Dark stalker + night silence nerf

R0M2K

no

Hilarious.

Well, rejoyce all NS users now you can use better sets to pwn those who vote yes.

akray21

no

Drazhar14 wrote: »

@akray21 This has nothing to do with nightblades, its about vampires. Nightblades already have Concealed Weapon to sneak faster anyways. Combined with the vampire passive, that is pretty good. Plus vampires have other benefits you did not list. And I would hardly call stacking passives synergy. Synergy comes from gameplay and combining abilities, like using Elusive Mist in stealth to move even faster as a vamp. There are plenty of options.

What class do you think uses this set bonus the most? Bingo... NB! It has everything to do with my class. And if they are not allowing a stacking of NS/DS, what makes you say that you will still be able to stack concealed weapon and either NS or DS?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

no

Drazhar14 wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I just don't understand why this is being singled out as the one passive that can't stack with a set passive in this game.

Because of the temper tantrums. Pretty much every nerf has been because of them and instead of using a scalpel, they decide to use a sledgehammer.

No, I'm pretty sure it's because of game mechanics.

Please elaborate on what game mechanics were being damage because of this set? With stacking of Magicka you can bolt escape across the map faster than any horse and also damage + stun anyone you run across including those in stealth and can stop throw down a spell and keep going.

The fact that sneaking is not supposed to be faster than run speed. Vampires already have the sneak speed reduction removed, is that not enough?

Also, Bolt Escape was already nerfed, and that argument is irrelevant to this poll anyways. I can definitely get around faster on my horse than I can bolt escaping though. For burst speed, bolt escape is faster, but then your resources will be drained very fast due to the increasing cost.

Don't give me that bolt escape was already nerfed ***. It is quite maintainable with the new softcaps and gear you can get for a very long time, equal to previous if not better.

Where does it say boosted sneak speed should not be faster than run speed? This is an arbitrary rule you made up. If I'm stacking bonuses, why shouldn't I be able to get faster than run speed? (the issue was faster than a horse, they could have capped sneak speed to stop that from happening, -if it actually ever even happened-)

My resources get drained sneaking around at that speed just as they do with bolt escape, if I use retreating maneuvers for it, I'm not going to get very far, and if I use a speed pot, I've got exactly 10 seconds and then yes I can get faster than a horse. For 10 seconds. Wooo.

Of course, I can't use it in the middle of combat at all, but a sorcerer can use bolt escape anytime, and they can also flat out turn their stamina into magicka, which I only recently learned about. I watch them outpace horses all the time, and they end up at the next destination long before the horses if they are comfortable showing up without an entourage.

Don't nerf that tho, sorcerers need that.

Also, it makes perfect sense that invis pots work exactly how cloak/disguise should work if they weren't completely broken. But that't an entirely different debate, I suppose.

Armitas

yes

There is nothing about the phrase "sneaking faster than a moving horse" that sounds coherent or intended to me.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

no

Armitas wrote: »

There is nothing about the phrase "sneaking faster than a moving horse" that sounds coherent or intended to me.

that's okay because it isn't actually possible. Good job reading the thread tho.

akray21

no

R0M2K wrote: »

Hilarious.

Well, rejoyce all NS users now you can use better sets to pwn those who vote yes.

20% damage increase from stealth... thank you...

Armitas

yes

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There is nothing about the phrase "sneaking faster than a moving horse" that sounds coherent or intended to me.

that's okay because it isn't actually possible. Good job reading the thread tho.

No, I just choose to go by developer comment instead.

Fixed an issue where you could stack the Dark Stalker passive with the Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment item sets to move at mount speed. This is no longer possible—you get the bonus from either Dark Stalker or Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment.

Arsenic_Touch

no

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There is nothing about the phrase "sneaking faster than a moving horse" that sounds coherent or intended to me.

that's okay because it isn't actually possible. Good job reading the thread tho.

But... but... it's faster than a pack horse that has no points in speed so clearly it's busted... oh wait, I can sprint faster than a pack horse without any aided stats. Guess that kind of throws a wrench in the works.

The fact of the matter is that all of the negatives required to obtain said speed make it balanced because you're pretty much just like one of those balsa wood gliders in the wind. Really fast until you hit something and then it falls apart. They're also highly flammable, just like vampires.

