PvP without vamps

dcincali

Bramir wrote: »

And they aren't gaining mad ultimate because they are killing people with their mad skillz...they just have to hit them.

Then why as a healer when I throw caltrops w/assault 10 and my group wipes the opposition, does my ulti not magically fill up multiple times? Learn about the game before you complain please.

dcincali

Bramir wrote: »

How do you know how much time I have spent in Cyrodil? I'm seriously wondering how much time you have spent doing pvp in any game if you think that moving in stealth as fast as a horse isn't a major problem. ZOS saw the problem already and is fixing it...and if you are blinder to exploits than ZOS, I don't even know where to start.

Why is it game breaking for you when someone else is geared for speed? Do you get mad when people with Warlock get more magicka then you do because they spec into it? If someone wants to gear for a skill or trait or what ever, let em. I don't care that a NB can run faster then my horse, my group doesn't either, nor do any of my guilds. [snip] You seem to want everyone to run around naked with sticks and have no individuality for builds. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Bramir

dcincali wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

And they aren't gaining mad ultimate because they are killing people with their mad skillz...they just have to hit them.

Then why as a healer when I throw caltrops w/assault 10 and my group wipes the opposition, does my ulti not magically fill up multiple times? Learn about the game before you complain please.

Which ultimate are you talking about? And, I think the amount of ultimate gained per tic of a DoT is based on the skill itself, and that caltrops, by necessity, has a very low amount gained per tic.

It is telling that you end nearly every post with some lame attempt to demean and insult without any real knowledge of who you are talking to (or sometimes even what you are talking about). I've probably thrown more caltrops than you have...lets leave it at that.

Aerrimus

I'll gladly give up my vampire skills if they would fix heavy armor and stamina skills. I didn't want to be a vampire but I need make up for the dress/stick imbalance.

Let's start here:

1. Fix light armor so it doesn't block as much as heavy.
2. Make sprinting, dodging, sneaking, and blocking use stamina AND magicka.

Make these changes and I'll go get cured..

Bramir

dcincali wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

How do you know how much time I have spent in Cyrodil? I'm seriously wondering how much time you have spent doing pvp in any game if you think that moving in stealth as fast as a horse isn't a major problem. ZOS saw the problem already and is fixing it...and if you are blinder to exploits than ZOS, I don't even know where to start.

Why is it game breaking for you when someone else is geared for speed? Do you get mad when people with Warlock get more magicka then you do because they spec into it? If someone wants to gear for a skill or trait or what ever, let em. I don't care that a NB can run faster then my horse, my group doesn't either, nor do any of my guilds. [snip] You seem to want everyone to run around naked with sticks and have no individuality for builds. [snip]

[snip] are you even talking about? That is a lot to draw from my agreeing with ZOS that the speed stacking from vamp/nights silence was a problem...

[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Vampire + night silence is NOT an exploit. It was talked about thoroughly before it ever went live, on the PTS and the live servers. Whats happening now is a change of heart, because you same people that don't seem to know how to handle vampires moaned and moaned until ZoS caved in. And they are going about it in the worse way they could that shows how incompetent they can be.

The only REAL exploit is the mist form one. Ultimate generation has nothing to do with vampire, and batswarm isn't the only ultimate getting spammed because of it. Being a vampire doesn't increase your ultimate gen.

dcincali

Bramir wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

How do you know how much time I have spent in Cyrodil? I'm seriously wondering how much time you have spent doing pvp in any game if you think that moving in stealth as fast as a horse isn't a major problem. ZOS saw the problem already and is fixing it...and if you are blinder to exploits than ZOS, I don't even know where to start.

Why is it game breaking for you when someone else is geared for speed? Do you get mad when people with Warlock get more magicka then you do because they spec into it? If someone wants to gear for a skill or trait or what ever, let em. I don't care that a NB can run faster then my horse, my group doesn't either, nor do any of my guilds. [snip] You seem to want everyone to run around naked with sticks and have no individuality for builds. [snip]

[snip] are you even talking about? That is a lot to draw from my agreeing with ZOS that the speed stacking from vamp/nights silence was a problem...

They only reason it was a "problem" was from people like yourself complaining about a non issue. WHO CARES how fast someone is. They cant run a scroll in stealth.

[edited to remove quote]

dcincali

Bramir wrote: »

And they aren't gaining mad ultimate because they are killing people with their mad skillz...they just have to hit them.

Clearly you have no idea how the game works. Well leave it at that. Thanks for stopping by.

