Full Templar Class Analysis

eliisra

I just noticed that Radiant Aura cant increasing in value as it levels up. It's exactly the same at level I and level IV. Haven't seen it until now, since I used Repentance in the past.

Is that intended or one more frickin Restoring Light skill/passive that needs fixing

As much as I love Repentance in PvP, It's only one drain per body and there's usually more than one Templar around using it. Annoying design that one, you shouldn't have to compete with your allies over corpses lol. Anyway, would be nice if Radiant Aura actually leveled up like skills are suppose to do.

Natjur

Skills\spells without GCD (global cool downs) or (ICD) internal cool downs only have the animation stopping you from triggering another skills and if you use a block it cancels the animation so you can cast another spell\skill instantly.

Spells\skills which have internal cool downs can have the animation canceled with block which allows you to cast another spell\skill but not the one you just used.

ESO said they would not use GCD, but they did in focused charge and sun shield. If you cast those, and then use block to cancel the animation, you can not cast anything else, you are 'silenced' until the GCD has finished.

ICD are ok, GCD are just bad

Khivas_Carrick

Oh you just pissed me off a severe amount with telling me that information, because I thought it was lag this whole time.

Those *** *** ***.

Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO

yup. kinda makes the stun of focused charge useless when u are also locked out of any attacks. By the time the animation ends and your are firmly on the ground, the stun has already worn off.

jrgray93

Updated my post. Will be trying to make a video this weekend to show off some fun builds.

Aedh

eliisra wrote: »

I just noticed that Radiant Aura cant increasing in value as it levels up. It's exactly the same at level I and level IV. Haven't seen it until now, since I used Repentance in the past.

Is that intended or one more frickin Restoring Light skill/passive that needs fixing

As much as I love Repentance in PvP, It's only one drain per body and there's usually more than one Templar around using it. Annoying design that one, you shouldn't have to compete with your allies over corpses lol. Anyway, would be nice if Radiant Aura actually leveled up like skills are suppose to do.

Radiant Aura doesn't increase in value, but in radius (from 18m at rank I to 21 at rank IV).

It's quite a weak improvement, but I still keep it because I'm a tank and Repentance doesn't help much on bosses without adds.

ThatHappyCat

I think I know what the problem with Master Ritualist is.

After resurrecting an ally, it says "you need a valid empty soul gem". It appears what it actually does is it fills an empty soul gem in your inventory, not give you a new full one.

Khivas_Carrick

Well that's rather weak. Also, this:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131268/discussion-templar-part-1-aedric-spear#latest

Made my own version with insights on how to possibly fix things. It's REALLY early in the morning for me, which doesn't mean I woke up early, but rather have yet to get to bed, so if anything seems........off, you know why. Check it out, let peeps know what you think.

jrgray93

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I think I know what the problem with Master Ritualist is.

After resurrecting an ally, it says "you need a valid empty soul gem". It appears what it actually does is it fills an empty soul gem in your inventory, not give you a new full one.

I deduced that yesterday when it failed a few times. Good observation. I'll send in a bug report, since that is not what it says in the tooltip.

Baphomet

I want to point out that sun fire actually also have an ICD. If you want to cast another ability right after sun fire, you'll notice that you have to wait for a short moment before you can actually activate it - it's especialy bad if you want to use a channel like dark flare.

One of the major reasons why templars feel more clunky and unreponsive than the other classes is the CDs of some of their abilities and the sluggish animations for others.

Have the animation department give the templar abilities an overhaul, and you'll see a lot of happy templars out there.

jrgray93

Baphomet wrote: »

I want to point out that sun fire actually also have an ICD. If you want to cast another ability right after sun fire, you'll notice that you have to wait for a short moment before you can actually activate it - it's especialy bad if you want to use a channel like dark flare.

One of the major reasons why templars feel more clunky and unreponsive than the other classes is the CDs of some of their abilities and the sluggish animations for others.

