Spell Resistance? Bhahaha

Sai87RU

From Russia with love! Do not judge strictly, I have bad with English, so I asked for help from Google.

Preface: find someone who wrote the code for this part of the game and amputated his hands.

Simple addon HarvensExtendedStats (thanks to the author) unlocks the hidden characteristics of the character. The following code addon, please note that he did not calculate, but only shows the values ​​and tooltips, the provision of API.

local missingParameter = {}

local AddStatRowOrg = ZO_Stats.AddStatRow
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow = function(...)
missingParameter = (select(1,...))
local ret = AddStatRowOrg(...)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow = AddStatRowOrg
return ret
end

local CreateAttributesSectionOrg = ZO_Stats.CreateAttributesSection
ZO_Stats.CreateAttributesSection = function(...)
local ret = CreateAttributesSectionOrg(...)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,20)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter, STAT_ATTACK_POWER, STAT_HEALTH_REGEN_IDLE)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter, STAT_SPELL_PENETRATION, STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_IDLE)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter, STAT_PHYSICAL_PENETRATION, STAT_STAMINA_REGEN_IDLE)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_SPELL_MITIGATION,STAT_MITIGATION)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_HEALING_TAKEN, STAT_CRITICAL_RESISTANCE)

ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,20)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_COLD,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_DISEASE)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_DROWN,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_EARTH)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_FIRE,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_GENERIC)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_MAGIC,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_OBLIVION)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_PHYSICAL,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_POISON)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_SHOCK,STAT_NONE)

ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,20)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_DODGE,STAT_BLOCK)
ZO_Stats.SetNextControlPadding(missingParameter,0)
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow(missingParameter,STAT_PARRY,STAT_MISS)
return ret
end

Remarkable characteristics of Focus Rating and Armor Penetration all characters are nominally 100 units.
Tooltip Focus Rating: Makes your spell attacks bypass your target's spell resist.
Tooltip Armor Penetration: Makes your phisical attack bypass your target's armor.
Once again: API herself writes tooltip !!!

Character VR12, light armor skill level 50 passive skill Concentration Level 2.
Description:
Player's spells ignore X% of enemy Spell Resistance per piece of Light Armor equipped.

Naked characters, spell resist = 1320.
Dress light cap. spell resist 1408. Starts working Concentration, 6% bonus. Focus Rating 184. Um .... I correctly understood? Begin to calculate.
1408/100 * 6 = 84.48 according to the rules of mathematics rounded to the lower 84.
And 100 nominal, totaling 184 Bhah, penetration depends on the resistance of my own? Ahaha. Maybe I do not understand, I will wear light shoes.

Spell resist 1496. Concentration, 12%. Focus Rating 279
1496/100 * 12 + 100 = 279.52. According to the rules of mathematics should be 280, but not the essence. What a fun trend ....

Direction I caught, dress entirely in light armor, all 7 parts.
Spell resist 1932. Concentration, 42%. Focus Rating 911
1932/100 * 42 + 100 = 911.44. Bhahaha.

For the purity of experimentation, when exiting stealth triggered passive skill NB, which is called the Shadow Barrier and increases Armor and Spell Resist by 1750.

Spell resist 2667. Concentration, 42%. Focus Rating 1220
2667/100 * 42 + 100 = 1220.14
* hysterics *

BUT IT DOES NOT END !!! xDD

Take any two-handed weapon with a characteristic Sharpened, in my case it Artifact staff with a bonus of 12%.

Take the stable version of light armor x7 without invisibility.
Spell resist 1932. Concentration, 42%. Focus Rating 911
Based on the above should be as follows:
((1932/100 * 42) + (1932/100 * 42) / 100 * 12) + 100 = 1008.32
As it really is:
(1932/100 * 42 + 100) * 12 = 10932

10932 Spell Penetration (Focus Rating).
Do not forget that the bonus weapon also works for Armor Penetration, the base value is 100, and that, too, is multiplied by the number of indications in the weapon and in my case is 1200 units.



I understand that addons can not be trusted. So I decided to check the veracity of the data and make sure it's not a bubble.

Testbed:
Offensive VR12 NB
The testbed VR12 NB
Usable ability Swallow Soul. Tooltip damage 327.
Targets Spell Resist --- Attacker Spell Penetration (Focus Rating) --- Damage Done
1320 --- 1200 --- 310 - Offensive naked, equip the weapons above a specified
1320 --- 2208 --- 340 // Weapon and one piece of light armor
1792 --- 2208 --- 340 // Weapon and one piece of light armor
1792 --- 3348 --- 344 // Weapon and two pieces of light armor
2473 --- 3348 --- 344 // Weapon and two pieces of light armor

