What do you think?

Blackwidow

This video encapsulates what I felt ESO should have been before I really knew anything about the game. I had envisioned what a TES MMO could be. This video sums up what I was envisioning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhL9ZN0ldKg&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzDNBXGWlyGOuIqyMcqYQ9VK%3Fautoplay%3D1

Every single thing in this video can be done in a MMO. There is nothing, technology wise, that could have stopped any of these concepts from being in ESO.

So, did ZOS get it all the concepts of TES that you wanted into your TES MMO?

Personally, when I started to play in beta, I saw the beautiful world, I saw we had 8 of the 9 races and a loosely designed class system and thought, this might just be what I had hoped for.

The first thing I did was run straight for the ocean. Ran down a peer and jumped... thud. I could not go under the water.

This actually shocked my system a little bit. This had to be some kind of bug, right? Nobody in their right mind would make a TES game and not allow you go go under the water. This was a staple of TES games. I'm not talking about WoW type of underwater, just your everyday TES underwater exploration. This put up a big red flag in my mind, but I moved on....

As days went by, I found more and more things that were not like a TES game.

The world was closed off by zones. I don't just mean there were zones, I mean each zone was closed off until you finished a major quest line. This was beyond unacceptable. We had a closed off world in a TES game. First time ever to happen in a TES game. Unacceptable.

ZOS got the message. They eventually opened the zones.

Then they made a huge mistake to try to fix the first mistake. They made what we now know as vet levels in the enemy zones. Most of us felt that this was a bad move at best. We repeat the same quests over and over. This was rushed with little thought about how this would affect us in the long run.

We should have been sent in the other zones as spies. We should have been given quests in surveillance, assassinations, espionage, etc.

Problem is, that would have taken a lot more work, so the quick fix would have to do. After we finished the main quest, they just sent us to do the quests our alts are doing already....?

Time and time again, I found things out about ESO that was lacking of a true TES game. It was a bland, everyday MMO with a TES paintjob.

No housing.
No law system.
No dueling.
No underwater swimming.
No true open world to explore.
The quest system was nothing like TES.

I was in beta, so I and many others SCREAMED for changes.

To be fair, ZOS scrambled to change ESO to be more like TES. But that was the problem, from then until now, it has all been scrambling on their part.

They did not really have a real TES game as their priority, from the start. The design was for DaoC, not a open world like we had come to love.

They did not start out to make a TES MMO. They made a cheap quick MMO that had TES on the cover of the box. I truly believe that the graphics, TES visual world and action based combat system is the only thing that has kept ESO alive. There is not much else that is true TES, IMHO.

That is not to say it is a bad game. It is not a bad game. Sadly, this could have been an EPIC game and fell short.

Thank you.

seanolan

I have to agree. As an MMO, ESO is good. As an Elder Scrolls game, it is less interesting, fun, or epic than Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim.

Shunravi

They are scrambling, aren't they? It has stuff that's good for an mmo, but not a TES title.

I'm still holding out on the 'feeling' that Cadwel's silver and gold are just temporary, and that they will soon add something in that will make it optional content for those who want it. Fingers crossed.

It certainly could have been an epic TES game, and it still can be. It is fun, but there is so much more it could be. So much more.

Mr.Turtlesworth

Well it's better than any damn alternative. This game puts WoW, Gw2, Tera, Neverwinter ect, to shame. People are too damn picky.

Blackwidow

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

People are too damn picky.

If you mean some of us have different standards, then I agree.

Mr.Turtlesworth

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

People are too damn picky.

If you mean some of us have different standards, then I agree.

Unrealistic standards for an mmo... This mmo goes above and beyond what I would have expected from ANY mmo.

Shunravi

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Well it's better than any damn alternative. This game puts WoW, Gw2, Tera, Neverwinter ect, to shame. People are too damn picky.

I certainly am picky. But with an IP like TES I feel like it is warranted. And why not? It's a legend of the single player geanre, we want it to be a legend of the mmo as well.

seanolan

As has been said, it is a GOOD MMO...it is not a GOOD ES game. You stating "The mmo goes above and beyond what I would have expected from ANY mmo" is in no way contradictory nor even in opposition to that. Don't argue when you aren't actually in disagreement.