Have the animation department give the templar abilities an overhaul, and you'll see a lot of happy templars out there.

I will be very pleased when they finally go through with those plans. They have stated they want to refine animations to make spells more responsive but they have not said templars specifically.

Khivas_Carrick

Remove the Cooldowns and Change the animations from "Holy Mortar Fire" to straight fireballs and spear chucking. Yea that'll do it I think.

Thechemicals

If you are having magicka problems as a templar then youre doing something wrong. I been a Templar since the middle ages.

Khivas_Carrick

Um, please do explain then how you manage your magicka, and please don't say that you use a Resto Staff or spec all Magicka.

Thechemicals

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Um, please do explain then how you manage your magicka, and please don't say that you use a Resto Staff or spec all Magicka.

I use resto staff sometimes but its not essential. Whats wrong with using a resto staff? If you dont like the resto staff you can use destro staff.See below how its done.

Here is how you get near infinite magicka with templar(whether you like how it is done or not), and youre welcome.
1. Seducer 5 piece
2. Warlock 5 piece (3 jewelry 2 armor)
3. All light armor
4. Magicka buff food
5. Potions that restore magicka
6. Honor the dead
7. Destro staff skill Weakness to elements+sunfire+fire staff attack.

Just use whatever you want as a main weapon and use destro as a swap and put this on it
1. Honor the dead
2. Weakness to elements
3. Cleansing ritual
4. W/e u want or sunfire if not on main loadout.
5. w/e u want

This turns your secondary swap into a heal+magicka recovery loadout. This is better and more efficient thatn using resto staff.

You should have specs that look like this
Max Magicka 1900-2100
Magicka recovery 148-160

If you are getting back 150 magicka every 2 seconds, consider this; Most templar skills cost between 177-225. You shouldnt be having magicka problems unless you are doing something really noob like say...using heavy armor.

Soris

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Holy Mortar Fire

lol

Khivas_Carrick

Thechemicals wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Um, please do explain then how you manage your magicka, and please don't say that you use a Resto Staff or spec all Magicka.

I use resto staff sometimes but its not essential. Whats wrong with using a resto staff? If you dont like the resto staff you can use destro staff.See below how its done.

Here is how you get near infinite magicka with templar(whether you like how it is done or not), and youre welcome.
1. Seducer 5 piece
2. Warlock 5 piece (3 jewelry 2 armor)
3. All light armor
4. Magicka buff food
5. Potions that restore magicka
6. Honor the dead
7. Destro staff skill Weakness to elements+sunfire+fire staff attack.

Just use whatever you want as a main weapon and use destro as a swap and put this on it
1. Honor the dead
2. Weakness to elements
3. Cleansing ritual
4. W/e u want or sunfire if not on main loadout.
5. w/e u want

This turns your secondary swap into a heal+magicka recovery loadout. This is better and more efficient thatn using resto staff.

You should have specs that look like this
Max Magicka 1900-2100
Magicka recovery 148-160

If you are getting back 150 magicka every 2 seconds, consider this; Most templar skills cost between 177-225. You shouldnt be having magicka problems unless you are doing something really noob like say...using heavy armor.

You sir just pointed out the severe flaw within the game! Congratulations! Melee is shunned and Heavy Armor is a mockery. That's what's wrong. You need a dead specific build and set to do anything and that actually ruins the game for quite a few people and as you yourself have pointed out that for a Templar to do anything you need to be an outright healer or half assed healer, nothing else nor in between.

That's bad. Removal of Choice makes games bad. Even WoW after all this time and being dumbed down still has a choice. ESO has no choice. It's This way or the highway, and that's what's wrong.

You sir are literally part of the problem right now, and what's worse is that you are ok with it and offer zero ways on how to fix it. Contrary to popular belief, not everybody wants to wear a dress, use a stick, or fight/play a set certain way to get things done. In fact a great many players came to this game in hopes of getting away from that.

