Heraldry

Swampster

From the vids I've seen here: http://youtu.be/n-H6ljISiIw of the upcoming cosmetic stuff, it looks like the heraldic 'coats of arms' are fixed logos?

I think it would be great if it were possible to allow user/guild created emblems for use on tabards?

I think Tera allows something similar, basically the user creates a small image file and can upload it via an in game NPC.

It would really give guilds the opportunity for a unique identity!

EinionYrth

Swampster wrote: »

It would really give guilds the opportunity for a unique identity!

And how many would choose to upload a crudely drawn ***?

AlexDougherty

It would depend upon how good the heraldic symbol could be, and you would have to have safeguards against copying heraldry already in game (ie the Aldmeri Dominion symbol would be offlimits).

But if done right it could work.

Swampster

EinionYrthb16_ESO wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

It would really give guilds the opportunity for a unique identity!

And how many would choose to upload a crudely drawn ***?

Yep, there's always that risk of people being childish morons.. but it works fine in other games.

There's ways to limit the possible abuse..
Limited to only the guild leader being able to upload..
Just as user names can be abused, if logo's are abused they'd get reported and the logo is removed, and if it's offensive the account banned.

nudel

I've played games where the user can upload a unique file to spray on the wall. Nine times out of ten that unique file is pornographic.

Your intentions may be good OP, but in reality this would be abused.

Let's not forget what the internet is for...

Swampster

nudel wrote: »

I've played games where the user can upload a unique file to spray on the wall. Nine times out of ten that unique file is pornographic.

Your intentions may be good OP, but in reality this would be abused.

Let's not forget what the internet is for...

Strange how it works in Tera though without any particular problems?

Fairly sure if memory serves that Star Trek Online used to allow Fleet (guilds) to create their own Insignia that was usable on uniforms and ships too..

AlexDougherty

nudel wrote: »

Let's not forget what the internet is for...

Online gaming

Syntse

I'm glad they seem to be restricting it to some reasonable selection of pictures.

Like nudel there said if free creation of emblem would be allowed there would be too many dirty, offensive, rude, trolling heralds done.

All you have to do is go look BF4 and see what kind of emblems people there have, those show up on vehicles you drive and of course on your wear. And seems the BF Hardline is going to make it possible to spraypaint your emblem on any surface.

Swampster

Syntse wrote: »

I'm glad they seem to be restricting it to some reasonable selection of pictures.

Like nudel there said if free creation of emblem would be allowed there would be too many dirty, offensive, rude, trolling heralds done.

All you have to do is go look BF4 and see what kind of emblems people there have, those show up on vehicles you drive and of course on your wear. And seems the BF Hardline is going to make it possible to spraypaint your emblem on any surface.

Does BF4 impose any restrictions however? is it acted upon if images are reported? Are these images open to absolutely everyone, or select people? Or do they allow stuff that's befitting the environment in which the game is set?

Like I said previously.. it works fine in other MMO's. It all depends on how it's restricted/policed, no different to usernames really.

Except as I already said..
it would be limited to Guild Leaders,

but going further make the fee for having such an emblem really expensive, to a point where it'd realistically need several/lots of guild members to chip in funds to afford it. Also like stores they'd be limited to guilds of a certain size..

If anyone posted a dodgy image, it'd soon get reported.. and the person posting it would face losing their account.

nudel

Swampster wrote: »

Does BF4 impose any restrictions however? is it acted upon if images are reported? Are these images open to absolutely everyone, or select people? Or do they allow stuff that's befitting the environment in which the game is set?

Like I said previously.. it works fine in other MMO's. It all depends on how it's restricted/policed, no different to usernames really.

*snip*

Do you really want Zenimax to devote more resources to policing the bad guild insignias? I for one would much prefer that department to focus on banning bots and exploiters rather than approving every single image uploaded by guilds.

EinionYrth

Swampster wrote: »

It all depends on how it's restricted/policed, no different to usernames really.

Point of order, policing of usernames can be automated to some extent, although I agree not fully; images would be much more tricky. Dunno, maybe it could work but I have my reservations.

nudel

All you need to do is look around at the forums. You cannot even submit a custom image for your profile on these forums because they didn't want to be bothered to police it. The likelihood of them allowing custom images on tabards is slim to none.

Swampster

nudel wrote: »

Do you really want Zenimax to devote more resources to policing the bad guild insignias? I for one would much prefer that department to focus on banning bots and exploiters rather than approving every single image uploaded by guilds.