Huntler

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Some of you Vamps must be blood drunk because you get 3 passives that I, as a non-vampire do not get:

- +10% magicka AND stamina rec. This alone is a huge bonus. you are basically getting the bonus of 1.5 glyphs right there so you are already .5 ahead of the game after you account for the fire resist ring.
- Mitigating up to 33% damage under 30% health. being able to just lop off 25%+ of any incoming damage when you are hurting is again a huge bonus that I wish I had.
- And of course there is the move speed while sneaking.

(we wont talk about the passive that mitigates your decreased health regen. further marginalizing your "penalties")

All this for simply having to wear 1 fire resist ring (that has been proven at cap lvl to completely negate the 50% fire damage and to feed occasionally. Big damn deal.

Tell you what....how about we just remove those passives and see how much the OPed Vamps scream.


THIS is what I would do:
- Give the Fighters guild an across the board +8% to health, stamina and magicka regen passive.
- +10% damage mitigation vs the undead.
- Remove Vampire passive bonuses during the day.
- Vampires should then only get a +20% move penalty offset for sneaking instead of the current bonus (you can sneak a little faster, not obscenely fast)
- Give NB's a passive that increases their sneak speed +50% at rank 2 (if any class deserves free sneak it is that class). But once you have reached +100% you cannot get any faster.

Just a fix, you get 33% at 50% health with the 2 pts in passive, if my templar's tooltip doesnt lie. so more lol.

Just another fix, Undeath does jack against players. The slayer trait negates and overpowers what undeath can do for you. over 50% health is 9% more damage taken from every hit, when you get under, it doesnt instantly become 33% mitigation, it increases from 1% until you're near death then its 33% (still not proven to be 33%) when it doesn't even matter. It's only relevant in pve.

This is why I said there are 2 traits that are worthwhile. Undeath is irrelevant in cyrodil.

Look i've stayed out of this vamp discussion because reasons (note I am not a vamp however, but I had to interject and fix blatantly false information. The damage reduction is NOT irrelevant in pvp and I just don't really know how to respond to someone who thinks its not. Damage reduction for some silly reason (along with everything else in this game when it comes to percentages is additive. You know what that means? That there aren't diminishing returns to it, so it is coupled with all of your other damage reduction. Even an extra 5% damage reduction can be quite a big deal. So no, you are wrong, the damage reduction is quite a nice boost.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Its irrelevant in pvp, and I stated WHY its Irellevent. All it does is counter the slayer trait, all the slayer trait does is counter undeath. It does close to nothing for you in pvp. Until you actually become a vampire and test this out, hush with your assumption that its worth a damn.

Huntler

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Its irrelevant in pvp, and I stated WHY its Irellevent. All it does is counter the slayer trait, all the slayer trait does is counter undeath. It does NOTHING in pvp. Until you actually become a vampire and test this out, hush with your assumption that its worth a damn.

You literally just an example of why it is not irrelevant in PvP... it counteracts another trait.... thats a reason its not irrelevant....are you serious?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I literally told you as a daily user of this trait that its irrelevant. It was irrelevant before they nerfed it, its even more irrelevant now. Its not a boost if it does nothing.

Huntler

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I literally told you as a daily user of this trait that its irrelevant. It was irrelevant before they nerfed it, its even more irrelevant now. Its not a boost if it does nothing.

Anecdotes is not proof your opinion isn't either, it literally does mathematically reduce damage and stack with other ways of reducing damage..... that is not irrelevant... I feel like I'm talking to a wall so I'm just going to stop.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

See what youre doing is you, not a vampire, is going to sit there trying to tell one how the trait works. if you even knew how stupid it operates you wouldn't even open your mouth about it. It wouldn't even be a thought. But you don't know. you see a 33% and like OMG 33% mitigation OPNEEDSNERF. clueless.

Huntler

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

See what youre doing is you, not a vampire, is going to sit there trying to tell one how the trait works. if you even knew how stupid it operates you wouldn't even open your mouth about it. It wouldn't even be a thought.

I know exactly how it operates and instead of providing opinions not backed in any sort of fact, I'm going with the math on this one.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Your math is wrong.

Bramir

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Vampire + night silence is NOT an exploit. It was talked about thoroughly before it ever went live, on the PTS and the live servers. Whats happening now is a change of heart, because you same people that don't seem to know how to handle vampires moaned and moaned until ZoS caved in. And they are going about it in the worse way they could that shows how incompetent they can be.