Thechemicals

Im sorry what? Im part of the problem? I dont have a personal video game code of honor that prevents me from using what works. You are your own worst enemy and that is why you are failing at magicka management. Im just here to help you but your moaning about game mechanics now.

Heavy armor shouldnt be for magicka anyway. Why it even gives magicka right now is very stupid. Heavy armor isnt a mage suit. Heavy armor should never ever be a magicka generator. Heres a pro tip: stamina builds actually work. Youll get it eventually.

Pmarsico9

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

You sir are literally part of the problem right now, and what's worse is that you are ok with it and offer zero ways on how to fix it. Contrary to popular belief, not everybody wants to wear a dress, use a stick, or fight/play a set certain way to get things done. In fact a great many players came to this game in hopes of getting away from that.

That's terrible. You think he designed ESO? You think he has any say about this?

He is describing a healing build, which is always going to use cloth, anyway. Your attitude is ridiculous.

Are there problems? Yes, but to blame somebody talking about a healing build then saying that not being able to wear plate or leather and heal is stupid is absolute hogwash.

Caster plate, mail, and leather in other games is stupid. So it may be the only thing that's right here.

In fact, THE ONLY THING that may be balanced is how Templar healing works.

I forgot to add:

I have no idea why anybody would use Honor the Dead and a destruction staff when Breath of Life is the most overpowered ability in the game. I can't wrap my head around it. Do you not spec Channeled Focus?

Thechemicals

Honor the dead is for pvp and dueling. Breath of life is a pve skill and hardly needed once you get grandhealing+combat prayer.

Khivas_Carrick

Thechemicals wrote: »

Im sorry what? Im part of the problem? I dont have a personal video game code of honor that prevents me from using what works. You are your own worst enemy and that is why you are failing at magicka management. Im just here to help you but your moaning about game mechanics now.

Heavy armor shouldnt be for magicka anyway. Why it even gives magicka right now is very stupid. Heavy armor isnt a mage suit. Heavy armor should never ever be a magicka generator. Heres a pro tip: stamina builds actually work. Youll get it eventually.

Battlemage Archetype, perhaps you've heard of it? Guess which series it was made popular by, and it isn't DnD.

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

You sir are literally part of the problem right now, and what's worse is that you are ok with it and offer zero ways on how to fix it. Contrary to popular belief, not everybody wants to wear a dress, use a stick, or fight/play a set certain way to get things done. In fact a great many players came to this game in hopes of getting away from that.

That's terrible. You think he designed ESO? You think he has any say about this?

He is describing a healing build, which is always going to use cloth, anyway. Your attitude is ridiculous.

Are there problems? Yes, but to blame somebody talking about a healing build then saying that not being able to wear plate or leather and heal is stupid is absolute hogwash.

Caster plate, mail, and leather in other games is stupid. So it may be the only thing that's right here.

In fact, THE ONLY THING that may be balanced is how Templar healing works.

I forgot to add:

I have no idea why anybody would use Honor the Dead and a destruction staff when Breath of Life is the most overpowered ability in the game. I can't wrap my head around it. Do you not spec Channeled Focus?

Of course I'm not blaming him for designing ESO, but I didn't ask for a healer build, I asked him how he managed Magicka, which he described using the same method many others do, which is in fact the issue plaguing this game (along with it's many other underlying issues) and more so he pretty much says to use this or gtfo.

That's the problem right there. Nobody is fixing anything that needs to be fixed, while everybody else who has no problem playing that certain way get the run of the place.

And casters in Plate or Mail or Leather is stupid? I'm sorry, I'll go tell the Druids, Paladins, Clerics, and how many other archetypes and classes that exist in games to stop wearing armor and using magic. Didn't know that was against some sort of universal gaming law, my bad.

Also, I apologize for my harsh attitude, but when people like you and him roll into here and honestly believe that everything should be restricted to a specific style of play, I cannot begin to tell you how silly that sounds. There is no reason you can't be as or nearly as effective as a healer in light armor if you wanted to wear medium or heavy, especially in an Elder Scrolls game, even if it's an MMO.

