Official Discussion Thread for "The Road Ahead - August 20"

lavosslayer

I just really want the thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood in the game. It just doesn't quite feel like Elder Scrolls without them. Those two guilds are what make the franchise so fun for me and not having them makes me feel kind of uninterested at the moment.

Ilterendi

I love this game, but reading "stay tuned for update X and keep sending us your money" is really disheartening. Especially considering the current state of abilities that are heavily bugged, in all classes but worse as a Nightblade. I'm finding more and more that I'm having less interest in playing, mostly because it seems that developers are not perceptive at providing accurate and balanced skills and combat. I understand devs want to go slow, but the snail's pace needs a kick in the ass and booster rockets. Spell crit and melee crit should be incorporated into just Crit, for starters. I haven't canceled my sub yet, the loyalty program doesn't interest me in the slightest, but after this vague update on the game I'm closer to doing it.

Greybarren

lavosslayer wrote: »

I just really want the thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood in the game. It just doesn't quite feel like Elder Scrolls without them. Those two guilds are what make the franchise so fun for me and not having them makes me feel kind of uninterested at the moment.

Very much agreed, as the game as it stands very much lacks that shadier side gameplay. Hopefully somewhere along with the Justice System, as that seems to be the natural tie-in.

While the grouping improvements are nice, still generally disappointed at the lack of mention towards roleplay phasing. This feature, promised via the dropped playstyle survey in the pre-release days, has generally fallen to the wayside it seems.

Road2insanity777

What a joke... how about pushing core game mechanics over aesthetics & ruining everyone's gear. just a though....

Darkonflare15

Road2insanity777 wrote: »

What a joke... how about pushing core game mechanics over aesthetics & ruining everyone's gear. just a though....

No one ruining your gear but I love the idea of loyalty program. There is too many crybaby people ending their subs too quick. It would be nice have something to symbolize that you have been here for a long time even if just aesthetically.

Tyr

You heard it here folks, no Justice System until December and no Theives Guild or Dark Brotherhood until next year and no Wrothgar(new PVE solo zone until late spring or summer.

We'll be lucky if we get everything announced at quakecon before the next quakecon.

Talrenos

“Expect to see soon”: new facial animation system, improved grouping, fixes to player separation issues

“Expect to see in a while”: Imperial City, Champion System

“Expect to see later”: Justice System, Spellcrafting

he forgot one, "Expect to never see": Werewolf Changes

Arsenic_Touch

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

They really need to get busy on having character copies on the PTS instead of templates if they A: want more people testing, B: want better results with fine tuning trials

One of the biggest PTS complaints is their complete lack of tools available to test the content. A template of one race with end game gear at that point and nothing else does not equate to a proper testing environment, especially when they introduce things that have absolutely nothing to do with that stuff.

So I find it deeply amusing that they're calling for more testers when they won't give testers the proper testing tools. It's like giving someone a hammer and expecting them to paint.

ThePonzzz

I said this over on TESO Elite, but I'll repeat here.

I'd be more willing to using the PTS if I felt feedback had more weighting. As it stands, plenty of stuff reported on the PTS isn't acknowledged and eventually hits the live instances of the game, where it becomes a problem. If I felt my time was more valued, I'd be on board.

During one of the PTS updates, ZOS claimed some of the achievement bugs were fixed. Many people there claimed it wasn't fixed at all. The following week, they rolled that patch into the live instances, still claiming the achievement bug was fixed, but yet it wasn't. Along with some other issues that everyone on the PTS were explaining were still not fixed. For me, and many others, it just felt like the PTS was just to determine if the game was stable, and were not taking feedback from the players.

This could have changed since, I haven't really logged in after that, and I stopped reading the PTS forums. If I felt my time was being spent helping test and point out issues, I'd probably try it again.

Arsenic_Touch

ThePonzzz wrote: »

This could have changed since, I haven't really logged in after that, and I stopped reading the PTS forums. If I felt my time was being spent helping test and point out issues, I'd probably try it again.

From what I've seen, no it hasn't changed and probably won't change. Honestly I look at the PTS for any game as lip service to showcase what they're doing and letting people get a jump on it so they don't feel bored. Some things will get fixed, but some glaring things always make it through and it leaves one scratching their head.

