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Craglorn and forced group content good idea or bad idea.

gimpdrb14_ESO
gimpdrb14_ESO
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Do you want more craglorn style zones with forced group content or do you think we should keep group content where it belongs, trails, dungeons world bosses and dolmens.
Edited by gimpdrb14_ESO on August 14, 2014 6:58PM

Craglorn and forced group content good idea or bad idea. 210 votes

Forced group content is good!
26%
The_DrexillLauraindytims_ESOVeshalFisshKungfuTheBullEuckenDilarnMorvulWodwoEliteZmartinhpb16_ESOEnodockwisatzMyrtilleDomperidonericprydz82ub17_ESOleandro.800ub17_ESOOrimas 55 votes
Forced group content is bad!
73%
UdyrfrykteSirAndyflintstoneLiquoriceAnthony_ArndtRohnedwemer_paleologistAnrikmilesrodneymcneely2_ESOtheyanceyJasirusStxDemiraPsychobunnidaryl.rasmusenb14_ESODiviniusRatatouillegimpdrb14_ESONivana1717Esha76 155 votes
  • Lord_Draevan
    Lord_Draevan
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    Forced group content is bad!
    As someone who was unable to find a group from late May to monday of this week for the final Craglorn zone quest (despite trying every weekend), I dislike forcing group content for main zone quests. Trials and group dungeons, that's fine. But not for main zone quests. Especially for Craglorn, where the VAST majority of players only want to grind or Trial.
    I'm a man of few words. Any questions?
  • UPrime
    UPrime
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    Forced group content is good!
    I say it's good, but only if there's incentive for others to do it as well, and cheap grinds are removed. So that way it's easy and fun to actually get a group going.
  • Nox_Aeterna
    Nox_Aeterna
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    Forced group content is bad!
    Most forced content is a bad idea.

    Personally i would rather have everything be an option. They shouldnt have craglorn force us to group to complete BUT they shouldnt also require us to play some quests in solo instances.

    There should be solo instances , for solo trials, solo dungeons... just like there are for groups currently.

    All of those should be on the side , not around the main path of an area , example , would the current anchors/world bosses/group dungeons , those "require" (or should anyway) groups , but dont deny you entry in an area for not grouping.
    Edited by Nox_Aeterna on August 14, 2014 7:21PM
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
    -Hanlon's razor
  • Vahrokh
    Vahrokh
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    Forced group content is bad!
    What we got is not "just" forced group.

    It's a deeply flawed way to conceive force-grouping while making it impossible to happen.

    I too am waiting since weeks just to do a couple of basic 4 men quests and instances in Craglorn. I can spend as much time I want begging for a group from 8am to 3am of the next day and nobody will care. The few times I got 3 people (4 is too much), at least one of them was either locked out or anyway made unable to participate to the quest.
    Edited by Vahrokh on August 15, 2014 10:57AM
  • Blooddancer
    Blooddancer
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    Forced group content is bad!
    I am currently running through VR zones which are empty - the same will happen to Craglorn as new content is added so ultimately there will be no-one other than a few die-hards and the occasional organised group.
  • gimpdrb14_ESO
    gimpdrb14_ESO
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    Forced group content is bad!
    I am currently running through VR zones which are empty - the same will happen to Craglorn as new content is added so ultimately there will be no-one other than a few die-hards and the occasional organised group.

    yuo are 100% right
  • ebondeath
    ebondeath
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    Forced group content is bad!
    The existence of forced group content wouldn't bother me if there were an equivalent zone for solo players. As it stands, leveling from VR10-12 is a painful mix of finishing off VR10 zone questing, Cyrodiil pvp and pve (and by the time I was finished entirely with these first two options I was only halfway through VR10), and grinding in Craglorn with a group. Can't quest in Craglorn without a group, and it's sad to say that questing there is probably not the normal player experience. I don't mind the end game content that's group only, it's being forced to group to level that bothers me.
    ╔═════════════⌈Alannah Corvaine⌋══════════════╗
    Rise, rise! To freedom, rise! Arise, ye Breton sons and daughters.
    Ride, ride! To freedom, ride! Truth and glory to the brave!
    ╚═════════════⌊VR 12 Breton NB⌉══════════════╝
  • Xeres14
    Xeres14
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    Forced group content is bad!
    It's bad. grouping should be optional but the rewards should be so good that it's tempting to do.
  • KBKB
    KBKB
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    Forced group content is bad!
    I see what they are trying to do I really do, but some single player options would be nice.
    Stare into the void and the void stares back

