Player Made Rules & Craglorn Grinding

hushia

k9mouse wrote: »

Let us put the shoe on the other foot and sees how well it fits? Someone in a grind group, getting XP / Loot just fine until some people show who start grinding out side of the people thus taking away XP / Loot from someone in the group. How would make you feel if someone take YOUR XP / Loot away?

When I encounter a boss and I need that boss to get experience, I am just as entitled to fight it as anybody else. Or do you think it is normal to expect people to wait for hours while you are grinding a certain boss? And to be honest I think you calling that boss yours is more rude and inconsiderate than competing for xp/loot at a grinding spot.

k9mouse

I like to help in boss battles if everyone get XP / Loot, but in grind groups is a little different then boss Battles. They are groups of 12 and they are there to kill trash mobs for XP / Loot, but outside the group who leeching that away. If you on a quest and need to kill the boss ONE TIME, I see no trouble letting you kill that boss for that quest.

If you just follow around a group of players and leeching their kills and taking their loot / XP away, then is a different ball park. So are you doing quests or "grinding" (aka killing the same trash mobs over and over again to get XP / Loot)? If you want to grind, then one should wait their turn in the queue instead of taking away XP / Loot from others. Let face it, I did help you kill that boss / trash mob, should not I be reward also for my "work?"

If you are questing, I have no trouble letting you kill that boss / trash mob ONE TIME, after that, you will be on your merry way doing more of the said quest and grind party can return to grind with out worry about you taking away my XP / Loot.

Maverick827

Cuyler wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if "leechers" eventually get classified as griefers. Pretty much every MMO has rules against greifing world boss spawns, which is what this essentially is.

No....it totally isn't, and it never will. It's called "playing". Something players do for their amusement, not yours.

#dontholdyourbreath

Calm down.

I don't care either way. I just know that in every other MMO I've played, interfering with world bosses (in this case, stealing XP and loot) is considered greifing.

"stealing"...I just lol'ed :disagree:

It's essentially the same thing as ninja looting. A group of twelve set out to do content that requires twelve people to complete. One person not with that group, who obviously cannot solo this content, tags along - unwelcomed - and manages to take someone else's reward.

firstdecan

k9mouse wrote: »

Let us put the shoe on the other foot and sees how well it fits? Someone in a grind group, getting XP / Loot just fine until some people show who start grinding out side of the people thus taking away XP / Loot from someone in the group. How would make you feel if someone take YOUR XP / Loot away?

I am sorry for the OP's limited play time, but the fact is that he is leeching XP / Loot from someone else. Out of respect, one should wait for a spot in a grind group. Lack of play time is no reason to steal XP / Loot from others.

Abuse tells, talk is not needed either, but people do have a right to be upset about their loot / XP being taken away by others. The best course of action, just to wait for a spot in a grind group or found something else to do ingame while you wait. One can easy avoid abuse tells, stealing XP / Loot that way.

Gotta disagree with you here. No one is entitled to the loot \ xp, it's a public resource. That's like saying no one else can go for a walk in the park because someone is already there with friends.

I blame Zenimax for the issue though, not the players.
1 - Why would they limit the number of people who can get XP from killing a boss mob in a non-instanced area.
2 - Why don't they have grind spots for people who just want to grind or mindlessly kill mobs?

Ghostbane

You can PVP right now. With the XP boost as well in PVP, you'll have no problem getting a steady stream from activity. Get yourself into a group, attack, defend, slaughter. A ton of XP. The dailies between four classes and all players are a breeze too.

VR rank has no merit in PVP when it all boils down. It is down to numbers and individual talents. Gear / Abilities only help so far to being used right

I'll see you in Cyro.

Cuyler

Maverick827 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if "leechers" eventually get classified as griefers. Pretty much every MMO has rules against greifing world boss spawns, which is what this essentially is.

No....it totally isn't, and it never will. It's called "playing". Something players do for their amusement, not yours.

#dontholdyourbreath

Calm down.

I don't care either way. I just know that in every other MMO I've played, interfering with world bosses (in this case, stealing XP and loot) is considered greifing.

"stealing"...I just lol'ed :disagree:

...manages to take someone else's reward.

just rofl'ed....how can someone manage to take "someone else's reward" exactly enlighten us please? the system decides who deserves the rewards not you chief :disagree:

k9mouse

@firstdecan

If help to kill a monster, then I should be reward and if you should kill a monster then you should be reward. The trouble comes in when there are more then 12 in a group, someone will not be reward in doing the work.