Mr.Turtlesworth

seanolan wrote: »

As has been said, it is a GOOD MMO...it is not a GOOD ES game. You stating "The mmo goes above and beyond what I would have expected from ANY mmo" is in no way contradictory nor even in opposition to that. Don't argue when you aren't actually in disagreement.

It isn't suppose to be better than an ES game. That would be impossible for an mmo. I have always been an mmo player and never an ES fan. But this is my favorite mmo ever. Possibly favorite game ever.

Phantax

That video pretty much said it all for me !

VagabondAngel

Whatever...

I speak as someone who is an Elderscroller from Morrowind onwards and this is the first MMO that has ever held my attention, by the way. The only part of your OP I actually agree with is regarding the VR questing in enemy territory but ZOS have acknowledged our annoyance with that and I fully believe they will redress this at some point... in development, they did not have an unlimited amount of time so certain quick fixes were put in place, yes. I don't find this unforgiveable myself and ESO has kept me entertained via both PvE and PvP, every single day since release.

The fact I couldn't swim underwater did annoy me at first... for about 2 or 3 minutes... until I found something else to look at, fight with, harvest. Not to mention people I could help out, talk to, ask questions.... even attempt to kill when I got to level 10 (level 10 killing someone in PvP? Yeah right.) Well, no, in fact I died a lot... with a big ol' smile on my face. Brilliant!

Yeah, ESO could be so much more. And so it will. We've only got half the world so far. We don't even have Vvardenfell yet.... What we do have is awesome and what's more, we have a dev team that actually talk to us.

Yeah the future looks good to me. Thing is, so does the present. Maybe you should step out of the blight mist and see what this really is; living, breathing, unlimited potential.

Rosveen

I made my peace with this game. I agree with you, it was designed as an MMO with TES skin, not the other way around - and it certainly isn't what I expected from an Elder Scrolls MMO. Seriously, which dev came up with the idea of exlusive class skills? Shame on you. But what's done is done and with that in mind, I can sit and rage, and be disappointed forever or I can learn to appreciate it for what it is, flawed as it may be. I'd rather do the latter. I always have the single player games to fall back on, so now I'll wait and see what ESO grows into, without the hostility I once had for it. Even if it isn't a great TES game, it can still be a good MMO. I mean, look at your list:

Blackwidow wrote: »

No housing.
No law system.
No dueling.
No underwater swimming.
No true open world to explore.
The quest system was nothing like TES.

We already know two of these will come in the future. Two others can be implemented as well, should the devs want them. Overall game design can't be so easily changed, so the last two are a problem (though I'm not sure what you don't like about the quest system).

Shunravi

VagabondAngel wrote: »

Whatever...

I speak as someone who is an Elderscroller from Morrowind onwards and this is the first MMO that has ever held my attention, by the way. The only part of your OP I actually agree with is regarding the VR questing in enemy territory but ZOS have acknowledged our annoyance with that and I fully believe they will redress this at some point... in development, they did not have an unlimited amount of time so certain quick fixes were put in place, yes. I don't find this unforgiveable myself and ESO has kept me entertained via both PvE and PvP, every single day since release.

The fact I couldn't swim underwater did annoy me at first... for about 2 or 3 minutes... until I found something else to look at, fight with, harvest. Not to mention people I could help out, talk to, ask questions.... even attempt to kill when I got to level 10 (level 10 killing someone in PvP? Yeah right.) Well, no, in fact I died a lot... with a big ol' smile on my face. Brilliant!

Yeah, ESO could be so much more. And so it will. We've only got half the world so far. We don't even have Vvardenfell yet.... What we do have is awesome and what's more, we have a dev team that actually talk to us.

Yeah the future looks good to me. Thing is, so does the present. Maybe you should step out of the blight mist and see what this really is; living, breathing, unlimited potential.

