I am happy for the Solo players

Mallius

Then what do you suggest for the people who do like playing with their friends through the normal content and not just in certain areas such as dungeons? Or is that a demographic who are just wrong now and shouldn't be allowed to play that way because most people are getting even less social in gaming?

Alphashado

Innocente wrote: »

I am happy that you are getting the ESO game that you want. I am sure that, eventually, Craglorn and all the current group content will also be available to you as solo content. And, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is the game that Zenimax has chosen to make out of ESO.

It could have gone the other way very easily. Zenimax could have put in large incentives to group: more experience when grouped, more loots when grouped, better loots when grouped, more power when grouped. Heck, they could have spent the time to make grouping actually work in the phased out world of ESO!

But, they did not. No matter what anyone tells you, ESO is not an MMO. Sure, it has lots of subscribers. There are lots of random people tossed into the countless instances in the game. But what makes an MMO - the heart of an MMO, group play, is just gone now.

The MMO players have been leaving ESO in large numbers, a trend I expect to continue. Eventually, the solo players will tire of it all; there will be no social bond to keep them here either.

But, for now, enjoy the game that Zenimax has given you. I am sure that most of you will be happy to see the so called 'elitist' MMO crowd go away. There could have been room for all of us. Sad that there is not.

Try to solo a 1-50 dungeon the same lvl as you. Try to solo any VR dungeon. Try to solo a Trial. Then get back to us please and tell us how it went for you.

P.S
Remind me where any of the main story quest content in WoW required a group. Remind me where anything outside of dungeons, heroic dungeons, or raids in WoW required a group. Because I seem to be forgetting.....

Elencha

I just keep seeing this and it confuses me no end. What is this obsession with forced interaction? Work is something you have to do. Games are things you want to do. At least where I come from. I admit the grouping implementation in ESO leaves something to be desired. It needs a lot of work, there's no denying that. But I don't agree that the lack of incentive to group is among the problems. The incentive to group is, (and should be), that you want to. You feel like interacting with other people, the ability to do so should be there. You feel like interacting with just the game, the ability should also be there. I just don't understand the argument that there need to be things in the game designed to encourage or force interaction between players. One's own desire is enough. I play with one other person on a regular basis. I don't do this because there are mechanics that require it, I do it because I like that person and want to play with him. Am I just not getting something here?

GreySix

Alphashado wrote: »

P.S
Remind me where any of the main story quest content in WoW required a group. Remind me where anything outside of dungeons, heroic dungeons, or raids in WoW required a group. Because I seem to be forgetting.....

Can't think of a single AAA subscription MMO that required solo play in the main story.




... well, before this one anyway.

Mallius

Elencha I am totally with you! You are the first person I've seen to make sense! It absolutely should be desire to play with people not just a game mechanic but as you say it does leave a lot to be desired in this game I.e makes it nigh on impossible without being very strict on when you play with other people

Woolenthreads

*shrug* At $100+/month subscription to get the game in the first place, I think the solo content is the only thing that makes it worthwhile. My recollection of Eve was /month subscription with no up front cost, the same as WoW.

This one has Cheese, it is said to be "from the Shivering Isles", would you like some with your [snip]?

LordEcks

Innocente wrote: »

DG, Oh, I don't know. 14 years playing MMOs should be enough, I think. ESO has more in common with Call of Duty and Modern Warfare than it does with World of Warcraft or EQ2 or WildStar.

Was that statement meant to impress? 14 years just means you had a year or two of AC or EQ before WoW came out.... get someone in here with about double that number back to the ARPANet MUDs and we'll talk about expert opinion.

ESO is an MMO and while to a point I can agree with you that it has much less social interaction than most of the other successful MMOs out there, claiming it not to be an MMO is reaching a bit.

Time will tell if it will be successful or not, but just because its not a clone of [your most played MMO here] doesn't mean it wont succeed.

For all we know this game could explode on the console market? Now I think I'm reaching.. but.. hey.. never know.