    What would Magnum PI do?
  • Cody
    Cody
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    Forced group content is bad!
    well... if people did not only go there to grind maybe it would not be so bad.

    but as of now, people only want to grind in craglorn. If you cant find some guildies or friends, you won't be doing craglorn. its a HUGE disappointment of a zone in my opinion. It looks nice, but everything else(besides maybe trials) is a failure in my opinion. Here's hoping upper craglorn does not turn out the same way.
    Edited by Cody on August 15, 2014 3:07PM
  • Artemiisia
    Artemiisia
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    its not forced, if you dont like to do groups, heres the kicker, get ready for it, the secret is out

    DONT TRAVEL TO CRAGLORN. its amazing cool concept, some maps are groups, some are pvp, others are pve.

    Im totally blown away, now I can sleep at night
    PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
  • gimpdrb14_ESO
    gimpdrb14_ESO
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    Forced group content is bad!
    Artemiisia wrote: »
    its not forced, if you dont like to do groups, heres the kicker, get ready for it, the secret is out

    DONT TRAVEL TO CRAGLORN. its amazing cool concept, some maps are groups, some are pvp, others are pve.

    Im totally blown away, now I can sleep at night

    actually it is forced for people who wish to learn the story/history/lore. i dont mind grouping i just think group content should be for trails and dungeons.
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    Forced group content is good!
    ... but by this I by no means mean the current implementation is good. I like the premise of having quest content designed for groups, but only if it can be participated in on a whim by PUGs. The whole "I am on quest step X so everyone else must be too" is the worst part of it. If I could join any group at any stage of any quest, then and only then is it a good idea.
    Edited by Enodoc on August 15, 2014 6:00PM
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
  • dwemer_paleologist
    dwemer_paleologist
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    Forced group content is bad!
    i prefer to solo :) sory but it's what i love to do.
    please increase sneak speeds.

    PC NA

  • Head.hunter
    Head.hunter
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    Oh common guys it's not like the whole game is forcing group content, it's just craglorn have fun with it.
    I'm just a banana from another dimension.
  • SBR_QuorTek
    SBR_QuorTek
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    Forced group content is good!
    The area was designed for group content, it would be like screaming loudly in cyrodiil *PLEASE DON*T KILL ME' kind of idealogy.

    Basically I think people are just not willing to put in any kind of effort for doing stuff anymore as it is.

    Yes some specs can solo some of it (all classes).

    The game is already to *** easy that even a blind man randomly moving into directions pressing 3 buttons can accomplish pretty much everything.

    We need some challenge, and taking away grouping in Craglorn would somewhat make the game even more barren than what it already is, also renderign the area pointless to get to.

    Also it would ruin the content for the people that want something more out of it.
  • Cody
    Cody
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    Forced group content is bad!
    The area was designed for group content, it would be like screaming loudly in cyrodiil *PLEASE DON*T KILL ME' kind of idealogy.

    Basically I think people are just not willing to put in any kind of effort for doing stuff anymore as it is.

    Yes some specs can solo some of it (all classes).

    The game is already to *** easy that even a blind man randomly moving into directions pressing 3 buttons can accomplish pretty much everything.

    We need some challenge, and taking away grouping in Craglorn would somewhat make the game even more barren than what it already is, also renderign the area pointless to get to.

    Also it would ruin the content for the people that want something more out of it.
    well if people actually wanted to do the quests it would not be a problem:/
  • Nox_Aeterna
    Nox_Aeterna
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    Forced group content is bad!
    Artemiisia wrote: »
    its not forced, if you dont like to do groups, heres the kicker, get ready for it, the secret is out

    DONT TRAVEL TO CRAGLORN. its amazing cool concept, some maps are groups, some are pvp, others are pve.

    Im totally blown away, now I can sleep at night

    This is probably one of the silliest answers possible.

    In the end , the more content that is closed to players , the less players have to do in the game.

    People eventually used get bored of games and stop playing , on a game like ESo that wants subs , the trick is making people want to play it for the longest time possible.

    If they never even enter craglorn , which is a very big zone with multiple dungeons/quests... that is a LOT of content that to some players doesnt matter and it is so irrelevant that being there or not changes nothing to them.
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
    -Hanlon's razor
  • Anastasia
    Anastasia
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    Artemiisia wrote: »
    its not forced, if you dont like to do groups, heres the kicker, get ready for it, the secret is out

    DONT TRAVEL TO CRAGLORN. its amazing cool concept, some maps are groups, some are pvp, others are pve.

