Refund Materials For Sets (if they go live)

Draxys

If the current 1.3 set changes go live, please consider incorporating a way for me to get back the very large amount of gold/time/materials I just spent on getting together a legendary set of gear for PvE.

I think the new set changes are really great, let me make that clear- but it feels like a slap in the face. I have just put forth a lot of effort to make yellow Willow's Path and Twilight's Embrace gear, and if these changes go live, they will be useless to me.

Change is good, but when it drastically affects my game experience in a negative way, there needs to be some way to reconcile that. One person on Tamriel Foundry suggested a one time use method to get back ALL (not just one piece of upgrade material like from deconstruction) materials used to make a set of gear- I'd take that. Anything to get back the 63 yellow upgrade materials I had to acquire.

And as I'm sure there will be a naysayer telling me it's easier to get those mats than I think, no it isn't. It cost me a lot of gold and time farming to get them (from early access up until a week ago), and I would really like a way to get them back if this goes live. Please consider this issue ZOS.

Draxys

Apologies, I looked for a similar thread to avoid repetition, but apparently not hard enough, I see one now. Sorry for the repeat post.

Hotsauce

I think an easy option that would make people happy is keep the current sets as they are. The new proposed sets on PTS can be put in game as NEW sets- "Oak Trail" "Dawnbreaker's Embrace" Something new. Make the new sets more desirable so people will want to upgrade to them, but their current sets won't be completely changed and worthless.

Draxys

Hotsauce wrote: »

I think an easy option that would make people happy is keep the current sets as they are. The new proposed sets on PTS can be put in game as NEW sets- "Oak Trail" "Dawnbreaker's Embrace" Something new. Make the new sets more desirable so people will want to upgrade to them, but their current sets won't be completely changed and worthless.

Agreed, I would prefer that for sure, but it appears that they are intent on nerfing crit (at least a little bit- 10% worth) with this patch. As much as I'd like to keep my gear, I doubt they will keep the crit sets the way they are.

Rylana

There is a reason everyone was using the same two or three sets, they were horribly imbalanced and OP as hell compared to every other one, including nearly all of the drop/pvp acquired sets.

Sorry OP, but knowing full well this game was still well within a balancing phase with changes to classes and bonuses everywhere, no one should have used a single gold temper yet, they are just wasting them.

Kiljaz

Easy fix to this. Allow crafted sets pre v1.3 a one time morph to a new set.

Mojomonkeyman

Rylana wrote: »

There is a reason everyone was using the same two or three sets, they were horribly imbalanced and OP as hell compared to every other one, including nearly all of the drop/pvp acquired sets.

Sorry OP, but knowing full well this game was still well within a balancing phase with changes to classes and bonuses everywhere, no one should have used a single gold temper yet, they are just wasting them.

Seriously? People play at different pace. I am not allowed to finally invest into gear that I saved up for after 3 month and countless hours of playtime? I am playing no beta, game is released, I`d like to use the perks offered after going through all quests and arriving at final level.

It is not my responsibility that ZOS (or the closed beta testers) didn`t bother to compare efficiency of set bonuses and balance them accordingly. We are 3 months in. After a year of beta testing.

To suddenly decide to make all my efforts useless is a slap in the face. I.e.: During all my playtime, doing all the quests in the game plus hirelings I gathered 5 Kuta. I was so looking forward to the moment I reach v12 to optimize my gear.

I did so one week ago. How am I supposed to ever get 5 friggin Kutas again, when I have no intend to just walk through areas I have no business in (done all quests) just to farm stuff for countless hours? Again, after just arriving at v12 and eagerly awaiting that moment for 3 months of questing/pve.

I don`t play a job simulator where my main concern is to keep income high enough to be able to enjoy the content I originally wanted to play, nor a trading simulator - I play for pvp. I did about 200 hours of questing just to reach that point. No interest at all, to waste my precious spare time to run around gathering nodes, when all I want is doing pvp.

I accepted a new tier of gear at v10, when v12 was introduced, far too fast pace in my opinion. But I accepted it, didnt complain. But now, again, randomly they decide, Mojo, you are screwed. After I spent all my materials. Wow.

I think "play the way you want" applies for me as well, right?

Draxys

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

There is a reason everyone was using the same two or three sets, they were horribly imbalanced and OP as hell compared to every other one, including nearly all of the drop/pvp acquired sets.

Sorry OP, but knowing full well this game was still well within a balancing phase with changes to classes and bonuses everywhere, no one should have used a single gold temper yet, they are just wasting them.

