Athletics and Sneaking Tree's

moxiesauce

Dodging and cc break are very much a part of the game from lvl 1. why is it we have to level medium armor to max to improve on dodging, and still wear the medium armor. Last I checked dodging was used a lot for tanks in full heavy. Yeah, you can block the hit but sometimes it makes more sense to dodge away and take no dmg at all.
Sneaking is the same idea. The fact that it is limited to medium armor takes away from more in-depth character building. If they were their own tree's I don't think it would be mandatory to put points in them. I already don't in the medium armor tree while wearing full medium armor.

BBSooner

Yes for both

This could potentially be a good start for equalizing stamina and magicka. The armor sets could be homogenized for equal increases (only light would increase magicka and medium would increase stamina) and the actions like Sprint speed, sneak, spell concentration perhaps with a % chance to resist an interrupt, etc. could be added as 'general adventuring' trait lines under the guise of skills from previous TES (athletics, mobility, concentration, etc).

It's an interesting take for sure, one I'd favor over the current armor balance.

Gilvoth

other (comment)

i prefer that sneaking and all actions are removed from the use of stamina. OR that stamina gets a 200% increase for points put into it because we just dont have enough left in our pool as a stamina build to last long enough while blocking dodging and using most skills just to survive eats up all my stamina, and if i try to escape because im out of stamina then my sneak wont work! very frustrating to see my stamina gone and thet im knocked down when im 80% stamina built!

moxiesauce

Yes for both

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i prefer that sneaking and all actions are removed from the use of stamina. OR that stamina gets a 200% increase for points put into it because we just dont have enough left in our pool as a stamina build to last long enough while blocking dodging and using most skills just to survive eats up all my stamina, and if i try to escape because im out of stamina then my sneak wont work! very frustrating to see my stamina gone and thet im knocked down when im 80% stamina built!

I've also thought it would be a great idea to introduce endurance into the game, a separate resource that is used by dodging and cc break. This would leave plenty of room for sneaking for stamina. It hardly reduces while active and only reduces while moving. A balance for it maybe that sneaking drains both magicka and stamina.

Gilvoth

other (comment)

moxiesauce wrote: »

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i prefer that sneaking and all actions are removed from the use of stamina. OR that stamina gets a 200% increase for points put into it because we just dont have enough left in our pool as a stamina build to last long enough while blocking dodging and using most skills just to survive eats up all my stamina, and if i try to escape because im out of stamina then my sneak wont work! very frustrating to see my stamina gone and thet im knocked down when im 80% stamina built!

I've also thought it would be a great idea to introduce endurance into the game, a separate resource that is used by dodging and cc break. This would leave plenty of room for sneaking for stamina. It hardly reduces while active and only reduces while moving. A balance for it maybe that sneaking drains both magicka and stamina.

that is a very thoughtfull idea,i like your thoughts.
when we mount on our horse it has a small mini bar beneath our normal stamina bar ... so yes, this could easily be implimented and would definately make me

Nox_Aeterna

Yes only Sneaking

Sneaking would be nice.

Athletics ... too much , so i would rather not have that one.

Soloeus

Keep it the same

No.

Faster jumping/running means it would be near impossible to hit anyone with anything but lock-on's and aoe. It also means bunny-hopping where a player jumps, turns 180 degrees firing a spell or arrow, then turning back around to continue running and preparing the next jump.

Sneaking is already in the game. This wouldn't make the game better or more fun.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

Soloeus wrote: »

No.

Faster jumping/running means it would be near impossible to hit anyone with anything but lock-on's and aoe. It also means bunny-hopping where a player jumps, turns 180 degrees firing a spell or arrow, then turning back around to continue running and preparing the next jump.

Sneaking is already in the game. This wouldn't make the game better or more fun.

