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Craglorn and forced group content good idea or bad idea.

  • Faustes
    Faustes
    ✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    Group content should be in the form of dungeons/trials, not questing zones. This is especially true with how segmented ESO population is across 2 megaservers, 3 alliances, and 60+ zones.
  • gimpdrb14_ESO
    gimpdrb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    what would you guys say to this. when a new adventure zone comes out the devs do what needs to be done to make the last adventure zone soloable?
  • Anastasia
    Anastasia
    ✭✭✭✭
    what would you guys say to this. when a new adventure zone comes out the devs do what needs to be done to make the last adventure zone soloable?

    gimpdrb14 - maybe with some time gating your idea could be utilized. ZOS has certainly shown us how they are quite capable of nerfing mob difficulty.

    Wrothgar is coming which will be primarily a solo-centric zone.
    Soloer's certainly haven't been 'forgotten' -- cradle to endgame entry door soloability is...ehrm...a more than decent amount of space and time in this MMO's content for folks to relax and skip along ignoring grouping aside from a few dungeons and delves.



  • nicholaspingasb16_ESO
    nicholaspingasb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    "play the way you want"

    as long as you don't mind being 2 veteran ranks behind everyone else with substandard gear.
    Sanguine's Beta Tester

  • nicholaspingasb16_ESO
    nicholaspingasb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    At the end of the day "cos this is an mmo" is a moot point. What you mean is every other MMO behaves this way so ESO must.
    I dont subscribe to this view and think its lame and is just a recipe for the same failings as every other MMO.

    This game has a huge fanbase. Many of which are genuine MMO players and many of which are TES players. Those TES players love this game and still want he option to play it like a TES game (solo dungeons). Those MMO players want the option to play it as a group game.

    I have no objection to either of these as they both provide a sizeable chunk of revenue and keep the game going. But there are some provisos that need addressing that are currently causing issues.

    1. All dungeon delve areas should have a group and public versions.
    2. The public version should be public access quest areas.
    3. The group versions should be for 1-12 player groups.
    4. The group versions should not only scale to suit the number of players in the group but also scale with difficulty for the total players too.

    This way solo players will run it at 100% difficulty for 1 player, where 12 players will run it suitable for 12 players at 300% difficulty as an example. By scaling to suit players and increasing the difficulty too, everyones needs are met.

    The TES players and couples can wander any dungeon at their leisure in their own time with outside interference.

    The public content still exists for quests.

    The MMO players not only get to play as a team, the difficulty of the area also increases depending on how many are in that team. So this caters for all levels of MMO player from the novice to the most hardcore guilds.

    This 100%.

    Exactly what I've been saying since the first time I beta tested. Scale all dungeons and give the option to have them in a solo/group instance or public.
    Sanguine's Beta Tester

  • SBR_QuorTek
    SBR_QuorTek
    ✭✭✭
    Forced group content is good!
    People still do not get it though, one is not forced to do it, no one is forced to go to craglorn... and if going there you are not forced to group either, but you might expect severe difficulties here and there if not grouped.

    We have 16 Areas of solo gameplay, including worldbosses, dolmens, delves, public delves.

    We have 1 Area which recommend group content, it is all down to that.

    People playing games are becoming a joke though, this little extra hard stuff there is it is like they are giving up and fail to be constructive, you do not want to weaken something that is supposed to be, but you want to improve ways of the current system and stick to that.

    People are dead afraid of grouping for anything in this game, so create a trend where it is not, this is also a community playerbase thing to archieve.

    If one suck at everything one do, and peopel do not want to group with a person because screwing up, not listening to what is going to happen next and the likes, then they have brought that down onto themself... bad reputation is a killer to most characters.... and it does not mean that the game should be shaped around those people either.

  • Laura
    Laura
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    Forced group content is good!
    its implantation in this game was dreadful and horrible. Things like making it where people have to be on the exact same step to help each other out was asinine and I would really like to know what they were thinking.

    That said... its an MMO. You should expect lots of group content. Hopefully they learned there lesson and future adventure zone areas won't have these issues. I do not understand why people would play an MMO purely for solo purposes but I don't think the solo style of play should be in the front.

    People play group games for... you guessed it... group play. If you chop the group element out of ANY mmo you immediately find a TON of games that are better in the same genre.

    If they made a new solo zone you would be through it in just a day anyway. I don't see how that is worth the development time. I agree there needs to be more solo repeatable content for when you can't find a group (like dailies for COSMETIC items, repeatable delves, something like that) but an entire zone for max level players that will just blow through it in less than a day? seems silly.