Seriously? People play at different pace. I am not allowed to finally invest into gear that I saved up for after 3 month and countless hours of playtime? I am playing no beta, game is released, I`d like to use the perks offered after going through all quests and arriving at final level.

It is not my responsibility that ZOS (or the closed beta testers) didn`t bother to compare efficiency of set bonuses and balance them accordingly. We are 3 months in. After a year of beta testing.

To suddenly decide to make all my efforts useless is a slap in the face. I.e.: During all my playtime, doing all the quests in the game plus hirelings I gathered 5 Kuta. I was so looking forward to the moment I reach v12 to optimize my gear.

I did so one week ago. How am I supposed to ever get 5 friggin Kutas again, when I have no intend to just walk through areas I have no business in (done all quests) just to farm stuff for countless hours? Again, after just arriving at v12 and eagerly awaiting that moment for 3 months of questing/pve.

I don`t play a job simulator where my main concern is to keep income high enough to be able to enjoy the content I originally wanted to play, nor a trading simulator - I play for pvp. I did about 200 hours of questing just to reach that point. No interest at all, to waste my precious spare time to run around gathering nodes, when all I want is doing pvp.

I accepted a new tier of gear at v10, when v12 was introduced, far too fast pace in my opinion. But I accepted it, didnt complain. But now, again, randomly they decide, Mojo, you are screwed. After I spent all my materials. Wow.

I think "play the way you want" applies for me as well, right?

Agreed, the idea that I shouldn't have invested into my gear in a 3 month old live game because of the inevitability of balance is ludicrous. I knew balance was coming but I didn't know my magicka caster sets were going to be turned into freaking TANK sets. Really? I'm supposed to expect that @Rylana? Don't think so.

I will say again, I really like the changes to gear sets, all I want is way to get my materials back, or like @Kiljaz says a way to morph my existing sets to another.

NukeAllTheThings

The changes don't affect me much at all because I have not crafted legendary gear but I understand the problems that others have. Regardless of what you have crafted/bought, the changes will affect many people to varying degrees. I wish we could have a thread that doesn't flame where people would detail their costs in a constructive manner. Show the devs exactly how this will impact you in gold/mats and not just complain about the few points in crit you lose.


From the Road Ahead release:

"It’s important to note that from now on, whenever we introduce a major change to a skill line, we will be offering a free respec to players who have invested points in that line."

It has taken time, but they have now stated that they will refund points for respec, I have hopes that they will come up with a solution to compensate for the set changes as well. The set changes are pretty major for a lot of people and and the costs are significantly higher than a 10k-15k respec.

Influence decisions through data not surface complaints and threats.

Draxys

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

The changes don't affect me much at all because I have not crafted legendary gear but I understand the problems that others have. Regardless of what you have crafted/bought, the changes will affect many people to varying degrees. I wish we could have a thread that doesn't flame where people would detail their costs in a constructive manner. Show the devs exactly how this will impact you in gold/mats and not just complain about the few points in crit you lose.


From the Road Ahead release:

"It’s important to note that from now on, whenever we introduce a major change to a skill line, we will be offering a free respec to players who have invested points in that line."

It has taken time, but they have now stated that they will refund points for respec, I have hopes that they will come up with a solution to compensate for the set changes as well. The set changes are pretty major for a lot of people and and the costs are significantly higher than a 10k-15k respec.

Influence decisions through data not surface complaints and threats.

I didn't mean to sound like I was complaining and I certainly didn't threaten, I tried to make it more of a well written request while clearly mentioning that I am losing 63 gold upgrade mats (acquired through various means as I also stated). Actually, I calculated wrong and it's 72 but that's beside the point.

NukeAllTheThings

Draxys wrote: »

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

The changes don't affect me much at all because I have not crafted legendary gear but I understand the problems that others have. Regardless of what you have crafted/bought, the changes will affect many people to varying degrees. I wish we could have a thread that doesn't flame where people would detail their costs in a constructive manner. Show the devs exactly how this will impact you in gold/mats and not just complain about the few points in crit you lose.


From the Road Ahead release:

"It’s important to note that from now on, whenever we introduce a major change to a skill line, we will be offering a free respec to players who have invested points in that line."

It has taken time, but they have now stated that they will refund points for respec, I have hopes that they will come up with a solution to compensate for the set changes as well. The set changes are pretty major for a lot of people and and the costs are significantly higher than a 10k-15k respec.

