Remember how a death in EQ really ment something tough ?

Preyfar

No. Nope. Nada. Do not want.

I played Ultima Online for 5.5 years (hell, I was even support in the game as "Counselor Saracen" on Europa/Drachs). You know why I am vehemently against brutal punishments for dying? In UO, unless you had bound/blessed gear, you risked losing everything -- EVERYTHING -- you had on your body at the time of death.

There was nothing more demoralizing than running out to a fight, losing connection, and logging in to find all your gear that you'd worked so hard on is now gone because the game crashed/lost conn. Sure, they eventually patched it in so bodies were unlootable for a certain amount of time, but it didn't make things better.

The game doesn't need to hold my hand, but nor does it need to punish me because I took a risk, tried a new skill that didn't work, crashed, had to take a phone call or something unforeseen happened.

I get having a death penalty, but I really feel there's better options out there.

Inversus

I really question the logic in punishing players for failure. If you are unable to complete a quest, what's the logic in further challenging the player with said quest by deteriorating their ability to succeed.
I personally like challenges, but death penalties..? A no for me.

firesparx

"phonecall brb" oh *** all my gear gone in ultima online .. ya that will really please the current bigger mmo crowd :P . Sorry for this finer example, but come on those games were one of a kind back then. Now they are certainly not anymore. If you want die hard game mechanics, just play that game then and yes with the ancient engine.

Dagoth_Rac

I played through Ghosts n Goblins. At the arcade, feeding the machine quarters. None of this in the comfort of your home in front of the NES. I know all about hard games from back in the day. But you know what? I was like 12. What else was I gonna do with my time? Now, I want to play the game I am paying for. I have neither the time nor patience for those types of grinding, repetitive timesinks. Especially since they were usually there to mask a lack of content.

Also, nothing stopping you from right-clicking your equipment and hitting Destroy after you die. But I bet you never do that. Because this is rarely about wanting the "challenge" back. It is about wanting the next generation to put up with the same garbage you did.

Preyfar

firesparx wrote: »

"phonecall brb" oh *** all my gear gone in ultima online .. ya that will really please the current bigger mmo crowd :P . Sorry for this finer example, but come on those games were one of a kind back then. Now they are certainly not anymore. If you want die hard game mechanics, just play that game then and yes with the ancient engine.

Not to mention, death penalties will really turn people off from Vet Dungeons or some of the harder areas where risk is still pretty high. Finding people for a Vet Dungeon is hard enough already, penalties would just make it nightmarishly worse. Yeah, I suppose the feeling of overcoming the dungeon would be greater, but... I want a challenging dungeon, NOT a challenge finding people TO DO the dungeon.

Xeres14

I didn't play EQ but UO had a similar circumstances with death and retrieving your corpse. My UO guild used Yahoo chat in the day which every guild member needed to have. Our better geared players were part of the SOS squad. Someone would type in SOS and where they were in game and the SOS squad used to drop everything (in game), recall to the Guild House and open a portal to the closest runestone to the player's corpse to 1 - retrieve items, and 2 -rez the player.

Very fond memories.

Cogo

crowfl56 wrote: »

I was thinking back on my EQ days, exciting and rewarding. Wondering how many players in today's MMO could take the challenge of a really tough game?

Example: You are solo, doing your lets see how many level's I can get in a hour ? When bam, you die. Now here come's the fun. You go back to your bind point, wherever that may be ? You now have to get back to your body and recover all of you gear, weapons and anything you had in your packs. Which means you are totally neeked and trying to run thru a hostile land, which could be many zone's.

You also notice that hard earned level you just gained in now gone and you're back to your previous level, oops, bummer.

You run and sprint, hide and run some more, when dang it just 100' from your body, you are attacked and killed again.

Now you have 2 body's out there you need to recover, so back to getting to those 2 bodies.

Yahooo you make it this time, you get to your first body and recover all you stuff, and now you can survive a fight. Run back over to get that 2nd body, reason you did this is because both deaths cost you experience and when you get that body back you regain 80% of that experience you lost in that death.

If you where lucky enough to be far enough into that new level you just might regain that lost level.

Exciting, tell you what, I helped people recover as many as 5 or 6 bodies, and as a cleric in that game I could rez each body for you so you didn't lose any exp in that death.

You could also have someone, with your permission, drag your corpse to a zone line, so you didn't have to risk death after death trying to recover your corpse.

So now you can get back to leveling, he he.

Trust me, that made for some of the most exciting time's for me in any game, then or now.

