Full Templar Class Analysis

ThatHappyCat

jrgray93 wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

In PVP, that's Lingering Ritual and Cleanse. In PVE, it's resto staff skills. I don't even use resto staff skills in PVP. I just use the staff heavies when I'm low on magicka.

I just wondering something in this quote. How you can take Lingering Ritual's cast time when PvPing? It feels it has 10 minute cast time when I use it. Grand healing does the job better imo but it's lame I know.

I think that ritual needs a rework. Maybe decreased cast time to 1.5 or 1.3. Coz 0.3 sec doesn't make any sense. Or maybe it can proc instant cast like the sorcerer's fragments.

If I'm using it, I'm not on the front lines. I only use that spell if I can get away with it. Grand Healing doesn't heal enough, can't be placed in sorcerer bubbles (they are everywhere thanks to streak spamming bug abusers), and people generally won't stand in it anyway. Lingering Ritual is huge burst healing to anyone near me. I can stand outside the border of a sorcerer negate field and heal those within it. The cast time is negligible when you aren't letting yourself be a primary target.

If I'm in DPS mode, I don't find my self casting it.

Healing Ritual only has a range of 10m though, much less than Grand Healing. If you're using it chances are you're in range of enemies.

I find Grand Healing sufficient. The HoT stacks so spamming it a few times will give you comparable healing to Healing Ritual, plus you can do it from long range and without slowing yourself down.

The other thing is, HoTs give you quite a bit of Ultimate (even when you're not in combat). Spamming Regeneration to everyone is almost cost-free, helps everyone survive and gives you a stream of Ultimate.

Combat Prayer is another skill I enjoy using. A small survivability and damage boost, and the healing is not too shabby either.

jrgray93

Perhaps if I ever get a video done, I'll show you how it works for me. I'm not saying there is no merit to Grand Healing, I've just used them both and decided on Healing Ritual.

Thechemicals

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Honor the dead is for pvp and dueling. Breath of life is a pve skill and hardly needed once you get grandhealing+combat prayer.

Honor the dead doesn't require a resto staff, which for people that don't abuse blazing shield allows for you to go sword and board. And Breath of Life's spill off is incredibly powerful in regards to keeping you and your teammates up. PVP is entirely subjective, anyway, and I take absolutes about PVP as silly, anyway. Grandhealing+Combat Prayer works great in zergballs. Which is why I don't engage in that ridiculous stupidity and play on the lowest pop campaigns I can find.

Blazing shield is superior to Honor the dead/breathof life because its cheaper and has more utility. If you are implying people are/or should be using a heal spell over blazing shield then you are mistaken. That is the biggest noob mistake ever

Breath of life is junk bro. Whats it going to do in a raid trial when 12 people take 2k damage? You going to heal 3,3,3,3 for 1200magicka? Even healing ritual blows breath of life away in endgame because it hits many targets and 30% more healing on yourself.

As far as zergballs....wth are you talking about? Even a 12 man pvp raid benefits better from combat prayer and grand healing then Breath of life.

You just moaning off in all directions.

jrgray93

I do not use Blazing Shield in PVP, yet I do use Honor the Dead. Both approaches have their merits. I have other means of staying alive in solo PVP, so Blazing Shield doesn't appeal to me. There's also something to be said for being one of the very few templars who don't spam it.

Pmarsico9

Thechemicals wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Honor the dead is for pvp and dueling. Breath of life is a pve skill and hardly needed once you get grandhealing+combat prayer.

Honor the dead doesn't require a resto staff, which for people that don't abuse blazing shield allows for you to go sword and board. And Breath of Life's spill off is incredibly powerful in regards to keeping you and your teammates up. PVP is entirely subjective, anyway, and I take absolutes about PVP as silly, anyway. Grandhealing+Combat Prayer works great in zergballs. Which is why I don't engage in that ridiculous stupidity and play on the lowest pop campaigns I can find.

Blazing shield is superior to Honor the dead/breathof life because its cheaper and has more utility. If you are implying people are/or should be using a heal spell over blazing shield then you are mistaken. That is the biggest noob mistake ever

Breath of life is junk bro. Whats it going to do in a raid trial when 12 people take 2k damage? You going to heal 3,3,3,3 for 1200magicka? Even healing ritual blows breath of life away in endgame because it hits many targets and 30% more healing on yourself.

