ZoS NEED Improvement to Columbine, Bugloss, Namira's Rot Availability Please

Gilvoth

Fshober28b14_ESO wrote: »

Not sure if this topic has been mentioned as I scoured a few pages in the crafting forum, and didn't see a thread on this recently. If it was and I missed it please excuse this post.

The Issue:
I have found with just these 3 plants(Columbine, Bugloss, Namira's Rot) that it is next to impossible to get even a handful let alone any meaningful quantities just for minimal conservative daily personal consumption. COLUMBINE especially is the most impossible of plants to find, and it's the cornerstone plant of a majority of potions... more than any other plant. This is further compunded by player competition for nodes, very sparce numbers of nodes across all zones, and very lackluster spawn chance.

The Experience:
I spend hours trying to get bare minimum to use to keep at least with my rate of very conservative use and it's impossible. I traverse multiple zones from Auridon up to the Vet Zones, and at best I come up with 1-2 if I am very fortunate a 3rd of any one of the above plants.

Players will also NOT pick nodes of less useful plants like Wormwood, Water Hyacinth, Nirn Root, Emetic Russula, White Cap, Stink Horn...so those nodes never get refreshed with the chance to respawn as one of the other needed plants.

So then players such as myself and others are forced to come behind them, pick all those passed over nodes and never get what we need...just for them or another person to take something more useful that 'might' spawn in its place. It's a system that is a problem cause by the system itself and the player behavior involvement.

The Result:
As an Alchemist with full points invested in this craft, and I truly enjoyed this craft most of all, I cant get what I need to make anything useful for myself. So now my craft is dead in the water and useless to me, and likely others like myself. I tried advertising to buy from other players, but NOBODY and I mean nobody is selling it...I have tried for almost 2 weeks - not even any guilds stores have it available anywhere.

Despite all my time, effort and progress made investing in this craft with the hopes of utilizing it daily in my game play time, I can't make anything I need because im crippled by this problem.

The Request:
Please Zos Team look at this system and improve it in some meaningful way. I don't have any issues going out to the zones and putting in time gathering for 1-2 hours daily if I can at least find what I need so I can at least utilize my Alchemy Craft. You made ore and wood zone specific, but the plants suffer a different system that hampers it's crafts usefulness.

Thanks!

i agree,
i am maxed out in potion making so this is important to me also.

SirAndy

nudel wrote: »

Think of Columbine and Namira's Rot as the Pepper, Oats, and Tomatoes of the Alchemy world. They're rare on purpose b/c they're used to make the best items.

@nudel
They ain't that rare (compared to oats or tomatoes). For example, the starting area in Stormhaven is literally littered with nodes for both Columbine and Namira's Rot.

My DC toon was just there last night to farm some flax ...

Tarukmockto

Hello, my name is Taruk. I'm a potion-aholic.

Sadly I do 'chug' potions like crazy. If I don't, I die. It's not unusual for me to go through 30 to 40 of the holy trinity potion a day. I harvest everything in sight, even the Milkweed junk, just to foster a respawn of a better herb. I'd like to see Bugloss and Columbine just a little more often at spawn points.

I wonder if the people who have no problem finding enough are on a specific server, NA vs EU. That might account for differences in scarcity. Except for when I'm looking for herbs, it is pretty amusing to watch the harvesters on horseback racing circles around and around the circle of streets in the Hollow City!

rainith2000nub18_ESO

@ the OP, you do know about the passive trait that if you level up completely gives you (I think) 4 potions each time you mix one right? If you have that maxed and you're still going though more potions than you can replenish in a day, I don't know what to tell you.

Magdalina

Fshober28b14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, lemme make your day...do you have acces to Coldharbour yet? If you do, there's a great, awesome, gorgeous place there. Alchemist's dream. If you have Keen Eye for alchemy(and I highly recommend getting it, Columbine is like invisible otherwise), it lights up like Christmas tree, 30 or so spawns within 30 m from each other.