Influence decisions through data not surface complaints and threats.

I didn't mean to sound like I was complaining and I certainly didn't threaten, I tried to make it more of a well written request while clearly mentioning that I am losing 63 gold upgrade mats (acquired through various means as I also stated). Actually, I calculated wrong and it's 72 but that's beside the point.

I didn't think you were complaining. It was stating in more general terms regarding other threads the devolved into pointless back and forth. I think your approach is good and I hope others follow. I apologize if it seemed like my post was directed at you.

Draxys

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

The changes don't affect me much at all because I have not crafted legendary gear but I understand the problems that others have. Regardless of what you have crafted/bought, the changes will affect many people to varying degrees. I wish we could have a thread that doesn't flame where people would detail their costs in a constructive manner. Show the devs exactly how this will impact you in gold/mats and not just complain about the few points in crit you lose.


From the Road Ahead release:

"It’s important to note that from now on, whenever we introduce a major change to a skill line, we will be offering a free respec to players who have invested points in that line."

It has taken time, but they have now stated that they will refund points for respec, I have hopes that they will come up with a solution to compensate for the set changes as well. The set changes are pretty major for a lot of people and and the costs are significantly higher than a 10k-15k respec.

Influence decisions through data not surface complaints and threats.

I didn't mean to sound like I was complaining and I certainly didn't threaten, I tried to make it more of a well written request while clearly mentioning that I am losing 63 gold upgrade mats (acquired through various means as I also stated). Actually, I calculated wrong and it's 72 but that's beside the point.

I didn't think you were complaining. It was stating in more general terms regarding other threads the devolved into pointless back and forth. I think your approach is good and I hope others follow. I apologize if it seemed like my post was directed at you.

No worries. There are actually a couple of other threads on this that do have some of the commenters keeping their heads on their shoulders, so hopefully ZOS will listen.

dcincali

You should not get anything for what you did with your gear. That was your choice and no one elses. If they decide to upgrade the old sets to the new ones, fine, if not, then make new ones. It's part of the ever evolving MMO.

Maverick827

dcincali wrote: »

You should not get anything for what you did with your gear. That was your choice and no one elses. If they decide to upgrade the old sets to the new ones, fine, if not, then make new ones. It's part of the ever evolving MMO.

I don't know of any MMO that's ever done something like this before.

timidobserver

Maverick827 wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

You should not get anything for what you did with your gear. That was your choice and no one elses. If they decide to upgrade the old sets to the new ones, fine, if not, then make new ones. It's part of the ever evolving MMO.

I don't know of any MMO that's ever done something like this before.

Most MMOs make a large portion of the game's gear completely obsolete/useless at one time or another

Attorneyatlawl

timidobserver wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

You should not get anything for what you did with your gear. That was your choice and no one elses. If they decide to upgrade the old sets to the new ones, fine, if not, then make new ones. It's part of the ever evolving MMO.

I don't know of any MMO that's ever done something like this before.

Most MMOs make a large portion of the game's gear completely obsolete/useless at one time or another

Not with a moderate content patch .

Hotsauce wrote: »

I think an easy option that would make people happy is keep the current sets as they are. The new proposed sets on PTS can be put in game as NEW sets- "Oak Trail" "Dawnbreaker's Embrace" Something new. Make the new sets more desirable so people will want to upgrade to them, but their current sets won't be completely changed and worthless.

That would make them completely worthless to me, at least, since I couldn't meld the pieces I'll want anyway and already had done, with the new ones. As someone with several hundred thousand gold in legendaries I sure wouldn't mind getting them back for free, since these are changes to existing items and not new items outclassing old ones like is normal for an mmo with an expansion or other similar major addition, but I'm fine either way (morph current items to the new ones as planned, or morph all existing ones to their defaults (green/blue/purple as originally found) and refund materials reverted that had been used to upgrade in a mail to the account when logging in for the first time with the new patch).

Maverick827

timidobserver wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

You should not get anything for what you did with your gear. That was your choice and no one elses. If they decide to upgrade the old sets to the new ones, fine, if not, then make new ones. It's part of the ever evolving MMO.

I don't know of any MMO that's ever done something like this before.

Most MMOs make a large portion of the game's gear completely obsolete/useless at one time or another

But not in this way.