    Im totally blown away, now I can sleep at night


    Artemiisia, Artemiisia, Artemiisia...*shakes head and sends cookies, good rum-laced bar cookies.

    You are discussing an issue with some other players who used similar comments as their reasoning for demanding Vet+ content be nerfed, instead of lobbying for better group rewards, or more group e x p bonus for instance.

    Some very clearly said in other posts regarding areas which were designed for group content that they believe that it is not 'fair' if there is content in the game that excludes them. They define being excluded by saying that which has a product or reward or path they desire to involve themselves in because of the rewards available there, but which has a basis or framework of implementation which is not their preferred playstyle should not be out of their reach. See July 7th Vet+ content nerf. Craglorn is now targeted. Cyr also, and soon all upcoming content will be expected to have parallel virtual phases for solo and group play apparently.

    Further, they have said in posts on this forum that it is inherently unfair for there to actually be content in the game which has good rewards for instance, or other desireable elements within it, but which, being based on a playstyle they do not prefer that they should be able to get said reward, without participating in the other 'forced playstyle'. This reasoning has also been used in threads discussing the merits and guesses about the upcoming Justice System and its interweaving of PvE and PvP.

    If its there, they expect access to it, but do not believe they should be 'forced' to risk the same as others in order to get it, or that they should be able to avoid the consequences of choices because those consequences involve an aspect of gameplay that they do not enjoy.

    *Blinks innocently ;) and reaches for a bowl of something good while thinking about society, fun in the sack and unicorns, all of which relate in some way to preference, fairness and exclusion not unlike 'forced grouping.' >:)

    Edited by Anastasia on August 16, 2014 12:41AM
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    Forced group content is bad!
    I would be fine with this group content if it weren't for heavy phasing and requiring people to be on the same step for some of the things that require 4 people. Because of that I haven't really attempted the quests there.

    And of course, we've got another forced group content zone coming out, which makes me sad because I do want to experience the story.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • Cody
    Cody
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    Forced group content is bad!
    I would be fine with this group content if it weren't for heavy phasing and requiring people to be on the same step for some of the things that require 4 people. Because of that I haven't really attempted the quests there.

    And of course, we've got another forced group content zone coming out, which makes me sad because I do want to experience the story.
    lets hope its not just a grind zone.
  • Morvul
    Morvul
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    Forced group content is good!
    why in the name of whatever deity is holy to them, do so many folks insist on playing MMOs without wanting to interact with other players???
  • Morvul
    Morvul
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    Forced group content is good!
    Artemiisia wrote: »
    its not forced, if you dont like to do groups, heres the kicker, get ready for it, the secret is out

    DONT TRAVEL TO CRAGLORN. its amazing cool concept, some maps are groups, some are pvp, others are pve.

    Im totally blown away, now I can sleep at night

    This is probably one of the silliest answers possible.

    In the end , the more content that is closed to players , the less players have to do in the game.

    People eventually used get bored of games and stop playing , on a game like ESo that wants subs , the trick is making people want to play it for the longest time possible.

    If they never even enter craglorn , which is a very big zone with multiple dungeons/quests... that is a LOT of content that to some players doesnt matter and it is so irrelevant that being there or not changes nothing to them.

    And if I play a MMO because it's, you know, a freaking MULTIPLAYER game, then all the solo content is not really content, is it?
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Forced group content is bad!
    At the end of the day "cos this is an mmo" is a moot point. What you mean is every other MMO behaves this way so ESO must.
    I dont subscribe to this view and think its lame and is just a recipe for the same failings as every other MMO.

    This game has a huge fanbase. Many of which are genuine MMO players and many of which are TES players. Those TES players love this game and still want he option to play it like a TES game (solo dungeons). Those MMO players want the option to play it as a group game.

    I have no objection to either of these as they both provide a sizeable chunk of revenue and keep the game going. But there are some provisos that need addressing that are currently causing issues.

    1. All dungeon delve areas should have a group and public versions.
    2. The public version should be public access quest areas.
    3. The group versions should be for 1-12 player groups.
    4. The group versions should not only scale to suit the number of players in the group but also scale with difficulty for the total players too.