Pmarsico9

Thechemicals wrote: »

Honor the dead is for pvp and dueling. Breath of life is a pve skill and hardly needed once you get grandhealing+combat prayer.

Honor the dead doesn't require a resto staff, which for people that don't abuse blazing shield allows for you to go sword and board. And Breath of Life's spill off is incredibly powerful in regards to keeping you and your teammates up. PVP is entirely subjective, anyway, and I take absolutes about PVP as silly, anyway. Grandhealing+Combat Prayer works great in zergballs. Which is why I don't engage in that ridiculous stupidity and play on the lowest pop campaigns I can find.

The magicka regen is inconsequential if you aren't having magicka problems.

Nobody is fixing anything that needs to be fixed, while everybody else who has no problem playing that certain way get the run of the place.

Your perception of what needs fixed likely isn't in line with theirs. Otherwise it likely would have been patched already. Or they haven't gotten to it yet. Suffice it to say, stating something needs fixed only displays your own perception and you aren't a dev, so your perception matters very little. It is no reason to get vindictive over somebody who was answering a question logically. Considering how ludicrous "how do you manage magicka but you aren't allowed to use the two most powerful tools the game provides for managing magicka."

And casters in Plate or Mail or Leather is stupid? I'm sorry, I'll go tell the Druids, Paladins, Clerics, and how many other archetypes and classes that exist in games to stop wearing armor and using magic. Didn't know that was against some sort of universal gaming law, my bad.

How many Elder Scrolls game have you played? This isn't WoW. You could make heavy destruction armor in oblivion or skyrim, and yet something like Necromage existed in Skyrim for a reason. Something like the Archmage's Robes in Skyrim had insanely powerful passives on it compared to the occasional heavy Dragon mask that would bolster something beyond what a non-exploiting enchanter could attain. This isn't other games. And I tend to agree: When casters wear things other than cloth, then armor begins to matter less and less. Which is already an issue and you simply would be exasperating it.

Also, I apologize for my harsh attitude, but when people like you and him roll into here and honestly believe that everything should be restricted to a specific style of play, I cannot begin to tell you how silly that sounds. There is no reason you can't be as or nearly as effective as a healer in light armor if you wanted to wear medium or heavy, especially in an Elder Scrolls game, even if it's an MMO.

Nobody is saying anything about restricting styles of play beyond what the Elder Scrolls universe has essentially always been about. Are there major issues existing in balance? Yes. But it's stamina vs. magicka, cloth vs. heavy/medium, and staves vs. essentially all other weapons.

Yes, these are issues, but simultaneously, plastering thoughts about it on top of the blatant templar issues that exist in its own core design (extreme reliance on hardcasting in Dawn's Wrath, Eclipse being worthless in essentially all aspects of play, Backlash's 1-per-target-limit, Dark Flare's garbage damage, no resource management, Nova's ridiculous cost, 0 Templar DPS rep in current competitive sub 13 trials) muddles the message if you are trying to send one.

If you just want to rant, good for you. I won't interject again.

Khivas_Carrick

You people have left me at a loss for words on how to continue. I'm not ranting, I'm trying to tell you that anybody should be able to use whatever the hell they please, just like Morrowind though Skyrim (which I played all 3 to the near completion points for each).

You're right in that there are issues with armour imbalance, weapon imbalance, and class skill issues. If anything I think we're on the same side but are having communication issues, so let's start over

Pmarsico9

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

You people have left me at a loss for words on how to continue. I'm not ranting, I'm trying to tell you that anybody should be able to use whatever the hell they please, just like Morrowind though Skyrim (which I played all 3 to the near completion points for each).

You're right in that there are issues with armour imbalance, weapon imbalance, and class skill issues. If anything I think we're on the same side but are having communication issues, so let's start over

Yes let's:

If you are commenting about overall imbalance of heavy/medium vs. light armor or staves vs. all weapons, then that's not a Templar only discussion.