That's the thing about MMOs, they are not a static release like a single player game. ESO will continue to grow and change. Simply because something was not there at release does not mean that it will never be there. Now if they could find a way to get the modding community involved somehow... (More than add-ons I mean)

VagabondAngel

Shunravi wrote: »

Now if they could find a way to get the modding community involved somehow... (More than add-ons I mean)

As a former modder (starting in MW), I think that would be awesome.

Audigy

I don't agree to be honest, at least with the most stuff.

I made 8 chars and none of them was made because of a class. The class system at ESO is pretty free, yes you pick one but it has no impact on your game at all.

Its like in the old ES games where you picked a sign or filled out a questionnaire . You get a few boni and a few abilities, but that's it. The main skill system is done through crafting, armor and weapons.

You also level up your skills while you play and not by ticking boxes like at WOW.

The world is also free, I never was told I cant go there or cant do this. Some caves and houses are closed, but so they were at ES games.

What was said about the VR system is not true at all.

I played ESO since they handed out keys and I remember how much people cried about "I want to play all with 1 Char" so ZO made that possible and now?

Now the same people complain that they don't want this? People need to make up their minds seriously.


Something they could had done better is the quest system based on your race. I don't notice any difference between my Breton and my Redguard. The main quest line should have been impacted by my Race and style, for instance I am a healer - so why do I need to fight? Sadly this was also messed up in the ES games... everyone expects you to be a fighter... just annoying.

That's where the companion system is key and Skyrim was wonderful because of that. Sadly its not a part of ESO

I also miss housing, to me it is not acceptable that its missing - its such an important part in any MMO and many ES games.

Thievery doesn't exist either, you cant break in and steal stuff - you can not rob other players or npcs - that's sad.

Someone should be able to rob a horse and face the consequences.



ESO is not the typical MMO, the guy in the video is wrong with that assumption. It might turn out to be one in future, especially if the crying continuous like with the VR system and the "more loot, more raids, Arena..." crowd.

But until then, ESO is an ES game which is played online - sadly its a bit crippled due the community of todays MMOs that cant accept that someone has something that they don't.

siledre

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a game company that will profit from us to give us a semi polished product with minimal bugs. as it is, game companies are scrambling to get it made and out the door as quickly as possible for the sake of money instead of for the sake of a customer base. I'm not saying this game did that, but you can usually tell when something has been rushed, I really like this game but it's still lacks that oomph that will take this from a game I like to a game I love.

Blackwidow

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

People are too damn picky.

If you mean some of us have different standards, then I agree.

Unrealistic standards for an mmo...

What was unrealistic?

Everything I listed can and has been done in other MMOs.

Fully open world.
Housing.
Law systems.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.

What part could not be done?

This mmo goes above and beyond what I would have expected from ANY mmo.

Like I said, different standards.

It isn't suppose to be better than an ES game. That would be impossible for an mmo. I have always been an mmo player and never an ES fan. But this is my favorite mmo ever. Possibly favorite game ever.

I was speaking from a TES point of view. This is not a bad MMO. It's not great either, IMHO.

It is a bad TES game.

Audigy

Fully open world.
Housing.
Law systems.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.

The world is open, I don't see where its not? You can go everywhere where you want, we don't have loading screens except those for entering a building or a cave, just like in any ES game.

Housing is as I said missing, so is the crime system.

Dueling? You mean brawling like in the Inns or with the companions? There are actually several quest´s that have a duel system.

I must say I would be very upset if every "fool" could challenge me. That would end up like at WOW and I don't want to play another WOW clone.

Blackwidow

Audigy wrote: »

I made 8 chars and none of them was made because of a class. The class system at ESO is pretty free, yes you pick one but it has no impact on your game at all.

Its like in the old ES games where you picked a sign or filled out a questionnaire . You get a few boni and a few abilities, but that's it. The main skill system is done through crafting, armor and weapons.

In all other TES games, you were never blocked from all the class skills on a character.

The world is also free, I never was told I cant go there or cant do this. Some caves and houses are closed, but so they were at ES games.