Attorneyatlawl

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

The changes don't affect me much at all because I have not crafted legendary gear but I understand the problems that others have. Regardless of what you have crafted/bought, the changes will affect many people to varying degrees. I wish we could have a thread that doesn't flame where people would detail their costs in a constructive manner. Show the devs exactly how this will impact you in gold/mats and not just complain about the few points in crit you lose.


From the Road Ahead release:

"It’s important to note that from now on, whenever we introduce a major change to a skill line, we will be offering a free respec to players who have invested points in that line."

It has taken time, but they have now stated that they will refund points for respec, I have hopes that they will come up with a solution to compensate for the set changes as well. The set changes are pretty major for a lot of people and and the costs are significantly higher than a 10k-15k respec.

Influence decisions through data not surface complaints and threats.

That's actually a good point... personally I have around 16 (give or take one) legendary-upgraded items and a huge huge number of epics (probably 30 more past the legendaries), so for me that would be at minimum (since some of the legendaries dropped as blue or purple already)...

- 128 gold upgrades
- ~160 purple upgrades
- ~120 blue upgrades
- ~70-80 green upgrades (not so important)


Tally that up at an average of 3k a gold upgrade, 1k a purple, 300g a blue, and 50g a green, and that's not an insignificant sum of gold potentially lost (as a handful of pieces will be re-usable still) to this patch, in fact that comes to upwards of 588,000 gold in market value upgrades lost to the patch for me alone, which is many times a simple 20-25,000 gold respec cost.

After thinking of it in those terms, it would be nice if they could implement a way that reverted items to their original dropped-or-crafted state (color quality/rarity) and gave you back the upgrade materials used and the enchantments applied, for this patch cycle only or similar, so people could get their cash out of items that may be radically different due to 1.3. I normally wouldn't advocate this at all, but this is actually a moderate content patch and not a major new tier or retail expansion resulting in this huge shuffle of items, so it would be a good thing(tm) if they could do some sort of system like that...

Draxys

Maverick827 wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

You should not get anything for what you did with your gear. That was your choice and no one elses. If they decide to upgrade the old sets to the new ones, fine, if not, then make new ones. It's part of the ever evolving MMO.

I don't know of any MMO that's ever done something like this before.

Most MMOs make a large portion of the game's gear completely obsolete/useless at one time or another

But not in this way.

I think that's everyone's point with this issue. Most people like the changes but they aren't just progressing forward with the game and it's design, they are literally changing the game mechanics design of some of the items. That's not part of the ambiguous so-called "ever-evolving MMO."

Snit

MMO's rarely destroy gear players are already wearing, short of bug/ exploit issues.

timidobserver

Maverick827 wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

You should not get anything for what you did with your gear. That was your choice and no one elses. If they decide to upgrade the old sets to the new ones, fine, if not, then make new ones. It's part of the ever evolving MMO.

I don't know of any MMO that's ever done something like this before.

Most MMOs make a large portion of the game's gear completely obsolete/useless at one time or another

But not in this way.

They all have a unique way of going about it. However, your gear is still useless and obsolete regardless the approach. I think GW2 is the only game that hasn't done it, however even they did screw Celestial Asceneded gear wearers over by making a gear set that takes months to make useless.

timidobserver

Snit wrote: »

MMO's rarely destroy gear players are already wearing, short of bug/ exploit issues.

I guess they should leave it and just replace it with new gear so we can be like SWTOR and have noobs running in their battlemaster gear from 2 years ago confused about why everyone is pushing their face in.

Obus

One possible solution is to use the current legenday piece as reagent to update any purple piece to legenday (deconstructiing the old one, ofc).

Anyway after the change we will have a lot of useless legendary pieces on bank.

Origin

I hope nobody expected to craft one armor set and use it ever after, right?
And yeah, ZOS did a really good job with the new armor sets.

Maverick827

Origin wrote: »

I hope nobody expected to craft one armor set and use it ever after, right?

People expected to upgrade their armor with new content, like every other MMO, and not because the rug was pulled out beneath them by stat/set bonus changes.

Limitless

Threads like this are hilarious because in buying and paying for the game you agreed giving Zenimax the power to change anything to their liking.

Upgrading all of your items was something you did, don't act like it's the end of the world. Materials and crafting is noticeably cheaper than it used to be, and if you can't already craft your own sets after playing this game for 2 months then you've wasted your own time.

Don't blame the Devs, they don't owe you anything. It's a game, adapt and move on, or just unsub.

Maverick827

Limitless wrote: »

or just unsub.

This seems like something I'd want to avoid if I was running a game that was already struggling, especially when there are so many simple, no-downside solutions available.

