Official Discussion Thread for "The Road Ahead - August 20"

Dux042

Looking good, and can't wait for the update.

braknightb14_ESO

I'm a bit concerned that chat bubbles have gone from an initial 'not gonna happen' to then being 'coming soon' and now it's not even listed as upcoming or under the headline of ' no solid timeframe'. Have they been abandoned completely? I have RP friends of mine leaving the game on a regular basis over this because it's simply too difficult to keep up with things going on around you.

Can we please have an update on what we're looking at for chat bubbles so that when people threaten to quit over it, I can be like "For Akatosh's sake, it's going to be added by *insert time frame here*." I'm being made a fool telling them they're coming, then updates like this come out that make no mention of chat bubbles at all.

Devolos

Does the road ahead eventually lead to the console release?

goaway

I wish I could buy just two more character slots! I like to try all the races; in Skyrim I have one of each race, and I was disappointed to find that I could only make eight characters with ten races available! I know that you have to control the number of characters which I understand. Which is why I'm willing to pay! And I only want just two...please? At least think about it

Thank you!

Laplace

Awdwyn wrote: »

Laplace wrote: »

Probably a dumb question, but: If and when the Veteran System is scrapped in favor of the Champion System, will we be still be able to get the Golden Saint, Seducer, and Mannimarco Costumes?

This is coming from someone with a busy life due to my job but loves this game, so I still haven't managed to make much headway towards Veteran Ranks, and I'd hate to miss out on them.

Perhaps tie them to a certain number of champion points earned on the character instead?

I'd be okay with this. But it'd be nice to get some official confirmation.

Elad13

If you have seen more then once about the helpful community...stop reading the same posts!!! How about you pull your head out of a personal dark hole and pay attention to the growing disappointment that is ESO.? In time the forums will be all positive because most people will have left....another pet that's not even new to the game...um thanks...If that's what $60 buys I'm passing. Want me to test your game? Then stop charging me to play broken designs...want me to be more active helping you??? Why it seems you ignore most majority issues...want to impress me? Turn the game over to a competent company. I have never seen such disregard for customers ever. So go feel all happy going to the bank....there's no need for me to continue financing your failures.

Cogo

Ignore the complainers.

I did, and got to play and enjoy the game a lot more, then "discussing" with people who neither like the game or plays it.

Ilterendi

Brandalf wrote: »

Ilterendi wrote: »

I love this game, but reading "stay tuned for update X and keep sending us your money" is really disheartening. Especially considering the current state of abilities that are heavily bugged, in all classes but worse as a Nightblade. I'm finding more and more that I'm having less interest in playing, mostly because it seems that developers are not perceptive at providing accurate and balanced skills and combat. I understand devs want to go slow, but the snail's pace needs a kick in the ass and booster rockets. Spell crit and melee crit should be incorporated into just Crit, for starters. I haven't canceled my sub yet, the loyalty program doesn't interest me in the slightest, but after this vague update on the game I'm closer to doing it.

Would you rather they didn't detail their future plans in such detail to give us paying subscribers such a clear picture of what the game is going to become? ZOS set a goal to release major new content every 4-6 weeks, like many other MMO devs. The difference is that ZOS have actually managed to consistently achieve that goal.

If you don't feel like they're adding enough new content to justify your subscription I have to wonder if any MMO could please you in that department.

I think we have very different views on what their goals should be and what a successful patch is.

My expectations are them keeping to their word and slogan (Play your way). Most builds are viable, yes. However, there is a startling contrast between Magicka builds and Stamina builds. In Update 3, we saw ZOS attempting to cure one symptom of this issue via gear sets. Which is quite telling that they are not able to fix the problem, and the issues will only get worse over time. Look at Vampires vs Werewolves. Vampires have most of their skills bugged and being a werewolf is more of a handicap than anything else, this needs immediate attention and fixing, but this has been the norm since beta. The patches that, as you say, are meeting their major goals, are riddled with bugs. My complaint in this matter isn't about needing content to devour, it's that the provided content is not of a quality that I find fitting for a game such as this. You can find many examples on this page of how ZOS ignores their testers but pleads for more. They didn't listen in beta, they don't listen in the PTS. Why should I dedicate another 20g to be ignored? Why should I expect them to change?

MartinXKid

I'm scared. I'm only lvl 43 (I take my time which I find this to be great) and I really am excited to hit veteran ranks and adventure to the other faction zones (I've only been playing one single character, never exploring any other faction yet.)

But I'm scared. I keep checking the forums and what I see is full of discussions about quiting the game because of an intense quantity of bugs/ little to no incentive after Veteran 10/ unbalanced Light armor with staff build (I play melee DK Tank) and problems about Zergballs in Cyrodiil and now that PTS players aren't heard about the biggest of the problems. I hear very little of good opinions about this game.
All I only want is to have fun in an Elder Scroll game that is an MMO.
Off course, no one would want to advertise problems in their news of the day like the ESO Roads Ahead and maybe, just maybe, having to give out contents every 4-6 weeks is too little of a time frame to fix whatever problems?
I mean WoW: Warlords of Dreanor is coming soon and If I hit max level and experience problems such as the player base community is actually kinda shouting (You can find numerous articles about the same problems) I know where my 15$ will go then (After I actually get the expansion off course).
I hope these issues will be solved soon. Very Soon.

Lionxoft

In the future, we plan to add some kind of incentive for helping us test new content, so keep your eyes open for details.

<sarcasm>

You mean you're going to send me another paycheck, right? If you'd like I can suggest some starting salaries for UA, functional and stress testers. Let me know.

</sarcasm>

If you won't actually address the bugs or recognize our corner case testing then why would I help you test your game further?

maanemann

But what about PvP content?

Bleakraven

Hope you get more people to join you in the PTS!

Pantherin

I am a realist.

I deal in facts and base my comments on experience.

That being said, I am concerned about the state of this game.

I see content being pushed out to appease the mass and I see attempted bug fixes that create more issues, and the core systems are still not working properly, and are unbalanced.

I know all this is necessary in the evaluation of the game. I am also aware, with this community, you will never please everyone.