    Edited by Laura on August 17, 2014 9:08AM
  • poodlemasterb16_ESO
    poodlemasterb16_ESO
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    I don't care. I have been all over Craglorn. I have only grouped once and we got a tomb I guess. It's white now.

    I just love way deadly areas, and sneak around looking at stuff and fooling with the groups of mobs. I die a lot there, no big deal, I don't seem to die anywhere else much and that's a bit lame, so I look on it as some place to at least get a challenge.
  • pilotfish
    pilotfish
    ✭✭✭
    Forced group content is good!
    i prefer to solo :) sory but it's what i love to do.

    I enjoy soloing very much. I spend all of my time in Craglorn recently.


    theyancey wrote: »
    I'm a solo PvE player only. Great game so far! Looks like for me and my ilk it is coming to an end however. :(

    It shouldn't be coming to an end I think. Push it to the limit! Solo Craglorn. Look at it like a puzzle. A little practice and problem solving can go a long way.

    I appreciate the instances when an encounter is beyond me. I appreciate the need to group for some things from the solo player's perspective.

    The only adjustment I would like to see is the smoothing over of phasing issues for quests so someone who has completed one may still help others who have not. I am pretty sure this is something which will be addressed in the future.

    I was extremely disappointed when VR1-10 zones were tuned down. If it wasn't still a challenge to solo in an area like Craglorn, I am not sure that I would still be subscribed.





  • Morvul
    Morvul
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    Forced group content is good!
    "play the way you want"

    as long as you don't mind being 2 veteran ranks behind everyone else with substandard gear.
    (emphasis mine)

    by that logic: are you saying that trials should be soloable as well?


    sersiously folks: If you want to play a singleplayer elderscrolls game - go play Skyrim or Oblivion (or even Morrowind if you can get past the dated graphics).
    All of those do the singleplayer thing way, way better then ESO ever will.

    ESO is an MMO, which incidentially means MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER...
    Why would you insist on paying 15$ a month to play something inferior to a product without monthly fees?
    I on the other hand choose to pay 15$ a month to play something where I can do things impossible in the singleplayer product without those fees. namely: PLAYING TOGETHER WITH OTHER PLAYERS!
    Edited by Morvul on August 18, 2014 6:59AM
  • tengri
    tengri
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    Forced group content is bad!
    What needs to go are pointless 4-player gates that serve no real purpose other than... well... forcing 4 ppl.
    E.g. for opening a door and stuff - once inside a duo or even a very good single player can manage perfectly fine.
    But no... there is a stupid 4-ppl door locking away the content. So ***.
  • born2beagator
    born2beagator
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    Forced group content is bad!
    Its a terrible idea. Unfortunately ZOS isn't listening to its players on this one.
  • Pangnirtung
    Pangnirtung
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    Forced group content is bad!
    Its a terrible idea. Unfortunately ZOS isn't listening to its players on this one.

    I think ZOS was listening to players early on and this is the result. Unfortunately the players they were listening to were the ones who WANT to and LOVE to play group style. So what did ZOS do? They obliged their customer base.

    Now it is OUR turn to gripe, complain, *** and threaten to leave. ZOS has a record of listening. Sadly I will probably leave and never come back having moved onto other things.
  • adrian3
    adrian3
    Soul Shriven
    Forced group content is bad!
    No! No Forced Group Content! I am socially inept, and sometimes group mates demand more interaction outside of what is just required for the dungeon. Like people that want to Skype for dungeons and then sneak in talking about life and all their other miseries while playing the game. I haven't experienced that here yet, but its happened a lot to me on WoW.
  • reften
    reften
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    Forced group content is good!
    just need better grouping tools. A simple, click on a quest, and click on others looking to do that quest mechanic
    Reften
    Bosmer (Wood Elf)
    Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild

    VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.

    Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.

    Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.

    Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.
  • atomikrej
    atomikrej
    ✭✭
    Forced group content is good!
    Craglorn is fine as it is.
    OP - no thanks. Dolmens and world bosses are not group content, but solo content and if the only other group content was vet dungeons and trials I would not do it because it is too hard. They are not pug friendly as they are too technical. Crag delves and quests on the other hand have a gentle introduction to group play, where I can train my role (tank) and improve over time within my comfort zone
  • Morrawind
    Morrawind
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    Forced group content is bad!
    Forced 'anything' is bad. Too many things in teso are forced.
    Edited by Morrawind on August 23, 2014 1:28PM
  • Anastasia
    Anastasia
    ✭✭✭✭
    Its a terrible idea. Unfortunately ZOS isn't listening to its players on this one.