Vuron

Draxys wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

You should not get anything for what you did with your gear. That was your choice and no one elses. If they decide to upgrade the old sets to the new ones, fine, if not, then make new ones. It's part of the ever evolving MMO.

I don't know of any MMO that's ever done something like this before.

Most MMOs make a large portion of the game's gear completely obsolete/useless at one time or another

But not in this way.

I think that's everyone's point with this issue. Most people like the changes but they aren't just progressing forward with the game and it's design, they are literally changing the game mechanics design of some of the items. That's not part of the ambiguous so-called "ever-evolving MMO."

I've had this happen more than once in an MMO. Everyone with crafted or upgraded dropped armor had to realize that the armor was going to become useless at some point. We've already had the level cap raised once, which caused the same complaints and some armor sets have already been changed.

They could throw people a bone and make it so that deconstructing give almost a 100% change of returning upgrade mats.

Hears_Bright_Colors

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I am playing no beta, game is released, I`d like to use the perks offered after going through all quests and arriving at final level.

It is not my responsibility that ZOS (or the closed beta testers) didn`t bother to compare efficiency of set bonuses and balance them accordingly. We are 3 months in. After a year of beta testing.

Beta testers/QA and the actual player base take different approaches to the game. Especially regarding balance, the second group is going to expose things that the first group "missed". When the new sets come out, I'd be cautious about spending too much upgrading those too. The fast-paced evolution is going to continue for awhile before it slows down. It's just the nature of a new MMO. "Release" does not mean final version. Sorry for your loss though.

Sunrock

No do not cater to all the cry babies in this thread. I want to make allot of gold on them in patch 1.3

LuxanQualta

Basic Fairness

Regardless of whether a player should or should not have invested in trying to make their character's fighting qualities the very best in the game, the fact is that a lot of folks have invested heavily in building sets and any change that significantly changes those sets should be accompanied with the option to either get a refund on all the mats invested or a morph to another set of the player's choosing. That is basic fairness to players that took the game seriously and were trying their best to make the most of the game.

Impact of Change

The consequences of the changes is not limited to high level players with gold level armors. It affects all players that have invested in sets that have changed and can be just as devastating. I am not a PvP player and I haven't invested in gold level outfits, but I have set up eight characters with all set armor. Replacing the armors for all eight characters is a significant undertaking.

I paid to play, not to have to spend countless hours foraging for mats and replacing my characters' armors in the event there was a significant change to the sets used in those armors. Similarly, I want to play the game and not experience a significant delay in resuming game play to acquire new mats to craft new sets.

Dubious Apologists and Red Herring Arguments

1. Whether or not changes to armors are common to MMO's in general is not particularly relevant to whether I had an expectation of stability in a game that has already been through a year of Beta testing and three months of production play. It is not unreasonable to expect that game studio will take steps to mitigate any harm to players when making a significant change, especially if they want to continue to earn revenue from subscriptions.

2. The should have know better stuff is ridiculous. Nobody can take these types of arguments seriously. It is absurd to suppose that every player in the game should have known that the value of any set could be compromised and therefore shouldn't have invested in making the best armor available.

3. I suppose if I had huge stocks of mats and wanted to make a killing on crafting new sets, I would want to make arguments for not giving a refund or alternative to those who have invested in sets. Likewise, if I was set to retool everything and have an advantage over other players I suppose I would want to keep that advantage. So I wonder what the motives are for folks that seem inclined to want to argue against making other players whole after a change nerfs their sets.

Way Ahead

1. Sure, the game was unbalanced and adjustments needed to be made. That is understandable. We have to applaud efforts to improve the game.

2. Yes, I can craft all new sets and have most of the mats I need, so I'm not unprepared to adjust. Not all players are in the same boat and it seems that many would really have to struggle to replace their sets. Nobody should be put in that situation. Maybe a few feel otherwise, but I think most of us want to play the game for fun and there isn't much fun coming to all stop and spending weeks recovering from a change of this magnitude. That kind of disruption without some kind of mitigation from ZOS is just not good for the game's future.

3. No, I shouldn't have to invest my mats and time in replacing armor sets. When a change is made like this, I should be treated fairly and given the opportunity to reclaim the mats already invested or to morp the sets to something more desirable based on the changes.

4. We need a statement from ZOS on how they are going to proceed and what kind of mitigation strategy they are going to employ. That would at least give us an understanding of what we could be doing to prepare for the patch.