Free 2 Play games are garbage

Shaun98ca2

JKorr wrote: »

Cladius30 wrote: »

someone just did a post about an interview and it was brought up in this, I don't have the reference sorry

When someone posts about stuff like that, check the date. That interview was three months old. Someone necro'ed the thread.

People have been saying the game was going to be free to play since before the game was even released. Its nothing new. My favorite post on the old forum, when it was on Bethesda's site, was a long, detailed almost rant on why the game was definitely going to be buy to play because GW2 was the greatest invention in the history of everything and ESO would fail miserably and instantly if it wasn't. People posted links to the dev interviews that just came out that said the game was going to be subscription only. Long, detailed almost rant poster about had a melt-down. So did a few others who "knew" the game was going to be free to play.

Well there was HUGE speculation before the game was released of how the help does this company think they can keep an MMO P2P when there are NUMBEROUS competitors out there with F2P models.

I guess the answer was make a game unlike anything anybody has seen before.

Despite balancing issues and fatal bug release issues this game was and still is just a HUGE break from the MMO mold.

I went to play Rift today for a little........couldn't even get my hands set up properly and kept trying to look around with the mouse. Even the combat just felt wrong.....couldn't uninstall that game fast enough.

Say what you will about TESO but there really isn't an experience like it and to me that's whats saving this game.

Shaun98ca2

Kypho wrote: »

This is not f2p game, but zos turning it into garbage.....

I have to say this news update about the Stamina fix.....Heavy Attacks with Stamina based weapons will produce Stamina. Yea doesn't feel like a step in the right direction. Though I don't know if I could quite call the game garbage yet.

Kayira

The news were just saying that the loyalty program apparently indicates that ESO will go F2P. I don't really get why it means F2P and not just that ZOS wants to reward its subscribers but no one will understand the logic of the news. So everyone calm down. None of this F2P stuff is actually official.

tordr86b16_ESO

Cladius30 wrote: »

I keep hearing this game has a chance to go f2p but I hope not. That means less quality of work done to keep the game going and no standard of quality to anything.
Every f2p game I have tried has been a pile of garbage.

stop listening to rumors. the game is doing fine.

david271749

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

This is not f2p game, but zos turning it into garbage.....

I have to say this news update about the Stamina fix.....Heavy Attacks with Stamina based weapons will produce Stamina. Yea doesn't feel like a step in the right direction. Though I don't know if I could quite call the game garbage yet.

@Shaun98ca2

Yeah. It is a bit silly. Let me gather stamina by putting as much as I can into an attack. My main is a stamina NB, but even I can admit the idea is stupid. They could just take cooldown off stamina potions or greatly reduce it, and I'd be happy.

seneferab16_ESO

Try Rift and The Secret World. They both went from subscription to Buy2P and they're both pretty damn good. Not really Free2P I am aware, but close enough.
If ESO goes B2P, I will most likely stay, as long as they keep it from P2W (pay to win), which is a model I hate. Also, whatever SWToR did with it's horrible implementation to "B2P" should be avoided as well.

Shaun98ca2

david271749 wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

This is not f2p game, but zos turning it into garbage.....

I have to say this news update about the Stamina fix.....Heavy Attacks with Stamina based weapons will produce Stamina. Yea doesn't feel like a step in the right direction. Though I don't know if I could quite call the game garbage yet.

@Shaun98ca2

Yeah. It is a bit silly. Let me gather stamina by putting as much as I can into an attack. My main is a stamina NB, but even I can admit the idea is stupid. They could just take cooldown off stamina potions or greatly reduce it, and I'd be happy.

Funny I don't use potions at all during play. What they should have done is change the Restro Staff to get a different Magicka gain that only benefits Healers.

That alone would have majorly fixed the balance between Magicka and Stamina. Next Dark Exchange/Equilibrium would need more tweaking to be more detrimental to DPS builds to bring them in line with a Stamina builds.

Magicka users would burst hard but fizzle fast.

Stamina users play more of a steady pace to catch up to a Magicka users DPS.

guybrushtb16_ESO

sagitter wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

The game could easily go F2P. They could charge for mounts, hirelings, newer motifs, dyes, respecs, appearance changes, or a host of other things.

Having said that, I hope it doesn't. I think the sub model will make a better game in the long run.

yeaah . with that you'll sure have the money to pay 2 megaserver and 300 employees that works for new contents and fixing bugs right? sub model it's always the best option, if you hope for new contents and work.

It's cute how people are so quick to adapt PR speeches. Excess money never goes into features and content, those are made in set quantities just barely enough to keep people playing in either model. In truth, every model always will want to rake in the maximum of cash with the minimum of expenses obviously, product quality and amount of content are a means to an end, not a goal itself.