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

Yes, I would like to know when we will see the changes to the werewolf skill line? This was the 1st question asked in the Q&A at QuakeCon, but you have failed to mention it here. I, and a suppose many others, have been waiting patiently for some updated information on what was put out at QuakeCon.

Agobi

Enjinir wrote: »

TL;DR:

Update 4 and Eu Server Migration happened.
Update 5 may have some Combat System Tweaks.
Please report bugs and play PTS.
Loyalty Program is coming at some point.
Leaderboards will be reset and may be based on points in the future.
Things still without a solid timeframe: Facial animations, improved grouping, fixes to player separation issues, Imperial City, Champion System, Justice System, Spellcrafting.

On a bright note, ZOS has two new trademarks to add to "Soon(TM)," with the newly introduced "In a While (TM)" and "Later (TM)"

Good summary

I felt like I was watching the Generic news™

"this just in; Some things have happened...and some other things are going to happen sometime in the future....stay tuned fore more!" o.O

marcmyb14_ESO

Disappointed that there was not a single mention of class/build balance. The biggest problem in this game IMO is that one of its biggest selling points is "play how you want", yet most groups will force you to play a certain way only because that's the most optimal. Granted there will always be some builds that will be more optimal than others but the issue is that there's too great of a gap between them. You gave us (practically free) resets for a week because you supposedly balanced builds, yet the light armor/destruction staff build is still the most in demand because it's too easy to spam AOE fire skills that do tons of damage and not have to worry about mechanics. Plain and simple: MAKE ALL BUILDS VIABLE. This is the ONE main reason I quit in the first place after Craglorn was released, I just resubbed a few weeks ago and guess what? I'm quitting again. I made a Dragonknight to be a tank/twohanded melee. I can't play how I want and it pisses me off. Fix it or be done with it. Here's an idea. How about giving us more skills to choose from each line? That's a good start.

LtCrunch

marcmyb14_ESO wrote: »

Disappointed that there was not a single mention of class/build balance. The biggest problem in this game IMO is that one of its biggest selling points is "play how you want", yet most groups will force you to play a certain way only because that's the most optimal. Granted there will always be some builds that will be more optimal than others but the issue is that there's too great of a gap between them. You gave us (practically free) resets for a week because you supposedly balanced builds, yet the light armor/destruction staff build is still the most in demand because it's too easy to spam AOE fire skills that do tons of damage and not have to worry about mechanics. Plain and simple: MAKE ALL BUILDS VIABLE. This is the ONE main reason I quit in the first place after Craglorn was released, I just resubbed a few weeks ago and guess what? I'm quitting again. I made a Dragonknight to be a tank/twohanded melee. I can't play how I want and it pisses me off. Fix it or be done with it. Here's an idea. How about giving us more skills to choose from each line? That's a good start.

You can play how you want just fine, if people won't take you into their group(s) due to your build then kindly tell them to "[snip] off" and surround yourself with others that want to just play their own way and not just use the FOTM/most optimal build(s). Realistically speaking we can't expect any and all builds to be optimally effective. We should however expect them to be viable, most of them are.

Stamina builds are as viable as they've ever been due to ability and passive tweaks along with many more stamina friendly gear sets. It's not Zeni's fault that elitism is a common thing when it comes to MMO communities.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official discussion thread for the blog article The Road Ahead - August 20. We hope you enjoyed this latest update from our Game Director Matt Firor!

Hire real testers please stop relying on people who only play pts to find exploits they can use on unsuspecting "noobs" in Cyrodiil.

You can't expect your client to do a 50k per year job for you for free.

I don't mean to sound negative here but Lets face it, the imbalance and bug struggles you have been going through have a root cause.

LtCrunch

Ilterendi wrote: »

I love this game, but reading "stay tuned for update X and keep sending us your money" is really disheartening. Especially considering the current state of abilities that are heavily bugged, in all classes but worse as a Nightblade. I'm finding more and more that I'm having less interest in playing, mostly because it seems that developers are not perceptive at providing accurate and balanced skills and combat. I understand devs want to go slow, but the snail's pace needs a kick in the ass and booster rockets. Spell crit and melee crit should be incorporated into just Crit, for starters. I haven't canceled my sub yet, the loyalty program doesn't interest me in the slightest, but after this vague update on the game I'm closer to doing it.

Would you rather they didn't detail their future plans in such detail to give us paying subscribers such a clear picture of what the game is going to become? ZOS set a goal to release major new content every 4-6 weeks, like many other MMO devs. The difference is that ZOS have actually managed to consistently achieve that goal.