Drazhar14

yes

Armitas wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There is nothing about the phrase "sneaking faster than a moving horse" that sounds coherent or intended to me.

that's okay because it isn't actually possible. Good job reading the thread tho.

No, I just choose to go by developer comment instead.

Fixed an issue where you could stack the Dark Stalker passive with the Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment item sets to move at mount speed. This is no longer possible—you get the bonus from either Dark Stalker or Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment.

This. So Nightblades, don't worry, concealed weapon still stacks, as it should.

NukeAllTheThings

no

Somehow people can suspend reality and have any magicka ability make sense (lightning shooting out of your hands, magical spears appearing from nowhere to destroy enemies, calling talons up out of the ground and turning invisible with your beating heart regenerating your health from near death). Yet someone sneaking with great speed is crazy and waaaaaaaay to far out of the realm of possibility.

morvegil

no

So I just bought a nights silence set for nothing then

akray21

no

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There is nothing about the phrase "sneaking faster than a moving horse" that sounds coherent or intended to me.

that's okay because it isn't actually possible. Good job reading the thread tho.

No, I just choose to go by developer comment instead.

Fixed an issue where you could stack the Dark Stalker passive with the Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment item sets to move at mount speed. This is no longer possible—you get the bonus from either Dark Stalker or Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment.

This. So Nightblades, don't worry, concealed weapon still stacks, as it should.

Still losing 60% speed... See other posts in the thread (about stacking other sets w/ passives).

ZOS class/set bonus change flow chart... 3 people cry on the forums about something > does it nerf resto/destro mage builds > no > implement change...

Elder Staves Online

Armitas

yes

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

Somehow people can suspend reality and have any magicka ability make sense (lightning shooting out of your hands, magical spears appearing from nowhere to destroy enemies, calling talons up out of the ground and turning invisible with your beating heart regenerating your health from near death). Yet someone sneaking with great speed is crazy and waaaaaaaay to far out of the realm of possibility.

I can imagine purple circles, and fuzzy rectangles but I can't imagine a square circle. If you use certain CC abilities on overly large enemies you get the response "that monster is to powerful for that effect" because it would not make logical sense to have a vine withhold a dragon, even a magic vine. When I hear the phrase "sneak as fast as a moving horse" I think square circle. That is why I made that comment. I'll admit I could be wrong about the whole thing though, at this moment though I can only see a square circle when I think of the concept.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO

yes

I think it was incredibly obvious that this stacking would get nerfed, and I do think that a remedy was fair.

That being said, I'm not sure if this was the best way to go about it. I would have liked to see some form of Speed stat, even if it was behind the scenes, and that stat also have a soft cap on it, so the bonuses could still be stacked, but for diminishing returns.

akray21

no

So is ZOS going to give me back all my legendary mats and runestones, because this set is now USELESS to me?

ThisOnePosts

no

Drazhar14 wrote: »

The way I see it, the Night's Silence set is made for players who aren't vamps, but want competitive sneak speeds. Also, sneaking as fast as a horse can run should not be possible.

By that logic, shooting electricity out of your hands shouldn't be possible either. This game is based on a fantasy world, OF COURSE IT'S POSSIBLE.

A ring should never be able to provide you with any sort of armor, resistance or power boost.. since you know... it's just a damn ring. This is the worst reasoning I have seen yet.

Also: Horses with infinite sprint yet not infinite stamina is even sillier.

Night's Silence is made for anyone who wants to sneak faster, period. As a vamp, you should certainly be sneaking faster than a non-vamp. Have you ever seen how the Bloodfiends just appear in front of you?

A nerf to one passive/set bonus combo, justifies a nerf to all. Otherwise, leave them all alone. It's not both, it's one or the other and if they nerf one --- don't be surprised when others follow suit such as Seducer, Warlock, etc.. I hope for this game's sake, they don't start doing that to any of them, including not Night's Silence even though I have no plans to use it given I'd have to give up some amazing combat bonuses just to what... sneak fast? It's a great set for those who can make use of it, but calling for a nerf on this is opening a doorway to nerf others.