MMOs in general, besides the very few outliers like WoW and EVE (and even those are not immune to it's effects), have a natural lifecycle that inherently makes them more attractive after release with people gradually losing interest. Therefore, starting with subscription model and then selling out when interest fades is the way to milking the product to the maximum before it eventually dies, which is precisely the declared goal of those in charge of it. I'd be very very surprised to see those people leaving money on the table.

staxjax

ROFL, ESO will never go f2p. Sub for life.

indigoblades

They say its not in there plan, but they have all ways designed the game so Motifs are rare, horses are expensive, bag space is all ways needed. I think they make these things so overpriced so if ever need to go free to play there are lots of area's they can easily charge money for.... they could also sell dyes, since very few people master crafting, PVP and Group PVE simultaneously.

CenturionExplorer

I surely hope they don't approach the F2P model anytime.
In my opinion the best F2P game i have ever played is Planetside 2, but that may also be because i was a huge fan of Planetside which was not a F2P game.

If they make it F2P sometime i really wish they would take the Planetside 2 approach. I wouldn't even mind if they made a cosmetic store.

david271749

CenturionExplorer wrote: »

I surely hope they don't approach the F2P model anytime.
In my opinion the best F2P game i have ever played is Planetside 2, but that may also be because i was a huge fan of Planetside which was not a F2P game.

If they make it F2P sometime i really wish they would take the Planetside 2 approach. I wouldn't even mind if they made a cosmetic store.

I don't like that game's approach to F2P at all. Everything can be bought with cash, and they have freemium subs. I'd prefer something similar to League of Legends (hate the game). That game just sells skins, characters, and xp boosts. Replace characters with motifs, skins with costumes, and it's good.

Phantax

Cladius30 wrote: »

I keep hearing this game has a chance to go f2p but I hope not. That means less quality of work done to keep the game going and no standard of quality to anything.
Every f2p game I have tried has been a pile of garbage.

Always nice to see somebody making a sweeping judgment, always nicer to see a sweeping judgment that is complete rubbish !
Not all F2P games are garbage (GW2 being a prime example). I will agree that a lot of F2P games are bad but that does not by any means make them all bad.
As a lot of others have already said if ESO does ever go F2P they will immediately lose my support.

Soloeus

Cladius30 wrote: »

I keep hearing this game has a chance to go f2p but I hope not. That means less quality of work done to keep the game going and no standard of quality to anything.
Every f2p game I have tried has been a pile of garbage.

F2P encourages developers to focus only on microtransactions, and building annoyance features to force people to pay out of. Examples include limited playtime from energy meters that can be replenished for RL money, or having certain elements like Crafting item sets, repairing gear and rezzing in pvp short of a 10 min timer require spending a special currency only available for purchase on the shop.

KariTR

Cladius30 wrote: »

I keep hearing this game has a chance to go f2p but I hope not. That means less quality of work done to keep the game going and no standard of quality to anything.
Every f2p game I have tried has been a pile of garbage.

I played LotRO after it had gone free to play and SWTOR shortly before it went ftp. Both games subsequently offered plenty of new content and were enjoyable enough to warrant a subscription.

Drazhar14

I'd rather this game stay sub based and keep providing me with meaningful content. However, I must admit the content releases so far have been unimpressive for the most part. I think they are still working on finishing content they had planned before launch. Once they finally start adding new projects based on what players actually want, the game should only get better.

That being said, if the game does go downhill, I'd rather it go F2P than go offline. However, I'd rather play Elder Scrolls 6 with a co-op mode over ESO, so hopefully by the time ESO does die, ES6 is out

Digiman

Cladius30 wrote: »

I keep hearing this game has a chance to go f2p but I hope not. That means less quality of work done to keep the game going and no standard of quality to anything.
Every f2p game I have tried has been a pile of garbage.

Not really, this game wouldn't got straight to free 2 play but allow players to play specific content for free with some restrictions on others. Even then there are other avenues Zenimax can take, such as an online market place to buy cosmetic gear, dyes or other unique things that would seem appealing to have.

It wouldn't also mean the end for subscription either, as those who subscribe would have unfettered access to all content and be given loyalty points they can use to buy things for free from the market place.

There are many games who do this well and still make a profit while the online Subscription base games like WoW has declined till they release a new expansion on content more attractive to get players to go back and play.

Honestly right now I still wonder if I should recommend this game to friends as it still seems like your not getting your money's worth even with the upcoming loyalty plans.