I'll reveal you the secret of the trade - it's near one of the exits from Hollow City(City itself has plenty of nodes, too, but those get picked up fast), one that's near the abyss; directly out the city walls. I'm sure you can find it, like only place in Coldharbour where green grass grows.

I used to think same way as you do, but ever since I found the place...well, I always have a spare 100-200 potions now=P

yeah, I knew about Coldharbor a long long time ago, but then so did everyone on the megaserver, so yeah that died real quick when everyone runs in front of you to snatch a node from you that your character is just about to kneel down to do the gather animation and get. It's so over farmed you'd think plants don't even exit there to gather. If it werent for the passed over wormwood, nirn root and water hyacinth...you'd never know lol.

Seriously?o.O I hardly ever see anyone there. Maybe I just don't play in the prime hours xD I can farm enough Columbine for a hundred potions within several hours there.

Also, nirnroot and water hyacinth don't grow over there. Are we talking about the same place?

siledre

invest in the skill that allows you to see plants better, for bugloss and columbine, try the green areas of Alik'r if it's available to you, they seem easier to spot there and I can usually find both of them and mountain flowers as well.

Tarukmockto

Magdalina wrote: »

Seriously?o.O I hardly ever see anyone there. Maybe I just don't play in the prime hours xD I can farm enough Columbine for a hundred potions within several hours there.

Also, nirnroot and water hyacinth don't grow over there. Are we talking about the same place?

Nirnroot and Water Hyacinth grow around the water in Hollow City near the Waypoint.

LongHammer

I do agree that a point would be worth upgrading cultivating a crop / flower. You can upgrade your output when creating a potion so that is sort of the same thing. My personal plant I have trouble finding, Bugloss. I do search Hollowed city, but seems that each time I run up to a node there it disappears, or tells me someone is already harvesting it. This happens several nodes in a row. I harvest everything I come across.

twev

It's Bugloss that I have a hard time finding.
Been a 50 in Alch since about week 3 or 4, so it's not like I haven't been practicing looking for weeds for a long while.
It's about all I used to do at night with keen eye and grass turned off.

OTOH, since the API broke my harvest map, and mapping nodes is what I did for fun while you guys were questing, and I just can't get enthusiastic about remapping all those blank spots again, I just find myself not caring so much about this game and the dev's attitude towards the players.

Just riding out my 6 month subscription, hoping they don't bork this game too much worse.

Tonturri

@twev‌

There's instructions on esoui somewhere that help fix that, I think.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info57-HarvestMapEsoheadMarkers.html
is a good place to start, hopefully I've remembered correctly.

Kayira

You can't find columbine and bugloss out of several reasons:

1. Everyone needs it so they get picked up by other players the most
2. You use them a lot so they never accumulate in your inventory
3. You are searching for them desperately and it gives you the feeling there aren't enough of them because all you see is the other plants you don't need.

The main problem is really number 1. Everyone needs columbine and bugloss.

And namiras rot is extremely rare because it only has a few spawn points. Hope that helped. I agree that this one has low availability.

DeLindsay

Namira's Rot is the only one of those 3 I can remotely agree with and even then meh. If you haven't figured out by now how to get PLENTY of Bugloss & Columbine then I think the problem is you not the game. I play on both NA and EU (only have a VR toon on NA) and I have zero issue finding MORE than enough herbs for Alchemy. These are some of the better spots I've found but really the stuff is everywhere, you just gotta look. The specific paths I'm listing are generally enemy free and easy to follow the road.

Hollow City in Coldharbour - before and after you save it. Seriously, just lap it until you want to stab your eyes out with a spoon just to see color.

Southern Eastmarch - from Dark Water Crossing to Jurunn's Stand WS.

Noob Islands - especially Bal Foyen.

Auridon - everywhere.