Did I say ZOS has to have a dedicated team of insignia police? No!
Would it need such a team, No!
Do other games manage it perfectly well, without any of that? Yes!

Or are you trying to say ZOS are incapable of doing what others have managed to do?

If a guild is collectively big enough, to a) have the numbers, b) raise the funds they'd be able to post an image, if that image is dodgy it'll probably sooner rather than later get reported by users in game, just like the THOUSANDS of usernames out there that can be abused..

If a guild leader, having first set up a large enough guild, and collected enough funds from said guild wants to risk it.. then I'd suggest because of the prior limiting factors, and the consequent punishment of an account ban, the numbers would be limited anyway, it'd just be dealt with by GM's just as any other 'disciplinary' breech is.

AlexDougherty

nudel wrote: »

All you need to do is look around at the forums. You cannot even submit a custom image for your profile on these forums because they didn't want to be bothered to police it. The likelihood of them allowing custom images on tabards is slim to none.

A bit more than they don't want to be bothered. It would require far more people policing these forums than they currently have, which would require people being paid, which requires money, whch would require higher subscription fees. People are unhappy with the game already, imagine how much more unhappy and how many fewer if the sub fee was two to three times higher than it currently is.

nudel

AlexDougherty wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

All you need to do is look around at the forums. You cannot even submit a custom image for your profile on these forums because they didn't want to be bothered to police it. The likelihood of them allowing custom images on tabards is slim to none.

A bit more than they don't want to be bothered. It would require far more people policing these forums than they currently have, which would require people being paid, which requires money, whch would require higher subscription fees. People are unhappy with the game already, imagine how much more unhappy and how many fewer if the sub fee was two to three times higher than it currently is.

I know that, which is why it doesn't bug me. That also further proves my point. Having people even part-time police the appropriateness of a cosmetic feature is a waste of money.

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO

Swampster wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

I've played games where the user can upload a unique file to spray on the wall. Nine times out of ten that unique file is pornographic.

Your intentions may be good OP, but in reality this would be abused.

Let's not forget what the internet is for...

Strange how it works in Tera though without any particular problems?

Fairly sure if memory serves that Star Trek Online used to allow Fleet (guilds) to create their own Insignia that was usable on uniforms and ships too..

As much as I Enjoyed Tera (untill they nerf the heck out of BAMS *The selling point*, Making normal instancs into solo instances, and even taking out content from the game T_T *Remodeling, pet shops, ect* there is a long list of the stuff they messed that game up on)... erm... Sorry.

The custom guild logo was a great idea, however I don't want to see thousands of guilds will all Anime Characters.... as the damn logo in the ES universe.

You know this would happen and Tera is the best example of this @_@.


To my concern:
How will 10 man guilds be able to have this Heraldry feature. Sure the Guild Master can create the tabard, but how can guildies buy it if Guild stores are for 50+ members?

Swampster

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO wrote: »

As much as I Enjoyed Tera (untill they nerf the heck out of BAMS *The selling point*, Making normal instancs into solo instances, and even taking out content from the game T_T *Remodeling, pet shops, ect* there is a long list of the stuff they messed that game up on)... erm... Sorry.

All that... yeah sorry, completely irrelevant!

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO wrote: »

The custom guild logo was a great idea, however I don't want to see thousands of guilds will all Anime Characters.... as the damn logo in the ES universe.

Easily limited by the contraints of the image itself, you limit the image size, both in dimension, file size, type and bit size

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO wrote: »

To my concern:
How will 10 man guilds be able to have this Heraldry feature. Sure the Guild Master can create the tabard, but how can guildies buy it if Guild stores are for 50+ members?

I'd suggest smaller guilds wouldn't get this heraldry feature, they would be limited to the symbol set as it is proposed already. The option for a custom logo would be a 'reward' for having a stable guild of a certain size..

there's another possible restriction too... guild has to have existed with specific number of players for over a certain amount of time too.

Syntse

Swampster wrote: »

Does BF4 impose any restrictions however? is it acted upon if images are reported? Are these images open to absolutely everyone, or select people? Or do they allow stuff that's befitting the environment in which the game is set?

Reporting is mainly based on player reports. Anyone can create emblem no restrictions. Seems anything is allowed as long as it is not offensive or racist I believe. Let's have some examples that are found and what you will find if such feature would be allowed.

emblemsbf.com/emblem-39494.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-548.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-2465.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-230.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-181.html

Jade_Knightblazerb14_ESO

XD ^^^^ nail on the head.