Lets talk about one of our most valued asset in life: Our Money. $15.00 a month is a lot of money to someone who is struggling. Most of us are willing to give you our money, if we see value added results. The real question here is: Is our money being invested being spent appropriately and is the content being published worth our $15.00?

In my opinion, there is a lot of content in development, a lot of new content being pushed out and the old stuff is still not fixed. I feel like my money is being used to create layers of smoke and mirrors to keep subscribers. I feel like it is more about the money than it is about the player and more importantly the game. I see non committal timelines, I see avoided questions and ignored issues.

When a Game Industry walks down that path, there is no turning back.

I caution you, if you continue down this path it will not end favorably. I can list in troves the number of games I have played over the 20+ years that have failed due to this mentality.

Some of the developers care, and it is apparent.

I think it could and should be managed more professionally.

Be a professional and address problems. Show us that our money is be invested, and wisely. Show us a list of things you are working on and an expected time of completion. In the professional world that is how it is done. If I walked into my bosses office and said - some of the things that have been said here, I would not be a Senior NCO or Adviser. I would be relieved of my duties for dereliction and incompetence. I know this is not the Military; but I ask you, do your subscribers deserve any less of a professional courtesy?

I have lead men and women into combat several times and I have been a manager of many major projects.

This is not how you manage.

You have Team Leads.

Hold them to a Standard.

Hold them Accountable.

Have them create a Top Ten List and publish that list, for each section; with expected completion dates.

Let the community set your priorities.

If there are issues, immediately let the community know, so they are not shocked.

Let the player base know you are working on their concerns and care.

I would even take it a step further and assign a name to a project or item on the list...so that person can be praised for their efforts.

Take responsibility and ownership, that is what a Professional does.

Ilterendi

Pantherin wrote: »

I am a realist.

I deal in facts and base my comments on experience.

That being said, I am concerned about the state of this game.

I see content being pushed out to appease the mass and I see attempted bug fixes that create more issues, and the core systems are still not working properly, and are unbalanced.

I know all this is necessary in the evaluation of the game. I am also aware, with this community, you will never please everyone.

Lets talk about one of our most valued asset in life: Our Money. $15.00 a month is a lot of money to someone who is struggling. Most of us are willing to give you our money, if we see value added results. The real question here is: Is our money being invested being spent appropriately and is the content being published worth our $15.00?

In my opinion, there is a lot of content in development, a lot of new content being pushed out and the old stuff is still not fixed. I feel like my money is being used to create layers of smoke and mirrors to keep subscribers. I feel like it is more about the money than it is about the player and more importantly the game. I see non committal timelines, I see avoided questions and ignored issues.

When a Game Industry walks down that path, there is no turning back.

I caution you, if you continue down this path it will not end favorably. I can list in troves the number of games I have played over the 20+ years that have failed due to this mentality.

Some of the developers care, and it is apparent.

I think it could and should be managed more professionally.

Be a professional and address problems. Show us that our money is be invested, and wisely. Show us a list of things you are working on and an expected time of completion. In the professional world that is how it is done. If I walked into my bosses office and said - some of the things that have been said here, I would not be a Senior NCO or Adviser. I would be relieved of my duties for dereliction and incompetence. I know this is not the Military; but I ask you, do your subscribers deserve any less of a professional courtesy?

I have lead men and women into combat several times and I have been a manager of many major projects.

This is not how you manage.

You have Team Leads.

Hold them to a Standard.

Hold them Accountable.

Have them create a Top Ten List and publish that list, for each section; with expected completion dates.

Let the community set your priorities.

If there are issues, immediately let the community know, so they are not shocked.

Let the player base know you are working on their concerns and care.

I would even take it a step further and assign a name to a project or item on the list...so that person can be praised for their efforts.

Take responsibility and ownership, that is what a Professional does.

I could not have said it better myself. This is exactly how I feel.

HeroOfNone

With the new facial animation system, will developers give addon creators access to player facial animation controls so they can work on things like expressive emotes or possibly mic sound synchronization with TeamSpeak/ventrillo/mumble?

Would it be possible to get a copy of the facial animation model to be converted and used in applications like www.facerig.com , which I'd an upcoming facial morph software that game streamers use to convert their face into a digital avatar?

Cogo

Pantherin wrote: »

I am a realist.

I deal in facts and base my comments on experience.

That being said, I am concerned about the state of this game.

I see content being pushed out to appease the mass and I see attempted bug fixes that create more issues, and the core systems are still not working properly, and are unbalanced.

I know all this is necessary in the evaluation of the game. I am also aware, with this community, you will never please everyone.

Lets talk about one of our most valued asset in life: Our Money. $15.00 a month is a lot of money to someone who is struggling. Most of us are willing to give you our money, if we see value added results. The real question here is: Is our money being invested being spent appropriately and is the content being published worth our $15.00?

In my opinion, there is a lot of content in development, a lot of new content being pushed out and the old stuff is still not fixed. I feel like my money is being used to create layers of smoke and mirrors to keep subscribers. I feel like it is more about the money than it is about the player and more importantly the game. I see non committal timelines, I see avoided questions and ignored issues.

When a Game Industry walks down that path, there is no turning back.

I caution you, if you continue down this path it will not end favorably. I can list in troves the number of games I have played over the 20+ years that have failed due to this mentality.


Take responsibility and ownership, that is what a Professional does.

WARNING, long post with detailed facts

You go by facts? Great! We need more players who does that!
I, as well, have 20+ years experience in MMOs (not to get confused with any other type of game). From early 90ies with muds and maybe we both played the same games.
You have a military background, and I see that in your post.
I also have 18 years+ of IT business experience. I have delivered services and Data center technology to all kinds of business. 1 of them being a MMO, Project Entropia.
Example of other projects/datacenters being Car companies, goverments, IKEA, Police, etc.

Take responsibility and ownership, that is what a Professional does

.

I completely agree, and here are the fact about ESO.

Facts

These facts, are stated by Zenimax. If you want "proof" of any point, I can link the statements. Anyone can look this up.