As far as zergballs....wth are you talking about? Even a 12 man pvp raid benefits better from combat prayer and grand healing then Breath of life.

You just moaning off in all directions.

Spamming Blazing shield is more noobish than anything due to how it is effectively an exploit.

Can't get into trials, so I can't comment. You are lucky to be the token Templar in a trials group. No guild that I have talked to will take another Templar for their competitive runs, despite the fact that I'm geared properly because Templars are useless in competitive runs aside from their single healer. So I can't comment on that.

Breath of Life IS useful in Veteran Dungeons. If you aren't having magicka problems (which I don't) the other morph is a complete waste.

As for your Zergball comment, you obviously don't understand that competitive Trials runs are Zergball just as much as PVP is. Group 'em up, spam 'em down.

The guilds that did turn me down admitted as much. In fact, I don't think most of them are subbed anymore.

Tankqull

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

If this looks messy, blame my phone. But yea templar issues that are:

A *** feeling of global cooldowns,

Lack of damage on skills,

Lack of utility on skills,

Lack of general survivability,

A feeling of a lack of variety within the class.

Am I correct in these? Because I've stated that nearly all our skills are either holy mortar fire or McStabby Stab Stab, and that's kinda...meh.

beside the highlighted subject i do agree.

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

In PVP, that's Lingering Ritual and Cleanse. In PVE, it's resto staff skills. I don't even use resto staff skills in PVP. I just use the staff heavies when I'm low on magicka.

I just wondering something in this quote. How you can take Lingering Ritual's cast time when PvPing? It feels it has 10 minute cast time when I use it. Grand healing does the job better imo but it's lame I know.

I think that ritual needs a rework. Maybe decreased cast time to 1.5 or 1.3. Coz 0.3 sec doesn't make any sense. Or maybe it can proc instant cast like the sorcerer's fragments.

Ritual of Rebirth, the other morph, lowers the cast time. And it's also a viable morph.

In full regen gear, Rebirth is nearly magicka neutral, too.

both morphs are only usefull in blobs, in every other pvp situation its CT+10m range just screws this ability completly.
it would either need its range extended to 28m or at least doubled to justify its CT. or have the ct reduced to 1sec[ 0.5sec with rebirth morph].

Thechemicals

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Honor the dead is for pvp and dueling. Breath of life is a pve skill and hardly needed once you get grandhealing+combat prayer.

Honor the dead doesn't require a resto staff, which for people that don't abuse blazing shield allows for you to go sword and board. And Breath of Life's spill off is incredibly powerful in regards to keeping you and your teammates up. PVP is entirely subjective, anyway, and I take absolutes about PVP as silly, anyway. Grandhealing+Combat Prayer works great in zergballs. Which is why I don't engage in that ridiculous stupidity and play on the lowest pop campaigns I can find.

Blazing shield is superior to Honor the dead/breathof life because its cheaper and has more utility. If you are implying people are/or should be using a heal spell over blazing shield then you are mistaken. That is the biggest noob mistake ever

Breath of life is junk bro. Whats it going to do in a raid trial when 12 people take 2k damage? You going to heal 3,3,3,3 for 1200magicka? Even healing ritual blows breath of life away in endgame because it hits many targets and 30% more healing on yourself.

As far as zergballs....wth are you talking about? Even a 12 man pvp raid benefits better from combat prayer and grand healing then Breath of life.

You just moaning off in all directions.

Spamming Blazing shield is more noobish than anything due to how it is effectively an exploit.

Can't get into trials, so I can't comment. You are lucky to be the token Templar in a trials group. No guild that I have talked to will take another Templar for their competitive runs, despite the fact that I'm geared properly because Templars are useless in competitive runs aside from their single healer. So I can't comment on that.

Breath of Life IS useful in Veteran Dungeons. If you aren't having magicka problems (which I don't) the other morph is a complete waste.

As for your Zergball comment, you obviously don't understand that competitive Trials runs are Zergball just as much as PVP is. Group 'em up, spam 'em down.

The guilds that did turn me down admitted as much. In fact, I don't think most of them are subbed anymore.

The feedback is so wrong in this thread its unbelievable. Templars not wanted in trials as healers has to be trolling. Maybe not wanted as dps, that i can believe. They are actually tactically brought into trials in pairs because they rotate Remembrance ultimate. If you havent done a trial as a templar healer its because you are running pugs with ignorant ideas kinda like the people commenting in this thread.