Sihnfahl

LordEcks wrote: »

claiming it not to be an MMO is reaching a bit.

MUDs, MUSEs, MUSHs and MOOs. Text-based stuff, especially free-form roleplay, really does test peoples' ability to communicate. And you knew who the popular free-formers were; they were the ones with the engaging storylines and entertaining interactions.

UO, even in beta, was rather enjoyable, even if they did foul up boats and housing initially on release. And remember the bardic spam at the zoo?

david271749

Lol

Anastasia

GreySix wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

P.S
Remind me where any of the main story quest content in WoW required a group. Remind me where anything outside of dungeons, heroic dungeons, or raids in WoW required a group. Because I seem to be forgetting.....

Can't think of a single AAA subscription MMO that required solo play in the main story.




... well, before this one anyway.

Cool beans Greysix- excellent point.

Alphashado

GreySix wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

P.S
Remind me where any of the main story quest content in WoW required a group. Remind me where anything outside of dungeons, heroic dungeons, or raids in WoW required a group. Because I seem to be forgetting.....

Can't think of a single AAA subscription MMO that required solo play in the main story.




... well, before this one anyway.

Oh I agree with you there. I have always thought it was silly that a friend or loved one couldn't help with a mandatory quest. There was a brief time when WoW experimented with phasing though. I believe it was WotLK. And there may have been some similar cases there.

Nox_Aeterna

theyancey wrote: »

There are no incentives possible that would force me into formal groups. Just not worth the hassle. I do like the informal grouping that occurs though. That has been one of my favorite aspects of ESO. I will not miss those who wish to force me into groups though. I would unsub if they had the game they demand.

Pretty much this.

I want to play solo , deal with it.

I dont mind the fact that there is content for both groups , makes perfect sense , but people like the OP need to stop day dreaming that the game would be better with people being forced into groups.

If i was forced into groups , i would not adapt , i would quit.

Craglorn is meant for groups , fine , now zen must add an zone so that solo players can also get vet 12 doing quests , just like vr1/10.

SirNigelThornberry

LordEcks wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

DG, Oh, I don't know. 14 years playing MMOs should be enough, I think. ESO has more in common with Call of Duty and Modern Warfare than it does with World of Warcraft or EQ2 or WildStar.

Was that statement meant to impress? 14 years just means you had a year or two of AC or EQ before WoW came out.... get someone in here with about double that number back to the ARPANet MUDs and we'll talk about expert opinion.

ESO is an MMO and while to a point I can agree with you that it has much less social interaction than most of the other successful MMOs out there, claiming it not to be an MMO is reaching a bit.

Time will tell if it will be successful or not, but just because its not a clone of [your most played MMO here] doesn't mean it wont succeed.

For all we know this game could explode on the console market? Now I think I'm reaching.. but.. hey.. never know.

Well lack of force social play is a bonus on consoles actually.

Sihnfahl

Alphashado wrote: »

There was a brief time when WoW experimented with phasing though. I believe it was WotLK. And there may have been some similar cases there.

WOTLK was the first phasing for WoW, but they continued it into Cata and Pandaria.

It was fun going into an area with a friend in a group and seeing that blue circle next to my friend's name...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Mallius wrote: »

Then what do you suggest for the people who do like playing with their friends through the normal content and not just in certain areas such as dungeons? Or is that a demographic who are just wrong now and shouldn't be allowed to play that way because most people are getting even less social in gaming?

Apart from the forced-soloing which I would agree is just as unacceptable as forced grouping, what content are 'groupers' locked out of?

Sihnfahl

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Apart from the forced-soloing which I would agree is just as unacceptable as forced grouping, what content are 'groupers' locked out of?

Nothing in Vet Content. It's only the non-world pre-vet content on the Mage + Fighter Guild questlines and the main storyline.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Alphashado wrote: »

Remind me where any of the main story quest content in WoW required a group..

LOL, you obviously never played Pandaria, or for that matter Outlands, Lich King or Catalcysm either.