The passive's for the tree could vary, I didn't say anything about jumping, this isn't WoW. Simply a tree for reduced cost dodge/cc break would be nice. Other things could be added such as dmg increase on successful dodge or immunity to CC for 1 second on successful CC break to help eliminate the whole stunned til you're dead factor. This is suppose to be a TES game after all and all others had tree's for sneaking and athletics to help give more in-depth customization to players.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

i prefer that sneaking and all actions are removed from the use of stamina. OR that stamina gets a 200% increase for points put into it because we just dont have enough left in our pool as a stamina build to last long enough while blocking dodging and using most skills just to survive eats up all my stamina, and if i try to escape because im out of stamina then my sneak wont work! very frustrating to see my stamina gone and thet im knocked down when im 80% stamina built!

I've also thought it would be a great idea to introduce endurance into the game, a separate resource that is used by dodging and cc break. This would leave plenty of room for sneaking for stamina. It hardly reduces while active and only reduces while moving. A balance for it maybe that sneaking drains both magicka and stamina.

that is a very thoughtfull idea,i like your thoughts.
when we mount on our horse it has a small mini bar beneath our normal stamina bar ... so yes, this could easily be implimented and would definately make me

Also to have a skill line based on the new endurance resource could make for some interesting build choices, and not necessarily make them mandatory. More or less optional perks based on a players style of play.

babylon

other (comment)

Nope still a dumb idea and still do not want to have to put points into something that should come naturally to us.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

babylon wrote: »

Nope still a dumb idea and still do not want to have to put points into something that should come naturally to us.

Clearly don't understand it will come natural, exactly how it is right now even. Except it don't ruin stam builds. The only difference is you'll have better character customization, some minor perks for players that want sneaker or dodgy toons to better fit their play style.

*Also wont need to level medium armor to 50 for the perks, that your spending points in anyways.*

babylon

other (comment)

moxiesauce wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Nope still a dumb idea and still do not want to have to put points into something that should come naturally to us.

Clearly don't understand

See what you're asking is that people need to sacrifice points (maybe skillpoints, maybe the incoming champion points) to make them better at doing things everyone will want to do, which makes putting points into those trees mandatory. And this makes everyone equal once more, except everyone had to go putting points into something to get there, thanks to this stupid idea you have here. Note I am calling the idea stupid, not you.

Far better to have everyone equal without needing to waste points.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

babylon wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Nope still a dumb idea and still do not want to have to put points into something that should come naturally to us.

Clearly don't understand

See what you're asking is that people need to sacrifice points (maybe skillpoints, maybe the incoming champion points) to make them better at doing things everyone will want to do, which makes putting points into those trees mandatory. And this makes everyone equal once more, except everyone had to go putting points into something to get there, thanks to this stupid idea you have here.

Far better to have everyone equal without needing to waste points.

Please elaborate how it would be mandatory, the same skills are in the medium armor tree and I refuse to even put points in them, I don't want to play a stealthy character. It would be very simple to not make it mandatory. Clearly you came to ESO as a strict MMO player not a TES player. go back to wow

babylon

other (comment)

moxiesauce wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Nope still a dumb idea and still do not want to have to put points into something that should come naturally to us.

Clearly don't understand

See what you're asking is that people need to sacrifice points (maybe skillpoints, maybe the incoming champion points) to make them better at doing things everyone will want to do, which makes putting points into those trees mandatory. And this makes everyone equal once more, except everyone had to go putting points into something to get there, thanks to this stupid idea you have here.

Far better to have everyone equal without needing to waste points.

Please elaborate how it would be mandatory, the same skills are in the medium armor tree and I refuse to even put points in them, I don't want to play a stealthy character. It would be very simple to not make it mandatory. Clearly you came to ESO as a strict MMO player not a TES player. go back to wow

Simple, and I can't believe you still are not following - people will want to be equal in these things, thus it is mandatory. So to become equal everyone will need to waste points in these trees you have created out of the blue, where before we were already equal without spending points.

The "go back to wow" thing gets you reported btw

Karnus

other (comment)

I hadn't really thought about Sneaking Trees before but I guess it is a bit annoying how they only seem to grow when nobody is looking.

Enkil

I am hoping the thieves and dark brotherhood skills lines offer what you are looking for..

moxiesauce

Yes for both

babylon wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Nope still a dumb idea and still do not want to have to put points into something that should come naturally to us.