Spamming blazing shield is noobish? Sounds like youve pigeon holed yourself into thinking spamming skills is wrong and shouldnt be done. Excuse me but Everyone is spamming something in this game and all your doing is spamming Breath of life instead of Blazing shield....food for thought. Exploit you say? I dont know anything about that or care to know anything about that. Nobody has ever wrecked me with blazing shield.

Lets see....
Blazing shield for 217 Magicka gives a 800-900 damage shield and returns 53% of that damage versus Breath of life which cost 309 magicka and heals for for less than 900 without support skills and crits plus you can heal a friend or 3. Do the math.

Pmarsico9

Thechemicals wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Honor the dead is for pvp and dueling. Breath of life is a pve skill and hardly needed once you get grandhealing+combat prayer.

Honor the dead doesn't require a resto staff, which for people that don't abuse blazing shield allows for you to go sword and board. And Breath of Life's spill off is incredibly powerful in regards to keeping you and your teammates up. PVP is entirely subjective, anyway, and I take absolutes about PVP as silly, anyway. Grandhealing+Combat Prayer works great in zergballs. Which is why I don't engage in that ridiculous stupidity and play on the lowest pop campaigns I can find.

Blazing shield is superior to Honor the dead/breathof life because its cheaper and has more utility. If you are implying people are/or should be using a heal spell over blazing shield then you are mistaken. That is the biggest noob mistake ever

Breath of life is junk bro. Whats it going to do in a raid trial when 12 people take 2k damage? You going to heal 3,3,3,3 for 1200magicka? Even healing ritual blows breath of life away in endgame because it hits many targets and 30% more healing on yourself.

As far as zergballs....wth are you talking about? Even a 12 man pvp raid benefits better from combat prayer and grand healing then Breath of life.

You just moaning off in all directions.

Spamming Blazing shield is more noobish than anything due to how it is effectively an exploit.

Can't get into trials, so I can't comment. You are lucky to be the token Templar in a trials group. No guild that I have talked to will take another Templar for their competitive runs, despite the fact that I'm geared properly because Templars are useless in competitive runs aside from their single healer. So I can't comment on that.

Breath of Life IS useful in Veteran Dungeons. If you aren't having magicka problems (which I don't) the other morph is a complete waste.

As for your Zergball comment, you obviously don't understand that competitive Trials runs are Zergball just as much as PVP is. Group 'em up, spam 'em down.

The guilds that did turn me down admitted as much. In fact, I don't think most of them are subbed anymore.

The feedback is so wrong in this thread its unbelievable. Templars not wanted in trials as healers has to be trolling. Maybe not wanted as dps, that i can believe. They are actually tactically brought into trials in pairs because they rotate Remembrance ultimate. If you havent done a trial as a templar healer its because you are running pugs with ignorant ideas kinda like the people commenting in this thread.

Spamming blazing shield is noobish? Sounds like youve pigeon holed yourself into thinking spamming skills is wrong and shouldnt be done. Excuse me but Everyone is spamming something in this game and all your doing is spamming Breath of life instead of Blazing shield....food for thought. Exploit you say? I dont know anything about that or care to know anything about that. Nobody has ever wrecked me with blazing shield.

Lets see....
Blazing shield for 217 Magicka gives a 800-900 damage shield and returns 53% of that damage versus Breath of life which cost 309 magicka and heals for for less than 900 without support skills and crits plus you can heal a friend or 3. Do the math.

No, I said Templars are ONLY wanted as healers. They are non optimal as tanks and completely undesired as DPS.

And yes, exploiting the bug that exists with Blazing Shield by spamming it endlessly to build it up massively (which I have ACCIDENTALLY done, and yes it does work if you know how it happened) isn't just newbish, it's morally cheating and ultimately griefing.

I'm not spamming Breath of Life either. It's part of the kit. Believe it or not, there is some benefit to an instant heal that spills on to two other targets and doesn't require a resto staff.

You should learn some reading comprehension skills before you flip out.

Sasky

The cast time/channel time on abilities is one of the main issues with Templar DPS.
DK: no skills with cast time.
NB: 2 non-DPS skills have cast time.
SC: 2 non-DPS skills and Crystal Shard, which has proc for instant cast. Most builds only use CF when instant is available.

