Champion system, confused

DeLindsay

Kilara wrote: »

why is everyone assuming that the champion points can only be spend by lvl 50+?

the way I read it, it's totally open and could just as well mean that also lower-lvl alts can spend them, they just can't earn them...

The only assumption I draw to level 50's being the only Characters that can use the Champion points is because the system is replacing Veteran Ranks, which are level 50. If it does end up being similar to Rift's PA system, then level 50 also makes sense. I still hold to the belief that all Characters will earn the points at each XP threshold and that ALL level 50 Characters will be able to fully spend the total points the account has as they see fit, exactly like Rift's PA.

Srugzal

DeLindsay wrote: »

Um ok dude, you can stay confused and I will take it for how it reads exactly. To the OP, I guess you will have to make up your own mind since words directly from Paul Sage's mouth aren't good enough for some folks.

In spite of your insistence, the plain meaning is in fact ambiguous. It's not clear whether you have a pool of points available for each veteran ranked character or whether, as you contend, you have a pool of points instanced to every veteran ranked character, which is not the same thing at all. I agree with others who think it is a pool of points available to each character I think that is the most sensible interpretation. Reasonable people can disagree... we'll see in the long run. I imagine that they will clarify this sometime soon.

k9mouse

To me, this system sound very close to the "Planer Attunement levels (PA)" like RIFT has:

You can only spend them at level 50, but any char on the account at any level can earn them.

Once a player spend a point on a skill in the PA system, every char has that skill

I like the PA levels in RIFT (I played that MMO while waiting for ESO to come out and to learn about MMO games). If ESO follows the same pattern (more or less), it will be fun also.

Anastasia

Alphashado wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As far I understood you gain these points by doing average stuff in the gaming world. I assume quests, lore books maybe even pvp. Those points will actually be boosted if you didn't play for a while.

It could work like at Wows Beta, back then you had a 200% boost if you didn't play for a specific time, a 150% boost if you played an hour and a 100% boost (standard) if you played for a few.

Champion points gained will be added to your account and from this point on each of your Chars has access to them and could distribute them at level 50.

It works like at D3. You get 40 points and then each Char can decide in which perk these will go.

Yes and no. Each character will be able to spend the points individually. This is very clear to me anyways and it only seems outlandish if you assume it will be possible to earn 50+ points per character. If its more like 10 or 20, then it makes more sense.

Every character at lvl 50+ will be able to earn CP. You might be able to spend them at any lvl. This is unclear.

And they are earned via XP bench marks. They specifically use 100k XP as an example. The VR point system is being exchanged for regular xp like you earn from 1-50. So after lvl 50 you would get a point for every 100k XP.

When you are logged off for an extended period of time, your XP goes into bonus mode similar to a character in WoW being logged out inside an Inn for a while.

---

If ZOS has some specific reason they want to 'lessen' alt-itis, not block it, but make it less encouraged or somehow less valuable, then one might understand why they would put the Champion points available to each character on the account into effect.

On the surface this seems fun - that you would utilize your main to earn C. points, then get to use all of those individually on your alts across the account!

But, wow, if that is true, imagine how GodLike any/all of your characters will be after a few 'Seasons' of new gear and Champion points earned if/when you have more than one level 50 alt .

Many of us are definitely wanting more clarification on this question ^-^.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/profile/4/ZOS_JessicaFolsom*****

Alphashado

Kilara wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ok I did it for you so you don't have to be confused anymore. Paul Sage said, starting at 44:55, and I quote:

"These bonuses won't just apply to one Character, but the Champion points you earn you'll actually earn them for all your Characters. This is going to be an account wide system so once you earn Champion points you'll be able to spend them on all your Characters."

why is everyone assuming that the champion points can only be spend by lvl 50+?

the way I read it, it's totally open and could just as well mean that also lower-lvl alts can spend them, they just can't earn them...