The only REAL exploit is the mist form one. Ultimate generation has nothing to do with vampire, and batswarm isn't the only ultimate getting spammed because of it. Being a vampire doesn't increase your ultimate gen.

Maybe because vampires are already borderline?

Maybe exploit is the wrong word, but the effect is the same...already way too much power in that skill line.

Maulkin

Huntler wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

See what youre doing is you, not a vampire, is going to sit there trying to tell one how the trait works. if you even knew how stupid it operates you wouldn't even open your mouth about it. It wouldn't even be a thought.

I know exactly how it operates and instead of providing opinions not backed in any sort of fact, I'm going with the math on this one.

My personal experiences as a vamp have been that Undead is very very hit n' miss in pvp. It seems less of a problem in PvE.

All tests I've done have showed that dmg is calculated on the attackers client (hence obscene dmg bugs few weeks ago) rather than the server and maybe because of lag or I don't know what the effect doesn't get applied on time.

In another thread I have a screenshot of a death recap where the last attack on my vamp sorc was a light attack from daggers for 217. Unless that player had Weapon Power of 328, I don't think the mitigation was applied.

I can provide countless of screenshots on demand that prove Undead to be extremely unreliable in PvP, while Slayer being a constant effect seems to always be calculated correctly.

Huntler

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

See what youre doing is you, not a vampire, is going to sit there trying to tell one how the trait works. if you even knew how stupid it operates you wouldn't even open your mouth about it. It wouldn't even be a thought.

I know exactly how it operates and instead of providing opinions not backed in any sort of fact, I'm going with the math on this one.

My personal experiences as a vamp have been that Undead is very very hit n' miss in pvp. It seems less of a problem in PvE.

All tests I've done have showed that dmg is calculated on the attackers client (hence obscene dmg bugs few weeks ago) rather than the server and maybe because of lag or I don't know what the effect doesn't get applied on time.

In another thread I have a screenshot of a death recap where the last attack on my vamp sorc was a light attack from daggers for 217. Unless that player had Weapon Power of 328, I don't think the mitigation was applied.

I can provide countless of screenshots on demand that prove Undead to be extremely unreliable in PvP, while Slayer being a constant effect seems to always be calculated correctly.

I can't speak to your personal experiences, because I havent seen them/wasn't there, but a light attack at 217 is very viable with the mitigation working (such as the light attack critting).

Aminals

Solution to vampires: Don't stand in the guano

OrangeTheCat

There should be a compelling reason to remain human (err, non-vampire or non-werewolf). If fighters guild was inaccessible to vamps and WWs and if it was beefed up a bit to better mess with vamps/WWs, it might serve the purpose.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130815/since-pvp-is-basically-vampires-and-maybe-werewolves-too-soon/p1

PlagueMonk

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Some of you Vamps must be blood drunk because you get 3 passives that I, as a non-vampire do not get:

- +10% magicka AND stamina rec. This alone is a huge bonus. you are basically getting the bonus of 1.5 glyphs right there so you are already .5 ahead of the game after you account for the fire resist ring.
- Mitigating up to 33% damage under 30% health. being able to just lop off 25%+ of any incoming damage when you are hurting is again a huge bonus that I wish I had.
- And of course there is the move speed while sneaking.

(we wont talk about the passive that mitigates your decreased health regen. further marginalizing your "penalties")

All this for simply having to wear 1 fire resist ring (that has been proven at cap lvl to completely negate the 50% fire damage and to feed occasionally. Big damn deal.

Tell you what....how about we just remove those passives and see how much the OPed Vamps scream.


THIS is what I would do:
- Give the Fighters guild an across the board +8% to health, stamina and magicka regen passive.
- +10% damage mitigation vs the undead.
- Remove Vampire passive bonuses during the day.
- Vampires should then only get a +20% move penalty offset for sneaking instead of the current bonus (you can sneak a little faster, not obscenely fast)
- Give NB's a passive that increases their sneak speed +50% at rank 2 (if any class deserves free sneak it is that class). But once you have reached +100% you cannot get any faster.

Just a fix, you get 33% at 50% health with the 2 pts in passive, if my templar's tooltip doesnt lie. so more lol.

Just another fix, Undeath does jack against players. The slayer trait negates and overpowers what undeath can do for you. over 50% health is 9% more damage taken from every hit, when you get under, it doesnt instantly become 33% mitigation, it increases from 1% until you're near death then its 33% (still not proven to be 33%) when it doesn't even matter. It's only relevant in pve.