EVERY expansion's main story was entirely group-based and most actually required you to RAID at least once to experience the full story; except for Pandaria where the first couple of quests were soloable until you met the Black Prince.

Irakandji

I just wish it was easier to group effectively.

I make a friend but we are at different stages so the phasing gets in the way of questing.

We spend a lot and way too much, time trying to figure out what we can do together.

To many groups are one shot, lets kill this one thing. That is not social it's opportunistic.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

GreySix wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

P.S
Remind me where any of the main story quest content in WoW required a group. Remind me where anything outside of dungeons, heroic dungeons, or raids in WoW required a group. Because I seem to be forgetting.....

Can't think of a single AAA subscription MMO that required solo play in the main story.

... well, before this one anyway.

If you widen that to include content that gated features, progression, etc. then:

1) FFXI - forced solo to break the level 70 cap.
2) FFXIV - every instanced fight in the class progression quests are solo-only.

steveb16_ESO46

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I play an MMO, I'm in a guild and I play most the content solo. Why, because I can group with friends when I want to.

Provided the game agrees to let you, which is a big part of the problem. Insofar as this is an MMO the game itself has pretty strict rules about who it will let you group with, when and under what circumstances.

phairdon

Played one other mmo prior to eso. The only time you had to group on the pve side of the game was for champions (world bosses in this game), dungeons plus certain content added from time to time. Everything else in pve was able to be done solo or with a pve group if you chose to run with one.

MMO ; massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players.

GreySix

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

P.S
Remind me where any of the main story quest content in WoW required a group. Remind me where anything outside of dungeons, heroic dungeons, or raids in WoW required a group. Because I seem to be forgetting.....

Can't think of a single AAA subscription MMO that required solo play in the main story.

... well, before this one anyway.

If you widen that to include content that gated features, progression, etc. then:

1) FFXI - forced solo to break the level 70 cap.
2) FFXIV - every instanced fight in the class progression quests are solo-only.

Interesting. Wasn't tracking those. Would the Level 70 cap in that FF MMO be somewhat equivalent to the ESO pre-Level 50 main story, or rather the ESO veteran ranks?

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Innocente wrote: »

It could have gone the other way very easily. Zenimax could have put in large incentives to group: more experience when grouped, more loots when grouped, better loots when grouped, more power when grouped. Heck, they could have spent the time to make grouping actually work in the phased out world of ESO!

<snip>

But, for now, enjoy the game that Zenimax has given you. I am sure that most of you will be happy to see the so called 'elitist' MMO crowd go away. There could have been room for all of us. Sad that there is not.

By saying what you did in the first paragraph it's clear why you don't see what you say in the last couple of sentences just can't happen.

I'm not trying to be an ass, or rude, so don't take what I'm saying as a 'put down', but frankly the fact you think that grouping could be made more attractive by simply increasing the phatness of the lewt really misses the entire point for many 'casuals' (I used the word, not you) and 'soloers': gear is a means to an end, not an end itself, large numbers of players like me have no interest in doing something simply to get some blue or purple pixels in the names of a piece of gear.

What 'we' are dead against is being forced to 'group up' simple to level, as was the case in last-century games like EQ, FFXI et. al. We didn't play MMOs then because of that, we play MMOs now because [generally] we don't have to do that, and I now only do it if a game coerces me into it and I feel the benefits outweigh the pain: I just canceled FFXIV because the balance shifted the wrong way.

And that's the reason what you say in the second paragraph will likely not happen, the motivation of the 'grouper' and the 'soloers' is fundamentally different so what appeals and entices one often at best is irrelevant to the other or at worst is a disincentive to the other.

Cogo

The problem to not get groups is not a group tool, rewards or other things that ARE an incentive to group. Yes. Mechanics in a game is ONE incentive to make groups. But not the only one.

The main problem is that we as MMO players, ALL of us, has become used to the MMO providing any sort of groupings for us.