Agreed. The only thing I've heard for certain is that you have to be 50+ to earn them.

phaneub17_ESO

So its Diablo 3 and the Paragon system.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Kilara wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ok I did it for you so you don't have to be confused anymore. Paul Sage said, starting at 44:55, and I quote:

"These bonuses won't just apply to one Character, but the Champion points you earn you'll actually earn them for all your Characters. This is going to be an account wide system so once you earn Champion points you'll be able to spend them on all your Characters."

why is everyone assuming that the champion points can only be spend by lvl 50+?

the way I read it, it's totally open and could just as well mean that also lower-lvl alts can spend them, they just can't earn them...

they said something in the video about it being 50+ iirc.

reften

my questions is - Once you have 1 VR12 character on your account...have you earned all possible champion pts?

DeLindsay

oren74 wrote: »

my questions is - Once you have 1 VR12 character on your account...have you earned all possible champion pts?

No, they said even before Quakecon (one of those Future of ESO panels) that all VR12's will receive 12 Champion points when the system switches over. What they didn't say is if that applies to ALL VR12's on one's account or just for one. I can only hope it's based on 1 CP per Veteran Rank per Character when the change hits. That way if a player has one of all 4 Classes to VR12 before the change, they would receive 48 CP to start with. This is the logical way to have it implemented, but we don't know yet.

After the change, and by the way the Quakecon video reads, it seems that there is no actual limit to CP earned. At the very least it seems to be a very high number that will take a very long time and a ton of playing to reach. The example he used shows an unlocked passive at 100 CP 'Counterstrike' and this is only for ONE of the 9 shown Constellations. They may launch with more or less than 9 Constellations and it may not actually take 100 CP to reach the final uber passive, only time will tell.

k9mouse

In what update will champion will be in? Sorry, I can not remember for sure. Just wondering how much time I have left to get to VR12?

reften

DeLindsay wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

my questions is - Once you have 1 VR12 character on your account...have you earned all possible champion pts?

No, they said even before Quakecon (one of those Future of ESO panels) that all VR12's will receive 12 Champion points when the system switches over. What they didn't say is if that applies to ALL VR12's on one's account or just for one. I can only hope it's based on 1 CP per Veteran Rank per Character when the change hits. That way if a player has one of all 4 Classes to VR12 before the change, they would receive 48 CP to start with. This is the logical way to have it implemented, but we don't know yet.

After the change, and by the way the Quakecon video reads, it seems that there is no actual limit to CP earned. At the very least it seems to be a very high number that will take a very long time and a ton of playing to reach. The example he used shows an unlocked passive at 100 CP 'Counterstrike' and this is only for ONE of the 9 shown Constellations. They may launch with more or less than 9 Constellations and it may not actually take 100 CP to reach the final uber passive, only time will tell.

HELL NO! If an account with 4VR12's gets 48 champion points vs. an account with 1 VR12 getting 12 champion points, I will rage quit.

I am not leveling 4 toons for VR12 to get to the true max level...

DeLindsay

oren74 wrote: »

HELL NO! If an account with 4VR12's gets 48 champion points vs. an account with 1 VR12 getting 12 champion points, I will rage quit.

I am not leveling 4 toons for VR12 to get to the true max level...

I'm not sure if you even read my comment and I'm 99% sure you haven't even bothered to watch the Quakecon video where Paul Sage talks about the Champion system. They have already said VR12's will get 12 CP to start with the day the system changes from VR to CP. Any player who has spent the past several months playing like crazy to get all 4 Classes to VR12 absolutely deserves more CP to start off with than a player who has 1 VR12. And if you're seriously gonna rage quit over 36 points, then maybe MMO's aren't for you. BTW, I have only a single VR toon and he's VR8 and I have no issue with someone getting 48 CP over my 8 CP if they have 4 VR12's and I still only have a single VR8 when it hits.

As Paul Sage and the system he presented eludes to there is likely to be many HUNDREDS of CP that will take players MONTHS to acquire to "max" it out. People need to understand the Champion system is replacing Veteran Ranks to be a lateral advancement instead of the current vertical advancement. It's sad that we live in this gaming society where people think they're automatically entitled to everything everyone else has/gets without doing the same work to get/earn it.

k9mouse wrote: »

In what update will champion will be in? Sorry, I can not remember for sure. Just wondering how much time I have left to get to VR12?