Clearly don't understand

See what you're asking is that people need to sacrifice points (maybe skillpoints, maybe the incoming champion points) to make them better at doing things everyone will want to do, which makes putting points into those trees mandatory. And this makes everyone equal once more, except everyone had to go putting points into something to get there, thanks to this stupid idea you have here.

Far better to have everyone equal without needing to waste points.

Please elaborate how it would be mandatory, the same skills are in the medium armor tree and I refuse to even put points in them, I don't want to play a stealthy character. It would be very simple to not make it mandatory. Clearly you came to ESO as a strict MMO player not a TES player. go back to wow

Simple, and I can't believe you still are not following - people will want to be equal in these things, thus it is mandatory. So to become equal everyone will need to waste points in these trees you have created out of the blue, where before we were already equal without spending points.

The "go back to wow" thing gets you reported btw

Ok? since when was balancing a game bad? Reguardless, you and I both have clearly made the point we probably wouldn't spend a couple skill points for a free dodge or something. Along with this a whole new system should be in place adding a new resource for dodging and CC break, adding more balance to the game. If wearing a dress holding a stick is your thing then by all means. But I for one hate the medium armor tree it has two crap skills in it that would better be suited under their own tree's like a traditional TES.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

Enkil wrote: »

I am hoping the thieves and dark brotherhood skills lines offer what you are looking for..

I really hope they do too, but the issue of stam builds sucking is an issue at large.

Knootewoot

Yes for both

I use dodge a lot as it helps me survive. but i always find myself without stamina so i cannot fight. I drink h/m/s potions so i have full again. but during the fight my adversarie can drink during fight, while i have to wait the cooldown.

babylon

other (comment)

moxiesauce wrote: »

adding a new resource for dodging and CC break

Instead they should make all skills use magicka instead of stamina, but that's something for another thread.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

babylon wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

adding a new resource for dodging and CC break

Instead they should make all skills use magicka instead of stamina, but that's something for another thread.

Why would cleaving consume magicka. I get where you are going with it, but the idea of using "endurance" as an energy type resource for dodging/ccbreak has been tried, tested, and works. It would ease up on the gimp that's on stamina. If all abilities consumed magicka there would be no use for any other type of enchants. It would eliminate stam builds all together, and ultimately ruin a huge part of customization. It's safe to say ZOS will never make all abilities cost magic. Just too cut and dry.

babylon

other (comment)

moxiesauce wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

adding a new resource for dodging and CC break

Instead they should make all skills use magicka instead of stamina, but that's something for another thread.

Why would cleaving consume magicka.

Oh I see - you want to put real world names on things.

Then why would anything use magicka...what even is magicka. Questions and mysteries.

If all skills used magicka then we'd have no problems building our hotbars for our most loved skills, instead of having to compromise and constantly vent on the forums about "stamina vs magicka builds". All the threads about this would go away, and we could all get on with playing.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

babylon wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

ehh, you can be all for dumbing down the game, but I like my MMO's complex where I need to pay attention to resources. Have tons of build options and neat perks to throw time into to achieve.

Far better to have tons of skill options, than to have tons of statting options that reduce the number of skills you can use.

Your line of thinking is actually the one that dumbs the game down, because players have to compromise their choices in skills. Ironic eh, but it's just what happens when you don't think things right through.

See this is why I think your trolling, "tons of skill options" umm hello? more trees??
Someone in another post suggested changing magicka to "power" and having all skills run off that, so same idea. But honestly, this game would just be turning more into modern wow. I miss the days in wow where I actually had to put thought into numbers. Now it's all handed over and completely tuned for casual players. Making people think about stats is not dumbing down the game, for the most part you can build w/e you want. It's a matter of how well it performs fails due to survivability issues or lack of dmg. both are from the main stamina skill line. I'm suggesting change in a way that makes the game more in-depth, your suggesting in a way that's dumbing it down. Yes, because thinking about stats are removed. There is no compromise, the numbers need tweaks.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

other (comment)

I would remove sneaking completely. It does not work well.