Do you think you could handle that type of excitement ?

I would LOVE it!!!!!!

Mataata

That sounds really annoying. I'm glad they got rid of it, because I'd rather have a challenge actually fighting monsters over having a challenge just because they kill you in two unavoidable hits and cause you to loose all of your stuff.

Bazzakrak

Well now that we are talking about old EQ and being a bit nostalgic.
Someone HAS to link this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bm_fOFyAhA

PS.
And yeah I did play a ranger in EQ, some times were fun, others were hard, and sometimes you were asked to tank and percieved to get your butt spanked

LariahHunding

You remember that game where you had to walk two miles to school in snow drifts higher than your head. And you only got presents at Christmas, stick candy and an orange.

Jeeze, old-timers....

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Xeres14 wrote: »

I didn't play EQ but UO had a similar circumstances with death and retrieving your corpse. My UO guild used Yahoo chat in the day which every guild member needed to have. Our better geared players were part of the SOS squad. Someone would type in SOS and where they were in game and the SOS squad used to drop everything (in game), recall to the Guild House and open a portal to the closest runestone to the player's corpse to 1 - retrieve items, and 2 -rez the player.

Very fond memories.

UO was harder than EQ when it came to death penalties. Much less of a grind though, since you could macro everything up.

fredarbonab14_ESO

Corpse runs were exciting, and IF not too heavy, just plain strategic fun. I would drop however, the 'loosing what you gained for that level' penalty of EQ, way too painful, even 15 years ago. The players that played back then were dead serious pioneering people, but now in their 30's+ and probably full of real-life responsibilities. They don't have the same time as they did once.

Today's MMOers collectively speaking, come from a different planet, who generally speaking have no clue what it was like, how long it took these games to make or get everything working, nor how dedicated one had to be to achieve anything in them. Nor have to be team players. You can tell that from the posts on these forum about things that we totally accepted and expected, today they talk as if they are 'entitled' for their lofty expectations to be matched, instantly.

I still love these MMO games, but make a beeline for guilds with 'older players' which generally come across a lot more - 'grateful'.

DieAlteHexe

fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

Corpse runs were exciting, and IF not too heavy, just plain strategic fun. I would drop however, the 'loosing what you gained for that level' penalty of EQ, way too painful, even 15 years ago. The players that played back then were dead serious pioneering people, but now in their 30's+ and probably full of real-life responsibilities. They don't have the same time as they did once.

Today's MMOers collectively speaking, come from a different planet, who generally speaking have no clue what it was like, how long it took these games to make or get everything working, nor how dedicated one had to be to achieve anything in them. Nor have to be team players. You can tell that from the posts on these forum about things that we totally accepted and expected, today they talk as if they are 'entitled' for their lofty expectations to be matched, instantly.

I still love these MMO games, but make a beeline for guilds with 'older players' which generally come across a lot more - 'grateful'.

30s? Try 50s and 60s. :P

fredarbonab14_ESO

LariahHunding wrote: »

You remember that game where you had to walk two miles to school in snow drifts higher than your head. And you only got presents at Christmas, stick candy and an orange.

Jeeze, old-timers....

LoL. That's my parent's usual line when I was growing up, now I do the same thing with my kids, or did.

Apophiss

crowfl56 wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Not much to handle, really.

First one that never played EQ

Oh forgot to mention, you are in a say, 20 person raid in a dungeon, deep in a dungeon. You wipe, now how do you get back to your bodies ?

That was a fun and exiting process also

I remember corpse runs.

The steps needed to get your stuff back:

• Bind 'corpse' (if I remember right) to a key.
• Get permission from player to move corpse.
• Cast invisible. Run in to location of slaughter.
• Find players body, spam the 'corpse' key as you run back to group with the dead body jumping after you.
• Repeat.

I remember my Death Knight being bugged for about 3-4 months. I wasn't able to gain XP OR lose XP. So I was the perfect person for the retrieval.
I would get tells pleading with me to "Save my gear!"

I think after a certain amount of time (was it a week?), that your body actually disappeared, and your time invested, uber gear, would be gone, forever.

Yes, back in the "Old Days", dying actually hurt.

It definitely would not fly with the instant gratification, entitled attitude of most players today.

SirAndy

crowfl56 wrote: »

Remember how a death in EQ really ment something tough ?

Nope ...