Western The Rift - Nimalten to Vernim Woods

Bangkorai - path is huge but basically Onsi's breath WS west to Howler's Nook north to Hallin's Stand WS northeast to Yanurah's Respite west to Nilata Ruins WS

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

i dont know should they increase spawn rate or not but i will tell u that yesterday i gathered mats for 200 triple pots ( stamina , magic , health where columbine and bugloss are standard ingredients ) in two hours ( 00-02 am ). That is sufficient for 3-4 days of play. By my standards spawn rate is ok coz if gathering and playing time is in ratio 1;3 is ok and here i have well above that.

DeLindsay

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

i dont know should they increase spawn rate or not but i will tell u that yesterday i gathered mats for 200 triple pots ( stamina , magic , health ) in two hours ( 00-02 am ). That is sufficient for 3-4 days of play. By my standards spawn rate is ok coz if gathering and playing time is in ratio 1;3 is ok and here i have well above that.

Holy crap man how do you burn through 200 triad pots in 3-4 days? I'm a NB and I don't use that many pots in WEEKS. I can understand the Mag/Crit pots if you run Trials often but even then, wow that's a ton of pots to burn through constantly.

Food4Thought

My take on all this ...

The OP started with a mistake. Don't start in Auridon. Start in Khan's Roost. That is where the true starter level alchemy items can be found now. And since the great bot purge a month ago, you can actually find items there now.

As to their rarity.

Yes, a number of usefull alchemy items are a bit hard to find. But by the gods they are easier to come by than enchanting items at least.

And finally to the OP, define "conservative" use. I only pop a potion during boss fights and the occasional "Oh, crap" moments. This means I probably don't go through more than a couple a day.

If you are in VR or end level content, may be your need is more than mine, but at that point I wouldn't consider it conservative.

Islyn

More *gimme it free and easy* posts. lol.

I will trade you my bugloss, columbine and nami for your ladysmock and cornflower

Merlin13KAGL

xaraan wrote: »

Weird, other than Namira's Rot, which I don't use for much, I've had no problem finding tons of the other plants (or some of the other popular ones for other potion types). Maybe you just have a run of bad luck?

@xaraan, After the first major zone, I actually find a decent amount of Namira's Rot, third zone even more.

I believe it's one that combines to something less visible, but I don't recall offhand. (Also, for the record, it's one of the few potions that has the same duration at Level 1 via Natural Water as it does at VR25...so don't waste your good reagents if you decide to make that particular one.)

Vuron wrote: »

The nodes aren't really that rare and I wouldn't have a problem with it even if they were.

Seriously, can't we have any sort of challenge or obstacles in this game? All you need to do to create potions is stand in front of a station and keep hitting "R". There should be some things that are risk/reward or time/reward and alchemy and provisioning are about the easiest things you can do in the entire game.

There was an argument above about newer players having trouble leveling because all the good mats are being harvested by others. I leveled alchemy from 1-50 in less than 2 hours by using the mats that nobody else wanted. Most of the potions that you create to level are pretty much worthless, so why use the best mats to level?

Question... what potion are you making that requires Namira's Rot? Are you sure there aren't other combinations that make the same potion?

@Vuron‌, this exactly... Just because you make the potions, doesn't mean you have to use the potions! And leftovers (the stuff no one else wants) are great for that. I don't want my Level 50 card handed to me for anything!

In my heart, I do hate using the ingredients that lead to poisons...I secretly hope there will be an Oblivion-like use for them someday.

Tarukmockto wrote: »

Hello, my name is Taruk. I'm a potion-aholic.

"Hi Tarukmockto"

Tarukmockto wrote: »

Sadly I do 'chug' potions like crazy. If I don't, I die. It's not unusual for me to go through 30 to 40 of the holy trinity potion a day. I harvest everything in sight, even the Milkweed junk, just to foster a respawn of a better herb. I'd like to see Bugloss and Columbine just a little more often at spawn points.

@Tarukmockto‌, perhaps you need some armor or enchantment upgrades? I'm not saying you're doing it wrong, by any means. I don't know what you are confronted with (Incidentally, admitting you have a problem is the first step towards recovery. *Stands and claps*), but I can't fathom using that many of anything in a 24 hour real-time day of playing...