In contrast, Templar has 1s+ cast/channel on half its DPS skills:
- Puncturing Strikes
- Solar Flare / Dark Flare
- Backlash (and morphs)
Only Backlash (and morphs) really puts out the damage to justify its cast time in a raid setting, and only 1 of each morph can be used.

Thechemicals wrote: »

Here is how you get near infinite magicka with templar(whether you like how it is done or not), and youre welcome.
1. Seducer 5 piece
2. Warlock 5 piece (3 jewelry 2 armor)
3. All light armor
4. Magicka buff food
5. Potions that restore magicka
6. Honor the dead
7. Destro staff skill Weakness to elements+sunfire+fire staff attack.

This is open to any class, and on say a sorc puts their magicka management to the point of absurdity. Classes should have equivalent magicka costs (per spell utility) before factoring in gear and such.

You use that build in trials or a vet dungeon, your DPS will suffer because you miss out on extra spell power and max magicka.

Thechemicals wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Lets see....
Blazing shield for 217 Magicka gives a 800-900 damage shield and returns 53% of that damage versus Breath of life which cost 309 magicka and heals for for less than 900 without support skills and crits plus you can heal a friend or 3. Do the math.

There is a known bug/exploit related to repeated casting Blazing Shield. If you stay at range (so your shield doesn't hit anyone) and always re-cast your shield before the effect ends or is completely destroyed, your shield will continue to store damage. It will then release the total amount from 2, 3, 4+ shields' damage taken when it ends.

Pmarsico9

I think your quotes got a little messed up lol.

cavakthestampede

So, in a nutshell, if I want my Templar to be able to heal, tank or dps in PvE...am I wasting my time right now?

I know that Templar DPS is considered "bad" for trials. I don't mind if my only trials spots are healing.

How is DPS for Veteran dungeons though?

How is Templar tanking for trials, and for veteran dungeons?

I love the idea of a Templar, but I hate the idea of getting to end-game with a Templar and having these issues not yet addressed. Then getting hassled by veteran dungeon groups because I queued as tank or dps with a Templar.

Pmarsico9

cavakthestampede wrote: »

So, in a nutshell, if I want my Templar to be able to heal, tank or dps in PvE...am I wasting my time right now?

I know that Templar DPS is considered "bad" for trials. I don't mind if my only trials spots are healing.

How is DPS for Veteran dungeons though?

How is Templar tanking for trials, and for veteran dungeons?

I love the idea of a Templar, but I hate the idea of getting to end-game with a Templar and having these issues not yet addressed. Then getting hassled by veteran dungeon groups because I queued as tank or dps with a Templar.

No, Templars are far and away the best healers in the game. The problem is that you may not even need one since Resto staves provide a significant single target damage buff.

Additionally, at MOST you will likely need 1.

Beyond that, can they tank? Yes. They are not optimal, though, since Tanking in this game is not much more than CC and DK's bring much stronger CC.

As DPS they are rubbish.

tplink3r1

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

cavakthestampede wrote: »

So, in a nutshell, if I want my Templar to be able to heal, tank or dps in PvE...am I wasting my time right now?

I know that Templar DPS is considered "bad" for trials. I don't mind if my only trials spots are healing.

How is DPS for Veteran dungeons though?

How is Templar tanking for trials, and for veteran dungeons?

I love the idea of a Templar, but I hate the idea of getting to end-game with a Templar and having these issues not yet addressed. Then getting hassled by veteran dungeon groups because I queued as tank or dps with a Templar.

No, Templars are far and away the best healers in the game. The problem is that you may not even need one since Resto staves provide a significant single target damage buff.

Additionally, at MOST you will likely need 1.

Beyond that, can they tank? Yes. They are not optimal, though, since Tanking in this game is not much more than CC and DK's bring much stronger CC.

As DPS they are rubbish.

FAR better healing? dont lie, please.

Tankqull

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

cavakthestampede wrote: »

So, in a nutshell, if I want my Templar to be able to heal, tank or dps in PvE...am I wasting my time right now?

I know that Templar DPS is considered "bad" for trials. I don't mind if my only trials spots are healing.

How is DPS for Veteran dungeons though?

How is Templar tanking for trials, and for veteran dungeons?