We have a while, I'm guessing 1-2 months at least. Keep in mind all of us here are just speculating on what's going to happen based on the Quakecon video and previous 'Future of ESO Panels'.

k9mouse

I do not see nothing wrong getting more points if one has VR levels. If one does the work needed to get a high level, why not keep the rewards of the said hard work when a new system takes over? In either system, a player "earn" the rewards of a high level -- why one has to start over just because a new system is starting up?

reften

DeLindsay wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

HELL NO! If an account with 4VR12's gets 48 champion points vs. an account with 1 VR12 getting 12 champion points, I will rage quit.

I am not leveling 4 toons for VR12 to get to the true max level...

I'm not sure if you even read my comment and I'm 99% sure you haven't even bothered to watch the Quakecon video where Paul Sage talks about the Champion system. They have already said VR12's will get 12 CP to start with the day the system changes from VR to CP. Any player who has spent the past several months playing like crazy to get all 4 Classes to VR12 absolutely deserves more CP to start off with than a player who has 1 VR12. And if you're seriously gonna rage quit over 36 points, then maybe MMO's aren't for you. BTW, I have only a single VR toon and he's VR8 and I have no issue with someone getting 48 CP over my 8 CP if they have 4 VR12's and I still only have a single VR8 when it hits.

As Paul Sage and the system he presented eludes to there is likely to be many HUNDREDS of CP that will take players MONTHS to acquire to "max" it out. People need to understand the Champion system is replacing Veteran Ranks to be a lateral advancement instead of the current vertical advancement. It's sad that we live in this gaming society where people think they're automatically entitled to everything everyone else has/gets without doing the same work to get/earn it.

k9mouse wrote: »

In what update will champion will be in? Sorry, I can not remember for sure. Just wondering how much time I have left to get to VR12?

We have a while, I'm guessing 1-2 months at least. Keep in mind all of us here are just speculating on what's going to happen based on the Quakecon video and previous 'Future of ESO Panels'.

The point is this. If there are 100 champion pts to acquire...and it is going to take YEARS to do, that's fine.

as long as I can do it with one character

But if I have to do exactly the same content four times, to level up my one character, then nope, sorry, flawed, goodbye.

DeLindsay

oren74 wrote: »

The point is this. If there are 100 champion pts to acquire...and it is going to take YEARS to do, that's fine.

as long as I can do it with one character

But if I have to do exactly the same content four times, to level up my one character, then nope, sorry, flawed, goodbye.

Then I take back that you didn't read my comment and point to more that you didn't fully read what we've all been discussing. Some of us take what Paul Sage said to mean that any Character on your account can earn CP (Champion Points) but only level 50 Characters on that account can spend them into the new Constellation passives.

I'm one of those who believe the system will mirror Rift's PA in that ALL Characters will be able to spend the points on the account in any way they see fit. I put an example on the first page but basically if your account has 50 CP then every single level 50 would get 50 CP to spend, all of them, not only a single one. If your account raised that to 60, then all level 50's would get 10 more points to spend.

There are a few who believe the opposite and think that the points are spent only once, no matter which Character they're spent on. This would be a horrible idea because it'd force players to choose only 1 Character of 8 to be "the best" and all 7 others would play second fiddle, at least until Character 1 maxed CP, then the player could start on Character 2, etc. It would literally takes multiple years that way and it's a ridiculous concept. There's no reason players should have to grind out all those CP over and over for every single Character they level, especially if there's going to be several hundred if not 1000 or more total points.

Azzuria

I watched the QuakeCon panel video last night and it was far from clear how the points would be distributed: pooled and spent as a finite sum or available in total for each toon individually.

To be perfectly honest, the Champion System is at least another update or two away so we have no less than 2 months for ZOS to clear this matter up.