Swampster

Syntse wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

Does BF4 impose any restrictions however? is it acted upon if images are reported? Are these images open to absolutely everyone, or select people? Or do they allow stuff that's befitting the environment in which the game is set?

Reporting is mainly based on player reports. Anyone can create emblem no restrictions. Seems anything is allowed as long as it is not offensive or racist I believe. Let's have some examples that are found and what you will find if such feature would be allowed.

emblemsbf.com/emblem-39494.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-548.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-2465.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-230.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-181.html

So that's what's available if you have no self limiting conditions applied.. and I guess the BF logo's can apply to one specific person, so less likely to be noticed (and hence reported).. as oppsed to a whole guild full? And the penalties for uploading something unsuitable?

Ser Lobo

12-15

Swampster wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

Does BF4 impose any restrictions however? is it acted upon if images are reported? Are these images open to absolutely everyone, or select people? Or do they allow stuff that's befitting the environment in which the game is set?

Reporting is mainly based on player reports. Anyone can create emblem no restrictions. Seems anything is allowed as long as it is not offensive or racist I believe. Let's have some examples that are found and what you will find if such feature would be allowed.

emblemsbf.com/emblem-39494.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-548.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-2465.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-230.html
emblemsbf.com/emblem-181.html

So that's what's available if you have no self limiting conditions applied.. and I guess the BF logo's can apply to one specific person, so less likely to be noticed (and hence reported).. as oppsed to a whole guild full? And the penalties for uploading something unsuitable?

Speaking from personal experience (as someone who has reported others), BF4 does remove content that it is innappropriate and rude.

Each player can own a guild, too. What's the restrictions on number of players necessary to have a guild tabbard? 10, maybe?

So every little ten man group (which, they can share some members between each other, thereby increasing the number) can abuse the system.

Get reported.

Get investigated.

Get removed.

Claim that they are bronies, or that it wasn't meant to be offensive because that's just a hydraulic pump in Romania, etc, etc. Argue the system.

Take up customer support and GM time and resources.



For how much end benefit does all that process need? Let players use standard symbols, which is ALSO common in MMO's, especially symbols pertinent to the game world (no swastikas, nunchucks, gang signs, halo rings, stylized pictures of Justin Bieber, etc), and let us go from there.

There is a point along the line of options where there is maximum benefit, minimum labor/drama.

Surinen

I oppose this idea. it would allow to further massacre the lore. ponies, happy 'Altmer' and bosmer holding hands together or even such horrible images like bloodied Thalmor body. not to mention that it would definately cause flood of religious/political agendas from the real world.

pinstripesc

I really don't see this happening. It'd be cool, in a perfect universe. But they've already put in like...what, 150 symbols or something? I don't really see them putting all that together and then just saying 'or throw in your own!'

Swampster

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Speaking from personal experience (as someone who has reported others), BF4 does remove content that it is innappropriate and rude.

Each player can own a guild, too. What's the restrictions on number of players necessary to have a guild tabbard? 10, maybe?

So every little ten man group (which, they can share some members between each other, thereby increasing the number) can abuse the system.

Well, as I suggested.. it'd be limited 'as a reward' for guilds of a certain size, that have been in existence a certain amount of time.. I suggested the same as guild stores (50 members I think) but it could b emore or less, coupled with a large fee for such an emblem... could even link it to a reward for a guild achievement. There's lots of options for limitations, and to make the idea something to covet..

Backed up by the big stick of course, not simply removal of item but account bans if abused...

With those gateways in place, along with the appropiate punishment; In my opinion I think the amount of abuse would be limited, and certainly of limited burden to the GMs .

But everyone else seems to think ZOS wouldn't be capable of such a system, and that the majority of ESO players are immature morons all waiting to draw pictures of *** everywhere at every opportunity.. so yeah, who I am I to argue with received wisdom.. might not be the best idea afterall! Shame really!

crislevin

i hope it won't occupy 5 bag space.

Invalidsalad

I don't want to be able to upload images. I could see some... "unfavorable" images on guild signs.

Syntse

Swampster wrote: »

players are immature morons all waiting to draw pictures of *** everywhere at every opportunity..

Unfortunately you are very close to the truth here.

youtu.be/BIFro6mU9Cw