• ESO have 5 year plan, and have delivered the first months as stated, advertised and with only minor chances like adding "jerkins" on public requests. They are keeping to their plan. Even against massive criticism from all directions who did NOT know about the FACTS of ESO.
• ESO has many features, which STILL players do not know are FACTS in ESO.
• ESO has no END GAME. It offers high level game play as one of many "features" in ESO.
• ESO game play starts at level 1 and is not intended to END. Your journey, your choices and personal interests are supposed to be evolving and ongoing. Tamriel is always evolving. Current "high level game", will always expand and is not connected to 1 specific game feature, like solo Main quest, Alliance war victories, PvE High end Boss killing. Its all connected via LORE, but NOT the end, not the "only" thing to do.
  
• ESO offers features for all these: RP, Trade skills, Casual play, MMO interaction, Player driven economy, Character advancement (skills and level), Storyline, Quest lines, Exploration, "hidden "things" like treasures, collectives, monsters, useless items, FISHING!, PvP-warfare, PvE single, PvE group, PvE Dungeons on lots of different difficulties, PvE public events that does not require groups, but require more players, like Dolmens. PvE raids like Trials, that does require "elite" players. ALL are connected to Tamriel LORE.
• ALL offered as features. None of them are supposed to be the only way to play, nor have an END. None of them are supposed to be liked by every player!
  
• PvE "old school raids" with grouped 24 people or more, is the ONLY feature ESO do not currently offer, nor released any statements about why, BUT said they will offer. Boss RAIDS like EQ/WoW is something ESO have to work on. This is a correct complaint to do to Zenimax.
  
• ESO game play is NOT END GAME. High level game play is a big "feature" in ESO. A level 35 has just as much game play as a high end player.
• The conflict "pvp" is a feature among many. It is NOT the whole game. Solo players as well as PvP players complains there is not enough to do.
• Fact: There is so much to do in ESO that no one has done it all. If you do not LIKE PvP or Solo, or explore, or Dungeons, THAT has nothing to do with "lack of things to do".

Zenimax management:

• Zenimax have many difference teams that works just like you describe, with a LEAD that makes sure that one new feature will not ruin another. Just because the team for Facial expressions comes up with a great idea that would work for them, they have a Project lead, that make sure all parts works together.
• With 20+ years experience in MMOs, then you know that every addition to an MMO WILL have unknown effects, no matter how much you test. The important part is how they manage fixing and deciding what to release.
• On a business level, they deliver what they sold and service according to their contract. We get, what we paid for, and with an active Subscription, we are to this date, getting delivered as required.

If you search posts during June/July, there where a lot of complaints about why they add new things, and not wait before X is fixed. Zenimax proved how their teams works well, and project lead makes sure they legally deliver what we pay for, and work just like you describe. They deliver as required in the sub.

"Roll back to patch 1.2!!! Don't add more things like Dyes, improved graphics, etc, etc etc."

"Put every Dev working on the same problem!"

Ignorance about how MMO technically works was stunning. The demands where just not pure fiction, but DEMANDING that Zenimax would BREAK their contract and do not deliver as we pay for in the sub?

Assumptions, not facts
The fact that so many people from players, to reviewers and game sites did not know the facts, but made assumptions and claimed "this is what you should do" has ZERO do to with what ESO is.

Zenimax BOLD management

• Zenimax keeps ESO according to their plan, statement and big picture for how ESO "works", even if massive, mostly unfounded comments that ESO would fail, without for example a global AH. Fact: Zenimax was right, and bold enough to keep to their planned economy.
• Zenimax even by public request added housing to their plan, which they repeatedly stated was not going to be in game. Now it is. Stated that when they have a good house "feature" and how it will work, they will release it. It's in the long term plan and no time set, but in year or 2 is "stated".
• Very good and responsible, to not do something this big, that needs to be done well, just to "please" a short term public demand. They want to do it RIGHT. If you have 20+ years experience in MMOs, then you know what happens when a MMO gives in and "breaks" their own game.
  
• ESO plans, long term (5 years) - medium term (1-2 years ahead) and several steps of short term plan (5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months), they TELL us what it is, even in DETAIL. Which is a big risk, since then people expect it right away and gets frustrated if it gets pushed back.
• Zenimax does NOT push back their stated future "features/content" without a good reason. The road ahead explained that the champion system must be done well, and work with future content.
• ESO adds features for all offered areas, in different patches. Level 1-50, as well as high end, quests, new features, etc. ESO does NOT only extend for high level, PvE players for example. Stated as FACTS.

Responsible changes:

• As a military experienced person, you must be familiar with cause and effect. When to execute what plan, order or campaign? Win the battle, but loose the war?
• Zenimax WILL change BIG "features" like the Veteran system if they see it does not work as intended in the long term.
  
• WHEN they make a BIG change like this, they do it properly and with ALL angles in consideration to work in the LONG term. That it will work with future additions. Bug fixing and balancing will always be needed, but the "features" would not have to be redone.
• Zenimax is working "for" ESO, not for players who wants to copy WoW. IF there is a major problem like there was with vampires, they WILL, or already are, getting worked on. Please consider there are upcoming changes and we do not know the long term effects on champion system, upcoming new skills and how that will mix with for example Werewolves.

Zenimax communication with players

• Just because they do not say anything does not mean they do not do anything. This is an unfounded demand and expectation. Sure, I want to know too! But I have no right to demand it! I can ASK for it. (And I have)
• Zenimax have NO obligation what so ever to tell us anything at all. The patch notes are a service they do not charge for, nor are legally bound to release.
• ALL MMOs have almost the same legal document about release of ANY information about their changes/bugs/fixes/misc.
• WoW, since so many like to compare these two completely opposite MMOs, does not release any bug list. You see FIXES in patch notes, but far from all of them.
• Look at ANY MMOs legal service contract and they are almost identical.
  