2473 Spell Resist is the maximum for a guinea, so further increase the Spell Penetration does not make sense.

It works on live server, it works on the PTS

* hysterics * convulses *

Conclusions / Questions:
1) Features Spell Penetration depends on my own resistance? Why?
2) Why in the calculation of penetration, not taken into account the protection of the target? After all, if everything worked properly, we would have received 42% of the passive abilities of armor and 12% of the weapons, which in total would give a 54% penetration. Then, using appropriate formulas for calculating the target does not remain defenseless. Then the resistance at 2000, 54% penetration would be only 1080 This is much more logical than the one that showed exeperimental.
3) In accordance with the current mechanics equipping two-handed weapons of any kind (physical / magic / bow) with characteristic Sharpened we get Armor Penetration = 100 * x, where X is the number of indications in the tooltip of the weapon. Then why when equipping two swords with the bonus of 6% not I get 100 * (6 + 6), and
only 100 * (2.5 + 2.5)?

P.S. How much of the employee (employees) should be fazed by what they do, if they have done this?

Turelus

I had a thread in the Alliance War section talking about this here.
Thanks for a breakdown of some more numbers.

Attorneyatlawl

Yea, this was known back in beta... surprised they never fixed 2h-weap sharpened though, I just assumed they had and never tried re-testing it on live. The bug with the multiplication has been here for a very, very long time now.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I had been told by someone testing back then who had bug-reported it, I hadn't personally done the original testing on the Psijic server.

Sai87RU

It's not just multiplying by sharpened. Why penetration depends on my own resistance?

Attorneyatlawl

Sai87RU wrote: »

It's not just multiplying by sharpened. Why penetration depends on my own resistance?

Yeah, that part is news to me.

Liquid_Time

*Heavy Breathing*

MeowGinger

Thank you for posting your research.

Atreyu

Can anyone sum it up? because I couldn't make a clear idea about what the *** is going on here.

Turelus

Atreyu wrote: »

Can anyone sum it up? because I couldn't make a clear idea about what the *** is going on here.

@Atreyu basically if you have Focus/Spell Penetration high enough it fully negates Spell Resistance.

Default penetration from light armour x7 and the Concentration passive skill is 43% and the soft-cap for Spell Resistance sits at around 30% hard-cap being 50%.
In most PVP cases a light armour user will always be hitting for max damage vs their target because many people don't boost SR to hard-cap.

Innkwell_ESO

So basically, outside of the math being broken and having the spell pen. mechanic scale stupidly high for no reason; spells are absurdly overpowered in comparison to weapon damage skills.
All while using only the ONE piece of light armor necessary to achieve the spell pen required to reduce resist to nothing.
Sadly this is just the cherry on top for magika/magic dmg based builds.

Comaetilico

Innkwell_ESO wrote: »

So basically, outside of the math being broken and having the spell pen. mechanic scale stupidly high for no reason; spells are absurdly overpowered in comparison to weapon damage skills.
All while using only the ONE piece of light armor necessary to achieve the spell pen required to reduce resist to nothing.
Sadly this is just the cherry on top for magika/magic dmg based builds.

no... you really didn't understood what the author explained...

I'll sum it up by point to make it more clear:

1) spell penetration (and we can assume but should also be tested... armor penetration) scale based on the user resist so the more you have the more you ignore

2) the sharpened trait totally boost your penetration by an absurd value... and this work on both resist penetration and armor...

3) you can easily acquire resist/armor penetration in pretty good amount (for resist the passive from light armor for armor there are quite a few skill that gives that or you can use set that gives that... or the weapon enchant that gives it....)

4) anyone with a some decent armor/resist penetration and a sharpened weapon can totally bypass the opponent armor/resist

5) precise on one handed weapon gives a reduced return compared to 2 handed weapon... still pretty high due to the wrong math but lessen that what you would expect from the math itself...

Innkwell_ESO

Actually, CPT. ARROGANT...I understood it completely, I summarized the part about resist and excluded the 2 hand/sharpen traits because my added point was that w/ traited light armor you can reach the spell cap pen w/ one piece of armor and one crafted item.
YOU DON'T NEED 3348 spell pen to do the same damage, you only NEED the one armor piece and the traits. sharpened IS broken but you only use it if you don't have those values elsewhere.
His information is on spell resist being involved in calculations and sharpened traits are correct and valuable, BUT my point was a caveat on the issues of unnecessary overcharging.
I'm sorry if you thought my post was uneducated because i was short and to the point. I was trying to make the base points about how to get there easily, regardless of his notes on sharpened/etc.

Thanks for trying to be a condescending clown about it though...

Attorneyatlawl

Innkwell_ESO wrote: »

Actually, CPT. ARROGANT...I understood it completely,
Thanks for trying to be a condescending clown about it though...

Wow, you're welcome.... he was completely polite about it and being helpful, you on the other hand ...

Obscure

...holy ***...

That's just... what the... OK, time the *** out!