Obscure

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ok I did it for you so you don't have to be confused anymore. Paul Sage said, starting at 44:55, and I quote:

"These bonuses won't just apply to one Character, but the Champion points you earn you'll actually earn them for all your Characters. This is going to be an account wide system so once you earn Champion points you'll be able to spend them on all your Characters."

Based on the first line of the quote, I now presume the system is character irrelevant. If you have 1 character or 8 these bonuses apply to all of them and are spent independent of them entirely. These are essentially account bonuses that effect the characters but aren't tied to the character in anyway. Delete a character and your bonuses are still on the account for the others. Same set of bonuses apply at all times for all characters.

Kilara wrote: »

why is everyone assuming that the champion points can only be spend by lvl 50+?

the way I read it, it's totally open and could just as well mean that also lower-lvl alts can spend them, they just can't earn them...

A fair observation. Presumably this system may actually effect non level 50 characters on the account just simply not allow them to earn more points. It is an account based system. Thus when you spend a champion point you are in effect spending it on all of your characters, since your spending it on the account not on any individual character.

reften

But the outstanding question is - Can one character acquire all possible champion points without having to use alts?

traigusb14_ESO2

oren74 wrote: »

But the outstanding question is - Can one character acquire all possible champion points without having to use alts?

Yes, because they are 1 for every X amount of XP.. so you can grind them forever. There isn't really a max either, because they have said they are thinking of having a repec for 1 point etc. I'm also sure they will add more things to spend them on forever and ever.. like EQ *** and equiv in other games.

Xexpo

DeLindsay wrote: »

... Any player who has spent the past several months playing like crazy to get all 4 Classes to VR12 absolutely deserves more CP to start off with than a player who has 1 VR12....

What if I have been playing just as "crazy", or crazier, on my one V12 ?
What if my play time far exceeds theirs? Because I chose to PvP and run Dungeons instead of grinding out 3 alts, I don't absolutely deserve it?

NewBlacksmurf

Kilara wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ok I did it for you so you don't have to be confused anymore. Paul Sage said, starting at 44:55, and I quote:

"These bonuses won't just apply to one Character, but the Champion points you earn you'll actually earn them for all your Characters. This is going to be an account wide system so once you earn Champion points you'll be able to spend them on all your Characters."

why is everyone assuming that the champion points can only be spend by lvl 50+?

the way I read it, it's totally open and could just as well mean that also lower-lvl alts can spend them, they just can't earn them...

Because Paule Sage said "characters above 50 on an account will also have access to the points earned by another character under the same account.

Obscure

kaer426 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

... Any player who has spent the past several months playing like crazy to get all 4 Classes to VR12 absolutely deserves more CP to start off with than a player who has 1 VR12....

What if I have been playing just as "crazy", or crazier, on my one V12 ?
What if my play time far exceeds theirs? Because I chose to PvP and run Dungeons instead of grinding out 3 alts, I don't absolutely deserve it?

Well they are XP based. Simple formula to determine how much those VR levels are worth in XP, then calculate from there how much each VR level would grant in Champion Points, and there you have it.

I mean if I'm going to be rolled back to level 50 from VR11 and given nothing in return I'm not only going to be a tad jaded over the new system, but I'm also going to be screwed since I've already done VR1-10 content. Where am I supposed to go to get XP? I already have the bulk of it.

Sallington

It sounds EXACTLY like Diablo 3.

You can only get champ points on lvl50+ toons, but can spend them on any lvl toon you have. I believe they also said that you can undo and reassign the points at will (maybe for a fee?).


It's not rocket surgery.

Natjur

As points is just a way to earn sometime with the exp you get past L50. I am a little worried we will see more Craglorn exp farms.

At the moment, lots of people farm exp from V1 to V12 in Craglorn and then at V12 they go off and do something else.

Now that there will be no veteran levels and instead you get a 'point' to spend every time you earn X exp after L50, will we see Craglorn just becoming huge exp farms again?

They said that most of the passives will not effect damage output so most of the passives you can get from the new 'point' system are not that useful. (increase changes to force a lock, less fall damage, more gold per mob, higher chance of items dropping)

Anastasia

oren74 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

HELL NO! If an account with 4VR12's gets 48 champion points vs. an account with 1 VR12 getting 12 champion points, I will rage quit.