    I think ZOS was listening to players early on and this is the result.
    Unfortunately the players they were listening to were the ones who WANT to and LOVE to play group style. So what did ZOS do? They obliged their customer base.


    Now it is OUR turn to gripe, complain, *** and threaten to leave. ZOS has a record of listening. Sadly I will probably leave and never come back having moved onto other things.

    You gotta, GOTTA be kidding me, right? The highlighted sentence in your post is misinformation. Did you follow/read/inform yourself of ANY of the forward promo's, marketing spiels, interviews or fansite info on this MMO before you bought it? Why did you buy this MMO if what you really wanted was soloability all the time, through all zones but just with a chat box and the occasional delve, or short dungeon if you got a wild hair and decided you just might want to group up???? MMO's have a mix of content for a wide range of playstyles.

    Zeni's ORIGINAL design, the creation they worked on for YEARS was to have some PvP content, some solo content, and some mid-to-upper level challenging grouping content. That is undisputable. That was what many, many PvE MMO players based a primary part of their reasoning to buy this MMo on and to subscribe to it. It was Zeni's later capitulation to those who wanted MORE soloing that resulted in the Vet+ 1-10 content Nerf.

    Well that, and the fact that players certainly didn't lobby hard enough for Zeni to fix phasing, fix the group finder, and up the group e x p and group loot/rewards INSTEAD OF NERFING. Heh, nerfing was the easiest thing and the voices raised about 'wanting more soloability' is EXACTLY what enabled ZOS to choose that easy route rather than spend time and money on correcting the issues in the GROUPING CONTENT.

    Its clear ZOS has plans for whatever it is they consider to be a good 'mix' of all three and other playstyles. They are releasing the content in the order they have chosen. There WILL be more solo content -- Wrothgar is coming. None of us can expect ZOS to either 1.) Release nothing unless there is something for everyone every single time they release new content, or 2.) Make dual phased soloable content for every single new content they have worked on and plan to ever release. :|







    Edited by Anastasia on August 23, 2014 9:04AM
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    Anastasia wrote: »
    Its a terrible idea. Unfortunately ZOS isn't listening to its players on this one.

    I think ZOS was listening to players early on and this is the result.
    Unfortunately the players they were listening to were the ones who WANT to and LOVE to play group style. So what did ZOS do? They obliged their customer base.


    Now it is OUR turn to gripe, complain, *** and threaten to leave. ZOS has a record of listening. Sadly I will probably leave and never come back having moved onto other things.

    You gotta, GOTTA be kidding me, right? The highlighted sentence in your post is misinformation. Did you follow/read/inform yourself of ANY of the forward promo's, marketing spiels, interviews or fansite info on this MMO before you bought it? Why did you buy this MMO if what you really wanted was soloability all the time, through all zones but just with a chat box and the occasional delve, or short dungeon if you got a wild hair and decided you just might want to group up???? MMO's have a mix of content for a wide range of playstyles.

    Zeni's ORIGINAL design, the creation they worked on for YEARS was to have some PvP content, some solo content, and some mid-to-upper level challenging grouping content. That is undisputable. That was what many, many PvE MMO players based a primary part of their reasoning to buy this MMo on and to subscribe to it. It was Zeni's later capitulation to those who wanted MORE soloing that resulted in the Vet+ 1-10 content Nerf.

    Well that, and the fact that players certainly didn't lobby hard enough for Zeni to fix phasing, fix the group finder, and up the group e x p and group loot/rewards INSTEAD OF NERFING. Heh, nerfing was the easiest thing and the voices raised about 'wanting more soloability' is EXACTLY what enabled ZOS to choose that easy route rather than spend time and money on correcting the issues in the GROUPING CONTENT.

    Its clear ZOS has plans for whatever it is they consider to be a good 'mix' of all three and other playstyles. They are releasing the content in the order they have chosen. There WILL be more solo content -- Wrothgar is coming. None of us can expect ZOS to either 1.) Release nothing unless there is something for everyone every single time they release new content, or 2.) Make dual phased soloable content for every single new content they have worked on and plan to ever release. :|








    1st I agree with you on nurfing vet stuff....I'll get that out straight away.

    But..I think you are missing the point and falling in the same pit as most on this site.
    Leveling is not SOLO content (soloable != solo content).
    Most of the content is "open world" where you exist with everyone else on line that is in your area of the map. This is the MMO side of TESO. Everyone talks to each other, works together and does the maps/quests/monsters together. THIS IS NOT SOLO CONTENT ANY MORE THAN GROUP CONTENT.....I have to shout because no one appears to listen. This is space shared by everyone.