• VERY few MMO companies has been this close to their community as Zenimax.
• EvE online, Everquest and what I understand from many sources (since I did not play that MMO more then a few weeks) Rift, are among the few MMOs who actively communicates this close to their player base.
• For Example, Blizzard, rightly so, does NOT give ANY information at all by public demand. They choose to release information, when it suit them. This is not wrong. It is what Blizzard choose to do and legally so. There are NO bug list published by Blizzard and updating status.
• ONLY above stated MMOs (Among the 20 or so I've played), even discuss or release bug lists, takes feedback DIRECTLY from players on the forum. Put in on a PUBLIC to do list about BUGS. Only Eve, EQ and what I understand, RIFT even comes close to this.
  
• Patch notes in ANY MMO comes AFTER its live, servers are up and are NEVER complete with all fixes and changes. Note: Even above MMOs do not publish every single fix/change/add in patch notes. They are under no obligation to do so.
• WHY your game works better, is not more important then that it does.
  
• Look at all 3 armor passives the past month. They ALL been tweaked, VERY well. No detailed change has been released about this.
• In previous statements from several Zenimax sources, including Matt Firors Road ahead, "constant balancing", is always one of their prime, ongoing work.
• Zenimax statement about constant balancing of the game and overview of every skill, will always continue.
• Fact: Delivered as promised and keeps doing so.

Responsibility and ownership

• ESO deliver new "content/"things" every 4-6 weeks. This is included in the sub and planned according to the "Type" of MMO ESO is.
• ESO manages their changes with the full picture in mind. Not just change 1 skill to fix 1 problem for 1 group, but creating a Tamriel that is living and evolving, according their plan, what we paid for and what is included in an active subscription.
• Zenimax have not set in stone about WHAT new "content" will be released every 4-6 weeks. It depends on the effects AND ongoing play in Tamriel.
• Like now, they do not just push out something if they suspect future problems with ALREADY made content, planed and included in the big picture, just to "please" people in the short term.
• When they get all the angles on the champion system to slot in with so many future additions, then they release it. This is called taking responsibility AND by the same time keep their service we pay for and release new "content"/"things" every 4-6 weeks (or so).
• ESO is by FAR the cheapest MMO with added expansions I have ever played. 15$ a month for a growing game, new content, new things AND I do not understand HOW they manage to do so well in LORE, quests and in 3 languages! For 15$ a month!?
• As an IT business man, I would charge for Dyes, the new PvP zone and the Arena, since these 3 works in ESO with or without them. 15$ a month. That less then food for 1 day.
  
• Zenimax statement about constant balancing of the game, overview of every skill, and listening to feedback from the ESO community, will always continue. Fact: Delivered as promised and keep doing so.

Conclusion:
Zenimax are professional, responsible, deliver as required and communicates very well with the growing ESO community.

15$ a month for all this, is not only well worth the money, but by far one of the cheapest MMO with so much high quality content. With even MORE that we know will get included, without having to pay for an expansion.

Everything can always get better and improve.

If any part needs to get better, it is us, who needs to communicate better with Zenimax. Less assumption, more facts, and look at ESO as the whole game.
Not only the problem YOU have.

USE the bug report in game. Don't just post here and expect a fix.

Us players have 3 great ways to communicate all kinds of information to Zenimax. Use them all 3 for the same subject.
1. In game feedback/report
2. Post here
3. PTS server - Use it for TESTING, not only to look whats new.

Boomjackal

As a PVP player this looks absolute dog sh*t and im now unsubscribing until something decent comes out to bring me back to the game. Such a let down.

Boomjackal

@cogo As an ex military man myself from one ex solider to another that garbage that you just wrote is as i said GARBAGE. Transparency in a company is the most important thing to sucess and admitting when you are wrong or have made a mistake. Please take your head from Corperate but cheeks please thats how this world is in this mess. You remind me of a wallstreet banker.

To many this game was mis-sold as on the back of the case it tells you the minimum and recomended system requirements to play this game and the majority of players exceed these requirements but cant play a decent game of PVP because of the aweful coding.

Cogo

Boomjackal wrote: »

@cogo As an ex military man myself from one ex solider to another that garbage that you just wrote is as i said GARBAGE. Transparency in a company is the most important thing to sucess and admitting when you are wrong or have made a mistake. Please take your head from Corperate but cheeks please thats how this world is in this mess. You remind me of a wallstreet banker.

To many this game was mis-sold as on the back of the case it tells you the minimum and recomended system requirements to play this game and the majority of players exceed these requirements but cant play a decent game of PVP because of the aweful coding.

Hi.

I am trying to see it from your perspective. As I am not a pvp player, but ESO have made me into a warfare player. I do spend quite a bit in Cyro, because of the warfare. 3v3 pvp where only your gear, setup, build, and yes, how FAST you where as a player, would matter. No interest to me.

Cyro blown my mind. Its WARFARE. Still, you do get small numbers fighting and I lost count how many times I've been right off murdered while running alone somewhere.

You are stating that the game was "miss-sold". Again, I am sorry, but did you know about what ESO was? The alliance conflict and warfare in Cyro is ONE of many features in ESO. It is meant to attract and be fun, but Cyrodiil is ONE thing to do in ESO. Id say 10-15% of ESO is PvP related. This will increase with Justice system and the new Zone.
Sure, if someone only likes pvp, then they have Cyrodiil. But complaining that ESO lacks content......simply, did you read about it before you bought it?

ESO is NOT a PVP game. It has a conflict among 3 alliances and is connected to the LORE and everything else in ESO. Your alliance ARE calling for you to fight for dominance over Tamriel, but you HAVE to know about the BASE feature in ESO
"Choose your way". Sure, you can play and dont pvp at all, but then you miss 10-15% of the game! Also, you miss one of the most fun zones in the game. The PvE part in Cyro is really cool! With the added feature that Cyro IS the most dangerous PvE zone in the game. Even more then Graglorn. Why? Because there are other alliances who are your enemy and can at any point be a threat or outright kill you.

I dont want to get killed, but I LOVE the thrill of doing PvE in Cyro because of the constant danger!


Minimum and recomended system requirements
I am sorry, but either I am one of the few lucky, but a part from during July, when cyrodiil and grouping in general was a BIG ISSUE that was a bug, and took a damn MONTH to fix, I have very, if any, little lag in Cyrodiil.

I did notice that quite a few had problems in Cyro when it comes to lag, switching weapons etc. But I was not among them.

