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Lore discussion
Boom34
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Ok i know ESO takes place 1000 or so years before the events of Skyrim, but i am wondering since in Skyrim there are 9 divines and in ESO there are 8, whats the story behind the ninth divine-when did he/she become divine and why, and who was it
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?
2
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Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talos, a man who became a god (to man, not always believed by mer).
Even in Skyrim, the Aldmeri Dominion was still trying to debunk Talos.Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »Talos, a man who became a god (to man, not always believed by mer).
Even in Skyrim, the Aldmeri Dominion was still trying to debunk Talos.
More specifically, Talos was Tiber Septim, who is going to be the next emperor to truly lay claim to the Ruby Throne. He's a dragonborn, and he eventually ascends to godhood (depending on who you ask).----
Murray?1 -
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »Talos, a man who became a god (to man, not always believed by mer).
Even in Skyrim, the Aldmeri Dominion was still trying to debunk Talos.
More specifically, Talos was Tiber Septim, who is going to be the next emperor to truly lay claim to the Ruby Throne. He's a dragonborn, and he eventually ascends to godhood (depending on who you ask).
Makes you wonder if, after the events of Skyrim, it our character seen as being Talos Reborn to wreak havoc on the Aldmeri Dominion?
Cause I know sure as snot I killed every Thalmor I could. And I wasn't even a Nord!
Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.2 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Though Talos is synonymous with Tiber Septim to the populous of Tamriel, there is precedent that Talos (the God) is the result of 3 men merging as they each Mantled a different aspect of Lorkhan (which is the Deity that Talos took the place of) through their ties as all being "Shezarrine" - the 3 men being Hjati Early-Beard (Tiber Septim), Zurin Arctus and Ysmir Wulfharth (who either share the title of Underking or is a single being that eventually contained both souls).
I personally lean towards the Tiber Septim (and only TS) = Talos since he achieved CHIM, but the other theory has footing.
Either way, Tiber Septim's absence from Sovngarde is another piece of evidence of Tiber Septim's godhood in some form.Edited by BBSooner on July 31, 2014 3:13AM6 -
Eirikur✭✭✭I haven't completed the main campaign yet, but I wonder if Mannimarco in ESO is the "King of Worms" whom we interact with in Daggerfall. I think so, though that means we won't defeat him in ESO.
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Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
Edited by Dekkameron on July 31, 2014 8:24AM- Veteran Combat Librarian -2 -
Eirikur✭✭✭Dekkameron wrote: »The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
Many of the greatest men of history have been 'warmongers' and 'murderers' though. Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great are probably most renowned. It makes sense that highly influental and charismatic conquerors are the ones to be deified, as those are the kind of men who are most admired, feared and respected.2 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭Dekkameron wrote: »The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
Many of the greatest men of history have been 'warmongers' and 'murderers' though. Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great are probably most renowned. It makes sense that highly influental and charismatic conquerors are the ones to be deified, as those are the kind of men who are most admired, feared and respected.
Only if they win, otherwise they're no different than a certain charlie chaplin lookalike who was another who wanted to unite the world under one flag...Edited by Dekkameron on July 31, 2014 9:02AM- Veteran Combat Librarian -3 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talos is a God, no matter what the Altmer say. Anyone who became the Divine Crusader knows this.
Tiber Septim's race is unknown even though he was born in High Rock and raised in Skyrim.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_SeptimEdited by SFBryan18 on July 31, 2014 9:43AM2 -
Eirikur✭✭✭Dekkameron wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
Many of the greatest men of history have been 'warmongers' and 'murderers' though. Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great are probably most renowned. It makes sense that highly influental and charismatic conquerors are the ones to be deified, as those are the kind of men who are most admired, feared and respected.
Only if they win, otherwise they're no different than a certain charlie chaplin lookalike who was another who wanted to unite the world under one flag...
Yeah there's actually many similarities. In any case, if we ask random people in the street to name someone who lived roughly 2000 years ago they're likely to name Julius Caesar (although he's a bit older than than), but if humanity is still around in year 4000 and people are asked the same question, I think they're likely to only know ***'s name from this period. That's how enormously influential conquerors are. Of course the ones who are defeated are unlikely to be deified, though.Edited by Eirikur on July 31, 2014 9:30AM1 -
Carnagan✭✭✭I haven't completed the main campaign yet, but I wonder if Mannimarco in ESO is the "King of Worms" whom we interact with in Daggerfall. I think so, though that means we won't defeat him in ESO.
It seems pretty clear that this Mannimarco and that Mannimarco are the same, especially when you look at the events of Oblivion. I heard a cool theory recently that the Dragonbreak at the end of Daggerfall resulted in Mannimarco becoming a god as he planned, but also not ascending, since the break caused all possible outcomes to occur.