Shaun98ca2

F2P....lets send them all to Cyrodiil for free.....level 1.

EDIT: But not in my faction...there.

Jennifur_Vultee

DDuke wrote: »

I wish people would stop defending F2P games...

Someone will always end up paying for the freeloaders, and more often than not, that someone is the person who really cares about the game and wants full access to the game's contents.

Needless to say, that full access costs you way more than a subscription ever will.

If you are fine with the fact that you'll be basicly paying for all the toxic cheap people, or you plan on being one yourself, then F2P is a good option.

I pretty much made this exact same argument with a friend who said she would never pay to play ESO and would try its once its free to play. I told her I hope Zenimax keeps its word and shuts the servers off first rather than making it pay to win...I mean free to play. I think it offended her when I reminded her "free" to play is never free because someone is paying to keep the servers running because its a business not a charity. 50 cents a day...seriously how cheap do you have to be to avoid paying that and all the pay to win BS that typically comes with free to play?

GreyPilgrim

Greatfellow wrote: »

david271749 wrote: »

Greatfellow wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but how do f2p games support themselves?

Usually by selling things you could get in game for real money, like a horse. Some sell things only available throgh cash shops, like pets or playable races...hmmm.

Oh. Hmmm. And I saw someone talk about advertising? Do they have advertising in the games? Thanks.

Before it died, the Matrix Online, which had a modern setting, actually had real world video advertisement's playing on the game's billboards. But that game was pay-to-play.... Show's how bad it was dying I suppose...

Wuggums47

When I recently started playing this game, I looked for a long time for a game without microtransactions/pay2win. This was pretty much the only option out there if you don't want that stuff.

Xeres14

Not all f2p games are garbage. Take SWTOR. When I cancelled my sub there the game was going downhill very fast. They went to a f2p system and in 2013 was rather successful.

Sometimes desperate times calls for desperate action. I don't think ESO is at that point though.

Nox_Aeterna

Nah , they actually arent.

Some of them are actually quite good , while i would prefer to have had them in a B2P model. Hell , probably one of my fav MMOs of all time because of its general idea is a F2P one.

Also , just because a game got a sub , it doesnt mean the game is better than a F2P game :P.

Phinix1

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

...there was HUGE speculation before the game was released of how the help does this company think they can keep an MMO P2P when there are NUMBEROUS competitors out there with F2P models.

Because 9 times out of 10 F2P model games are garbage, uninspired, rushed together, clunky, badly maintained cash grabs.

Play one for no more than an hour and you will see the truth. The ONE exception for me was GW2 during its heyday, however it has now gone the clunky, rushed together route (8-bit enemies in giant christmas boxes? Seriously).

I am completely and utterly unimpressed by the clunky and thrown together feel of AA.

indigoblades

The updates reset all my settings up every times and 95% of the changes are group content, which i dont give a woot about. Everytime i try to group it is a mess, so i have gotten in the habit of soloing stuff. Anyway, i used to be strongly against F2P, but i find myself less and less interested in ESO as time goes on, because every update is not worth the $15 / month... some major releases i would pay ZOS ab extra $15 if could pass on the update.

Nox_Aeterna

indigoblades wrote: »

The updates reset all my settings up every times and 95% of the changes are group content, which i dont give a woot about. Everytime i try to group it is a mess, so i have gotten in the habit of soloing stuff. Anyway, i used to be strongly against F2P, but i find myself less and less interested in ESO as time goes on, because every update is not worth the $15 / month... some major releases i would pay ZOS ab extra $15 if could pass on the update.

I agree , if zen were selling these updates of theirs on packs like a F2P game , i would have avoided almost everything until now other than the lvl cap raises and the dye system pretty much.

All this group content and nothing is just the same to me. Still 0 skyshard/quests/achivs... in craglorn.

BigM

I wish people would stop saying F2P is so great. There is no such thing as F2P, you will pay one way or another. But even saying that majority of people that do play games like SWTOR or LOTRO end up paying for the sub..

jamesawagb14_ESO

Free to play no it should not happen. I was one of the beta testers through every beta and the least they could have done was thank the testers for their help and maybe a 30 day free game time on the live game for their efforts but we got squat. The game then was so laggy and crappy I would love to have seen it cleaned up and playable but I already have 3 accounts on WoW for my family and without so much as a thank form ESO I decided not to pay for the game and a sub. Back to the issue of F2P they should do what WoW does. Let people download and play any classes they want up to a certain level. In WoW its level 20 out of 90 levels till the new expansion comes out. If they seriously want to build more subs in ESO they might want to try that instead of F2P. Till they do something like it I wont pay for another game unless I can try it first.