I should note, I ONLY do big fights. Either protect a keep or siege one.
ONLY in 40 man groups, and I prefer MORE around.
I do, not lag. I did not lag before the "lag" bug that gave everyone 5 fps.
That is fixed now.

Minimum and recommended requirements means that you can play the game. It does not mean it works lag free, with lots of addons, graphics on high, etc.

Also, if you are a technical person, you would know that those with AMD and not intel got worse performance because of Microsoft support.

This does not apply to everyone, but I have helped a few friends and guild members who had problems with lag, with simple computer suggestions you can do. CCleaner, dust off your computer, check your ram bus speed and the big thing, what is installed on your machine, how many "services" are running from browsers (even when they are not "on")

If you do know what ESO is, what Cyrodiil is and expected to play as it is featured, then I do wonder, again, why do I not lag with 200 players around me and you do?
My system is 3 years old, but set for gaming. SSD drive, 16GB ram on 1666hz bus. Only I7 quad CPU. But I am lucky there cause Microsoft supports that so I utilize my older CPU better then newer more expensive AMDs one. Go hit MS for that! My GPU is radeon 6950HD, which is the "worst" of the "best" GPU you can have. I will buy a new card when ESO starts to lag for me. It doesn't....

So again, what bad coding do you mean, and why do I not lag?

Pantherin

@Cogo‌

Brother, that is a lot of words to say you disagree with what I said.

I can't deny those words were spoken and written, as I have heard and read them as well. I like many other people signed on and jumped on board with the program because of those words and amazing videos. A lot of Smoke and Mirrors.

As a Ex-Military Man (Thank you for your Service, and standing on the line with me, when you were called), you know it is not about words...it is all about results.

Do you feel this game is where it should be?

Do you feel there is balance in the classes?

Do you still run through the the game / quests and see things not working - Since Beta?

I could go on...but I won't because I already know the answer.

I did not write this to complain, I wrote it because I care and wanted to offer a solution, a possible way to help get things on the right path.

I respect and honor your opinion and passion for this game.

I love it as well, or I would not be doing this...I want it to succeed and I want it to thrive.

I am tired of watching title after title fall due to poor management and not taking care of the small details.

As you know it is the small details that will make or break an operation or program, and it is breaking this one...in my opinion.

Why are people leaving?

Why are people complaining, and are their complaints valid?

You do not have to answer...I already know the answer, it is found all over these forums...the community is crying out...

We need to stop the open chest wound, and not with band-aids , smoke and mirrors we have been seeing....

One final note and I am moving on...

If what they were doing was working, would I even need to write this?

Auricle

@Pantherin
Not to be inflammatory, but how is military service directly related to MMO management..? I come from a military family, and I have respect for the job, but I fail to see how a military occupation gives your opinion more clout than anyone else's in this particular area. If anything, the hyperbolic comparisons of 'open chest wound' to the current issues makes me take you less seriously.

To answer your question: people are complaining because they CAN. It's the internet, after all, the realm of anonymous ego-inflating and entitlement-touting. Not to say your points are not valid, but a lot of people whine because they have too much spare time and a serious lack of perspective. ESO has been out for less than half a year. Did you play WoW in the first six months after release? It was a crapshoot! I find myself agreeing with @Cogo in that ZoS does seem to be addressing some of the larger problems, if in their slow, cautious way. They care enough to think things through and, personally, I really appreciate that quality.

That said, you have the right to your opinion and I really do hope the game delivers for you someday soon.

Cogo

Pantherin wrote: »

@Cogo‌

Brother, that is a lot of words to say you disagree with what I said.

I can't deny those words were spoken and written, as I have heard and read them as well. I like many other people signed on and jumped on board with the program because of those words and amazing videos. A lot of Smoke and Mirrors.

As a Ex-Military Man (Thank you for your Service, and standing on the line with me, when you were called), you know it is not about words...it is all about results.

Do you feel this game is where it should be?

Do you feel there is balance in the classes?

Do you still run through the the game / quests and see things not working - Since Beta?

I could go on...but I won't because I already know the answer.

I did not write this to complain, I wrote it because I care and wanted to offer a solution, a possible way to help get things on the right path.

I respect and honor your opinion and passion for this game.

I love it as well, or I would not be doing this...I want it to succeed and I want it to thrive.

I am tired of watching title after title fall due to poor management and not taking care of the small details.

As you know it is the small details that will make or break an operation or program, and it is breaking this one...in my opinion.

Why are people leaving?

Why are people complaining, and are their complaints valid?

You do not have to answer...I already know the answer, it is found all over these forums...the community is crying out...

We need to stop the open chest wound, and not with band-aids , smoke and mirrors we have been seeing....

One final note and I am moving on...

If what they were doing was working, would I even need to write this?

If you took your time and read through my post, which I think you did, you have my respect sir. We are allowed to disagree and even have completely different experiences and views of ESO. I'll start with that so you do not think I am saying you are wrong in any way.

I wrote this, to keep it to facts, and not my opinion. For me, Facts speaks for themselves. But we are humans....and humans have as many different views on the same "fact" as there are people on the planet

I am tired of watching title after title fall due to poor management and not taking care of the small details.

Me too!!! Sorry for another long reply, but I feel I like to explain and reply properly to you.

I feel ESO is JUST where it supposed to be, what they said it would be and even feel secure after the Road ahead. Lets see the coming months. I am VERY excited, but I have no problem waiting for a content, to get quality, instead of quantity and not so good.

The past 5-7 YEARS, Ive seen MMO after MMO fail because they start with something, but give in and copy WoW.

SWTOR did not, BUT what we did not know about that MMO was that even before launch, their business plan was: Release, Sub for 1 year or how long it works, then go Free-to-play.

They had NO plan at launch about how to develop the MMO, only how to do business wise. Very SAD cause with Zenimax BOLDNESS to keep to their plan, even if people SCREAMS for AH, or Arena PvP a la WoW. Its not in ESO plans, structure or type.