I love the idea of a Templar, but I hate the idea of getting to end-game with a Templar and having these issues not yet addressed. Then getting hassled by veteran dungeon groups because I queued as tank or dps with a Templar.

No, Templars are far and away the best healers in the game. The problem is that you may not even need one since Resto staves provide a significant single target damage buff.

Additionally, at MOST you will likely need 1.

Beyond that, can they tank? Yes. They are not optimal, though, since Tanking in this game is not much more than CC and DK's bring much stronger CC.

As DPS they are rubbish.

FAR better healing? dont lie, please.

at least in pvp they are, for pve they are nice to have when you gather your first few runs but when you´ve learned the dungeouns inside out every restostaff user will suffice.

Khivas_Carrick

Basically Templars are regulated to easy mode casuals because ZoS doesn't like us because we remind them of a bad Ex of theirs, or something, idk.

Tarkit

thanks so much for the detailed analysis. really useful tips here.

chairenn

A lovely thread! I, too, find Templar the most fun class to play. I'm still in love with my Templar main, after all these months.

Francescolg

Only for pvp: Funny, how people keep arguing for a group heal with cast time that effectively costs you 2-3 seconds (lags, skill activation, animation, etc.).
You are not aware of the fact that in "serious pvp" you will be:
a) constantly and immediately CCd -> You'll need immovable
b) and much more CC -> You need purge (and even than slow+root++)
c) If you do your job right and enemies are smart (!) you will get targeted / assisted (that is why: instant heals > GTAE heals > cast time heals)
d) When you stand in negate magic and your mage does not counter it, you'll need max-heal burst
e) Most important: Get dedicated AE-healers + Purge, while you, the templar, heal dmg-spikes with BoL, this way you get near to a perfect group healing! Group heals will often not be sufficient when certain group members loose 3k HP every second (forget Destro staff for that).
f) My Breath of life can crit for 2k + (2x) 1k healing, that is what matters / see e)

Blazing shield as well as Immovable are mandatory for efficient pvp play. Blazing shield helps in so many situations (not just when attacking a zerg ball) that it's worth to be kept up. Of course, just use it when needed.

Breath of Life heals efficiently.. just check combat stats add-ons and compare HPS (i.E. breath of life vs healing springs). Breath of life gets the 30% healing passive bonus (puryfying ritual) as well as the +crit for low-health targets ++ resto staff passives. Have you team mates use

The only "heavy" argument against Breath of Life is that it regenerates Ultimates slower (why did no one of you, "experienced pvp Templars" mention that..). So you heal better but you get less ultimates out of it. And that (!) is why you will always need to combine both GTAE healing + BoL, no matter what!
That is also why many other classes will go for resto staff GTAE healing, your specialty as templar is too save peoples a.. when they already think they are dead, that is what Templars are the strongest at!

dodgehopper_ESO

There is a lot said here that is actually very good and true. I did some testing recently, and my spell resistance does not seem to raise from the use of abilities while having the Illuminate passive.

Blinding Flashes is definitely inferior to a power like Cinder Storm which grants damage, 30% miss chance, and a strong snare all rolled into one. Add to this the fact that a DK can also fire Talons on top of this repeatedly, with minimal to no problems keeping magicka up.

Green Dragon Blood outshines almost the entire Restoring Light skill line, unless you want to be a healer. Even then, most Templar healers rely very heavily upon the Restoration skill line, and not their class skills. Radiant Aura is semi decent, but has half the duration of GDB and same cost, no burst heal. There is absolutely no reliable strong self heal for a Templar like this ability, amazingly enough.

Templar has a Rune Focus instead of Spike armor or Bound Armor. When are you supposed to ever stand there, and how is armor/spell resistance really going to help you with the way armor and spell resistance work in this game? Rune focus is junk.

Blazing Shield gets a lot of press, but really Conjured/Hardened Ward blows it out of the water, when compounded with other Sorceror abilities. Conjured Ward also lasts 20 seconds vs. Blazings 6 second duration, making it likely more useful for tanking, and stacks better with powers like Annulment and its morphs. Sorceror can also have high base armor simply by using Bound Armor. Same for DK's Spike Armor. I'm not saying that Blazing is bad, but its no reason to consider Templar overpowered.

All in all, I have to admit I'm a little frustrated right now. Templar needs some serious work, and so does Nightblade. Both of these classes are heavily laden with abilities that are all too often too situational to be useful, but still charge a huge cost for use.

