Lore discussion

BBSooner

Dekkameron wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Lots of stuff

Did Tiber Septim even bother trying to settle things in diplomatic way before threatening and charging in though?

Nope...

This is why the warmonger deserves no respect or worship from anyone.

Oh and don't forget his armies massacred civilians as well (namely Khajiit and Dunmer) as well as murdering and betraying his own King just to steal the crown for himself.

All 3 factions within ESO are guilty of murdering civilians, using underhanded cloak and dagger assassination, atrocities against the people they are at war against, etc and yet people rally to their cause. They find meaning in their cause, and people follow not only willingly but all can see how the leaders have the capabilities of being great rulers should any of them win. Septim is no different - except for the fact that he did win. All characters within TES are capable of mistakes, and heavy handed tactics to win a war. However, that's the world of TES. There are no clean hands within the lore, so based on how his legacy carried Tamriel as a whole I'd say he deserves the respect more than most - if not all - of the other characters within the lore.

dodgehopper_ESO

Dekkameron wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Lots of stuff

Did Tiber Septim even bother trying to settle things in diplomatic way before threatening and charging in though?

Nope...

This is why the warmonger deserves no respect or worship from anyone.

Oh and don't forget his armies massacred civilians as well (namely Khajiit and Dunmer) as well as murdering and betraying his own King just to steal the crown for himself.

Well, no one is really worshipping here (I think?). At any regard, how do you know that diplomatic means were not attempted? How do we not know if Ayrenn, Emeric, and Jorunn have not also opened diplomatic channels? How do we know if those diplomatic channels have not also been messed up by Molag Bal? Mehrunes Dagon? Boethiah? Mephala? Hermaeus Mora? (I know of examples of all of them meddling in this storyline).

The point is, I think its really hard to say that diplomatic attempts were not tried. In fact I would argue that it is preposterous to think that they would not have been. He might have ran headlong into some regions and not others in fact, because of certain diplomatic actions. As far as I know there really isn't the lore there to back your case, and I think its left murky on purpose. I'd also mention it is conveniently murky because it is easier to leave things mysterious than write 1000's of pages of novels to support all that's being suggested here.

Eirikur

No use arguing with a pacifist. Bless conquerors for the creative destruction they cause, for making the world more a more interesting place, and for the tremendous positive effects of their empires and legacies.

Lord_Hev

Eirikur wrote: »

I haven't completed the main campaign yet, but I wonder if Mannimarco in ESO is the "King of Worms" whom we interact with in Daggerfall. I think so, though that means we won't defeat him in ESO.

It is him, and he in-fact "partially" succeeds. No matter what you decide for his fate at the end of the MQ. He escapes. He becomes the perfect Lich. Then Vanus Galerion defeats him a bit later... Then he still survives, because he is the perfect God-Lich.


And then he warps his existence and splits himself in two by the end of TES Daggerfall.


And then appears in Oblivion as a mortal AND a God(The Necromancer's Moon - Shade of Revenant.)

Dekkameron

I'd like to add my hatred of Tiber Septim are semi-roleplaying based. As a hardcore Altmer supremacist roleplayer hehe

How dare the pitiful man proclaim himself greater than we the offspring of Auri-El!

Carnagan

Dekkameron wrote: »

Did Tiber Septim even bother trying to settle things in diplomatic way before threatening and charging in though?

Nope...

Actually...
From The Pocket Guide to The Empire, 1st Edition - Cyrodiil Entry
"This young myth is perhaps inspired by Talos' reputation for shrewd diplomacy, attested by even his greatest critics, which permitted him to scheme and bargain his way into the capital city - which he lacked the armies or funds to conquer by dint of force."

The guide was published after Septim had conquered Hammerfell but before he had taken any non-human provinces. This was written in the margins of the guide by an Altmer who was trying to convince the Thalmor that Septim was a threat to them.

Dyabolikal

Can I ask is there a lore reason for the blades (Dragonguard) not getting mentioned or the reason their weapons of choice have not been talked about. I dont see why a faction like them would not get included in ESO.

Eirikur

Dyabolikal wrote: »

Can I ask is there a lore reason for the blades (Dragonguard) not getting mentioned or the reason their weapons of choice have not been talked about. I dont see why a faction like them would not get included in ESO.

The Blades were founded by Tiber Septim in the 3rd era, but he hasn't been born yet when ESO takes place, in the 2nd era. I don't know about the Dragonguard though.

EDIT: Checked the Wiki. During the Second Era and the Interregnum, they played a minor role, mainly finding and protecting Dragonborn through Tamriel, acting in the shadows and concealed in their fortresses.

Dyabolikal

I understand that they were not formed until the third by name but they existed as the dragonguard from the first era and they performed their roles as the protector of the emperor (dragonborn) in the second era. Heck I would even go as far to say the the dragonknight is based of the blades heritage so why no love in eso.