I mean bunch of guys on open plain hidden... Really?

I would prefer sneaking to work this way:
- If you sneak behind someone you will be hidden, but if target turn around and you are in line of sight, then you will be visible.
- If you hide in some bush or heavy shadow and target is looking your way, you will be transparent and alliance marker won't appear. If target move aim at you you will glow red and your alliance emblem will appear.

I would love to see sneaking working more realisticaly so gankers needs to use brain where to set up an ambush. Seriously popping out from narrow plain with no cover is stupid.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

I would remove sneaking completely. It does not work well.

I mean bunch of guys on open plain hidden... Really?

I would prefer sneaking to work this way:
- If you sneak behind someone you will be hidden, but if target turn around and you are in line of sight, then you will be visible.
- If you hide in some bush or heavy shadow and target is looking your way, you will be transparent and alliance marker won't appear. If target move aim at you you will glow red and your alliance emblem will appear.

I would love to see sneaking working more realisticaly so gankers needs to use brain where to set up an ambush. Seriously popping out from narrow plain with no cover is stupid.

It really does make it unrealistic, but I feel it would require a lot of rework to make it more realistic.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

other (comment)

Yup it would require a lot of work ror sure, but current system isn't good imho.

It happens on daily bases. You sneak around you keep under siege get on rocky hill to have better view and then discover enemy sneaking there.. That's like are you kidding me? I discover him only when I can slap him on his ass? On a rock during sunny day? At current state I would rather see invisibility skill from NBs or potions to hide you from enemies. :-)

Blooddancer

Yes for both

I agree that it would have to be carefully thought through, I dont think there is any need for a jump or uber run speed (mounts would be come useless without a revamp) skill but a separate pool for "physical" exertion makes sense. Of course a few extra skill points and a boost for already levelled toons would be nice too.

Just a point on realism, we are shooting fire and talking to the dead, realism has no place here hiding in plane sight is the least of the deal breakers - where did you find your keys the last time you spent 10 mins looking for them? I bet they didnt put a single point into their build to pull that one off.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

Blooddancer wrote: »

where did you find your keys the last time you spent 10 mins looking for them? I bet they didnt put a single point into their build to pull that one off.

That made me smile

DeLindsay

other (comment)

I'm on the fence because I agree (to some extent) with both sides. I'd love to see a new attribute called Endurance added where all defensive moves pulled from that instead of Stamina. At the same time I wouldn't want Sprint to remain with Stamina so players could run forever and ever, and I'm unsure as to whether I think Sneaking should be moved to Endurance also.

And absolutely NO to the above poster saying to remove Sneaking altogether. This is based on TES games where everyone could sneak around if they chose to.

moxiesauce

Yes for both

DeLindsay wrote: »

I'm on the fence because I agree (to some extent) with both sides. I'd love to see a new attribute called Endurance added where all defensive moves pulled from that instead of Stamina. At the same time I wouldn't want Sprint to remain with Stamina so players could run forever and ever, and I'm unsure as to whether I think Sneaking should be moved to Endurance also.

And absolutely NO to the above poster saying to remove Sneaking altogether. This is based on TES games where everyone could sneak around if they chose to.

I would assume the best system would be to keep block, sprint, sneak all on stamina since none of those abilities are actually used mid fight outside of block of course. That needs to stay stam for tanks, it makes the most sense. Maybe in the athletics tree give an ability that allows your magicka to consume part of what your stamina would have?

I don't think people running forever would be an issue, its considerably slower than a mount. Wouldn't effect PvP at all, and people that can't afford mount's would be happy since the price of mounts are crazy high.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

other (comment)

Well sneaking in TES games is not that OP like in ESO. Just recently I played skyrim and from the low levels of sneaking you are discovered from far away if enemy is looking at you.

My problem with sneaking is that it is not sneaking it is in fact invisibility...
Sneaking in TES works very differently than in ESO. Even your armor can give you away due to noise you are making...

It is not a deal breaker for me. I would only like to see more realism into this feature. Or lets say more TES sneaking touch... It would be more fun imho.