ThatHappyCat

Blinding Flashes has a higher blind chance plus Off-Balance and is a self-buff. No one's going to stand in your Cinder Storm in PvP, and with its tiny AoE the snare isn't going to do much to stop people from rolling out of it (and neither will Talons).

How does Green Dragon Blood outshine Honour the Dead or even Breath of Life? It restores one third of your lost health: Rushed Ceremony and its morphs can restore considerably more than that in most situations. Yes it isn't very reliable as a self-heal in zerg situations, but that's where Sun Shield comes in.

Restoring Aura, when activated, almost doubles your health and stamina regeneration, and gives the buff to nearby allies. Green Dragon Blood doesn't even come close to that. But that's a bit irrelevant because Repentance is generally the stronger morph.

You imply that Rune Focus's armour/spell resistance bonus is weak, yet you compare it to Spiked Armour and Bound Armour which grant armour (and no spell resistance). Rune Focus also increases your self-healing power by 30% (and a further 15% to healing taken with Restoring Focus), and with Channelled Focus grants you 40 magicka regeneration even if you don't stand in it.

Sun Shield is slightly cheaper than Conjured Ward, and in PvP is almost always stronger than Hardened Ward. The duration isn't really a concern as shields get stripped off quickly in both PvP and PvE. Not sure what your point with Bound Armour is as shields don't benefit from any mitigation. Plus you overlook the main reason some people complain about Blazing Shield, and that's its damage return (which granted is pretty easy to avoid). Another thing about Sun Shield is it works well for stamina builds too, whereas Conjured Ward is dependent on magicka/spell power.

Tankqull

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Blinding Flashes has a higher blind chance plus Off-Balance and is a self-buff. No one's going to stand in your Cinder Storm in PvP, and with its tiny AoE the snare isn't going to do much to stop people from rolling out of it (and neither will Talons).

reflective scales forces you into a closecombat fight with a DK.

How does Green Dragon Blood outshine Honour the Dead or even Breath of Life? It restores one third of your lost health: Rushed Ceremony and its morphs can restore considerably more than that in most situations. Yes it isn't very reliable as a self-heal in zerg situations, but that's where Sun Shield comes in.

the problem is the smart healing - sure both spells semself are better than GDB - but healing a firefly flying bye instead of yourself quickly gimp the spell .

Restoring Aura, when activated, almost doubles your health and stamina regeneration, and gives the buff to nearby allies. Green Dragon Blood doesn't even come close to that. But that's a bit irrelevant because Repentance is generally the stronger morph.

with the limited amount of skill slots what is more effective? having to slot one or two skills?

You imply that Rune Focus's armour/spell resistance bonus is weak, yet you compare it to Spiked Armour and Bound Armour which grant armour (and no spell resistance). Rune Focus also increases your self-healing power by 30% (and a further 15% to healing taken with Restoring Focus), and with Channelled Focus grants you 40 magicka regeneration even if you don't stand in it.

well you are claiming your self tht blinding flashes is superior to cinder storm - but deny Rune focus being inferior to both other armor buffs while even having a smaler effectivity radius?

ThatHappyCat

Tankqull wrote: »

reflective scales forces you into a closecombat fight with a DK.

No it doesn't. In fact Templars have the perfect counter to that tactic (which I've never seen, as DKs have no natural ranged capability) in Blazing Spear.

Tankqull wrote: »

the problem is the smart healing - sure both spells semself are better than GDB - but healing a firefly flying bye instead of yourself quickly gimp the spell .

A firefly? Well whatever. I already mentioned that, and TBH I don't have much of a problem keeping myself alive in zerg situations between Sun Shield and Breath of Life. And in smaller groups or duels it's irrelevant.

Tankqull wrote: »

with the limited amount of skill slots what is more effective? having to slot one or two skills?

It's really a moot point because no one slots Restoring Aura for themselves, and Repentance is crazy strong in zerg situations; good enough to warrant an extra slot. (Although I don't use it)

Tankqull wrote: »

well you are claiming your self tht blinding flashes is superior to cinder storm - but deny Rune focus being inferior to both other armor buffs while even having a smaler effectivity radius?

The difference is Cinder Storm relies on your enemy standing in it, while Rune Focus relies on you standing in it. One is basically impossible to control, the other is not.