    The other side of this is the personal areas for small groups of people to have their very own little sandbox/instance. 4 or 12 at present. You argue this is more social than the open world aspect of the game which includes everyone and then call this open world ..solo content to boot. One aspect has 100s of players on map and the other has upto 12 players.

    What we 'solo' players are asking for is dedicated instances for 1-12 players...as opposed to open world. If you want to do those areas with group sizes in between 1-12, there should be no reason you couldn't. SOLO players can solo....guild buddies can group up for the same content in the same area that scales to suit.

    We are not asking for 'exclusive' content any more the 12 man or 4 man groups are asking for exclusive content and world play is all inclusive (phasing issues you mentioned aside).
    Edited by Rune_Relic on August 23, 2014 11:29AM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • ZoM_Head
    ZoM_Head
    ✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    Its horrible, i like to take my time, see whats going on and experience the story as it should.

    I tried to group up for 2 days for any quest in Craglorn, absolutely nothing. Spammed zone chat, used group search and nothing.

    Do not force me to group up, when i can not even find a group to play with for 2 days and counting now.
    mDKs still need a lot of love!
  • ZoM_Head
    ZoM_Head
    ✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    People still do not get it though, one is not forced to do it, no one is forced to go to craglorn... and if going there you are not forced to group either, but you might expect severe difficulties here and there if not grouped.

    We have 16 Areas of solo gameplay, including worldbosses, dolmens, delves, public delves.

    We have 1 Area which recommend group content, it is all down to that.

    People playing games are becoming a joke though, this little extra hard stuff there is it is like they are giving up and fail to be constructive, you do not want to weaken something that is supposed to be, but you want to improve ways of the current system and stick to that.

    People are dead afraid of grouping for anything in this game, so create a trend where it is not, this is also a community playerbase thing to archieve.

    If one suck at everything one do, and peopel do not want to group with a person because screwing up, not listening to what is going to happen next and the likes, then they have brought that down onto themself... bad reputation is a killer to most characters.... and it does not mean that the game should be shaped around those people either.

    Right, you are not forced to go to Craglorn at all, so us achievment hunters can just ditch all the achievments for quests, exploration and skyshards for an entire zone. Just leave it and do what exactly? not everyone enjoy pvp...go fishing?

    Could not find a group in 2 days and counting, i completed everything from all other zones 100% except collectables and fishing.....what do you want me to do?
    Edited by ZoM_Head on August 23, 2014 2:56PM
    mDKs still need a lot of love!
  • Tharvall
    Tharvall
    ✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    they can add all the forced group content they want - if there is still a possibility to reach vr14 without grouping. doesn't have to be new solo zones.

    but right now it looks like a giant group play timesink for me. actually shouldn't be a suprise, matt firor pulled the same crap with trials of atlantis in daoc. that was the beginning of the end of daoc. great!

    With vr14 and forced group content to reach that new cap, lots of people will turn away from ESO. I don't think that is a good thing for this game.

    One would assume that a company like Zenimax knows what it is doing and that running an MMO requires a lot of thoughtful planning and strategy. You know, theoretically.
    However, looking at the failed MMOs in the past it seems that those companies in general know sh*t about what they're doing, so why would this be different.
  • Fissh
    Fissh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is good!
    Its good, but they need to allow more accommodation to others joining group. Meaning, dont make it so people who are not on your 'stage' of quest cant enter instance (and they are addressing this, btw). Also, it would help for the reward to be better for said quest, i.e. make it more valuable for someone to help with the group quest even though they are not at that particular 'stage' of the story.
    <X-Raided>
  • grimjim398
    grimjim398
    ✭✭✭
    Forced group content is good!
    Nice way to write a poll, by the way. Do you like the fact that the game FORCES you to do group content or do you want group content WHERE IT BELONGS. Very neutral wording. That's why I voted against the choice that OP obviously wanted me to pick.
  • starlizard70ub17_ESO
    starlizard70ub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I didn't vote because the reply I want to give isn't there. Grouping, group areas are fine. But the way one groups in Craiglorn is poorly designed. Too many people only grind because grouping for quests is too difficult.
    "We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."
  • SBR_QuorTek
    SBR_QuorTek
    ✭✭✭
    Forced group content is good!
    People still do not get it though, one is not forced to do it, no one is forced to go to craglorn... and if going there you are not forced to group either, but you might expect severe difficulties here and there if not grouped.

    We have 16 Areas of solo gameplay, including worldbosses, dolmens, delves, public delves.