Make a character in Daggerfall and walk to Malabar Tor. See how far you get before you are stopped by the game.

What was said about the VR system is not true at all.

I played ESO since they handed out keys and I remember how much people cried about "I want to play all with 1 Char" so ZO made that possible and now?

Now the same people complain that they don't want this? People need to make up their minds seriously.

Make up their minds? Did you seriously just say that?

You get the difference between what everyone was asking for and what they delivered, right?

ESO is not the typical MMO

Most of it is very typical. The combat and class systems are better.

Rosveen

Audigy wrote: »

Fully open world.
Housing.
Law systems.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.

I must say I would be very upset if every "fool" could challenge me. That would end up like at WOW and I don't want to play another WOW clone.

*sigh*
WoW has swords. ESO has swords. Is ESO a WoW clone?

Implementing flags solves all our problems. Don't flag yourself for dueling, don't get challenged by randoms. Easy peasy.

Blackwidow

Audigy wrote: »

Fully open world.
Housing.
Law systems.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.

The world is open, I don't see where its not? You can go everywhere where you want, we don't have loading screens except those for entering a building or a cave, just like in any ES game.

Make a character in Daggerfall and walk to Malabar Tor. See how far you get before you are stopped by the game.

Dueling? You mean brawling like in the Inns or with the companions? There are actually several quest´s that have a duel system.

I must say I would be very upset if every "fool" could challenge me. That would end up like at WOW and I don't want to play another WOW clone.

Auto decline (on/off)

indytims_ESO

Housing is in the plan. So is the Law system.

I -would- very much like to have seen the underwater part of the game actually pursued. With how gorgeous this game is, I can only imagine how awesome the underwater part of the game -could- have been.

Obviously, there were certain TES mechanics that just don't translate into an MMO, and hopefully never will. I have no desire to enter a town, following a quest - only to find some moron has killed all the NPCs because 'it was the KEWL LULZ thing to do.'

I also have zero desire to enter a tavern - only to find it laden with 10000 potatoes, because - again - some lulz dude thought it would be 'kewl' to do.

'Freedom' to play how you want simply only goes so far before you start infringing on others. I think Zeni has done a pretty good job walking that line so far.

Blackwidow

Rosveen wrote: »

I made my peace with this game. I agree with you, it was designed as an MMO with TES skin, not the other way around - and it certainly isn't what I expected from an Elder Scrolls MMO. Seriously, which dev came up with the idea of exlusive class skills? Shame on you. But what's done is done and with that in mind, I can sit and rage, and be disappointed forever or I can learn to appreciate it for what it is, flawed as it may be. I'd rather do the latter. I always have the single player games to fall back on, so now I'll wait and see what ESO grows into, without the hostility I once had for it. Even if it isn't a great TES game, it can still be a good MMO.

I think it is a good MMO now. Not great, but good.

I'm not sure why some people see my OP as a bashing of ESO. It is just what I see as a lost opportunity to a great TES MMO.

I mean, look at your list:

Blackwidow wrote: »

No housing.
No law system.
No dueling.
No underwater swimming.
No true open world to explore.
The quest system was nothing like TES.

We already know two of these will come in the future. Two others can be implemented as well, should the devs want them. Overall game design can't be so easily changed, so the last two are a problem

/agree

(though I'm not sure what you don't like about the quest system).

Look at the video at 1:45 to see what I mean by TES questing.

I don't feel like I am exploring in ESO. I'm just being lead from quest to quest, zone to zone.

You know those "eyes" we see on the map that are supposed to be special areas? We don't even get a chance to find them. We are lead to them by a map icon. You would never see that in Skyrim.

Sure, a person might tell you of a cave or town, and mark it on your map, but all the really cool quests and fantastical areas you just come across by exploring, in a real TES game.

Nazon_Katts

It should have been a sandbox, but ended up as a themepark. For a themepark, it's rather entertaining, but by design no themepark will ever reach the depth of gameplay a sandbox can provide. More sandbox in my ESO, please.

Mr.Turtlesworth

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

People are too damn picky.

If you mean some of us have different standards, then I agree.