We have forgot the simple way of creating your own group, by just asking people we do not know. Or even think about asking friends or guild members.
Same thing with making friends and guilds. We have forgot how to say "Hello! Would you like to join a group for X, or my guild that is X"...and keep talking for more then 30 seconds?

Yes, by talking to others, just like in real life, you WILL get different responses, if any. You WILL risk to create a group with "rude/not good/etc/" players.
However, if we do not do this, we do not meet the "good" and maybe a new guild member either.

Unless we as players, meets other players without DEPENDING 100% on the tools MMO provide for us,of course we woun't have any groups.

MMOs without this problem
The main reason for the MMOs with big communities, guild and other "groups" which does not this problem. Is very simple. They talk to strangers, makes friends, and the MMO is not doing this for you.

The player does it, themselves. I am not blaming us as MMO players. I am pointing out, we have become so dependent on mechanics......that we forgot that we could try ourselves, or we fear meeting a "rude" person.

headbuster

It is kinda funny that everyone says Craglorn is made for groups. The only groups I ever see in Craglorn are xp grind groups that are just farming mobs not quests or instances.

Sihnfahl

headbuster wrote: »

It is kinda funny that everyone says Craglorn is made for groups. The only groups I ever see in Craglorn are xp grind groups that are just farming mobs not quests or instances.

Well, in THEORY it is. There are quests, because of their mechanics, you can't do solo. And because of the five+ mob pulls (with uber-healers involved in some areas), you need assistance unless you're a top-flight player.

In PRACTICE, though, people ignore the quests and just pound through the grinding. They don't even finish the delves - they just go straight for the fastest XP mobs possible, then leave and reset.

thedatajunkie

It's so aggravating to hear all the MMO people complaining about the solo content, but they forget: We walk the realm of Tamriel, on the planet of Nirn. The whole world was created out of SOLO games. For years millions of us have played by ourselves and we were happy. At most we just wanted co-op. But here we are. 2 distinct gameplay styles thrust together and forced to interact. The bulk of people coming to this game are coming from that solo history and we don't appreciate being treated like we are the interlopers.

Bolo_Bob

someone probably already said this, but MMO does not mean forced grouping.

otherwise it would be called MMOFG or MMFGO.

not everyone enjoys being in a huge group where nothing really matters if you have 2 or 3 healers that are awake at the keyboard or just spam 1 button area heals.

the great thing about solo or 2 player co-op is it makes it easy to just hop on and play when people want to play, without trying to organize or stand around waiting to join a group for to long.

phairdon

thedatajunkie wrote: »

It's so aggravating to hear all the MMO people complaining about the solo content, but they forget: We walk the realm of Tamriel, on the planet of Nirn. The whole world was created out of SOLO games. For years millions of us have played by ourselves and we were happy. At most we just wanted co-op. But here we are. 2 distinct gameplay styles thrust together and forced to interact. The bulk of people coming to this game are coming from that solo history and we don't appreciate being treated like we are the interlopers.

Thing is, where does it say mmo games are supposed to be group based anyway? This would be solely down to the discretion of the developers when making their games.

Mallius

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Mallius wrote: »

Then what do you suggest for the people who do like playing with their friends through the normal content and not just in certain areas such as dungeons? Or is that a demographic who are just wrong now and shouldn't be allowed to play that way because most people are getting even less social in gaming?

Apart from the forced-soloing which I would agree is just as unacceptable as forced grouping, what content are 'groupers' locked out of?

They aren't locked out of content, they are locked from helping each other on quests if one person has already finished it because of the way the phasing works in the game. I'll give an example, I got the game 2 days before my friend, I was lvl 10 or something I thin and my friend was level 7 so we decided that was okay to play together because the level difference wasn't too much. In any other game this would have been fine but because I had already done all the quests I wasn't able to repeat them because when my friend was getting attacked by mobs in a ruined town I was stood next to a vendor unable to help him even though he was allegedly stood 5m away from me