Anastasia

fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

Corpse runs were exciting, and IF not too heavy, just plain strategic fun. I would drop however, the 'loosing what you gained for that level' penalty of EQ, way too painful, even 15 years ago. The players that played back then were dead serious pioneering people, but now in their 30's+ and probably full of real-life responsibilities. They don't have the same time as they did once.

Today's MMOers collectively speaking, come from a different planet, who generally speaking have no clue what it was like, how long it took these games to make or get everything working, nor how dedicated one had to be to achieve anything in them. Nor have to be team players. You can tell that from the posts on these forum about things that we totally accepted and expected, today they talk as if they are 'entitled' for their lofty expectations to be matched, instantly.

I still love these MMO games, but make a beeline for guilds with 'older players' which generally come across a lot more - 'grateful'.

---

"today they talk as if they are 'entitled' for their lofty expectations to be matched, instantly."

(*) Repeatedly, in relation to literally almost every single conflicting issue raised. (*) Especially the convenience, speed and instantaneous demands of 'now.'

DieAlteHexe

Not a matter of "entitlement" to me. Life offers plenty of frustration and challenges. I don't need a game to provide more. I game to relax, have fun and socialise. If I want challenges, all I need do is log off and go forth into real life.

Logan9a

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I played through Ghosts n Goblins. At the arcade, feeding the machine quarters. None of this in the comfort of your home in front of the NES. I know all about hard games from back in the day. But you know what? I was like 12. What else was I gonna do with my time? Now, I want to play the game I am paying for. I have neither the time nor patience for those types of grinding, repetitive timesinks. Especially since they were usually there to mask a lack of content.

Also, nothing stopping you from right-clicking your equipment and hitting Destroy after you die. But I bet you never do that. Because this is rarely about wanting the "challenge" back. It is about wanting the next generation to put up with the same garbage you did.

This may be the most insightful thing I've read on these boards.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Screw all of you, I remember when it was really hard. Back in the days of Oregon Trail where half your party died of dysentary and your oxen drowned crossing the river. And then you just starved. And that's what you got and by god you LIKED it!

fredarbonab14_ESO

Now we talking like really 'old timers'. @Die, you are so right, make that 40's and 50's. I loved those days, the mutual struggles, and those players, and its so cool one could still find them playing MMOs now 2 decades later.

aleister

I had a lot more time to waste when I played UO & EQ.

fredarbonab14_ESO

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Screw all of you, I remember when it was really hard. Back in the days of Oregon Trail where half your party died of dysentary and your oxen drowned crossing the river. And then you just starved. And that's what you got and by god you LIKED it!

LoL. Now those were 'the good old days' (rolls eyes).

Royalroacho

I think that an element of having something to lose makes the game more exciting, and id be much more engaged in battles and gameplay if there were some higher stakes and some kind of consequences. The repair costs dont really mean anything. Maybe some kind of system where you can gain meaningful buffs or augments that you dont want to lose on death. Theres something missing, but personally dont think its corpse runs. To me thats really, really, really annoying. Real life is already annoying enough. I ate some bad tuna the other day, and was up all night on the bathroom floor writhing around. That was hardcore, but I didnt enjoy it at all. I dont wanna put up with being punished for being careless in games like I am in life haha. " Now you suffer for two hours!!" theres a well balanced idea somewhere out there.

TieFighter

i miss those days. people would band together and a gift of some boots meant something! Some banded mail? godly gift! no quest markers! single pull skills were NEEDED, fear kite, quad kite, pet kite. the ability to make some honest platinum by teleporting people to a certain destination. tradeskills were rewarded to anyone who was diligent. It took serious time and effort to achieve something and when you did complete a goal it was fulfilling- either because you found the skill to do it alone or met some good people that gave you their time to help you achieve it. After 2 months you were still a baby toon with massive amounts of goals to acquire still. not like these fast paced- stream lined games that "todays" gamers are coddled with but then are left with an empty feeling after reaching end game in 45 days. the bar has been set really low in favor of animation and graphics for people who dont even fit in this community and WoW is to blame.

Cathexis

Why not just send people to a brief challenge in Coldharbour prisons when they die, like a short boss fight. This would fit with the idea that of souls being harvested, and fighting your way to return to Nirn. This might also a bunch of interesting effects:

-Soul gems would be way more useful and people might actually carry them in battles.
-Vampirism Undeath could have an added feature that circumvents returning to Coldharbour before respawning
-A small scale pvp war that is Coldharbour based that would break up time spent in Cyrodiil.
-Full survivability builds would be more beneficial
-Reduced lag in Cyrodiil.