There's a long time between ESO and Daggerfall, so it isn't hard to imagine Mannimarco escaping or Molag Bal deciding that he would make a better pawn in some other aeons long plot and just let him go/let him think he's escaped."You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
Proud explorer of Tamriel since 19960 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭
You do get an option to set free Mannimarco if you choose at the end of the main story.
It's rather obviously a dubious decision. but you can do it.
Even if we didn't set him free. Molag Bals domain is hardly secure is it? i mean we've seen for ourselves the ropey security.Edited by Dekkameron on July 31, 2014 12:51PM- Veteran Combat Librarian -0 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dekkameron wrote: »The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
"Crack a few eggs to make an omelette". Forging an empire that all provinces kneel to is bound to be a bloody business, however the prosperity of all the provinces during the Septim dynasty is greater than any other period of time.
Given the decades of warring of the Interregnum I'd be less inclined to condemn a single warlord who finally puts an end to all the warring and collects Tamriel under a single banner.Edited by BBSooner on July 31, 2014 1:47PM5 -
Whisper292✭✭✭All that ^^, but to answer another part of your question, Talos/Tiber Septim isn't born yet. ESO takes place in 2E 582. Talos isn't born until 2E 827 (if my math is correct).---
Love all, trust few, do wrong to no one. - William Shakespeare0 -
Eirikur✭✭✭The Dawnguard is supposed to be active in the Rift at the time of ESO right? They were established in this era (the 2nd), and Fort Dawnguard was built then. I don't know which year though.Edited by Eirikur on July 31, 2014 2:23PM0
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Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭Dekkameron wrote: »The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
"Crack a few eggs to make an omelette". Forging an empire that all provinces kneel to is bound to be a bloody business, however the prosperity of all the provinces during the Septim dynasty is greater than any other period of time.
Given the decades of warring of the Interregnum I'd be less inclined to condemn a single warlord who finally puts an end to all the warring and collects Tamriel under a single banner.
That can only be said in hindsight though. The fact stands he's no better than the famous Charlie Chaplin impersonator or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
- Veteran Combat Librarian -1 -
Whisper292✭✭✭Dekkameron wrote: »
That can only be said in hindsight though. The fact stands he's no better than the famous Charlie Chaplin impersonator or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
To quote the legendary Malcolm Reynolds: "It's my estimation that... every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of sum***** or another."---
Love all, trust few, do wrong to no one. - William Shakespeare1 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭Whisper292 wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »
That can only be said in hindsight though. The fact stands he's no better than the famous Charlie Chaplin impersonator or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
To quote the legendary Malcolm Reynolds: "It's my estimation that... every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of sum***** or another."
" He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and he gave him what for.
Our love for him now, ain't hard to explain,
The hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne! "
hehe- Veteran Combat Librarian -2 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dekkameron wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
"Crack a few eggs to make an omelette". Forging an empire that all provinces kneel to is bound to be a bloody business, however the prosperity of all the provinces during the Septim dynasty is greater than any other period of time.
Given the decades of warring of the Interregnum I'd be less inclined to condemn a single warlord who finally puts an end to all the warring and collects Tamriel under a single banner.
That can only be said in hindsight though. The fact stands he's no better than the famous Charlie Chaplin impersonator or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
I'd say that's more opinion than fact. The winner writes history - true - but the fact of the time period is he forged an empire on ground wet with decades of blood from all the provinces - with the goal of ending the warring and uniting Tamriel. His conquering army could never kill as many people as had died to the interregnum wars, and likely saved Tamriel from decades of more strife.
It could also be argued that had it not been for the hubris and petty unwillingness to end their plays for power the leaders hit hardest by the unification could have saved their people many lives. Vivec came out with a very favorable peace treaty with TS without more than a few skirmishes, it was the mongering and petty kings who refused to let go of the possibility of power increases during the interregnum that doomed their soldiers.Edited by BBSooner on July 31, 2014 3:15PM1 -
Auric_ESO✭✭✭✭Dekkameron wrote: »Whisper292 wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »
That can only be said in hindsight though. The fact stands he's no better than the famous Charlie Chaplin impersonator or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
To quote the legendary Malcolm Reynolds: "It's my estimation that... every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of sum***** or another."
" He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and he gave him what for.
Our love for him now, ain't hard to explain,
The hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne! "
hehe
That's one of thier funniest episodes. I kept laughing when they all kept looking at Jayne. Then his statue. Then Jayne. Holding in the laughter"The purpose of training is to tighten up the slack, toughen the body, and polish the spirit." Morihei Ueshiba0 -
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dekkameron wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
"Crack a few eggs to make an omelette". Forging an empire that all provinces kneel to is bound to be a bloody business, however the prosperity of all the provinces during the Septim dynasty is greater than any other period of time.