The level of common sense and lack of MMO experience on these forums is bafflingly low.

Lorkhan

no

maybe ill just make a sorc u know? i rly like bolt escape, its a nice skill, zas across the map. why havent i done this yet, man? non vet campaing, here i come

xMovingTarget

yes

akray21 wrote: »

So is ZOS going to give me back all my legendary mats and runestones, because this set is now USELESS to me?

Why would they? It was your decision to craft your stuff up to yellow. Not theirs.

ThisOnePosts

no

c0rp wrote: »

Oh please...ZoS stated it was never intended for the sneak bonuses to stack. This is a bug fix not a nerf. Bolt Escape was a nerf. This is a bug fix.

Now every Nightblade isnt required to be a vampire. In my book, that is a great change.

Catching people on mounts while sneaking is ridiculous anyway.

Catching people on mounts with Bolt Escape or a shield charge at super speed which can snare opponents before you hit them is even more ridiculous. A vampire having more speed than anyone else MAKES SENSE.

My NB isn't a Vamp. But when they nerf the INSANE MAGICKA REGEN of combining Seducer, Warlock, Light Armor, and certain Racial skill lines... it's just going to take even more value away from such a system. This is just the tip of the iceberg, as I said earlier.. I hope for the sake of all item/passive combos in this game that they don't start going down this path.

Troponin

I think it was meant to be multiplicative, not additive. That would also fix the problem

akray21

no

xMovingTarget wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

So is ZOS going to give me back all my legendary mats and runestones, because this set is now USELESS to me?

Why would they? It was your decision to craft your stuff up to yellow. Not theirs.

And it's my decision to give them $30/ month (My wife and I). I still don't see this as a bug or exploit, so not sure why people are crying... I guess I can join the masses and stack magicka cost reduction on a DK/Sorc w/ a destro staff... We all know that will never be nerfed.

HAZA!

Samadhi

Troponin wrote: »

I think it was meant to be multiplicative, not additive. That would also fix the problem

The bonus from Night's Silence calculates off of the character's Sneak speed.

For a human character, it adds 36% move speed (60% of regular Sneak speed).

For a vampire character, it adds 60% move speed (because vampire's Dark Stalker passive negates the existing Sneak speed penalty.)

ThisOnePosts

no

Drazhar14 wrote: »

@akray21 This has nothing to do with nightblades, its about vampires. Nightblades already have Concealed Weapon to sneak faster anyways. Combined with the vampire passive, that is pretty good. Plus vampires have other benefits you did not list. And I would hardly call stacking passives synergy. Synergy comes from gameplay and combining abilities, like using Elusive Mist in stealth to move even faster as a vamp. There are plenty of options.

How much experience do you have as a Vamp and then on the flip side of it? I have always had a vamp character since within the first few weeks of launch. The pros and cons are highly debatable to the point that you should realize it's extremely underpowered with the amount of people that use Fighter's Guild abilities in Cyrodiil right now. Having that extra sneak bonus is just how people would like to spend their points and crafting materials/gold. Other people opt for, endless Magicka, ridiculous health and mitigation, etc...

My main which was a Vamp I cured close to a month ago. My other char which is a vamp, primarily uses Seducer/Warlock/Light Armor (sometimes mixed with 2 pieces Heavy) combo for ridiculous Magicka buffs. Then I have 2 WW just for kicks, and my others are none of the above. --- I have 8 character slots used and none of them are mules anymore. I'll be starting on my 4th VR12 soon to which that character I have already partially leveled.

Out of all the sets/passives out there, the Night's Silence/Vamp Passive combo is amongst the LEAST powerful in the game when it comes to combat. It is however, FUN and great for those who RP, etc.. I made a set to try it on my main before curing Vamp and changing my gear again. (ALSO, FYI, it's not faster than the fastest horses).

Having to take concealed weapon for that bonus btw, makes you sacrifice a much superior morph: Surprise Attack. In combat, Surprise Attack is MUCH better.

akray21

no

Does anyone actually have experience with this change in PTS, are they actually going through with this change?

kitsinni

no

Drazhar14 wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I just don't understand why this is being singled out as the one passive that can't stack with a set passive in this game.

