Confirmed - No Thieves guild and DB until 1 full year after launch.

Tyr

I know this has been brought up many times regarding waiting on the Justice System, Theives Guild, and Dark Brotherhood.

These are absolute staples of TES series and I would argue one of if not the biggest differentiating features in TES games.
Now that we know that in the BEST CASE scenario the justice system isn't being implemented until January(update 1.7) and that the Theives Guild/DB aren't being implemented until after that, I think it's rather odd and concerning that we're getting several new systems and already implemented systems like Armor dying, light and Facefx graphical improvements, spellcrafting, the champion system, etc... before these pre-launch promised features.

I want to believe that the delay is almost entirely due to the mechanics of these new features being best implemented BEFORE the justice system/guilds and that the pre-launched promised stuff is going to come out with that much more polish, but i'm skeptical.

Obviously, this applies to imperial city(announced before launch) as well being delayed to 9 months post launch.

sean.plackerb14_ESO

I know it sucks that these things are further out. I'm extremely excited about the justice system my self. But keep in mind different people/teams work on different things. Just because work is being done on say the new FaceFX system, doesn't mean its taking away from people working on justice system or the other features you mentioned.

khele23eb17_ESO

They cant dump all the pre-produced content that was cut from release on us at once. Theyll be releasing it gradually to keep people interested in the game. Tho its a shame they havent decided to roll out the guilds sooner.

ArconSeptim

Yeah that also makes me go mad, why you launch the game with no Imperial city included at all? lol It should be included at start not two years after lmao and to be honest people do not care about these armor dyes, facial fx and similar, people want all new content not improvements of already implemented things ingame.Things like those new systems, spellcrafting, imperial city, new zones and player housing should have highest priority for implementation to the game!

sean.plackerb14_ESO

Speak for your self. I enjoy the armor dyes, and I'm looking forward to the improved facial animation system. Also those kinds of features are much easier to implement, and less complicated then things like player housing, and new zones.

Elsonso

Where does the word "confirmed" fit into this? I do not recall this being confirmed recently.

raglau

Whilst the dyes et al are tedious and pointless fluff, ZOS have to release some new content to justify the sub, whilst working on the more complex stuff in the background.

sean.plackerb14_ESO

There has been new content. Lower Craglorn, Veteran Crypt of Hearts dungeon, Upper Craglorn, Veteran City of ash dungeon, and Dragonstar arena.

Not to bad for 4 updates.

Sindala

I can live with that, always gets hectic around x-mas anyway with family stuff/end of year work/ taxes ect. No need to rush things, a lot is riding on these 2 guild implementations.
I know for some if they turn bad then it's a big problem as the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are probably more important to them than any other guild.

Junkogen

That's probably when they'll release the console version as well. That's my guess.

Tabbycat

The time will go by faster than you think it will. This is one of those things I'd like to see done right so if they need to take their time getting it ready, I'm not worried about it. We still have plenty of stuff coming down the pipeline to keep us busy. So we have about six and a half months to wait. The time will fly by.

spoqster

I understand them. I can only imagine how hard it is to iron out the balancing in the justice system they are giving us. But considering that it will come too late for most PC/Mac players, it would seem reasonable to release it BEFORE the console launch, so that at least those players get to experience ESO the way it was conceived.

Tyr

lordrichter wrote: »

Where does the word "confirmed" fit into this? I do not recall this being confirmed recently.

Justice System is at least 3 patches beyond 1.4 according to the August Road ahead article and the Thieves Guild/DB have been confirmed to come out only after Justice system by various devs including Paul Sage in interviews, at Quakecon and on the forums.

That puts it at march at the earliest and that assumes no delays for the holiday season(which is unlikely).

Another related issue is that they would have to realease BOTH Murkmire and Worthgar in the 3 patches following the Thieves/DB to make in before the next quakecon.

I'm calling it right now that they won't do it.

We won't even see everything from quakecon this year released before quakecon next year. It's probably impossible for them to catch up at this point unless they release multiple huge features like a new zone and the guilds at the same time.

Elsonso

Got it. Not "confirmed" but very likely.

Drazhar14

There is already a topic on this with the exact same theory...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131506/thieves-guild-dark-brotherhood

And where was it officially confirmed?

WraithAzraiel

I would figure they'd go ahead and launch the Thieves Guild and DB would launch WITH the Justice.

But it's been confirmed that it's not coming til after it's dropped? That blows.

Tandor

As I'm here for the long term, the question of whether an additional feature makes it in a month or a year doesn't bother me. I'm taking the game at a slow pace with no intention of running out of content, which is the approach I always take in MMOs.

I put this game in the same category as EQ, EQ2 and LoTRO, all being games that I have stuck with for years rather than months.