Besides, my point is he said that Rune Focus is useless because it grants armour/spell resistance which is useless (according to him), but the examples he listed as being better also use "useless" armour (and are even more useless because they don't grant spell resistance... which is the more important stat in PvP).

jrgray93

Rune focus is very useless in PVP, in my opinion. Even in PVE, I struggle to find many uses for it. For PVP, perhaps it would be useful as a defense when you know a NB is about to pounce on you, but other than that, the chaotic nature of it does not cater to standing in one small spot.

ThatHappyCat

jrgray93 wrote: »

Rune focus is very useless in PVP, in my opinion. Even in PVE, I struggle to find many uses for it. For PVP, perhaps it would be useful as a defense when you know a NB is about to pounce on you, but other than that, the chaotic nature of it does not cater to standing in one small spot.

I don't use it in PvP, and I didn't deny that having to stand in it to benefit makes it inferior to on-the-go defensive buffs in PvP. I was merely pointing out that saying Rune Focus's numbers are weak means Spiked Armour and Bound Armour are even weaker number-wise.

In PvE it's great for me as a healer or ranged DPS (yes I do play Templar ranged DPS once in a while, stop laughing). A sizable buff to defence, self-healing and magicka management all rolled into one. It does lose its charm when mass AoEs start getting thrown around but the magicka regen aspect remains useful.

Tankqull

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

...

ah that clarifies your standpoint

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

reflective scales forces you into a closecombat fight with a DK.

No it doesn't. In fact Templars have the perfect counter to that tactic (which I've never seen, as DKs have no natural ranged capability) in Blazing Spear.

well the point atleast for me are possible skill slots when i´m solo i need too many other skills that i do not have slots left... give me a qb with 10+2 skills instead of 2x(5+1) and blazing spear would be the first skil replacing redundant slotting thx to the clunky qb-switch...

dodgehopper_ESO

To answer your points I'll say this. You are right TheHappyCat rune focus is strong. My point is that its only strong when you are standing in it. You can very easily get knocked out of it. You more often than not NEED to move out of it. The Fighters Guild buff is I would argue much stronger as it has a wider range and at least benefits your nearby team mates as well. The Fighters Guild buff also pushes less deep into the soft cap concerns. For someone who tries to tank using this ability, its just a liability, unless they can stand in one place and turret around. I compared it to Bound Armor simply because it is the only +armor ability that Templar has. For some reason in your rebuttal of me you seem to think I said that the high bonus of spell and armor was useless. That's not the part of uselessness. The problem with Rune Focus is that its utility is very low, since it is heavily reliant on standing in exactly one place. Bound Armor/Conjured ward don't do that to Sorcerors (nor do their passives). Spike Armor and Stone Giant don't do that to DK's.

Cinder storm is extremely easy to put your enemy into, particularly when you have mobs. Throw in Talons and its just that much better.

Please bear in mind, I'm not talking about nerfing or ruining another class. Far from it. If you're trying to defend Dragon Knight or Sorceror, it really isn't necessary. Both of these classes are pretty fantastic, and play very easily and smoothly.

I'd like to add, that the Illuminate passive doesn't work at all, and should be giving the Templar +500 spell resist that it does not. I've been testing it for the last week now, and I've sent bug reports on this issue.

The issue with Sun Shield/Blazing Shield is a bit stickier. A lot of the problem has to do with shield stacking I imagine. I am not one who thinks the Shield should explode for 4k damage... that is ridiculous. The issue is more one of cost/rewards, a problem in general with the Templar class. The Templar has as I've posted before a lot more situational tactics, which given 5+1 abilities makes it more difficult to use.

As other people have said a lot of these utility abilities are great, but you only have so many slots in the bar. I'm hard pressed to find a good reason to use Rune Focus except for some VERY situational instances. Much of the Templar skill lines are like this. I realize the healer side of the class is definitely 'team player' but many of those team player abilities aren't even useful in a dungeon situation. It needs to be 12 man or mass pvp or they really underperform.

Rather than telling me how wonderful Rune Focus is with its 1250 SR/Armor boost, can you show me more than one instance where its useful? The only times I can really see it being useful is versus a boss you can comfortably stand there and take a beating from. Aside from this nauseatingly boring mechanic that doesn't happen much in this game, where is this skill so wonderful? Ok, maybe its mildly useful (most of us are already in the softcaps) if I'm standing on top of a keep and firing down on you. That is until someone extended chains us onto the pavement. The point here is the power is easily counterable. You don't counter Bound Armor or Spike armor, its just there with you the whole time.