Eirikur

Dyabolikal wrote: »

I understand that they were not formed until the third by name but they existed as the dragonguard from the first era and they performed their roles as the protector of the emperor (dragonborn) in the second era. Heck I would even go as far to say the the dragonknight is based of the blades heritage so why no love in eso.

That they "played a minor role", "acted in the shadows", and were "concealed in their fortresses" during the 2nd era probably explains it.

AlexDougherty

Dyabolikal wrote: »

Can I ask is there a lore reason for the blades (Dragonguard) not getting mentioned or the reason their weapons of choice have not been talked about. I dont see why a faction like them would not get included in ESO.

They aren't the blades yet, that took Tiber Septim, nor are they integral to the politics of Tamriel at this point in History, they are just another order with an interesting history.

As for their swords, well no reason against them, nor I have to say any overriding reason for them either.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Eirikur wrote: »

No use arguing with a pacifist. Bless conquerors for the creative destruction they cause, for making the world more a more interesting place, and for the tremendous positive effects of their empires and legacies.

like genocide, lots and lots of genocide. Up to and including wiping out an entire race of people See aborigines, there are no 100% aboriginal people left in australia, they were all *** and murdered out of existence, the last man's *** was used as a tobacco pouch actually. Fun fact of the day.

History is kind to the victors, but let's be mindful that they are often villains themselves.

And prosperity and peace is relative to your social status and wealth anyway.

Dekkameron

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Dyabolikal wrote: »

Can I ask is there a lore reason for the blades (Dragonguard) not getting mentioned or the reason their weapons of choice have not been talked about. I dont see why a faction like them would not get included in ESO.

They aren't the blades yet, that took Tiber Septim, nor are they integral to the politics of Tamriel at this point in History, they are just another order with an interesting history.

As for their swords, well no reason against them, nor I have to say any overriding reason for them either.

The fighters guild seem to have armour in a style not unlike the blades

Eirikur

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Eirikur wrote: »

No use arguing with a pacifist. Bless conquerors for the creative destruction they cause, for making the world more a more interesting place, and for the tremendous positive effects of their empires and legacies.

like genocide, lots and lots of genocide. Up to and including wiping out an entire race of people See aborigines, there are no 100% aboriginal people left in australia, they were all *** and murdered out of existence, the last man's *** was used as a tobacco pouch actually. Fun fact of the day.

History is kind to the victors, but let's be mindful that they are often villains themselves.

And prosperity and peace is relative to your social status and wealth anyway.

I agree that there's 'villains' on both sides in every conflict. Imagine where we'd be today without ever having 'thinned the herd' though. We're vastly overpopulated as it is, and resources are becoming increasingly scarce. Humanity, and the planet in general, might be better off as a whole if a plague killed off 75% of us. I'll leave it at that, since this is just pure speculation and not relevant to TES lore.

Enodoc

Dekkameron wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Dyabolikal wrote: »

Can I ask is there a lore reason for the blades (Dragonguard) not getting mentioned or the reason their weapons of choice have not been talked about. I dont see why a faction like them would not get included in ESO.

They aren't the blades yet, that took Tiber Septim, nor are they integral to the politics of Tamriel at this point in History, they are just another order with an interesting history.

As for their swords, well no reason against them, nor I have to say any overriding reason for them either.

The fighters guild seem to have armour in a style not unlike the blades

Yes indeed, which I think is great, as both have their origins in Akaviri warriors. The Fighters Guild was originally the Syffim, which was formed by the first Akaviri potentate, and became the Fighters Guild with the Guild Act in 2E 321. Since we are only 260 years since the Guild Act, their armour clearly retains the original Akaviri style. Unfortunately it seems this is diluted severely over the years to the end of the third era.

AlexDougherty

Enodoc wrote: »

Dekkameron wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Dyabolikal wrote: »

Can I ask is there a lore reason for the blades (Dragonguard) not getting mentioned or the reason their weapons of choice have not been talked about. I dont see why a faction like them would not get included in ESO.

They aren't the blades yet, that took Tiber Septim, nor are they integral to the politics of Tamriel at this point in History, they are just another order with an interesting history.

As for their swords, well no reason against them, nor I have to say any overriding reason for them either.

The fighters guild seem to have armour in a style not unlike the blades

Yes indeed, which I think is great, as both have their origins in Akaviri warriors. The Fighters Guild was originally the Syffim, which was formed by the first Akaviri potentate, and became the Fighters Guild with the Guild Act in 2E 321. Since we are only 260 years since the Guild Act, their armour clearly retains the original Akaviri style. Unfortunately it seems this is diluted severely over the years to the end of the third era.

Well by the third Era the members of the fighter's guild are supplying their own gear. So they are going to loose their Akaviri style.

I like the Akaviri Armour, but then I like quite a few Armour styles, especially the Skyrim Ebony Armour (but not the Oblivion Ebony Armour).