In any event, I've seen no such confirmation and in the absence of a link to such confirmation or an official response I'll regard the timing of such additional features as pure speculation.

Tyr

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I would figure they'd go ahead and launch the Thieves Guild and DB would launch WITH the Justice.

But it's been confirmed that it's not coming til after it's dropped? That blows.

Yep it was by Paul Sage in an interview a while back and also by CM recently as well as in several other places unofficially.

Tamanous

Those guilds and the justice system are huge content additions. There is likely entire story arcs behind the guilds when added. This game simply must be balanced and fixed far better than it is now before adding such systems. It isn't about how much we want it but more about realistic expectations on the current state of the game. A year from now seems about right to be honest.

As frustrating as balance and bug fixes are in this game I like how ZoS is putting that in the forefront (not as fast I'd many of us would like granted). Many other mmos left skills and classes far behind content addition and that is far more harsh on the customer and simply unfair for those most impacted.

WraithAzraiel

BOOOOOO

khele23eb17_ESO

Tamanous wrote: »

Those guilds and the justice system are huge content additions. There is likely entire story arcs behind the guilds when added. This game simply must be balanced and fixed far better than it is now before adding such systems. It isn't about how much we want it but more about realistic expectations on the current state of the game. A year from now seems about right to be honest.

As frustrating as balance and bug fixes are in this game I like how ZoS is putting that in the forefront (not as fast I'd many of us would like granted). Many other mmos left skills and classes far behind content addition and that is far more harsh on the customer and simply unfair for those most impacted.

Or they could use the new guild skill lines to fix, improve and fill the gaps in the stamina side of the game.

Tyr

Look guys, this isn't speculation. In the most recent Road ahead article Paul Sage Outlined the order various features were coming:

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/08/20/the-road-ahead----august-20

We talked about a whole bunch of new systems and features during our QuakeCon presentation. Here’s a short update on some of the systems we talked about and roughly when you can expect to see them in an Update. As I said when I introduced the panel, we talked about features and systems that extend through the end of this year and beyond, so not all of them are short term.

“Expect to see soon”: new facial animation system, improved grouping, fixes to player separation issues

“Expect to see in a while”: Imperial City, Champion System

“Expect to see later”: Justice System, Spellcrafting



That puts imperial city into Update 1.6 at earliest and Justice system at 1.7 at earliest.

With 6 week update cycles, that puts 1.7 in mid January and Thieves guild/DB in the first week of February assuming they are released at the same time, there are no other delays, and that there is no Holiday break.
Paul Sage also said they would be releasing Justice and the guilds in several updates.
So Earliest you will see Complete Thieves guild/DB is update 1.8 in March.

Also the links to Paul Sage article talking about Guilds after justice system.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/22/the-elder-scrolls-online-should-still-hit-consoles-this-year
...and more recent CM confirmation on Reddit.

http://ds.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2fabxf/i_talked_to_some_of_the_devs_at_pax/

Tyr

Don't get me wrong, the new systems are amazing and I want to believe that they will MORE than make up for the delay by having that much more integration with the justice system.

Personally, until they release the justice system and guilds, i'll have little to do other than grind achievements and later champion points. for a solid 6 months.

Tandor

So?

Thanks for the links, that's precisely what we needed to see, but it doesn't alter anything. Next year is fine as far as I'm concerned.

Elsonso

Tyr wrote: »

Look guys, this isn't speculation.

Actually, it is speculation. You are assigning Deliverables to Updates without any firm evidence.

You might have a general order of things from Matt and Paul, but no one at ZOS has come out to say exactly what is in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. They seem to be taking great care in doing exactly the opposite, especially where 1.6 and 1.7 are concerned.

I am not saying whether any of this will end up being right or wrong, it may well be exactly right, but it is still speculation until ZOS comes out and says what will be in those Updates.

Anastasia

Tyr wrote: »

I know this has been brought up many times regarding waiting on the Justice System, Theives Guild, and Dark Brotherhood.

These are absolute staples of TES series and I would argue one of if not the biggest differentiating features in TES games.
Now that we know that in the BEST CASE scenario the justice system isn't being implemented until January(update 1.7) and that the Theives Guild/DB aren't being implemented until after that, I think it's rather odd and concerning that we're getting several new systems and already implemented systems like Armor dying, light and Facefx graphical improvements, spellcrafting, the champion system, etc... before these pre-launch promised features.

I want to believe that the delay is almost entirely due to the mechanics of these new features being best implemented BEFORE the justice system/guilds and that the pre-launched promised stuff is going to come out with that much more polish, but i'm skeptical.

Obviously, this applies to imperial city(announced before launch) as well being delayed to 9 months post launch.

