Revise the New 4th Rank of Carpentry/Metallurgy/Stitching

LonePirate

The Crafting passive skills of Carpentry, Metallurgy and Stitching all have a fourth rank now. However, this rank is of little value to most players because all it does is reduce the research time of the new ninth trait from 51.2 days to 30 days. The only crafters who will utilize this new rank are those who have already researched eight traits on everything else and even then, what difference does an extra 21 days make when you have nothing else to research?

I think this new rank should grant the player the ability to research four traits simultaneously (and maybe even keep the 30 day limit). A fourth item for research would be a huge bonus for all crafters who have invested in these passive skills as it would greatly reduce total research time and reduce the inventory pressure exerted by having to store so many traits for future research. Crafters would love this change!

An alternative to allowing a fourth item to be researched would be to lower the maximum research time to 18-20 days so that it shortens the research time of both the eighth and ninth traits. Crafters would appreciate the ability to shave 5-7 days of time from the eighth trait's research, thus making this passive impact something besides the largely useless and unwanted new ninth trait.

Denaia

I don't mind the change to be honest. Simply as we are getting more and more skill points so having some new stuff to put use is nice, it will also make sure that in a few months everyone will have every single thing in the game unlocked at once thus removing the diversity skill points were ment to have.

So I don't see the problem.

Black_Wolf88

since you can only research 3 items at a time it will make a huge difference for those who want to research the 9th.
for clothing you have 14 items to research, which means you have to complete the research 5 times in order to get all. 21 days * 5 = 105 days saved, which is quite a lot.

but I do agree that a 4th research would be very nice to have.

Maverick827

Who on the development team thinks it's a good idea to have systems in place that require your players to wait a month to take advantage of new content? Why does this person have authority?

Aeratus

The ninth trait also disadvantages those who've actually invested in the research to obtain 8 traits, since those with 8 traits will have to wait even longer.

LtCrunch

Maverick827 wrote: »

Who on the development team thinks it's a good idea to have systems in place that require your players to wait a month to take advantage of new content? Why does this person have authority?

It's an MMO, it needs at least SOME timesinks

Sasky

A fourth research would make a huge difference in terms of getting a set done (light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, metal weapons) since otherwise you'd be into your 3rd month for the 7th item. It'd also reduce the time to do all 14 items in clothing or blacksmithing from 5 months to 4 months.

AlyennahsCrafting

I agree, I am still working towards being able to craft eight traits, partially because I do all armour and weapons crafting with a single character, instead of what others appear to do, spreading it over alts. The added research time is bearable, but I will have to research at least 38 items divided over three research slots each. That will take me another three months or so? By the time I am done with that, there may be another update that will require me to research even more, meaning I will still not be done. That is discouraging, to say the least. What is the point of investing so much time in crafting if you will never be done? Or should I just give up and at least start researching light armour on another character? It is just that I've come this far and have the goal within sight and now they move the goalposts? That seems unfair. To be honest, I'd much rather have an additional motif that adds a whole new style than an additional trait.
So imho it would be best to do both. Add another research slot and shorten the maximum research time.

indigoblades

The 8 trait sets are at best equal if not worse than some the 6 and lower trait sets so i am fine with only being able to research 3 traits at a time. Also someone else said its a good time sink.

Morvul

I actually like the 4th passive the way it is now on the PTS.
Timesinks like that are good for crafters...
and 21 days times 14/3 items to research means 21 * 5 = 105 days saved by one skill point... that's plenty valuable in my book

killedbyping

Are this 4th point in reserach reduce time it takes to research first 8 traits ?

Aedh

No.

The 4th trait limits the research time to 30 days. The 8th research takes 25.

Fyrakin

I don't think its an issue, knowing about supply of research materials and how "valuable" the trait is I don't think its even worth bothering. Crafters who allready reasearched all 8 traits probably got rid of the carpentry/metallurgy/stiching line allready. I see a different problem here, research times alltogether are huge time sinks and most people have no patience to do all of the researches its a fight between boring and too boring.