Because of the temper tantrums. Pretty much every nerf has been because of them and instead of using a scalpel, they decide to use a sledgehammer.

No, I'm pretty sure it's because of game mechanics.

Please elaborate on what game mechanics were being damage because of this set? With stacking of Magicka you can bolt escape across the map faster than any horse and also damage + stun anyone you run across including those in stealth and can stop throw down a spell and keep going.

The fact that sneaking is not supposed to be faster than run speed. Vampires already have the sneak speed reduction removed, is that not enough?

Also, Bolt Escape was already nerfed, and that argument is irrelevant to this poll anyways. I can definitely get around faster on my horse than I can bolt escaping though. For burst speed, bolt escape is faster, but then your resources will be drained very fast due to the increasing cost.

Why is sneaking not supposed to be faster than run speed? It was always faster than run speed combining Vampire and Concealed weapons. Every other class can synergize their passives and bonuses with the passives and bonuses of vampire. Yes bolt escape was nerfed but then changes were added to sets that make it so it can still be used an unlimited number of times. If you problem is people moving faster than horses it is a bit hypocritical to complain about NB (the only combo that actually could move at slow horse speeds) doing it in stealth that couldn't do it if discovered or in combat but see no problem with Sorcs doing it in combat, while damaging, stunning and pulling people out of stealth at the same time isn't it?

kitsinni

no

AlexDrago wrote: »

Just want to say, that it would not be a DS/NS nerf, as BE was nerfed. It would be a fix to exploit.

Yes an exploit which does exactly what the description says it does and multiple CSRs specifically said was working as intended. Where did you people learn the definition of exploit?

kitsinni

no

Drazhar14 wrote: »

@akray21 This has nothing to do with nightblades, its about vampires. Nightblades already have Concealed Weapon to sneak faster anyways. Combined with the vampire passive, that is pretty good. Plus vampires have other benefits you did not list. And I would hardly call stacking passives synergy. Synergy comes from gameplay and combining abilities, like using Elusive Mist in stealth to move even faster as a vamp. There are plenty of options.

Nightblades are the only class that can use this in combination with Concealed Weapons to get anywhere near horse speed. This has everything to do with Nightblades since that is the crutch of the argument, that they should not be moving at the speed of mounts. Well it takes nightblade to do that.

Phinix1

no

If it was really too much when stacking vampire, the set bonus, Concealed Weapon, RM, etc., then they should have just capped sneak at a max somewhat higher than what vampire can get by itself.

That way you couldn't get sneak speed that was too high for all the people that complained, but vampire would still be able to achieve a somewhat higher sneak speed than the average mortal with some shiny clothes on.

This is another stupid nerf and totally unfair to vampires, who are SUPPOSED to be able to gain at least somewhat higher sneak speed than the average guy in set gear, to help offset their lack of health regen and 50% weakness to fire.

IMO ZOS knee-jerk fumbled this one, big time. For shame, catering to the cry babies at the expense of a balanced solution that doesn't negate existing game mechanics!

c0rp

yes

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I just don't understand why this is being singled out as the one passive that can't stack with a set passive in this game.

Because of the temper tantrums. Pretty much every nerf has been because of them and instead of using a scalpel, they decide to use a sledgehammer.

I am pretty sure its because a game mechanic that allows people to SNEAK around faster than a mounted horse is pretty stupid. Name ONE other mmo/rpg where a rogue/ranger/assassin (w/e you want to call it) sneaks around at lightning speed? I've been playing them for a long, long time and cannot name one. Must be a reason for that....

akray21

no

c0rp wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I just don't understand why this is being singled out as the one passive that can't stack with a set passive in this game.

Because of the temper tantrums. Pretty much every nerf has been because of them and instead of using a scalpel, they decide to use a sledgehammer.

I am pretty sure its because a game mechanic that allows people to SNEAK around faster than a mounted horse is pretty stupid. Name ONE other mmo/rpg where a rogue/ranger/assassin (w/e you want to call it) sneaks around at lightning speed? I've been playing them for a long, long time and cannot name one. Must be a reason for that....

Again, how is it stupid? Still waiting. The question should not be is it stupid, it should be, is it balanced... The answer to that is yes. And its fun as heck.