I say that NOW, ESO has put themselves on the MMO map as one of the main MMO with its own "type", like Eve, Rift or hell, even WoW. WoW is the master in that TYPE of MMO. Lets see if Wildstar can keep their style and not go WoW as well.

People do not realize that MMOs can be very different and not have the same players at all, but still be successful. Sure, I do not think ESO will get millions and millions of subs like WoW. But I doubt that is in Zenimax business plan.
They plan long term. A steady flow of incoming revenue, as a subscription gives you. Creates a very simple way for Zenimax to know what to spend on.

Balancing.
Have you looked at stamina drains and armor passives the past weeks? They ninja changes a lot. Its pretty damn "balanced" now. More to do, yes. But DKs in a robe with a stick, isnt "the best" anymore. They really are balancing, constantly.

Regarding questing. I do that daily, and find it extremely enjoyable. Phasing is pretty much "fixed". Sure there are solo quests, but that's for a reason. There are almost no problems teaming and questing when you are on different quests and in different stages.

EU server is growling like hell. All areas is flooding with players. And most are new to ESO. Even new to MMOs. ESO simply got it RIGHT and created a new type that was like no other MMO. Sure, they took the best parts from several MMOs and included it in ESO. BUT, everything is connected and have a purpose. If you read lore books or bookshelves, there is not ONE thats just "junk" text. Everything is connected to something.

EU server is very healthy, growing and just like EQ, most zones over level 20, you have to look hard to find rude people or junk spamming. A vast majority of the players are "nice". People help, chitchat in zone, and at times its pleasant just to log in and chat in guild, as well as in zone chat.

I can only speak for EU server, but I do public groups from time to time. A good way to find possible guild members. Most Vet dungeon groups works fine, even if we fail. Questing with someone is starting to be almost normal.

The number of players who are leaving the game is so different to the numbers who are staying and gaining. You see negative comments only because most players in ESO is PLAYING the game. They do not "level". Level in ESO is secondary to everything else. Only a very small group are only interested in rushing to Vet 12 and then.....I don't even know why.

I did not write this to complain, I wrote it because I care and wanted to offer a solution, a possible way to help get things on the right path.

As you should! But, on these forums, the majority is not happy players. They do not even go here. My guild got 60 players or so. Not ONE of them goes here. They are busy playing the game and even how much I Bang the drum to look at this post or these news......they don't. Because they are having fun in the game.

If you do like the game and are concerned, there are 2 facts that can ease that.
1. Console launch. Why is that important? WAY to much money to not do this for Zenimax. Even if ESO would not succeed as a MMO on Consoles in the long term, its a HUGE influx of revenue, and that's good for ESO as a whole!
2. The game is stable now. No matter what people say here, very few in game have problems with lag, crashes, etc. With a stable game like ESO, that offers so many things. Its here to stay.

Thursdays, EU server had a downtime for 2 hours because it was VERY laggy the past few days. But it was server lag. You know that when you lag, but when it "starts" again, you are not dead. The game moves on from where it started to lag. This is because to many players for the Data center resources.
The fix is to add resources. Friday, no lag, what so ever!

Enough with my large posts. Are you sure, that ESO are loosing more players then they are gaining and keeping? Have you played lately? Make an alt, play a bit. Team up and do quests. Try a build thats considered "wrong". Nightblade with medium and 2 heavy with a 2H. That MUST be the worst, right?

You may find yourself surprised.

I hope if you belive at least half what I say here, that you might consider the negative posts on these forums, not to be the general feeling about ESO among the players.

Pantherin

Auricle wrote: »

@Pantherin
Not to be inflammatory, but how is military service directly related to MMO management..? I come from a military family, and I have respect for the job, but I fail to see how a military occupation gives your opinion more clout than anyone else's in this particular area. If anything, the hyperbolic comparisons of 'open chest wound' to the current issues makes me take you less seriously.

To answer your question: people are complaining because they CAN. It's the internet, after all, the realm of anonymous ego-inflating and entitlement-touting. Not to say your points are not valid, but a lot of people whine because they have too much spare time and a serious lack of perspective. ESO has been out for less than half a year. Did you play WoW in the first six months after release? It was a crapshoot! I find myself agreeing with @Cogo in that ZoS does seem to be addressing some of the larger problems, if in their slow, cautious way. They care enough to think things through and, personally, I really appreciate that quality.

That said, you have the right to your opinion and I really do hope the game delivers for you someday soon.

@Auricle‌

It is not inflammatory at all...and a valid question.

Management is Management.

Whether you are managing people, property, or resources. The process is basically the same. There are certain expectations and requirements, tracking mechanisms, standards and time-lines. Preparing for a mission is no different than planning an event, such as a trip to Kings Island. Sure there are different degrees and potential dire consequences; doing a combat mission, but the core elements are the same.

Lists are made, pre-planning is conducted, routes are planned, money is set aside, accountability is conducted, people are assigned tasks and everyone works together as a Team, there is also a check and balance to ensure everything is in place and ready to go; so you don't leave something or someone behind.

When things go great, folks are praised and rewarded, and when things go wrong, they are pulled aside and shown how they can improve...with positive reinforcement.

All the elements are there...You just have to know what you are looking for and what you want those end results to be.

I can only use the experience I have as a Soldier as a basis, that is all I have ever known. It was not an attempt to gather clout, but more of an attempt to show whom ever would read and listen a possible way to put the developers back on the right path. A method that has been tested time and time again...and produces results.

We call it the Military Decision Making Process (MDMP) and if you have been through it, you would know it is painful, long, detailed, intense and it works...period.

I could see a Corporation greatly benefiting from such a process...and highly recommend they seek out the training. It will improve anyone's management capability.

Obviously, what they are doing is not working, and it is time to do something different before it is too late.

Yea the open chest wound comment was a bit much...but I do feel like the game is bleeding out...losing members left and right, guilds - whole guilds dropping subscriptions...I could have left that out...it was a bit dramatic; in hindsight.

Thank you for making me a better Leader today.

Cogo

Pantherin wrote: »

When things go great, folks are praised and rewarded, and when things go wrong, they are pulled aside and shown how they can improve...with positive reinforcement.

All the elements are there...You just have to know what you are looking for and what you want those end results to be.