BoloBoffin

You can see it as unfair to people who have invested time in their craft, or you can see it as leveling the field for new crafters. If it bothers you that much, have an alt that you can send the traits you don't have yet to research in a shorter amount of time.

jvh808

I oppose this change and if it does in fact go live, it will be a slap in the face to the people who have proven they are devoted and willing to work for what they have, especially with the timing it could occur. This timeframe would implement the change to occur within 2 weeks of completing all 8 trait in each of the 7 pieces in the different types. I will have completed researching all 7 in Medium Armor, Blacksmith Weaponry, and 6 in Woodworking before 1.4 goes live. If any of the devs read this, I implore you to not side with the many on this issue because you will lose more devoted players than you could possibly gain. Thank you.

k9mouse

I like the time sinks because it does not let everyone and their mother be a grand master crafter. Also, it cost more skill points and inv space to be a *good* master crafter. I like the current system the way it is for those reasons. 3 traits at a time is plenty. If new person want to be a true grand master crafter, he or she must do the time like the rest of us.

Oevaag_Bur

Have they added any nine trait sets as yet out of curiosity ?

LonePirate

Oevaag_Bur wrote: »

Have they added any nine trait sets as yet out of curiosity ?

I have not found any new crafting stations in the expanded Craglorn in 1.4. If they are out there, they are well hidden.

Yusuf

Aeratus wrote: »

The ninth trait also disadvantages those who've actually invested in the research to obtain 8 traits, since those with 8 traits will have to wait even longer.

Lol if you think about it, it should've been the other way around. You know, the first trait takes the longest and as you become a master crafter it gets faster and faster how you research. Just occured to me O_O

Fyrakin

The more I think about it the more I come to conclusion that its too greedy from service provider perspective to imbue such huge time sinks on an aspect that has little to no advantages ingame. Let's face it - best pve gear is looted and best pvp gear comes from vendors, then who cares about crafted? People who don't participate in raid activities, yet that gear can be replaced with the one from raids via trades with raiding players.

I have researched all 8 traits in heavy and light armor, 8 traits in all woodworker items and nearly finished 8th trait on 2 weapons. And after spending 5 months in doing that I have nothing but the feeling of acomplishment. I would be glad if crafted 8 traits gear could be a match for the best looted gear if not its just obsolete feature people should not spend time on.

k9mouse

They are certain armor / weapon bonus sets out there that one need to know a certain number of traits to use them. The set bonus are very good and can be made to fit to the build that the player is doing. I have to disagree with the idea of crafting is useless.

Aenra

k9mouse wrote: »

I like the time sinks because it does not let everyone and their mother be a grand master crafter

you are missing the point entirely. Have mentioned it elsewhere too,

no one needs to be a grand master

on the contrary, barring the OCD-derived satisfaction of saying "i can make it myself", there is absolutely no incentive to being a crafter at all. On the contrary, practically speaking the best way to go is to sell all those thousands of stacks (we are talking literally about millions of pieces) of mats you would have used to level it up, make your fortune, and buy the odd piece of another.

Because nothing, nothing is BoP
You can like your time sink, but how about focusing on how useless it is to debate over it when its outcome is so non-practical?

Blue V+++++ pieces go for 500-700gold to give one example. I can sell one, one stack of iron (and that's T1) for more. See my point? Why would one care about research timers? One's not even going to get there. At all.

AlyennahsCrafting

Aenra wrote: »

Blue V+++++ pieces go for 500-700gold to give one example. I can sell one, one stack of iron (and that's T1) for more. See my point? Why would one care about research timers? One's not even going to get there. At all.

So what you're saying is, either prices for crafted items are ridiculous or the amount of materials needed are disproportional to the price you can ask for them, so crafting is useless if you want to sell your items?

Yes, I.. kinda agree. The requirement of eight (8!) tempers to get an item to legendary is especially ridiculous. So either materials should be cheaper or the crafted sets should be unique, not to be found any other way and they should be much better than the sets you can find. In fact, I'd like to be able to learn to craft a set that is dropped or found. Also, we should have jewelry crafting, so you can create jewelry to go with a set. Even then, it would depend on the amount of competition, how many crafters would be available in relation to demand for crafted items.

But even though I have so far rarely crafted items for someone else, I will keep my crafting character around and will keep researching. Why? Because I hate being unable to find a suitable set (item), I want to be able to craft a new set when my characters level. I don't like them running around in an assortment of sets and styles, I want them to perform as well as possible by giving them a brand-new set at least every now and then. Finding the right item to complete a set is pretty much impossible. I might have to visit dozens of NPC guild merchants in order to find that one item that will complete a set at the right level and quality. I bought a VR1 Deadly Strike Greatsword (green) ages ago and haven't been able to find matching VR1 (green) jewelry to complete that set. People have them in VR12, but I've been unable to find them otherwise. I'm starting to consider just deconstructing the darned thing.