This is why I said there are 2 traits that are worthwhile. Undeath is irrelevant in cyrodil.

I only have one question for you.......do you or do you not have this passive? And you cannot exclude PvP and say it's only good for PvE. If it's good for one it does indeed help the other. Maybe not as much but it DOES help.

If you use the passive then your argument is rendered moot.

In fact I would bet that each and EVERY vamp has every vamp passive maxed (for obvious reasons). Evey little bit helps and those passives I do NOT get so please stop trying to convince us non-vamps we aren't missing out on something. I would take them if I had the option.

PlagueMonk

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Vampire + night silence is NOT an exploit. It was talked about thoroughly before it ever went live, on the PTS and the live servers. Whats happening now is a change of heart, because you same people that don't seem to know how to handle vampires moaned and moaned until ZoS caved in. And they are going about it in the worse way they could that shows how incompetent they can be.

The only REAL exploit is the mist form one. Ultimate generation has nothing to do with vampire, and batswarm isn't the only ultimate getting spammed because of it. Being a vampire doesn't increase your ultimate gen.

I agree it's not an exploit per se. What it IS however is an abuse of common sense. You should not be able to sneak faster than a horse can gallop!

Sneak should cap at 100%.

GwaynLoki

dcincali wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

And they aren't gaining mad ultimate because they are killing people with their mad skillz...they just have to hit them.

Then why as a healer when I throw caltrops w/assault 10 and my group wipes the opposition, does my ulti not magically fill up multiple times? Learn about the game before you complain please.

You do gain ultimate for dealing damage to enemies or healing allies with abilities that are not ultimates. Your caltrops are just not dealing enough dmg to your enemies.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/ultimate-gain-from-damage-demystified/

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Caltrops can give up to 30 ultimate per toss. The required damage dealt to gain an ultimate needs to change too. hit the enemy should = 1 ultimate. The way it works now especially makes boss fights anti-ultimate, and only healing actually gets you ultimate in them.

Braidas

GwaynLoki wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

And they aren't gaining mad ultimate because they are killing people with their mad skillz...they just have to hit them.

Then why as a healer when I throw caltrops w/assault 10 and my group wipes the opposition, does my ulti not magically fill up multiple times? Learn about the game before you complain please.

You do gain ultimate for dealing damage to enemies or healing allies with abilities that are not ultimates. Your caltrops are just not dealing enough dmg to your enemies.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/ultimate-gain-from-damage-demystified/

Yes but his point was you don't get the 25 ulti per kill from just hitting a player, you have to get the killing blow.

Baphomet

What can I say. PvP without vampires on the closed PTS was so much more fun.
Back then I was addicted to PvP, but now I only use it for recreational use... and it's becoming too expensive when I take in consideration the "fix" I get from it...

worrallj

Armitas wrote: »

If you look at the vampire line it looks like an immediately successful line, and it is a successful line. If you look at Werewolf you immediately see an unsuccessful line. They have created a truly successful, exciting, satisfying build in the vampire. I think what would be required to make Vamp a non dominant line in PvP would result in the line no longer being a success. That would be a shame.

What I think needs to be done is to make a rival, non monster line. If Vamp is successful, and it seems to be, leave it alone* and make another successful line to rival it. (also fix werewolf, but that is being worked on in the developer discussions)

*excluding tweaks, like adding red aoe circles, mist form exploit etc

What they should do is make the fighters guild skill line disabled for vamps & werewolves. Makes sense lore wise and might actually create a meaningful tradeoff.

worrallj

Armitas wrote: »

I they think they need a reason to not be a vampire. By that I don't mean that they need to nerf vampires, but give an exclusive non vampire buff. Vampire provides a tactical advantage and people choose it not because they actually care to be a vampire but because they feel they NEED too to be on par with everyone else in PvP.

There should be a choice. "I will be a vampire and receive this tactical advantage", or "I will be X and receive this tactical advantage". Then people will "choose" to be a vampire rather than become a vampire because they are "compelled" beyond their own wishes to be a vampire due to it's advantages.

We are 8 years later and this is still the case lol

Iriidius

why disable fighter guild for werewolfes? they cant use fighters guild skills while in werewolf form and outside of werewolf form they dont have any advantages so also shouldnt have disadvantages. And why are you answering to a 8 years old threat, ZoS will close it anyway for beeing outdated.