I can only use the experience I have as a Soldier as a basis, that is all I have ever known. It was not an attempt to gather clout, but more of an attempt to show whom ever would read and listen a possible way to put the developers back on the right path. A method that has been tested time and time again...and produces results.

We call it the Military Decision Making Process (MDMP) and if you have been through it, you would know it is painful, long, detailed, intense and it works...period.

I could see a Corporation greatly benefiting from such a process...and highly recommend they seek out the training. It will improve anyone's management capability.

Obviously, what they are doing is not working, and it is time to do something different before it is too late.

How are you so sure that what Zenimax is doing, is not working?

MMO works a bit differently today then they did 10 years ago. One big change is the lesser use of forums. In EQ/AO/EvE/Rift/Wow early days.....forums was used by most players, or at least viewed.

Todays MMO player does not use forums. We have become a minor group and I "Think" it is because the IT technology advancement and daily use of "Smart phones". These have more or less replaced both the laptop, online communities, sitting at your computer to browse and forums.

I am an "oldie" and cant keep away from forums, but all my friends, co-workers, clients and pretty much everyone else is using the phone for everything.

Sure, you play games on PC or consoles, but communication, people simply do via their phone by "default".

Just because these forums are filled with gloom and negativity, does not mean the vasts majority of the players agrees with this.

When a MMO works well and everyone is happy, then there is no huge praise. Only busy players. Maybe this is what you are worried for, because of the lack of "positive" posts here?

There is actually several posts on these forums that "attacks" anyone who posts any positive, because, and I quote "These forums are for players to vent their disapointment with the MMO.

Not one post, but quite a lot. Do a search. I don't understand that logic but I am for free speach in any form, so I can not say that's wrong, even if it makes no sense to me that forums are ONLY for venting negativity.

Why are you so sure that ESO is on the wrong path and will not go on?
I am seriously curious about your reasons.

I am curious because you are not just venting, and reading your posts, I do really believe that you are honest and want ESO to succeed.

MartinXKid

I had nearly forgotten why I even hyped for a whole year following fan-sites news and podcasts until finally bought this game. There are many MMOs out there and the only one I've played was WoW for 2 years (Also a whole year of playing Runescape but that's more of a memory I'd like to bury now) and I wanted to play an MMO that appealed to me. ESO was the one I wanted to play.

As I'm still leveling (lvl.43) I've been going back to the forums to check out what the community had to say. Talks about only issues and bugs and quitting nearly got to me. ESO might not have these awesome Raids/Arenas/BGs like WoW but if I wanted them I would of played WoW. What ESO has to offer is exactly what I wanted. This Elder Scroll experience in an MMO. It's not pitch perfect I know this as a fact that the launch of an MMO is always very troublesome but what this game offers is more of what I thought an MMO could ever do in the style like ESO. Maybe there's other MMOs you would like to suggest to me, and I'd be pleased but as of now, ESO is my game.

I didn't know of ZOS plannings or even how they even plan to do things or manage their contents and updates but one thing for sure I see is that they are indeed bold to continue having updates every 4-6 weeks and stick to what ESO is and what everyone would wished and envisioned ESO to become in the long term.

Now it would still be too soon to say if ESO is going downhill or uphill and in following months there will still be new Updates and bugs and tweaks to be done but we do get what we wished ESO to have. I hope still that when I will finally hit Veteran levels that most of these "Core issues" or "Class/weapon build Unbalance issues" everyone in the Forum is chatting about would be resolved by then. I always thought ESO to be more of a casual MMO touch then WoW. I don't need to rush to max level with all classes and so taking my time is actually the best thing for me and I'm still having fun! We'll see by then if Craglorn, Veteran dungeons and finally Cyrodiil at Veteran level is for me or not.

Pantherin

@Cogo‌

I has seen it with my own eyes, experienced it through game play. Take the NB for example: My main Character. I am a Stamina based build, all stamina to get maximum damage, playing how I want to play, and with max stamina, one would believe you would get max, burst DPS....right?

Wrong, I have used the class as it is designed and I am getting owned, even when I have the advantage, I lose because I am not doing enough damage. I roll to avoid the bazillion AoE spams (using my main damage stat) further draining my abilities, and I still get owned...

Now I will conceded I am not the best PvP player, but by the law of averages, I should have won a few of those fights. I hit first, I hit hard and I hit fast from stealth...9 times out of 10...they can block all my damage, heal through it, blink away, or spam fire nova.

Tonight there was a lone DK on a ridge attacking a keep, I attacked him from stealth using everything I had, 6 consecutive times, with a Bow and With my blades, I could not do anything to him. He killed me all 6 times and continued to attack the keep. He didn't even move, he just waited for me to return, like he was not even concerned.


To me that is not working...I do not mind losing, and learning from my mistakes, but losing every time...is frustrating.

That is just one example of the many walls of text I could go into.



I am concerned because legitimate complaints are not being addressed. For example, in PvP tonight, the lag was so rubber band horrible for awhile it was unplayable...It was not my system or internet either as others were having the same issue.

I observed a :red: on a horse...glide across the land with speed it was not supposed to have...I mean fast...I saw it on two separate occasions.

I saw an enemy with 7 or 8 people on him and he did not drop...and killed them all, I watched it from stealth...I should have recorded it so I could post it...


As I stated originally, a lot of smoke and mirrors, pushing out new content and the old stuff is still broken...details, game breaking details, in my opinion, are being over looked.


Absolutely!

I am old, single and love this game...it is what I do...when I am not in uniform.

DyingBreed

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Road2insanity777 wrote: »

What a joke... how about pushing core game mechanics over aesthetics & ruining everyone's gear. just a though....

No one ruining your gear but I love the idea of loyalty program. There is too many crybaby people ending their subs too quick. It would be nice have something to symbolize that you have been here for a long time even if just aesthetically.