You might check out some of your other passives, as well. (Or possibly kill that mud crab that's been nipping at your boots for the last week?) (Been there)

LongHammer wrote: »

I do agree that a point would be worth upgrading cultivating a crop / flower. You can upgrade your output when creating a potion so that is sort of the same thing. My personal plant I have trouble finding, Bugloss.

@LongHammer, I am hopeful they implement some kind of minor gardening things later, just for the immersion, and a possible once a day harvest, for instance.

twev wrote: »

It's Bugloss that I have a hard time finding.
Been a 50 in Alch since about week 3 or 4, so it's not like I haven't been practicing looking for weeds for a long while.
It's about all I used to do at night with keen eye and grass turned off.

@twev, @Longhammer, Bugloss seems to be the less spawned one for me as well. I find a relatively fair amount of Columbine when out and about.

Keen eye is a must, night helps, grass off less necessary if you have Keen eye. All good recommendations.

Tonturri wrote: »

@twev‌

There's instructions on esoui somewhere that help fix that, I think.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info57-HarvestMapEsoheadMarkers.html
is a good place to start, hopefully I've remembered correctly.

Or you could pay someone to play the game for you... (Minor peeve here...just ignore me.) It's a big ol' world out there. Roam it and pick up what you find. It's not intended to be a farm simulation.

DeLindsay wrote: »

Namira's Rot is the only one of those 3 I can remotely agree with and even then meh.

Per above, still find a fair amount of Rot.

DeLindsay wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

i dont know should they increase spawn rate or not but i will tell u that yesterday i gathered mats for 200 triple pots ( stamina , magic , health ) in two hours ( 00-02 am ). That is sufficient for 3-4 days of play. By my standards spawn rate is ok coz if gathering and playing time is in ratio 1;3 is ok and here i have well above that.

Holy crap man how do you burn through 200 triad pots in 3-4 days? I'm a NB and I don't use that many pots in WEEKS. I can understand the Mag/Crit pots if you run Trials often but even then, wow that's a ton of pots to burn through constantly.

@Delindsay, @Tarukmockto‌, everyone...say hello to tino.antoninieb17_ESO.

"Hi Tino"

Holy crap indeed! You know the effects are instant and don't stack, right? Partly because they're, well, instant? Sounds like you could benefit from a good Provisioner and Enchanter.

Food4Thought wrote: »

The OP started with a mistake. Don't start in Auridon. Start in Khan's Roost. That is where the true starter level alchemy items can be found now. And since the great bot purge a month ago, you can actually find items there now.

@Food4Thought‌, so many people skip the starter islands. I don't know if they consider it the "Kiddy Area" or what? There are tons of mats to be had there! More than enough to get you started...

I'm occasionally tempted to return, but feel I would be taking from those just beginning, and that is not my intent.

So... Summarized - Columbine, average. Bugloss, seems low to me compared with other spawns. Rot, about average.

Pick everything...a potion's a potion's a potion, especially when you are trying to level the skill. And as one of the many people I quoted above indicated, if you don't pick what you don't want, it can't respawn into what you do want!

(And I can't get away from Nirnroot to save my life...Pretty sure I was in the desert the other day and still had one lookin' at me!)

No offense intended to anyone, just my three gold.

Happy crafting. Happy adventuring!

wrlifeboil

SirAndy wrote: »

nudel wrote: »

Think of Columbine and Namira's Rot as the Pepper, Oats, and Tomatoes of the Alchemy world. They're rare on purpose b/c they're used to make the best items.

@nudel
They ain't that rare (compared to oats or tomatoes). For example, the starting area in Stormhaven is literally littered with nodes for both Columbine and Namira's Rot.

My DC toon was just there last night to farm some flax ...

Tomatoes and Oats are much harder to get than any herb. I think I've had fewer than 20 Tomatoes and Oats since launch. You can get more than a dozen of any herb with 2-3 hours of farming. That's why they sell for so cheap. Spend 2-3 hours farming a dozen Bugloss and it sells on guild stores @100-110g each for a total of 1200-1320g. Not a very high return on time spent.