---

Yup, subject to possible move-forward dates, this whole thing is so, so disappointing. But its been their 'gamble' so all players can do is mess aroud with what they've got, or enjoy other gaming and possibly come back several months into next year. Btw - if Zeni were 'spreading it out' -- then the main, pre-launch promised content would have been priority enough to release one 'main' piece with each of the smaller, bunched up supposedly q-o-l implementation.

Bah. Well, guess the returning population + the stability of whomever is a current sub AFTER THE NEW YEAR, or INTO THE SPRING is where we will see the relative settling of this MMO. Waiting for a few months is reasonable; in my humble opinion, especially as much as they 'tease' info out about those majors like the Justice System, Thieves Guild etc -- waiting over a year is far from it.

Course, the positive side of the huge delay of content promised pre-launch issue is for players who may return - its going to be like the new release we thought we were getting last spring, the one we'd waited on for them to do 'quality pre-release production and not rush just because of some deadline' - right?

Tandor

Incidentally, I do hope the people who complain at delays in new content aren't the same people who are asking for new content to be deferred until bugs and balancing issues have been resolved...

Varicite

So, uh... where is the confirmation?

This is just some dude making assumptions, from what I can tell.

Is there a source?

Tyr

lordrichter wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

Look guys, this isn't speculation.

Actually, it is speculation. You are assigning Deliverables to Updates without any firm evidence.

You might have a general order of things from Matt and Paul, but no one at ZOS has come out to say exactly what is in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. They seem to be taking great care in doing exactly the opposite, especially where 1.6 and 1.7 are concerned.

I am not saying whether any of this will end up being right or wrong, it may well be exactly right, but it is still speculation until ZOS comes out and says what will be in those Updates.

Except they have come out to say what is coming in 1.5 and 1.6 in the dev stream and they confirmed on the forums today/yesterday that imperial city(listed as 'soon' in the Road ahead article was not going to be in 1.5.

Further...

Your reasoning doesn't follow. Sequence implies a progression of time.
I mean, are you arguing that the "soon", "in a while" and "later" can mean anything else than at least 1 update separated from each other?

I mean if that's the case, then they would have to literally double or triple the rate of content creation.

There's no evidence that they are capable of doing so.

For those reasons we can make reasonable assumptions on the minimal time but not the maximum time before certain features are released.

Varicite

Tyr wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

Look guys, this isn't speculation.

Actually, it is speculation. You are assigning Deliverables to Updates without any firm evidence.

You might have a general order of things from Matt and Paul, but no one at ZOS has come out to say exactly what is in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. They seem to be taking great care in doing exactly the opposite, especially where 1.6 and 1.7 are concerned.

I am not saying whether any of this will end up being right or wrong, it may well be exactly right, but it is still speculation until ZOS comes out and says what will be in those Updates.

Except they have come out to say what is coming in 1.5 and 1.6 in the dev stream and they confirmed on the forums today/yesterday that imperial city(listed as 'soon' in the Road ahead article was not going to be in 1.5.

Further...

Your reasoning doesn't follow. Sequence implies a progression of time.
I mean, are you arguing that the "soon", "in a while" and "later" can mean anything else than at least 1 update separated from each other?

I mean if that's the case, then they would have to literally double or triple the rate of content creation.

There's no evidence that they are capable of doing so.

For those reasons we can make reasonable assumptions on the minimal time but not the maximum time before certain features are released.

They haven't provided dates for any of these update releases, although it's rumored that 1.5 will be coming in October.

A "reasonable assumption" would be that if these updates continue to follow the trend they have since launch, 1.6 will be coming in December. If that trend holds, then it would be reasonable that 1.7 will be coming sometime around February.

There has been absolutely no source stating that Thieves Guild / DB will have to wait until after the Justice system is introduced. It stands to reason that the Justice system would probably be introduced alongside the Thieves Guild, as that would make the most sense.

It's your reasoning that doesn't seem to follow anything.

Elsonso

Varicite wrote: »

There has been absolutely no source stating that Thieves Guild / DB will have to wait until after the Justice system is introduced. It stands to reason that the Justice system would probably be introduced alongside the Thieves Guild, as that would make the most sense.

Paul Sage has speculated that they will come out separately. Emphasis is mine.

"My prediction is we’ll probably get the Justice System in before we get the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood in, just because we want that system to be fully fleshed out and players used to the system before they have to use it."

ign.com/articles/2014/05/22/the-elder-scrolls-online-should-still-hit-consoles-this-year

Despite the fact that this thread is titled with the word "confirmed" and the OP has insisted that all of this is not speculation, both factually incorrect, he is probably close to the truth.