    This way solo players will run it at 100% difficulty for 1 player, where 12 players will run it suitable for 12 players at 300% difficulty as an example. By scaling to suit players and increasing the difficulty too, everyones needs are met.

    The TES players and couples can wander any dungeon at their leisure in their own time with outside interference.

    The public content still exists for quests.

    The MMO players not only get to play as a team, the difficulty of the area also increases depending on how many are in that team. So this caters for all levels of MMO player from the novice to the most hardcore guilds.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on August 16, 2014 8:41AM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • SBR_QuorTek
    SBR_QuorTek
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    Forced group content is good!
    Ït is the scenario where you put a fat kid into a candy store and tell him everything is free..

    Some content is meant for groups some is not, this is an MMO expecting everything to be solo is wishful thinking, expect there to be group content.

    If want the work around, ok make eg, delves have a solo option, but remove the archievement and reduce the XP by 4-5X times, and drop the loot tables down to any other delve in game.
  • SBR_QuorTek
    SBR_QuorTek
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    Forced group content is good!
    NookyZooky wrote: »
    The area was designed for group content, it would be like screaming loudly in cyrodiil *PLEASE DON*T KILL ME' kind of idealogy.



    Basically I think people are just not willing to put in any kind of effort for doing stuff anymore as it is.

    Yes some specs can solo some of it (all classes).

    The game is already to *** easy that even a blind man randomly moving into directions pressing 3 buttons can accomplish pretty much everything.

    We need some challenge, and taking away grouping in Craglorn would somewhat make the game even more barren than what it already is, also renderign the area pointless to get to.

    Also it would ruin the content for the people that want something more out of it.
    well if people actually wanted to do the quests it would not be a problem:/

    Besides putting this as 'forces group content' is just a bit ackward put as well, it is not forced, the zone is a zone for grouping, it is even advertized as that, which make is all volounterely, as for XP there is more than one way getting XP and if doing an effort you would be vr12 even before you hit craglorn.

    That is what guilds are for and as for any other group content it take time getting a group regardless of whichever.

    This is also an MMO, just because some zone require more just mean you have to put in a greater effort, and people are afraid of additional work as it seem in this entire thread.

    Kill the game off = remove any challenge

    And in time it would be even more pointless to play TESO as it is...

    Edited by SBR_QuorTek on August 16, 2014 9:31AM
  • theyancey
    theyancey
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    Forced group content is bad!
    I'm a solo PvE player only. Great game so far! Looks like for me and my ilk it is coming to an end however. :(
  • Oevaag_Bur
    Oevaag_Bur
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    Forced group content is good!
    For an MMO that, it seems, everyone wants to play as a single player game I think it's pretty essential to be honest.
  • Spuddlethud
    Spuddlethud
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    Forced group content is bad!
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    At the end of the day "cos this is an mmo" is a moot point. What you mean is every other MMO behaves this way so ESO must.
    I dont subscribe to this view and think its lame and is just a recipe for the same failings as every other MMO.

    This game has a huge fanbase. Many of which are genuine MMO players and many of which are TES players. Those TES players love this game and still want he option to play it like a TES game (solo dungeons). Those MMO players want the option to play it as a group game.

    I have no objection to either of these as they both provide a sizeable chunk of revenue and keep the game going. But there are some provisos that need addressing that are currently causing issues.

    1. All dungeon delve areas should have a group and public versions.
    2. The public version should be public access quest areas.
    3. The group versions should be for 1-12 player groups.
    4. The group versions should not only scale to suit the number of players in the group but also scale with difficulty for the total players too.

    This way solo players will run it at 100% difficulty for 1 player, where 12 players will run it suitable for 12 players at 300% difficulty as an example. By scaling to suit players and increasing the difficulty too, everyones needs are met.

    The TES players and couples can wander any dungeon at their leisure in their own time with outside interference.

    The public content still exists for quests.

    The MMO players not only get to play as a team, the difficulty of the area also increases depending on how many are in that team. So this caters for all levels of MMO player from the novice to the most hardcore guilds.

    This 100%.
  • indytims_ESO
    indytims_ESO
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    Forced group content is good!
    I think it is perfectly acceptable - and even expected - to have forced-grouped content present in an MMO.

    However, I would hope a good dev would provide forced-group content IN ADDITION TO solo content IN ADDITION TO LARGE group content (i.e raids).

    There is room for all three, and all three SHOULD be a staple of MMOs.

    If all you -ever- want to see is solo content - there are countless single-player games available for your enjoyment.
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