One purple crafting mat like Mastic or Grain Solvent sells for more than 1kg and you don't have to spend 2-3 hours farming to get just one.

SBR_QuorTek

Or just let them drop in quantities of 3-4 from each node, would be nice really.

HaljaNifheim

There are affinity rules for alchemy harvest nodes from my experience.

1. Water rule: only Water Hyacinth and Nirnroot spawn around water edges. They may spawn interchangeable at the same spot.
2. Tree rule: only the mushroom types spawn right next a tree over fallen wood/stumps.
3. Cave rule: only mushrooms unless there is water then apply rule one.
4. Green pastures rule: any type not covered by first three spawn in open land areas.

Basically, they are following where these typically grow in real life if they exist. Only Nirnroot and Namira's Rot are completely made up. In the wild Columbine flower are very low to the ground. People just train them to grown up trellis and mailboxes. One point in the passive skill that allows you to see plants better makes a huge difference in find them.

Oevaag_Bur

My issue with the is that Coldharbour farming, even with 20 or 30 others doing it at the same time, still net's more herbs per hour than any empty zone I've been able to find. No where else appears to match it for density and respawn rates.

fluffycannibalb16_ESO

Oevaag_Bur wrote: »

My issue with the is that Coldharbour farming, even with 20 or 30 others doing it at the same time, still net's more herbs per hour than any empty zone I've been able to find. No where else appears to match it for density and respawn rates.

Yes, but, there are very few (or no) flower spawners anywhere else in Coldharbour. Reducing the number in Hollow City would either mean forcing players in that zone to farm elsewhere, or adding grassy areas outside of the city which would be a bit of a lore and immersion breaker. The other setback with Coldharbour is the lack of water - there are absolutely no water springs, whatsoever. The only way to get hold of water is from containers and water skins which makes it hard to get decent quantities of the stuff. I spent a very long (and frustrating) time trying to find water there earlier and only managed to find around 6 bottles of level 40 water (most of what I found was VR1). Although luckily I levelled my Alchemy to 40 on my last bottle, and can now make VR1 potions - but it would suck to be a character level 40-something stuck in Coldharbour using level 30 potions. What good are all those Reagents when you have no Solvent?

Oevaag_Bur

I always have 3 or 400 waters in my bank as I get them in every vr zone (urns best 1-5). And, I don't want them to nerf Coldharbour just add a few more areas in the game with similar densities and respawn rates

Ashtaris

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Woolenthreads wrote: »

I have commented on this from time to time, only to be pooh-poohed. I suspect that this is actually an issue relating to bots and players. I suspect that many alchemical components, like many other crafting mats are being bot-farmed (to make potions).

I don't think I've ever seen a bot farming herbs, ever, certainly the legion of pathing/tele/poshack bots I've seen have only been interested in harvesting the 'production' mats, if you like.

Then you either have been very lucky or just haven't noticed the farming. I don't know how many times I have reached down to pick Columbine or other rare mat to have it disappear before my very eyes. Usually from one of those subterranean or instant transport bots. So I agree that bots are making the availability of some materials more difficult. But if you want to really complain, try provisioning where you might get tomatoes once a month from your hireling, if your lucky!

Pele

I stand by the sentiment of my original post on the availability of the three plants being discussed here.

I just stepped out of a wayshrine and found three Columbine. I am sure I could've found more had I been farming instead of running to meet my group. Was I simply fortunate and blessed by the RNG gods? Perhaps. But that is not an isolated experience for me.

DeLindsay

@Pele I love your signature, too bad a comment like that would get me banned lol.

flemmingrohdb16_ESO

Fshober28b14_ESO wrote: »

yeah, that's not me I am not a potion supplier...this is like I stated just some for my personal daily conserative use. I can understand a fluke of being in a bad run of luck on a day here and there cause of the rng and player factors, but for 2 weeks+ now its the same thing every day, for my it has become unobtainable, again for the mentioned compound reasons.