    We have 1 Area which recommend group content, it is all down to that.

    People playing games are becoming a joke though, this little extra hard stuff there is it is like they are giving up and fail to be constructive, you do not want to weaken something that is supposed to be, but you want to improve ways of the current system and stick to that.

    People are dead afraid of grouping for anything in this game, so create a trend where it is not, this is also a community playerbase thing to archieve.

    If one suck at everything one do, and peopel do not want to group with a person because screwing up, not listening to what is going to happen next and the likes, then they have brought that down onto themself... bad reputation is a killer to most characters.... and it does not mean that the game should be shaped around those people either.

    Right, you are not forced to go to Craglorn at all, so us achievment hunters can just ditch all the achievments for quests, exploration and skyshards for an entire zone. Just leave it and do what exactly? not everyone enjoy pvp...go fishing?

    Could not find a group in 2 days and counting, i completed everything from all other zones 100% except collectables and fishing.....what do you want me to do?

    Join a helpfull guild maybe?

    I do agree to that you have to find people on the same step though for some of the stuff should be fixed.

    I am sure if spend a little time you can find or get a group for it, I know it should not be impossible.

    There is no need to cry about it as it is, do something about stuff instead and also not all archievements should be dead easy to get which the rest of the game seem like as long as putting in a little effort here and there.

    If want to do something about it, completely remove direct grinding features in Craglorn of any sort could be a partly solution to everything.
    Edited by SBR_QuorTek on August 23, 2014 9:49PM
  • Drakoleon
    Drakoleon
    ✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    Its BAD especialy now that so many people have quit the game due to all these problems and bugs I used to have 30-40 people from my 80friends list on line and now they are 4-5 max!
    Hard to find good groups anyways....so Craglorn is dead the way it is.Only xp runners and some quild groups lately
    Helpfull quild??? Do you have any in mind? I ve been around and they all "advertise" PVE activities but they all concntrate in PVP...well at least that happened to me with the last 4 quilds i tryed
    I belive all forced group maps will fail unless lots of people come back and play the game again cause newcomers wont be many they all know about the ESO big problems
  • Tharvall
    Tharvall
    ✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    they could have made the quests in craglorn solo quests and the rest group stuff. no one needs group quests!
  • ZoM_Head
    ZoM_Head
    ✭✭✭✭
    Forced group content is bad!
    People still do not get it though, one is not forced to do it, no one is forced to go to craglorn... and if going there you are not forced to group either, but you might expect severe difficulties here and there if not grouped.

    We have 16 Areas of solo gameplay, including worldbosses, dolmens, delves, public delves.

    We have 1 Area which recommend group content, it is all down to that.

    People playing games are becoming a joke though, this little extra hard stuff there is it is like they are giving up and fail to be constructive, you do not want to weaken something that is supposed to be, but you want to improve ways of the current system and stick to that.

    People are dead afraid of grouping for anything in this game, so create a trend where it is not, this is also a community playerbase thing to archieve.

    If one suck at everything one do, and peopel do not want to group with a person because screwing up, not listening to what is going to happen next and the likes, then they have brought that down onto themself... bad reputation is a killer to most characters.... and it does not mean that the game should be shaped around those people either.

    Right, you are not forced to go to Craglorn at all, so us achievment hunters can just ditch all the achievments for quests, exploration and skyshards for an entire zone. Just leave it and do what exactly? not everyone enjoy pvp...go fishing?

    Could not find a group in 2 days and counting, i completed everything from all other zones 100% except collectables and fishing.....what do you want me to do?

    Join a helpfull guild maybe?

    I do agree to that you have to find people on the same step though for some of the stuff should be fixed.

    I am sure if spend a little time you can find or get a group for it, I know it should not be impossible.

    There is no need to cry about it as it is, do something about stuff instead and also not all archievements should be dead easy to get which the rest of the game seem like as long as putting in a little effort here and there.

    If want to do something about it, completely remove direct grinding features in Craglorn of any sort could be a partly solution to everything.

    Go spend 4 days trying to find a group to help you for one quest then come back and repeat what you said. I am not "crying" about anything, it just does not make sense to make my character get stuck and have nothing to do but fishing and collectables.

    Join a helpful guild? send me a list of active VR12 players who are constantly active and hitting trails and actually do indeed help.
    mDKs still need a lot of love!
  • dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO
    dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    people who cant find groups, do none of you have guilds? I have multiple guilds that just look for people to play with, there are always people making groups. maybe join some new guilds instead of getting annoyed at people looking for recruits. there are people looking to complete content. zone spam is not always the best route.
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