So, yeah, I'd rather they fix this and make crafting more worthwhile even if I continue to only craft for my own characters. If I could sell the occasional piece and actually make a profit, rather than just breaking even, then that'd be great too.

So, as for the OP, as I've said before:

-Add another research slot, not a reduction in research time
-If possible, add another skill point to further research research time, not just to max the research time for the final trait.

In addition, as (partially) stated elsewhere:

-Add new motifs/styles (they've been announced)
-Allow us to craft jewelry (has been announced that this will happen at some point)
-Allow us to add another skill point that further reduces the requirement for improvement materials, at least for the legendary quality as the requirement is just too darned high
-Allow us to learn dropped/looted styles so we can craft them for people who need them at a different level
-Allow us to specialize to set various crafters apart/create new options (for instance: master armourer OR master swordmaker (for both types of swords) OR daggers for blacksmithing, bowyer OR fletcher OR master shield maker OR wizard accessories (and maybe add in pikemaking if we're ever getting mounted warfare) for woodworking, specialization in either light or medium armour for clothing, specialization in either armour, weapon or jewelry glyphs for enchanter.
-Make crafted sets special so people will actually want them over dropped/looted sets, perhaps give even more benefit to the one who crafted them
-Create quests which give you experience in crafting (I think those may already be on the PTS, or at least are being worked on), but it should not just be: collect x materials, make x swords or daggers, etc. It should also result in something tangible, like a special skill line or something, for instance a specialization.
-Maybe add one more weapon, like a longsword that is in between sword and greatsword. I think the regular sword is too short, the greatsword too massive and unwieldy, some of them look ridiculous, especially on smaller characters. So a sword that is longer and faster and more damage than the regular sword, but not as long and thinner than the greatsword. Two swords or two daggers using dual wielding should imho result in slightly lower DPS than greatsword, but Greatsword should have a higher crit rating and massive damage with each blow to compensate for how slow it is. Longsword should be somewhere in between, but be better at piercing armour and protective spells.

Cody

to be honest, I only research the traits I want and stop(I will go for more for a set) I don't think I will ever go to the last trait. I don't feel like its worth waiting a month for. im not lazy, but does not seem worth it to me.

jpsmithub17_ESO1

I agree with the idea that there needs to be time sinks in the game, and in fact count on it that the subscription scheme will never allow something to be "done". I never did put more than 3 skill points into Clothing Stitching (research perk), and will complete the original 8 traits in about a month. I could be enticed to spend some of the unspent skill points that I have for something humorous or rewarding such as the ability to remove the silly animal fangs (future lights, feathers etc.) from veteran armor skins, control over glossiness, camuflage, or whatever. But not to "save" xx days by which time something new will appear in a patch to keep us logging on.

Nightreaver

BoloBoffin wrote: »

You can see it as unfair to people who have invested time in their craft, or you can see it as leveling the field for new crafters. If it bothers you that much, have an alt that you can send the traits you don't have yet to research in a shorter amount of time.

The playing field wasn't leveled, it collapsed and fell to the new crafters who are the new Grandmasters. The best crafters are the ones who can make sets now that require 6 traits or less with the new trait, not a month from now. It takes 16 days to learn 6 traits on an item which will be sufficient to cover almost all crafting requests. As opposed to 30 days for those of us who have already invested the time in researching 8 traits.

Having an alt do the Research really doesn't help. Ok, so I spent 25k on a stone so I can research the item in 6 hours, so what? People are going to want that trait on a set piece so I still have to spend another 25K to research on the character that will be making the sets.

Adding the ability to research a 4th item concurrently really wouldn't make that much difference to me. What I would love to see is something that made all this time invested worth the effort. Introduce Crafting sets that would actually be desired that require 9 traits to make. Even the current 8-trait sets aren't worth the effort with almost everyone preferring the sets that require 6 traits or less.

Or make 9 researched items a prerequisite for a Master trait or a crafting ability that distinguishes those have completed this monumental task.

Sunrock

Yea it should do more then what it does not to sink 4 skill points into it.