If I can just get 5...maybe even up to just 10 Columbine daily that would more than sufficient for my daily use...in fact 10 columbine would get me thru 2 days since I use conservatively...which you would think would be so super easy to get right? Nope, I only manage 2-3 if that, for an average of up to 3 hours of plant hunting across multiple zones for just Columbine. Not to menton the others I still need as well not just the Columbine. Like I mentioned, I can't even get anyone to sell me any at all anywhere I advertise in chat including the main trading zones... and we know why.

if you need 10 columbine a day, which makes 40 potions!
then i would not call your consumption conservative!
i use maybe 10 potions a week, which i have no problem whatsoever getting myself, i actually manage to sell a stack of potions now and again

Srugzal

Natjur wrote: »

Each plant as a 'spawn' loc, and it shares that with some other types, but not all.

Eg Blue Entoloma, Imp Stool, Namira's Rot (all mushrooms) all share a spawn spot but do not take from Columbine spots

Columbine (flower -plains) shares with Dragonthorn, Bugloss, Blessed Thistle and Cornflower

But Dragonthorn, Blessed Thistle and Cornflower is useless so no one farmed those and therefore Columbine has a less chances to spawn

Blessed Thistle + Dragonthorn = Restore Stamina & Increase Weapon Power

Blessed Thistle, Dragonthorn and Cornflower all are important ingredients in Stamina based pots and in pots that raise crit values.

For instance, Corn Flower + Lady's Smock + Water Hyacinth = Regenerate Magicka, increase spell critical and spell power.

Blessed Thistle + Dragonthorn + Water Hyacinth = Regenerate Stamina + Increase Weapon Crit + Increase Weapon Power.

There are a few ingredients like Imp Stool that have only one positive effect, so you can't make use of them unless you take all three of the Snake Venom passives, which cancel the negative effect. For instance, Imp Stool + Mountain Flower = Gives you a huge armor boost, but there's a decrease weapon power in there for 10 sec--which is cancelled by the passive.

There are 63 different potions, for instance, that boost health. If you have those passives, you can use all of them. It's possible even to make a useful health potion with Blue Entoloma and Luminous Russula--not what you'd call an obvious combination. I find a lot of both of these. The combinations are nearly endless.

So no, there are no useless ingredients.

Srugzal

siledre wrote: »

invest in the skill that allows you to see plants better, for bugloss and columbine, try the green areas of Alik'r if it's available to you, they seem easier to spot there and I can usually find both of them and mountain flowers as well.

Here's a trick that I use that makes things like Lady's Smock, Columbine, and Cornflower stand out. Go into Settings -> Video and turn off "Grass." It works especially well for Columbine, since it's short. Bugloss, of course, you can see from way off. Also good for things like Flax and Spidersilk, though that's another thread. As it were...

Srugzal

DeLindsay wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

i dont know should they increase spawn rate or not but i will tell u that yesterday i gathered mats for 200 triple pots ( stamina , magic , health ) in two hours ( 00-02 am ). That is sufficient for 3-4 days of play. By my standards spawn rate is ok coz if gathering and playing time is in ratio 1;3 is ok and here i have well above that.

Holy crap man how do you burn through 200 triad pots in 3-4 days? I'm a NB and I don't use that many pots in WEEKS. I can understand the Mag/Crit pots if you run Trials often but even then, wow that's a ton of pots to burn through constantly.

Methinks that pot over-use can be a substitute for mastering the mechanics of blocking, interrupting, and getting out of the red circles using various means. I normally only need pots in long boss fights or if I screw up and get myself cornered.

Especially the big triple pots, so much of that is wasted. How often do you really need all three at once? When it gets that bad, what you need is some Health and Invisibility, so you can run away (Blue Entoloma + Mountain Flower + Namira's Rot, for one), or even Speed and Invisibility (Blessed Thistle + Blue Entoloma + Namira's Rot).

I think that the shotgun approach looks nice on paper but isn't a good use of crafting resources.