Given the decades of warring of the Interregnum I'd be less inclined to condemn a single warlord who finally puts an end to all the warring and collects Tamriel under a single banner.
That can only be said in hindsight though. The fact stands he's no better than the famous Charlie Chaplin impersonator or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
I'd say that's more opinion than fact. The winner writes history - true - but the fact of the time period is he forged an empire on ground wet with decades of blood from all the provinces - with the goal of ending the warring and uniting Tamriel. His conquering army could never kill as many people as had died to the interregnum wars, and likely saved Tamriel from decades of more strife.
It could also be argued that had it not been for the hubris and petty unwillingness to end their plays for power the leaders hit hardest by the unification could have saved their people many lives. Vivec came out with a very favorable peace treaty with TS without more than a few skirmishes, it was the mongering and petty kings who refused to let go of the possibility of power increases during the interregnum that doomed their soldiers.
In some ways, especially where history is concerned, the end justify the means. Create a lasting legacy which instills peace (albeit by force) for centuries, and you may find yourself deified in those centuries.
One of the reasons I love ESO. They do a good job addressing the real issues with history and lore, how they are written by the victor and subject to interpretation or changing with the times. Even simply going from Morrowind to Oblivion and then to Skyrim, and reading books about the deeds you had done in the centuries before, you could see how the truth got all screwed up.
Even eyewitnesses, if you somehow get people who don't lie, exaggerate or aren't complete idiots, can give you different versions of the exact same event. Look up how people report accidents that just happened. Two cars collide, and eyewitnesses are asked what happened. They all give different views and accounts, sometimes messing up the color of the cars or who was driving what.
Memory in and of itself is so malleable and subject to 'improvisation', without the person consciously knowing, that it can rarely be trusted further than what your name is.Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.3 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »The thought of Tiber Septim possibly becoming one of the divines sickens me.
The (Breton) man was Tamriel's histories greatest warmonger and murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if he has killed more than all of the Daedric princes combined.
"Crack a few eggs to make an omelette". Forging an empire that all provinces kneel to is bound to be a bloody business, however the prosperity of all the provinces during the Septim dynasty is greater than any other period of time.
Given the decades of warring of the Interregnum I'd be less inclined to condemn a single warlord who finally puts an end to all the warring and collects Tamriel under a single banner.
That can only be said in hindsight though. The fact stands he's no better than the famous Charlie Chaplin impersonator or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
I'd say that's more opinion than fact. The winner writes history - true - but the fact of the time period is he forged an empire on ground wet with decades of blood from all the provinces - with the goal of ending the warring and uniting Tamriel. His conquering army could never kill as many people as had died to the interregnum wars, and likely saved Tamriel from decades of more strife.
It could also be argued that had it not been for the hubris and petty unwillingness to end their plays for power the leaders hit hardest by the unification could have saved their people many lives. Vivec came out with a very favorable peace treaty with TS without more than a few skirmishes, it was the mongering and petty kings who refused to let go of the possibility of power increases during the interregnum that doomed their soldiers.
In some ways, especially where history is concerned, the end justify the means. Create a lasting legacy which instills peace (albeit by force) for centuries, and you may find yourself deified in those centuries.
One of the reasons I love ESO. They do a good job addressing the real issues with history and lore, how they are written by the victor and subject to interpretation or changing with the times. Even simply going from Morrowind to Oblivion and then to Skyrim, and reading books about the deeds you had done in the centuries before, you could see how the truth got all screwed up.
Even eyewitnesses, if you somehow get people who don't lie, exaggerate or aren't complete idiots, can give you different versions of the exact same event. Look up how people report accidents that just happened. Two cars collide, and eyewitnesses are asked what happened. They all give different views and accounts, sometimes messing up the color of the cars or who was driving what.
Memory in and of itself is so malleable and subject to 'improvisation', without the person consciously knowing, that it can rarely be trusted further than what your name is.
Agreed! ESO's npcs even give us recounts (even beating us over the head with repeated dialogue) about events that happened just 2 cities over that we helped shape. It's a great thing
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UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
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We gotta go to the crappy town where I'm a hero!Dekkameron wrote: »Whisper292 wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »
That can only be said in hindsight though. The fact stands he's no better than the famous Charlie Chaplin impersonator or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
To quote the legendary Malcolm Reynolds: "It's my estimation that... every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of sum***** or another."
" He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and he gave him what for.