1) Yeah, ZOS should up the total spots that people should get XP / Loot, but they still can keep the 12 max group, just have X amount of extra spots, but players can not assign them to make the group bigger.

2) I do like to grind and farm, but vast amount of people who do not like to do that. ZOS does have grind spots, but people should join a group if they want to grind because of ZOS's 12 person rule about getting XP / Loot. If they are questing, I have no trouble letting you kill the boss ONE TIME for that the quest, after that the person who quest can be on their own merry way.

Cuyler

k9mouse wrote: »

If you on a quest and need to kill the boss ONE TIME, I see no trouble letting you kill that boss for that quest.

^^^this too haha. thanks for letting me kill that boss. as if we need your permission

Slurg

Am I interpreting this correctly? L33t group leaders own Craglorn and get to decide who is and isn't allowed to participate in killing world bosses? And everyone who refuses to follow their decree is a griefer who is stealing XP?

I'd like some official response on that.

ThisOnePosts

I can see the argument on all sides of the fence. There is no right and wrong answer here. If you feel like it's okay to stay there and try to get in on the XP, then have at it. If not, then don't. It's simple.

As for people saying don't grind... I agree if it's your main character. If it's an alt and you've already done every quest in the game on your main character, then grinding is certainly something you've earned/are entitled to for your alts. Although it is terribly boring compared to questing IN MY OPINION.

k9mouse

Cuyler wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

If you on a quest and need to kill the boss ONE TIME, I see no trouble letting you kill that boss for that quest.

^^^this too haha. thanks for letting me kill that boss. as if we need your permission

I am just trying to be fair, I do not want my grinding stop you on your quest, but at the same time, you need to respect me in my actives as well. I am here to get XP / Loot, (aka grind), one should not take that away either.

I do quest, but I get to max level for that zone then do all the quests in that zone before I repeat the grind then quests for the next zone. Also, I do have other goals that I need matts for out side of questing. In a way, it is a sandbox, I make up my own quests as well. Grinding is a means to that end.

firstdecan

Slurg wrote: »

Am I interpreting this correctly? L33t group leaders own Craglorn and get to decide who is and isn't allowed to participate in killing world bosses? And everyone who refuses to follow their decree is a griefer who is stealing XP?

I'd like some official response on that.

That's correct. If you're not L33t, or 3733t, or however the kids spell it now, you do not deserve to get value for your subscription. Public resources are only supposed to be available for the select few.

Please note this was intended to be sarcastic.

Maverick827

Cuyler wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if "leechers" eventually get classified as griefers. Pretty much every MMO has rules against greifing world boss spawns, which is what this essentially is.

No....it totally isn't, and it never will. It's called "playing". Something players do for their amusement, not yours.

#dontholdyourbreath

Calm down.

I don't care either way. I just know that in every other MMO I've played, interfering with world bosses (in this case, stealing XP and loot) is considered greifing.

"stealing"...I just lol'ed :disagree:

...manages to take someone else's reward.

just rofl'ed....how can someone manage to take "someone else's reward" exactly enlighten us please? the system decides who deserves the rewards not you cheif :disagree:

Please keep a civil tone.

The group who sets out to defeat the group content decide who deserve the rewards by including them in the group.

tengri

k9mouse wrote: »

I am sorry for the OP's limited play time, but the fact is that he is leeching XP / Loot from someone else. Out of respect, one should wait for a spot in a grind group. Lack of play time is no reason to steal XP / Loot from others.

"Respect"? Seriously?
He's paying the same subscription fee as everybody else and can do as he pleases.

k9mouse

tengri wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

I am sorry for the OP's limited play time, but the fact is that he is leeching XP / Loot from someone else. Out of respect, one should wait for a spot in a grind group. Lack of play time is no reason to steal XP / Loot from others.

"Respect"? Seriously?
He's paying the same subscription fee as everybody else and can do as he pleases.

@tengri
Where does my sub fee end (and right to content) and your right to the same content begin? It is about respecting how others play, I am trying to respect how you want to quest or do other content and the same time, you need to respect how I want to play -- grinding, etc.