If you don't feel like they're adding enough new content to justify your subscription I have to wonder if any MMO could please you in that department.

Lionxoft

HippieTheGreat wrote: »

Good to see the road ahead. Kinda sad the justice system and spellcrafting are regulated to "later" though. Really waiting on those 2 systems.

Nice update though, looking forward to seeing whats coming.

An Elder Scrolls game without the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild is not an Elder Scrolls game. This is kind of frustrating disappointing.

LtCrunch

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official discussion thread for the blog article The Road Ahead - August 20. We hope you enjoyed this latest update from our Game Director Matt Firor!

Hire real testers please stop relying on people who only play pts to find exploits they can use on unsuspecting "noobs" in Cyrodiil.

You can't expect your client to do a 50k per year job for you for free.

I don't mean to sound negative here but Lets face it, the imbalance and bug struggles you have been going through have a root cause.

50k a year? Please tell me you're joking, you have to be joking. If you're not you are extremely misinformed. Every other MMO on the market has a PTS for testing new content, it ensures more testing in a shorter time-frame; which of course means the new content will get to the live servers much more quickly. The more people you have testing new content the higher the chances that some previously unknown issues will come to light and can be fixed before the new content goes live. It's not like this is a new idea, in fact it's pretty standard.

keto3000

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

They really need to get busy on having character copies on the PTS instead of templates if they A: want more people testing, B: want better results with fine tuning trials

Soon™. Really!

As a first time MMOer and an iMac user. I suspect that many players, like me, are concerned that downloading the PTS may impact fps and performance on their regular game. I finally took the chance and downloaded it (PTS) so I can participate in testing, too. I am now experiencing download problems (repair mode looping) with the PTS server...

Still, I am really enjoying my game time, forums, new friends and the whole ESO experience!

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Well, aside from the loyalty program, this is pretty much a "watch the quakecon stream" ad. ^^

Which is good in my opinion, that stream got me and many others very hyped.

However, some issues haven't been addressed in a while. I understand the need to focus on the positive in a front page post, but existing players already know why they love the game.

Can we get an "Elder Talk, with <appointed person>" segment?
Something focused in addressing known issues. Perhaps in a subforum, so that it is available but not front and center.

For instance, others mentionned werewolves, but we also still don't have news about the target cap removal or immovable limitation.
Werewolves and PvPers may be a small subset of the playerbase, but their chosen playstyle are in practice ruined by those issues.
Bang for buck would be great for them.

Anyway, still happy with the game, just trying to be constructive.

adamastorx

I can't praise enough the EU server move to Frankfurt. Until then I was on the fence about subscribing because the combat didn't feel responsive. Now I really can tell the difference. Good work! Keep on making this game funnier and its virtual world richer, make it more sandpark.

Navuri

Is the PTS thing just a patch or do you have to download a complete second game folder? If the latter is the case, I won't be joining the PTS.

Elf_Boy

I hear your plea for more PTS players.

In both WOW and my all time favorite City of Heroes, (may the board members @ ncsoft have the fleas of several thousand camels....) I did go to the PTS from time to time.

The barriers I see right now for me: (1) I traditionally have not spend time there till I was at max character level and since I am actively working on 6 of my 8 slots on the US server and I look at everything and go everywhere this may take some time. (2) I always dread getting some nice juicy drop or phat loot and not being able to keep it (or any other progression) so I end up not playing there long.

The mentioned up coming reward could tempt me further and should I choose to create a clone of my character having some way to bring back a level appropriate item or two (not bags of mats) would make the deal tempting to me.

What drives and motivates others I can not say.

SantieClaws

No mention of us being able to cook fish Sigh my Khajiit will keep hoarding them in the bank in the hope that one day we can. I wouldn't mind if it was even put in as a racial skill line.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

What a waste of time, the most content-free of them yet.

No substance at all about the Champion system .. beyond saying basically they don't really know where it's going "The final result of those changes isn’t entirely known yet" .. nothing about how crafting is going to evolve based on the new grind for the 9th trait in 1.4 .. absolutely NOTHING AT ALL about the non-group content vaguely referenced at Quakecon.