You should write a thread on that. Or add to the likely greater than 10,000 that exist regarding such.

That is not a Templar-only issue. I listed some major Templar-only issues.

jrgray93

At work so I can't really chime in and address most of that conversation, nor do I really want to, but just want to make sure we keep it civil. I don't want my thread locked. Thanks.

Actually, I will say Honor the Dead is great in PVP and PVE alike. It's a high-efficiency burst heal, if only one target. I make up for the lack of multi-target support with other spells. In PVP, that's Lingering Ritual and Cleanse. In PVE, it's resto staff skills. I don't even use resto staff skills in PVP. I just use the staff heavies when I'm low on magicka.

Khivas_Carrick

If this looks messy, blame my phone. But yea templar issues that are:

A *** feeling of global cooldowns,

Lack of damage on skills,

Lack of utility on skills,

Lack of general survivability,

A feeling of a lack of variety within the class.

Am I correct in these? Because I've stated that nearly all our skills are either holy mortar fire or McStabby Stab Stab, and that's kinda...meh.

Soris

jrgray93 wrote: »

In PVP, that's Lingering Ritual and Cleanse. In PVE, it's resto staff skills. I don't even use resto staff skills in PVP. I just use the staff heavies when I'm low on magicka.

I just wondering something in this quote. How you can take Lingering Ritual's cast time when PvPing? It feels it has 10 minute cast time when I use it. Grand healing does the job better imo but it's lame I know.

I think that ritual needs a rework. Maybe decreased cast time to 1.5 or 1.3. Coz 0.3 sec doesn't make any sense. Or maybe it can proc instant cast like the sorcerer's fragments.

Pmarsico9

faernaa wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

In PVP, that's Lingering Ritual and Cleanse. In PVE, it's resto staff skills. I don't even use resto staff skills in PVP. I just use the staff heavies when I'm low on magicka.

I just wondering something in this quote. How you can take Lingering Ritual's cast time when PvPing? It feels it has 10 minute cast time when I use it. Grand healing does the job better imo but it's lame I know.

I think that ritual needs a rework. Maybe decreased cast time to 1.5 or 1.3. Coz 0.3 sec doesn't make any sense. Or maybe it can proc instant cast like the sorcerer's fragments.

Ritual of Rebirth, the other morph, lowers the cast time. And it's also a viable morph.

In full regen gear, Rebirth is nearly magicka neutral, too.

jrgray93

faernaa wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

In PVP, that's Lingering Ritual and Cleanse. In PVE, it's resto staff skills. I don't even use resto staff skills in PVP. I just use the staff heavies when I'm low on magicka.

I just wondering something in this quote. How you can take Lingering Ritual's cast time when PvPing? It feels it has 10 minute cast time when I use it. Grand healing does the job better imo but it's lame I know.

I think that ritual needs a rework. Maybe decreased cast time to 1.5 or 1.3. Coz 0.3 sec doesn't make any sense. Or maybe it can proc instant cast like the sorcerer's fragments.

If I'm using it, I'm not on the front lines. I only use that spell if I can get away with it. Grand Healing doesn't heal enough, can't be placed in sorcerer bubbles (they are everywhere thanks to streak spamming bug abusers), and people generally won't stand in it anyway. Lingering Ritual is huge burst healing to anyone near me. I can stand outside the border of a sorcerer negate field and heal those within it. The cast time is negligible when you aren't letting yourself be a primary target.

If I'm in DPS mode, I don't find my self casting it.

Soris

Yes it lowers the time but I often fail to see the difference. 0.3 sec is too little imo.

If I use it, it usually when in a keep defence or attacking a resource. And it does good gob.
But not for any open field battle, since people are spread out all over the place and just 1 or 2 guy next to me in back lines who aren't in danger. Its effective range same as our cleanse spell as might you know too. And if I try to heal frontlines with ritual, I will have hard moments in there or silenced by an arrow.

But its perfect for dungeons tho.