Are you telling me that how you play is more important how I want to play? We both pay the same sub fee for the same content, why can't we respect how each other play and play with each other all nice like? Is that to much to ask?

tengri

Frankly speaking... I play (and pay) for fun. For my and only my fun.
Has nothing to do with disrespecting others and stuff - but if someone is in my way then... well... I am sorry but I wont stop/wait/whatever to cut my fun-time short.
No way.
And of course I do not expect/demand from others to act differently here either.

k9mouse

tengri wrote: »

Frankly speaking... I play (and pay) for fun. For my and only my fun.
Has nothing to do with disrespecting others and stuff - but if someone is in my way then... well... I am sorry but I wont stop/wait/whatever to cut my fun-time short.
No way.
And of course I do not expect/demand from others to act differently here either.

@tengri
Let us take that logic to the next step shall we? You are trying to color your armor, but some jerk who think it is fun to cast a spell that changes color and makes very hard for you to paint your armor, but he is having so much fun!

Going by your logic, that will be ok, because who cares about respect and everyone for themselves and if he mess up your game who cares because he is having fun and that is all that matters. Now, is that good or bad logic?

silascb

FunkheaD wrote: »

How do you personally handle this? Do you dive into the fight regardless of people sending you whiney/abusive tells, or do you sit back patiently and pleasure yourself to the 1 terabyte of hentai you recently torrented?

Yes, I do exactly that.

Actually, this can go one of two ways, neither of which is "right" or "wrong" but may be considered otherwise by other people.

1. You can do as you please, when you please. This is your game, after all, and you should play it how you want.

2. You can respect fellow players by being courteous and perhaps gain some friends while building a strong sense of community in the process.

In the end, it's really a choice that will result in either benefiting yourself or benefiting others. Do what makes you happiest.

tengri

k9mouse wrote: »

Now, is that good or bad logic?

That's of course bad logic.

Artemiisia

FunkheaD wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Complete all the quests instead. You'll probably need to go back and do them at some point anyway so it'll save you time in the long run.

Consider this... If I have 1-2 hours a day to play, and my ultimate in game desire is to reach max VR and PvP as soon as possible. Would you solo quest, or would you instead do Craglorn?

Solo questing seemed to take around 10-12 hours per zone/VR Rank and this seems like a pretty poor investment of time.

I'll go back and do those quests when I run out of skill points

reaching max lvl in PvP is a marathon like nothing in this game, will take you atleast a year with only 1-2 hours of daily play if you do pve also

epoling

tengri wrote: »

Frankly speaking... I play (and pay) for fun. For my and only my fun.
Has nothing to do with disrespecting others and stuff - but if someone is in my way then... well... I am sorry but I wont stop/wait/whatever to cut my fun-time short.
No way.
And of course I do not expect/demand from others to act differently here either.

This kind of attitude shows why our society is so messed up. Everything is about "ME" and "MY" sense of entitlement. If my sense of entitlement screws with others, so what? Just don't let them mess with my idea of fun or I will scream to high heavens. Everybody has become so "ME" oriented that we forget society functions best when we figure out what the rules are and live by them. The OP wouldn't be complaining about his/her fun being ruined if he realized that you have to live with those set by the society you live (or play) in or suffer the consequences. Unfortunately, my generation did not do a very good job of teaching younger generations your own desires are not the only thing that matters.

hushia

Maverick827 wrote: »

The group who sets out to defeat the group content decide who deserve the rewards by including them in the group.

Rubbish. Just because you are there with a group doesn't give you the right to decide what others can or cannot do in that spot. Again, it is a public place with mobs/bosses for everyone. I understand it can be frustrating, but still, it's everyone's right to try and get xp/loot from the mobs in a public place.

Maverick827

hushia wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

The group who sets out to defeat the group content decide who deserve the rewards by including them in the group.

Rubbish. Just because you are there with a group doesn't give you the right to decide what others can or cannot do in that spot. Again, it is a public place with mobs/bosses for everyone. I understand it can be frustrating, but still, it's everyone's right to try and get xp/loot from the mobs in a public place.

All I'm saying is that many other MMOs disagree with you. We reported many people who tried to interfere with our world boss kills in WoW and GMs typically came and removed them from the zone.

Nox_Aeterna

k9mouse wrote: »

tengri wrote: »

Frankly speaking... I play (and pay) for fun. For my and only my fun.
Has nothing to do with disrespecting others and stuff - but if someone is in my way then... well... I am sorry but I wont stop/wait/whatever to cut my fun-time short.
No way.
And of course I do not expect/demand from others to act differently here either.

@tengri
Let us take that logic to the next step shall we? You are trying to color your armor, but some jerk who think it is fun to cast a spell that changes color and makes very hard for you to paint your armor, but he is having so much fun!