Our love for him now, ain't hard to explain,
The hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne! "
hehe
That's one of thier funniest episodes. I kept laughing when they all kept looking at Jayne. Then his statue. Then Jayne. Holding in the laughter
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp0 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭Vivec came out with a very favorable peace treaty with TS without more than a few skirmishes, it was the mongering and petty kings who refused to let go of the possibility of power increases during the interregnum that doomed their soldiers.
Mournhold was completely destroyed by his Imperial forces, i'd say that was more than a skirmish.
The only reason they got favourable terms was because of Vivec the pretend self proclaimed god handing over the Numidium to use as a weapon against the Summerset Isles (which he knew he could not hope to defeat).
Don't forget btw, that practically all of Tiber Septims actions were guided by the Underking Wulfharth with a sense of revenge and hatred.- Veteran Combat Librarian -0 -
That is the thing though...when looking back at history...you see the outcomes, sometimes see the actions leading to the outcomes. You almost never see or know the motives behind the actions leading to the outcomes.
So people that are complete horrid folks, that did things for horrid reasons...with time and distance can seem great for the outcome (like a time of peace.) If they are very successful then they are able to control the information and get rid of most of what makes them look bad.
It is difficult for historians to really confirm motive especially when it is personal.0 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »That is the thing though...when looking back at history...you see the outcomes, sometimes see the actions leading to the outcomes. You almost never see or know the motives behind the actions leading to the outcomes.
So people that are complete horrid folks, that did things for horrid reasons...with time and distance can seem great for the outcome (like a time of peace.) If they are very successful then they are able to control the information and get rid of most of what makes them look bad.
It is difficult for historians to really confirm motive especially when it is personal.
Absolutely. It's this why I don't think Septim can be condemned for uniting the empire. Given the opportunity I doubt any of the current Alliance leaders, or future leaders, would have done much different if given the opportunity to end the war and claim the throne. We feel attached to them because our characters directly interact with them, but given the chance to end the bloodshed for their people and establish an empire it's hard to say.
We can, however, look at what he did with the empire. He didn't enslave any races, or place any province under direct control of the empire. He didn't outlaw the worship of any non-daedra. He established law, and allowed each province to continue to live individually instead of redrawing provincial lines. He allowed leaders to continue leading their people, and he re-lit the Dragonfires (cementing his rule as divinely accepted - as opposed to Varen Aquilarius' attempt) to further bolster the barrier and protect his citizens.
He killed a lot of people to unite the empire. Absolutely. That's what it took to force all the provinces in to peace, though.Edited by BBSooner on July 31, 2014 11:10PM2 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭Lots of stuff
Did Tiber Septim even bother trying to settle things in diplomatic way before threatening and charging in though?
Nope...
This is why the warmonger deserves no respect or worship from anyone.
Oh and don't forget his armies massacred civilians as well (namely Khajiit and Dunmer) as well as murdering and betraying his own King just to steal the crown for himself.
Edited by Dekkameron on July 31, 2014 11:26PM- Veteran Combat Librarian -0 -
Pendrillion✭✭✭✭And he really tried to institutionalise and juidicalise all forms of power. Even though the guilds are older than the 3rd Empire. I guess to manage the empire through such means enabled a lasting peace. Although... Not all of his successors stuck to his plans.
I guess only Uriel Septim VII. Tried to right the wrongs further. And if it weren't for Jagar Tharn, he might have been as Bloody as his ancestors. Being trapped in Oblivion probably shapes ones humility.
As for allowing the Provinces independence, hrrhm. Tiber Septim was probably too aware how thin stretched his own forces were. You can't police the whole of Tamriel with the remnants of the patched together forces you have left. War is costly. And he had to deal with much more than Hedge Knights.Edited by Pendrillion on July 31, 2014 11:30PM0 -
Dekkameron wrote: »Lots of stuff
Did Tiber Septim even bother trying to settle things in diplomatic way before threatening and charging in though?
Nope...
This is why the warmonger deserves no respect or worship from anyone.
Oh and don't forget his armies massacred civilians as well (namely Khajiit and Dunmer) as well as murdering and betraying his own King just to steal the crown for himself.
In "real" world, when a historian looks at a text or some written documentation they don't simply take it for granted. They will see who wrote the text and when. For whom did they write it. Did they have any motives to say one thing or another. Typically...diplomacy makes for poor story telling.
Even in this game, the way they have chosen to write and portray things...you have to do this with it here also. None of it is straight forward...none of it is exactly what it seems.
Did Septim do bad things? Absolutely. However not all men, mer or gods are just one thing. Some rule with loving care. Some rule with loving darkness, teaching their children hard taught lessons. They are complex and often confusing. They are not, thank oblivion, pale imitations of reality or one-sided characters.
One of the reasons he is such an interesting and emotionally provoking character is because his "good" has an equal foil. Did the end justify the means? Maybe. Maybe not.
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