Unrealistic standards for an mmo...

What was unrealistic?

Everything I listed can and have been done in other MMOs.

Fully open world.
Housing.
Law systems.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.

What part could not be done?

This mmo goes above and beyond what I would have expected from ANY mmo.

Like I said, different standards.

It isn't suppose to be better than an ES game. That would be impossible for an mmo. I have always been an mmo player and never an ES fan. But this is my favorite mmo ever. Possibly favorite game ever.

I was speaking from a TES point of view. This is not a bad MMO. It's not great either, IMHO.

It is a bad TES game.

Yes those things could have been done. But this game would not have nearly as much attention to detail, immersive qualities, and most of all, it wouldn't have as good graphics. However, a dueling system is the only one I agree with. It should have been included in the first place.

Give the game time for god sake! It's been out for 3 months!!!

Blackwidow

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

People are too damn picky.

If you mean some of us have different standards, then I agree.

Unrealistic standards for an mmo...

What was unrealistic?

Everything I listed can and have been done in other MMOs.

Fully open world.
Housing.
Law systems.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.

What part could not be done?

This mmo goes above and beyond what I would have expected from ANY mmo.

Like I said, different standards.

It isn't suppose to be better than an ES game. That would be impossible for an mmo. I have always been an mmo player and never an ES fan. But this is my favorite mmo ever. Possibly favorite game ever.

I was speaking from a TES point of view. This is not a bad MMO. It's not great either, IMHO.

It is a bad TES game.

Yes those things could have been done. But this game would not have nearly as much attention to detail, immersive qualities, and most of all, it wouldn't have as good graphics.

What?

Please explain.

However, a dueling system is the only one I agree with. It should have been included in the first place.

/agree

Give the game time for god sake! It's been out for 3 months!!!

I'm not sure why my opinion offends you so.

I'm not saying ESO is a bad game.

You already said you were not a fan of TES, so maybe you can't see where I am coming from.

Nathano

Blackwidow wrote: »

This video encapsulates what I felt ESO should have been before I really knew anything about the game. I had envisioned what a TES MMO could be. This video sums up what I was envisioning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhL9ZN0ldKg&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzDNBXGWlyGOuIqyMcqYQ9VK%3Fautoplay%3D1

Almost everything they mention in that video is in the game.

Blackwidow wrote: »

The first thing I did was run straight for the ocean. Ran down a peer and jumped... thud. I could not go under the water.

This actually shocked my system a little bit. This had to be some kind of bug, right? Nobody in their right mind would make a TES game and not allow you go go under the water. This was a staple of TES games. I'm not talking about WoW type of underwater, just your everyday TES underwater exploration. This put up a big red flag in my mind, but I moved on....

I can't say I ever done any underwater exploring in any ES game. Pretty much any time I went in the water I would be attacked and killed by Slaughterfish, so I don't know where the desire for underwater exploring is coming from.

Blackwidow wrote: »

Then they made a huge mistake to try to fix the first mistake. They made what we now know as vet levels in the enemy zones. Most of us felt that this was a bad move at best. We repeat the same quests over and over. This was rushed with little thought about how this would affect us in the long run.

They have already explained they have made mistakes with the VR zone and are planning a big overhaul of it with "The Champion System".

Blackwidow wrote: »

The quest system was nothing like TES.

Can you explain this? From my point of view it is exactly like a TES game. They are voice acted, have great story and are picked up by exploring (not in quest hubs like other MMOs).

There are a lot of problems with the game but it is continuously being fixed and improved. I really don't understand people saying it doesn't feel like a TES game because if I picked up this game not knowing what it was, within a few seconds I would know I am playing and Elder Scrolls game.

Blackwidow

Nathano wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

This video encapsulates what I felt ESO should have been before I really knew anything about the game. I had envisioned what a TES MMO could be. This video sums up what I was envisioning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhL9ZN0ldKg&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzDNBXGWlyGOuIqyMcqYQ9VK%3Fautoplay%3D1

Almost everything they mention in that video is in the game.

Agree to disagree.