To many crybabies that are paying 15 dollars a month to play a beta at best really.then you contact them with a in game problem at it is like you are a bother.you pay my 15dollars a month and everyone else that is having problems and they will not cry again but when you play 60-80 dollars for a game and 15 dollars a month you want a playable game not a alpha or beta game a finished game and this game is still far from finished.Items in the guild bank do not stack cant use group finder and if you try to make a group you lose leader and have to start all over things that have been in games for over a decade but not they add color dyes and fix the lighting in build and other stupid stuff before fixing tools that people WOULD and do use or try to use EVERYDAY.that is why they have lost over 1.5 Million people so far and lots more leaving everyday.

DyingBreed

Cogo wrote: »

Awesome!

I want to add a very wierd complaint. As well as my thanks to Zenimax for proving ESO works and keeps to their plan.

Zenimax have done outstanding work with armor passives, phasing, questing and general bug fixing in game.

WHY are you not saying anything about these more or less fantastic improvements? I wouldn't mind if a Zeni com manager answer this.

The balance Zenimax have done in the past month has more or less balanced the previous problems with only players "in robes with a stick". Sure, there is more to do, but WHY not say anything when you do these really good changes?

Are you guys not Americans? Brag! (I am Swedish, we are too meek to brag)

Psst, regarding the EU server, Its getting crowded in the game and that causes server lag, which is fixable with added resources. The game is very stable. More players equals more resources! Do not let the "suits" stop you from expanding.

This summery proves to me that ESO is here to stay and have created a "new" Type of MMO, as stated, announced and delivered. Even through huge criticism from all kinds of directions. I can only explain this with one word "Bold".

• Its very ensuring that Zenimax keeps to their plan, not doing anything in haste, but in tweaks and work as much as possible before they release new "content", as promised every 4-6 weeks. I rather wait a week and get a well designed justice system, then rush it and get unknown effects.
  
• Since the content is included in the subscription, I as a customer, really feel I am getting a lot for the subscription and feel secure in future additions.
  
• Would it not make sense to put the justice system AND Imperial City in the same Patch? I am sure there are reasons why these are separated.
• I suspect that the big project of making the Champion system balanced and work in the long term (Like EQ AA did very well) is a big reason behind it, and understandable. This is not an easy request, but may be worth considering, since the 2 systems will not interfear with eachother. (Or maybe they will?)
  
• The thieves guild was always said to be implemented in game when then justice system is in place. Even though this makes perfect sense, I do feel, however, that the Thieves guild should get priority since its a very welcomed and anticipated "content" from more or less the whole ESO community.
• The delay of the thieves guild, I can also understand is connected to how the Champion system will work. (new skills to consider. Balance.)
  
• As a player who played since launch, I am very happy with ESO and Zenimax management of the MMO. Keep it up!

Just keep the blinders on because you are paying for a beta game along with the other 3 that agreed.

Pantherin

DyingBreed wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Awesome!

I want to add a very wierd complaint. As well as my thanks to Zenimax for proving ESO works and keeps to their plan.

Zenimax have done outstanding work with armor passives, phasing, questing and general bug fixing in game.

WHY are you not saying anything about these more or less fantastic improvements? I wouldn't mind if a Zeni com manager answer this.

The balance Zenimax have done in the past month has more or less balanced the previous problems with only players "in robes with a stick". Sure, there is more to do, but WHY not say anything when you do these really good changes?

Are you guys not Americans? Brag! (I am Swedish, we are too meek to brag)

Psst, regarding the EU server, Its getting crowded in the game and that causes server lag, which is fixable with added resources. The game is very stable. More players equals more resources! Do not let the "suits" stop you from expanding.

This summery proves to me that ESO is here to stay and have created a "new" Type of MMO, as stated, announced and delivered. Even through huge criticism from all kinds of directions. I can only explain this with one word "Bold".

• Its very ensuring that Zenimax keeps to their plan, not doing anything in haste, but in tweaks and work as much as possible before they release new "content", as promised every 4-6 weeks. I rather wait a week and get a well designed justice system, then rush it and get unknown effects.
  
• Since the content is included in the subscription, I as a customer, really feel I am getting a lot for the subscription and feel secure in future additions.
  
• Would it not make sense to put the justice system AND Imperial City in the same Patch? I am sure there are reasons why these are separated.
• I suspect that the big project of making the Champion system balanced and work in the long term (Like EQ AA did very well) is a big reason behind it, and understandable. This is not an easy request, but may be worth considering, since the 2 systems will not interfear with eachother. (Or maybe they will?)
  
• The thieves guild was always said to be implemented in game when then justice system is in place. Even though this makes perfect sense, I do feel, however, that the Thieves guild should get priority since its a very welcomed and anticipated "content" from more or less the whole ESO community.
• The delay of the thieves guild, I can also understand is connected to how the Champion system will work. (new skills to consider. Balance.)
  
• As a player who played since launch, I am very happy with ESO and Zenimax management of the MMO. Keep it up!

Just keep the blinders on because you are paying for a beta game along with the other 3 that agreed.

I have to agree it does still feel like a beta test...as we are essentially and continuously testing their product.

You have a valid point.

This morning, out there in PvP, name plates disappear, and I can't tell who is the enemy...a simple setting in the game mechanics; still broken.

Auricle

DyingBreed wrote: »

Just keep the blinders on because you are paying for a beta game along with the other 3 that agreed.

So let's say a new restaurant opened in your area, and you went to try it out. Do you feel as if you should not pay for the meal because the establishment is new and untested, despite the hard work that went into opening it?

Or, maybe, a new magazine comes out, in a subject area you find interesting. Should it be free because you found a typo on page three and an article you disagreed with on page twelve?

My point here is simply that ESO is a complex creation that many, many people have poured their blood, sweat and tears into. No, it is not perfect. Perfection is an unobtainable goal. What you're paying for is the experience of Tamriel, and for the chance to be a part of the game's evolution. MMOs are never released as 'finished products'. They are not static. That is why so many people devote so much time to them, because you never know what's just around the corner.

You claim we're paying for a beta game. So what? I may not be perfectly happy with every single element of ESO, but I am more than willing to pay people to continue developing it. If every person stopped contributing towards anything they were not one hundred percent satisfied with, there would be no roads, no hospitals, no society.

Be open to the world and the world shall open up to you. In MMOs and IRL.