Khivas_Carrick

Thinking about it, you're both right but Dodgehopper is more right on this one. The majority of templar skills are either very situational or underpowered or both. Not saying we can't do stuff like tank or dps, but we definitely have to work for it and it was very apparent that sorcs and DKs were favored during final launch.

Simple fixes to each skill would do wonders and go mills to fixing the class, such as making Rune Focus a mobile aoe, i.e the focal point of the spell is you, not where you put it. That would make Templars super awesome alone, not counting other possible ways to rework/update other templar spells.

ThatHappyCat

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

For some reason in your rebuttal of me you seem to think I said that the high bonus of spell and armor was useless.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

and how is armor/spell resistance really going to help you with the way armor and spell resistance work in this game

What you said with regards to Rune Focus. If you ask that you should also ask how Spiked Armour and Bound Armour's weaker bonuses are going to help you in this game.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Cinder storm is extremely easy to put your enemy into, particularly when you have mobs. Throw in Talons and its just that much better.

Sure it's easy to cast it on your enemy. It isn't easy to keep them inside it, they'll just roll out (and Talons won't stop them because Immobilise is also broken by rolling). Blinding Flashes on the other hand you can keep active by charging your enemy. If you're talking about PvE well, everything's easy in PvE.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I realize the healer side of the class is definitely 'team player' but many of those team player abilities aren't even useful in a dungeon situation. It needs to be 12 man or mass pvp or they really underperform.

I'd say it's the opposite. Our two most effective support skills, Breath of Life and Luminous Shards, are more more useful in a 4-player group than in larger groups. Other skills (Nova, Rite of Passage, Repentance, Cleansing Ritual) are effective in any group situation, and are pretty good for solo play too.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Rather than telling me how wonderful Rune Focus is with its 1250 SR/Armor boost, can you show me more than one instance where its useful?

Like I said, I use it as a healer and a ranged DPS caster. As a squishy 7-light armour Templar it helps with survivability, and I have no need to move unless powerful AoEs are flying about - and even then it costs almost nothing to recast. The +40 magicka regeneration (not subject to soft-capping) from Channelled Focus is also helpful for managing magicka, something Templars tend to have problems with; and it works even if you don't stand in the Focus.

In case you didn't read my other posts, this is PvE only. I never said Rune Focus is good in PvP, I only had a problem with what you said regarding armour and spell resistance.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

That is until someone extended chains us onto the pavement.

No DK does this in PvP anymore since Chains got nerfed/bugged. In fact I rarely ever see DKs use Chains in PvP period nowadays.

Nidwin

Thechemicals wrote: »

If you are getting back 150 magicka every 2 seconds, consider this; Most templar skills cost between 177-225. You shouldnt be having magicka problems unless you are doing something really noob like say...using heavy armor.

This noob salutes you Master der Masters.

5 Heavy + 2 Light Armor here and I don't have magicka issues except in the moments when everyone and their grandmam would have magicka issues in Cyrodill.
I'm around 110 magicka recovery without being full templated yet as I just dinged VR10 and not going to spent hours farming for the ultimate set or setup.

Till now I've had no issues in Cyrodill with my build. But what works for me isn't going to work for someone else and vice versa, for sure.

Francescolg

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Sure it's easy to cast it on your enemy. It isn't easy to keep them inside it, they'll just roll out (and Talons won't stop them because Immobilise is also broken by rolling).

I'm not going to comment on each skill. Many misinformations in this thread regarding the effectiveness of templar skills,.., but I will comment on this one here for DKs...

DKs (using that spec) cast and recast Talons. If placed right, your opponent may roll dodge once but usually after the 2., 3. Talons they simply have no stamina left and dye! Because every skilled DK knows how good Talons is, beeing an infinitely chain-castable CC, they will use and reuse it all the time if necessary.

The resistances-ritual is rubbish in PvP. If you need the higher resis go for Immovable -> all "pro gamers" use immovable to avoid negate magic ++++ all hard CCs/other skills/etc.. (negate magic beeing the worst!) No one uses the stationary ritual because it gives mana back, that is one of a bunch of wrong analysis in this thread.