Blackwidow wrote: »

The quest system was nothing like TES.

Nathano wrote: »

Can you explain this? From my point of view it is exactly like a TES game. They are voice acted, have great story and are picked up by exploring (not in quest hubs like other MMOs).

There are a lot of problems with the game but it is continuously being fixed and improved. I really don't understand people saying it doesn't feel like a TES game because if I picked up this game not knowing what it was, within a few seconds I would know I am playing and Elder Scrolls game.

Look at the video at 1:45 to see what I mean by TES questing.

I don't feel like I am exploring in ESO. I'm just being lead from quest to quest, zone to zone.

You know those "eyes" we see on the map that are supposed to be special areas? We don't even get a chance to find them. We are lead to them by a map icon. You would never see that in Skyrim.

Sure, a person might tell you of a cave or town, and mark it on your map, but all the really cool quests and fantastical areas you just come across by exploring, in a real TES game.

Mr.Turtlesworth

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

People are too damn picky.

If you mean some of us have different standards, then I agree.

Unrealistic standards for an mmo...

What was unrealistic?

Everything I listed can and have been done in other MMOs.

Fully open world.
Housing.
Law systems.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.

What part could not be done?

This mmo goes above and beyond what I would have expected from ANY mmo.

Like I said, different standards.

It isn't suppose to be better than an ES game. That would be impossible for an mmo. I have always been an mmo player and never an ES fan. But this is my favorite mmo ever. Possibly favorite game ever.

I was speaking from a TES point of view. This is not a bad MMO. It's not great either, IMHO.

It is a bad TES game.

Yes those things could have been done. But this game would not have nearly as much attention to detail, immersive qualities, and most of all, it wouldn't have as good graphics.

What?

Please explain.

However, a dueling system is the only one I agree with. It should have been included in the first place.

/agree

Give the game time for god sake! It's been out for 3 months!!!

I'm not sure why my opinion offends you so.

I'm not saying ESO is a bad game.

You already said you were not a fan of TES, so maybe you can't see where I am coming from.

I'm just saying you can't expect an mmo to have everything and a bag of chips in the first months of it's release..

Blackwidow

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Mr.Turtlesworth wrote: »

People are too damn picky.

If you mean some of us have different standards, then I agree.

Unrealistic standards for an mmo...

What was unrealistic?

Everything I listed can and have been done in other MMOs.

Fully open world.
Housing.
Law systems.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.

What part could not be done?

This mmo goes above and beyond what I would have expected from ANY mmo.

Like I said, different standards.

It isn't suppose to be better than an ES game. That would be impossible for an mmo. I have always been an mmo player and never an ES fan. But this is my favorite mmo ever. Possibly favorite game ever.

I was speaking from a TES point of view. This is not a bad MMO. It's not great either, IMHO.

It is a bad TES game.

Yes those things could have been done. But this game would not have nearly as much attention to detail, immersive qualities, and most of all, it wouldn't have as good graphics.

What?

Please explain.

However, a dueling system is the only one I agree with. It should have been included in the first place.

/agree

Give the game time for god sake! It's been out for 3 months!!!

I'm not sure why my opinion offends you so.

I'm not saying ESO is a bad game.

You already said you were not a fan of TES, so maybe you can't see where I am coming from.

I'm just saying you can't expect an mmo to have everything and a bag of chips in the first months of it's release..

If that is what you think I was saying in my OP, then you did not get what I was saying at all.

Goibot

OP, you did a really good job with this post. If you don't mind let me add a bit to your list of:
No housing.
No law system.
No dueling.
No underwater swimming.
No true open world to explore.

---

A true classless system - All skill lines should be open to everyone
Thieves guild
Dark Brotherhood
House Carls - for most people this would of solved the VR level difficulty
Different mounts
Underwater quests

In my opinion this list should of been in the game prior to release.
It should be the priority to add to the game now. Instead they are going to implement the Champion system and dyes can't forget the dyes???

ZoS, please stop taking the easy way out. Implement this list and fix the problems existing in the game now before restructuring and making a new game.