significantly less.