I am not leveling 4 toons for VR12 to get to the true max level...

I'm not sure if you even read my comment and I'm 99% sure you haven't even bothered to watch the Quakecon video where Paul Sage talks about the Champion system. They have already said VR12's will get 12 CP to start with the day the system changes from VR to CP. Any player who has spent the past several months playing like crazy to get all 4 Classes to VR12 absolutely deserves more CP to start off with than a player who has 1 VR12. And if you're seriously gonna rage quit over 36 points, then maybe MMO's aren't for you. BTW, I have only a single VR toon and he's VR8 and I have no issue with someone getting 48 CP over my 8 CP if they have 4 VR12's and I still only have a single VR8 when it hits.

As Paul Sage and the system he presented eludes to there is likely to be many HUNDREDS of CP that will take players MONTHS to acquire to "max" it out. People need to understand the Champion system is replacing Veteran Ranks to be a lateral advancement instead of the current vertical advancement. It's sad that we live in this gaming society where people think they're automatically entitled to everything everyone else has/gets without doing the same work to get/earn it.

k9mouse wrote: »

In what update will champion will be in? Sorry, I can not remember for sure. Just wondering how much time I have left to get to VR12?

We have a while, I'm guessing 1-2 months at least. Keep in mind all of us here are just speculating on what's going to happen based on the Quakecon video and previous 'Future of ESO Panels'.

The point is this. If there are 100 champion pts to acquire...and it is going to take YEARS to do, that's fine.

as long as I can do it with one character

But if I have to do exactly the same content four times, to level up my one character, then nope, sorry, flawed, goodbye.

---

***Omfg. Pours a long tall one and takes a big ole' sip...***

Srugzal

I'd like to see an advancement system that does not reward grinders or exploiters--points that can't be gained by farming, but by accomplishing a broad range of things in the gameworld. Not that grinding is wrong per se, but that it's a lesser level of engagement with the game world and its systems.

I think there needs to be a way to distinguish, for instance, between those high ranked players who did the quests, explored the world, have genuinely mastered the mechanics of the game, and have made sizable contributions to PvP, or Trials, or Crafting, or whatever game disciplines they favor, and those who got their rank by rushing to Craglorn to farm.

I'm hoping that Champion Points (we're not going to call them "CP" are we? That verges on the creepy...) will turn out to encourage genuine engagement.

I'm aware that some will object strenuously to this, but, well, there you have it.

xKyrio

Srugzal wrote: »

I'd like to see an advancement system that does not reward grinders or exploiters--points that can't be gained by farming, but by accomplishing a broad range of things in the gameworld. Not that grinding is wrong per se, but that it's a lesser level of engagement with the game world and its systems.

I think there needs to be a way to distinguish, for instance, between those high ranked players who did the quests, explored the world, have genuinely mastered the mechanics of the game, and have made sizable contributions to PvP, or Trials, or Crafting, or whatever game disciplines they favor, and those who got their rank by rushing to Craglorn to farm.

I'm hoping that Champion Points (we're not going to call them "CP" are we? That verges on the creepy...) will turn out to encourage genuine engagement.

I'm aware that some will object strenuously to this, but, well, there you have it.

I would say achivements are perfect here, all thoose that you get for finishing dungeons, bosses, collecting skyshards etc, they point to the exploration you do.

Pretext

This helps insure no one will bother with PvP until after 50, that has to be bad. So little is being done to introduce Cyrodill at lower levels.

ArconSeptim

You people forgot about achievemnt points, there is no possible way that some person which grinded all 4 class to v12 to have same amount of achievemnt points on all those chars. Simple

leandro.800ub17_ESO

Speculation.
Something like 1 point for each VR level (experience to level up is gained same way), then 1 point for each 500 Achievement points
So if one char is VR14 with 10k Achievement Point it will have 34 Champions Points to spend.
Now depends on how many skills u can level up in the new champ system.