Going by your logic, that will be ok, because who cares about respect and everyone for themselves and if he mess up your game who cares because he is having fun and that is all that matters. Now, is that good or bad logic?

Like any other relationship , there are lines.

To some players it is disrespectful that people use their horses to run in the cities , because that breaks their immersion. To some others it is disrespectful that people stay in cyro if they are not there to PvP... (those 2 from recent threads only.)

It is really hard , has always been , to say where the right of one person starts and where it ends. What one may consider normal could annoy greatly another person.

So zen creates the rules , those rules for the most part will actually limit what a player should or shouldnt do.

And that is it.

If the OP can only play for 1 hour and people wont leave a stop because they want to grind it , denying him content , he has the right to go there and try just the same those other player have.

hushia

Maverick827 wrote: »

hushia wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

The group who sets out to defeat the group content decide who deserve the rewards by including them in the group.

Rubbish. Just because you are there with a group doesn't give you the right to decide what others can or cannot do in that spot. Again, it is a public place with mobs/bosses for everyone. I understand it can be frustrating, but still, it's everyone's right to try and get xp/loot from the mobs in a public place.

All I'm saying is that many other MMOs disagree with you. We reported many people who tried to interfere with our world boss kills in WoW and GMs typically came and removed them from the zone.

Those are other games with other mechanics. In ESO you cannot wipe a whole group by getting killed near a boss or tag a mob quickly before others attack and get the kill awarded to you.

Tyr

timidobserver wrote: »

You have to learn to ignore people and do whatever you want. Nobody in ESO has any authority to tell you what to do.

Also, the ignore function and offline function are both very nice with regard to avoiding abuse.

Yep. hit the ignore button. Outright threats or verbal harassment is a violation of the TOS so the alternative of ignore is better than they deserve.

dodgehopper_ESO

Craglorn is great and all, but you're missing out on a lot of skillpoints if you don't do at least all Skillpoint Earning quests in the Storyline areas. There's also 50 skillpoints to be had from PVP as well (not including skyshards). Craglorn gets you vet levels, which of course ups your stats and gives you access to better gear, but it does not give you access to skills which you will likely want. Do with that what you will.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

I was sneaking around Craglorn as VR1 yesterday and found a tomb. Went in and admired the 8000 health guy hanging there and all these guys show up. Let them lead and boom, away we go. I got something, I forget, and had a blast pretending to heal and actually doing damage.

Maverick827

hushia wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

hushia wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

The group who sets out to defeat the group content decide who deserve the rewards by including them in the group.

Rubbish. Just because you are there with a group doesn't give you the right to decide what others can or cannot do in that spot. Again, it is a public place with mobs/bosses for everyone. I understand it can be frustrating, but still, it's everyone's right to try and get xp/loot from the mobs in a public place.

All I'm saying is that many other MMOs disagree with you. We reported many people who tried to interfere with our world boss kills in WoW and GMs typically came and removed them from the zone.

Those are other games with other mechanics. In ESO you cannot wipe a whole group by getting killed near a boss or tag a mob quickly before others attack and get the kill awarded to you.

No, but you can attack a boss and get more "credit" than one person in the group who's actually killing the boss, which is a mini form of kill-stealing.

You might argue that if you can get the credit then you deserve it, but what about someone tanking, or crowd controlling, or doing some other non-damaging role (healing seems to get credit well enough, at least)? It's a pretty common occurrence in these "no tagging" games where credit isn't exactly calculated intelligently. I know Rift had a terrible credit system for a while, where even healers weren't getting credit in world objectives because they weren't dealing as much damage (obviously).

Braddass

tengri wrote: »

Frankly speaking... I play (and pay) for fun. For my and only my fun.
Has nothing to do with disrespecting others and stuff - but if someone is in my way then... well... I am sorry but I wont stop/wait/whatever to cut my fun-time short.
No way.
And of course I do not expect/demand from others to act differently here either.

tengri wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

I am sorry for the OP's limited play time, but the fact is that he is leeching XP / Loot from someone else. Out of respect, one should wait for a spot in a grind group. Lack of play time is no reason to steal XP / Loot from others.

"Respect"? Seriously?
He's paying the same subscription fee as everybody else and can do as he pleases.

Kids these days ...

I blame the parents who failed to teach them to respect others ... that let them believe that want they wanted was all that mattered.