Am I to understand that player SR is being used to determine bypassing target SR due to some terrible idea to consolidate it into the "Focus" rating?

What the actual ***!? Someone tell me I'm reading this wrong...

Cody

Thank you for doing this(and don't worry about your English. A lot of peoples native language is English and they can't type it very well at all. im one of them:))
math is one of my downsides, so i had to look at this a few times over. correct me if im wrong here:
so the amount of someone's spell resistance you penetrate, is based on your own resistance?
so if someone has 2000 spell resistance, that means they penetrate around 2000 spell resistance?

Sai87RU

Obscure wrote: »

...holy ***...

That's just... what the... OK, time the *** out!

Am I to understand that player SR is being used to determine bypassing target SR due to some terrible idea to consolidate it into the "Focus" rating?

What the actual ***!? Someone tell me I'm reading this wrong...

Currently, penetration is a static value for the character, formed from its own resistance.

If you look under the spoiler, you will find there's addon code with the line:
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow (missingParameter, STAT_SPELL_PENETRATION, STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_IDLE)
This line is responsible for the mapping of such a property as spell penetration
API calls this parameter Focus Rating.
This parameter must be a percentage value. Because passive abilities / weapons trait give percentages bonuses.
But it is a constant, and is formed from the passive skills percent, from their own resistance, and multiplied by Sharpened

NookyZooky wrote: »

Thank you for doing this(and don't worry about your English. A lot of peoples native language is English and they can't type it very well at all. im one of them:))
math is one of my downsides, so i had to look at this a few times over. correct me if im wrong here:
so the amount of someone's spell resistance you penetrate, is based on your own resistance?
so if someone has 2000 spell resistance, that means they penetrate around 2000 spell resistance?

If you have 2000 spell resistance, x7 light armor and staff 12% Sharpened then you pierces 11280 spell resistance

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Sai87RU wrote: »

If you have 2000 spell resistance, x7 light armor and staff 12% Sharpened then you pierces 11280 spell resistance

The agree vote was from me.

Spell resists means nothing in Cyrodiil atm. For example only last night killed the EP Empress twice solo, and on the third time, she decided to speed hack and jump 300 metres away from me when started taking another beating. (was DK so no BE)

FYI I use DW with 2 gold spell penetration traits, both weapons on disease debuff (heheh), 5LA 2MA (for STA regen and cost reductions on dodging) and potion after the initial attack (Toppling Charge) to give me another 300 penetration and more spell power.

Obscure

Sai87RU wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

...holy ***...

That's just... what the... OK, time the *** out!

Am I to understand that player SR is being used to determine bypassing target SR due to some terrible idea to consolidate it into the "Focus" rating?

What the actual ***!? Someone tell me I'm reading this wrong...

Currently, penetration is a static value for the character, formed from its own resistance.

If you look under the spoiler, you will find there's addon code with the line:
ZO_Stats.AddStatRow (missingParameter, STAT_SPELL_PENETRATION, STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_IDLE)
This line is responsible for the mapping of such a property as spell penetration
API calls this parameter Focus Rating.
This parameter must be a percentage value. Because passive abilities / weapons trait give percentages bonuses.
But it is a constant, and is formed from the passive skills percent, from their own resistance, and multiplied by Sharpened

NookyZooky wrote: »

Thank you for doing this(and don't worry about your English. A lot of peoples native language is English and they can't type it very well at all. im one of them:))
math is one of my downsides, so i had to look at this a few times over. correct me if im wrong here:
so the amount of someone's spell resistance you penetrate, is based on your own resistance?
so if someone has 2000 spell resistance, that means they penetrate around 2000 spell resistance?

If you have 2000 spell resistance, x7 light armor and staff 12% Sharpened then you pierces 11280 spell resistance

...so I did read it wrong. It's worse than I understood it to be.

forthewinn2

Everyone here is getting confused.
Your spell penetration wont increase with your own spell resistance.
The reason the focus rating is increasing with your spell resistance is because of the addon you are using and nothing more.
The way the addon works is it shows how much spell penetration you would have if you were to attack a person with the same spell resistance as you. The reason the character screen focus rating is increasing with your own spell resistance is because of the light armor passive ignore 42% of enemy spell resistance, now spell penetration isnt actually affected by your own spell resistance, the character screen is just giving you an idea how much spell penetration you would have, should you happen to fight an exact clone of yourself.......

The real issue here is the fact that the weapon trait sharpened is stacking with the light armor passive (which ignore's a percent of enemy spell resistance) and causing unintended amounts of spell penetration, in an effect I like to call "Mystical spell penetration from nowhere ".
Now the two should stack, but not nearly as high as they currently are.
The armor penetration side of the sharpened trait is however not stacking in this way and actually works properly (hence it would be appreciated if the devs would refrain from breaking the sharpened trait entirely when they inevitably fix this issue).