In fact if you exclude all the stuff that's been mentioned before there's little more that a handful of sentences with anything we didn't know already and no mention of any of the serious problems still affecting the EU servers, nothing about the serious problems still affecting PVP, etc. etc.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Brandalf wrote: »

50k a year? Please tell me you're joking, you have to be joking. If you're not you are extremely misinformed. Every other MMO on the market has a PTS for testing new content, it ensures more testing in a shorter time-frame; which of course means the new content will get to the live servers much more quickly. The more people you have testing new content the higher the chances that some previously unknown issues will come to light and can be fixed before the new content goes live. It's not like this is a new idea, in fact it's pretty standard.

While some MMOs may do, few PTS actually do anything useful as most players use it for pre-update previews, to discover exploits they can abuse live before the developer discovers them, learn how to run the new dungeons so they can prattle on about 'world firsts' when it goes live, to map out the resource nodes to get a jump-start on crafting updates, etc.

In fact, very little 'testing' goes on unless the developers actively direct it by locking everything but specific content areas: this was one reason, of many, where the beta tests largely failed to head off the bug-fest that was released on 30 March.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Brandalf wrote: »

If you don't feel like they're adding enough new content to justify your subscription I have to wonder if any MMO could please you in that department.

Let me help you, from my perspective: all the content added so far and the content mentioned in that 'roadmap' is hardcore group or PVP content, I want neither and many other games provide it.

So yes, it's perfectly possible to be unhappy with the way this game is going while at the same time being able to enjoy MMOs that aren't lurching back to the 1990s gorup-grindfest game model.

Navuri

“Expect to see soon”: new facial animation system, improved grouping, fixes to player separation issues

“Expect to see in a while”: Imperial City, Champion System

“Expect to see later”: Justice System, Spellcrafting

Then I'll be back in February or something like that. No news about Murkmire, Wrothgar, Fishing, Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood. You introduce cosmetic enhancements before content you promised before the actual release of the game (DB, TG). And because ZOS senses that people tend to leave the game because of the weak updates and not delivering their promises we can join a so called 'loyalty program'. How about a little loyalty towards players who have been supporting this game for over 2 years?

cuz_mike200

When I was about to read the road ahead- August 20 I was so hoping to see The Justice System and Spellcrafting included but I guess dragonstar and more of craglorn would be really cool once I become a veteran

Cogo

Awesome!

I want to add a very wierd complaint. As well as my thanks to Zenimax for proving ESO works and keeps to their plan.

Zenimax have done outstanding work with armor passives, phasing, questing and general bug fixing in game.

WHY are you not saying anything about these more or less fantastic improvements? I wouldn't mind if a Zeni com manager answer this.

The balance Zenimax have done in the past month has more or less balanced the previous problems with only players "in robes with a stick". Sure, there is more to do, but WHY not say anything when you do these really good changes?

Are you guys not Americans? Brag! (I am Swedish, we are too meek to brag)

Psst, regarding the EU server, Its getting crowded in the game and that causes server lag, which is fixable with added resources. The game is very stable. More players equals more resources! Do not let the "suits" stop you from expanding.

This summery proves to me that ESO is here to stay and have created a "new" Type of MMO, as stated, announced and delivered. Even through huge criticism from all kinds of directions. I can only explain this with one word "Bold".

• Its very ensuring that Zenimax keeps to their plan, not doing anything in haste, but in tweaks and work as much as possible before they release new "content", as promised every 4-6 weeks. I rather wait a week and get a well designed justice system, then rush it and get unknown effects.
  
• Since the content is included in the subscription, I as a customer, really feel I am getting a lot for the subscription and feel secure in future additions.
  
• Would it not make sense to put the justice system AND Imperial City in the same Patch? I am sure there are reasons why these are separated.
• I suspect that the big project of making the Champion system balanced and work in the long term (Like EQ AA did very well) is a big reason behind it, and understandable. This is not an easy request, but may be worth considering, since the 2 systems will not interfear with eachother. (Or maybe they will?)
  
• The thieves guild was always said to be implemented in game when then justice system is in place. Even though this makes perfect sense, I do feel, however, that the Thieves guild should get priority since its a very welcomed and anticipated "content" from more or less the whole ESO community.
• The delay of the thieves guild, I can also understand is connected to how the Champion system will work. (new skills to consider. Balance.)
  
• As a player who played since launch, I am very happy with ESO and Zenimax management of the MMO. Keep it up!