To reinforce my point, here are some test results, ignore the equal signs:
(LA ignore SR%) (sharpened%) (own SR) (Focus rating)
=====42===========0=======1320=======654
=====42===========0=======2183======1016
=====42===========0=======2434======1122
=====42===========0=======2853======1298
======0==========12=======1320======1200
======0==========12=======2434======1200
======0==========12=======2853======1200
=====42==========12=======1320======7848 =====42==========12=======2183=====12192
=====42==========12=======2434=====13464
=====42==========12=======2853=====15576


Now I'm not the best at math here, but last time I checked 1298+1200 didn't equal 15576.......

killedbyping

Who cares if it is not equal to 15576, if table is atleast somewhat correct, it means that having just a normal spell resistance (not even wearing light armor) is enought to completely negate enemy spell resistance if you take into account that he cant have more then 2500 SP.

forthewinn2

@killedbyping I think you may have misread my post, I said your own spell resistance doesn't affect your spell penetration, also if you weren't wearing light armor, you wouldn't gain the 42% ignore enemy spell resistance passive,
hence you would only have a focus rating(spell penetration) of 1200.

The math part at the end of my post is actually a joke, referring to the current bugged nature of spell resistance. My table is actually correct(no math errors).

killedbyping

forthewinn2 wrote: »

@killedbyping I think you may have misread my post, I said your own spell resistance doesn't affect your spell penetration, also if you weren't wearing light armor, you wouldn't gain the 42% ignore enemy spell resistance passive,
hence you would only have a focus rating(spell penetration) of 1200.

The math part at the end of my post is actually a joke, referring to the current bugged nature of spell resistance. My table is actually correct(no math errors).

So it means that having atleast 1 light armor piece or even just a sharpened trait are still enougth ?

forthewinn2

killedbyping wrote: »

So it means that having atleast 1 light armor piece or even just a sharpened trait are still enougth ?

It essentially means you would need 1 piece of light armor and a sharpened weapon(purple quality weapon)

McDonuts

Sai87RU wrote: »

3) In accordance with the current mechanics equipping two-handed weapons of any kind (physical / magic / bow) with characteristic Sharpened we get Armor Penetration = 100 * x, where X is the number of indications in the tooltip of the weapon. Then why when equipping two swords with the bonus of 6% not I get 100 * (6 + 6), and
only 100 * (2.5 + 2.5)?

Possibly from this passive erroneously overriding the trait? http://esohead.com/skills/30893-twin-blade-and-blunt.

Sai87RU

McDonuts wrote: »

Sai87RU wrote: »

3) In accordance with the current mechanics equipping two-handed weapons of any kind (physical / magic / bow) with characteristic Sharpened we get Armor Penetration = 100 * x, where X is the number of indications in the tooltip of the weapon. Then why when equipping two swords with the bonus of 6% not I get 100 * (6 + 6), and
only 100 * (2.5 + 2.5)?

Possibly from this passive erroneously overriding the trait? http://esohead.com/skills/30893-twin-blade-and-blunt.

Looks like it .... (not tested)
Error on the error and the error whipping

forthewinn2

Just tested dual wielding with two white quality swords (3% sharpened each), and I'm getting the blade and blunt passive damage and the 6% armor penetration.

Cogo

@Sai87RU

Thanks for this post! I always wondered why I take so heavy damage on spells even though I have high spell resist.

Anyone know if its meant to be this way or?

forthewinn2

@Cogo read my post (the really long one), it explains that what's occuring is a bug.
However even if this bug were fixed the 42%ignore spell resistance passive would still be incredibly strong.

It's almost not even worth having the bug fixed as even with the mechanic working, you could ignore more than 2000 spell resistance by combining the 42% passive with a sharpened weapon(as it is currently you can ignore all spell resistance).

Cogo

Ah, so its not working as intended?

Good then. Then Zenimax will fix. If they know about it?

forthewinn2

The only real way to 'fix' it is to make the light armor passive override the sharpened weapon trait (so you only get the benefit of one spell resistance reduction).
Otherwise they could remove the light armor passive entirely, but I doubt anyone is in favor of that option.

Sasky

forthewinn2 wrote: »

The only real way to 'fix' it is to make the light armor passive override the sharpened weapon trait (so you only get the benefit of one spell resistance reduction).
Otherwise they could remove the light armor passive entirely, but I doubt anyone is in favor of that option.

Simply put, they need to revisit their formula.

• 42% spell penetration should be 3.5 times as effective as 12% spell penetration and it should always depend on opponent's SR
• Offensive percentages should be subject to diminishing returns as well. Either put an explicit soft cap or just multiply individual items together (Two 50% reductions would become a 75% reduction instead of a 100% reduction)
• Currently, defense stats are subject to the softcap first. The penetration should be applied before the defensive softcap.