Templars and PvP - Spread some love

Lowbei

give templars ranged ae root, it will serve as their escape potential and also it will provide a means to stop a rainbow train and provide much needed utility to the class.

tinythinker

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hi guys, I'm Jack and I have been an avid Templar player for some time now. Allot of people hate on Templars, for many different reasons. I think this deters allot of people from playing a Templar, and choosing to pick a different class or re roll to one.

I believe that Templars are actually a great class, and I hope to help shine some light on how they can be. I think that maybe the reason so many people don't like a Templar damage output is because so many Templar's roll healer. Lots of belief is that puncturing sweeps or bitting jabs is a Templars only real option of dealing any good damage. Templars have allot more to them, and can do so much more than just be a healer or one skill spammer.

This thread is dedicated to Templar love! Please post and show what a Templar can really do and why you love playing one!

I had tried a similar call for Templar PvP videos, and in that thread I had also used one of your Legend videos as an example (I only found a couple of other Templar PvP videos that weren't from Beta and they were a little dated). But neither of our threads have yet to net any new material. Yet.


Anyway, about the Vampire thing...

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I play a 'pure Templar'. What I mean is, my Templar is the sort that wouldn't be a werewolf or vampire. Some of the things you do there like Bat Swarm + Blazing Shield I can't really do. I totally understand why you did it, but it will really kill my style to do so. I tend to use Blazing + Empowering Sweep, which of course isn't going to be as strong as what is done in this video.

JackDaniell wrote: »

My DPS actually comes from what you cant see, while I'm in the swarm I spam blazing spear and reflective light. This combo is incredibly hard hitting AOE (450 spear crit + 550 reflective crit) and it also leaves a nasty DOT on your opponents (125 burning dot + 40 spear dot that can proc burning light which crits for 360). All that damage hits multiple targets as well. I have used jabs and dark flare before, and the damage is around the same against a single target, where as this combo can hit many targets.

JackDaniell wrote: »

Yes effective CC is a huge weakness of mine, as it is for any class. The only real counter to it is efficient stamina mitigation, that is the reason I run drain so I can have nearly a full bar at all times. This build is not easy to play if I overspend, meaning that if I make a mistake in a group of 3-4 people I am probably dead. But it is possible to play this and avoid/counter being hard CC'd, it just requires lots of discipline and attention to surroundings.

I might try substituting Reflective Light for Vampire's Bane when 1.3 comes out since that update will include cheaper respecs, but I am still wondering the same thing that dodgehopper did. I can appreciate how Blazing Spear and Reflective Light can give a harder hitting AOE, but it still seems that the extra AOE damage from Bat Swarm and gaining health/stamina from Drain Essence are critical parts of the video character's build and associated play style.

Naturally a vampire PC is going to have extra abilities (and weaknesses), but I wonder what the players of non-vamp characters do to get an edge in AOE damage or boost CC mitigation?

Anyone want to share their approach?

JackDaniell

tinythinker wrote: »

Unfortunately Templars can not play this kind of style to the same effect without Vampirism. Clouding swarm is just to good of an ultimate, and provides so much utility in a fight.

Without vampirism I think my best approach would be a much more tank/cc build. But with the Templar skill trees making an efficient CC build is not easy. I'm sure someone will come up with something very strong tho

As for more videos, I can promise them on the horizon I have about 40 hours of raw footage to go through, but since I started running the Spec in the latest outnumbered video allot if it looks the same as the video. I don't really want to release a new video that is so similar and using the same build, but I just can't stop playing it

You can quote me on this though, once 1.3 hits this game will change. So many different specs will now become much more viable. I hope to put out a 5/7 heavy armor build in the near future.

timidobserver

@tinythinker‌
I have been eyeing a heavy armor build as well, but, I just can't justify the tradeoffs. You lose a lot for an armor boost that a NB is going to take from you anyway with Reaper's Mark and Glyph of crushing and the Night Mother set. Vampire is going to negate the health regen gain. The only benefit to heavy, IMO, is the New CC reduction passive currently showing on the pts.

tinythinker wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hi guys, I'm Jack and I have been an avid Templar player for some time now. Allot of people hate on Templars, for many different reasons. I think this deters allot of people from playing a Templar, and choosing to pick a different class or re roll to one.

I believe that Templars are actually a great class, and I hope to help shine some light on how they can be. I think that maybe the reason so many people don't like a Templar damage output is because so many Templar's roll healer. Lots of belief is that puncturing sweeps or bitting jabs is a Templars only real option of dealing any good damage. Templars have allot more to them, and can do so much more than just be a healer or one skill spammer.

This thread is dedicated to Templar love! Please post and show what a Templar can really do and why you love playing one!

I had tried a similar call for Templar PvP videos, and in that thread I had also used one of your Legend videos as an example (I only found a couple of other Templar PvP videos that weren't from Beta and they were a little dated). But neither of our threads have yet to net any new material. Yet.


Anyway, about the Vampire thing...

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I play a 'pure Templar'. What I mean is, my Templar is the sort that wouldn't be a werewolf or vampire. Some of the things you do there like Bat Swarm + Blazing Shield I can't really do. I totally understand why you did it, but it will really kill my style to do so. I tend to use Blazing + Empowering Sweep, which of course isn't going to be as strong as what is done in this video.

JackDaniell wrote: »

My DPS actually comes from what you cant see, while I'm in the swarm I spam blazing spear and reflective light. This combo is incredibly hard hitting AOE (450 spear crit + 550 reflective crit) and it also leaves a nasty DOT on your opponents (125 burning dot + 40 spear dot that can proc burning light which crits for 360). All that damage hits multiple targets as well. I have used jabs and dark flare before, and the damage is around the same against a single target, where as this combo can hit many targets.

JackDaniell wrote: »

Yes effective CC is a huge weakness of mine, as it is for any class. The only real counter to it is efficient stamina mitigation, that is the reason I run drain so I can have nearly a full bar at all times. This build is not easy to play if I overspend, meaning that if I make a mistake in a group of 3-4 people I am probably dead. But it is possible to play this and avoid/counter being hard CC'd, it just requires lots of discipline and attention to surroundings.

I might try substituting Reflective Light for Vampire's Bane when 1.3 comes out since that update will include cheaper respecs, but I am still wondering the same thing that dodgehopper did. I can appreciate how Blazing Spear and Reflective Light can give a harder hitting AOE, but it still seems that the extra AOE damage from Bat Swarm and gaining health/stamina from Drain Essence are critical parts of the video character's build and associated play style.

Naturally a vampire PC is going to have extra abilities (and weaknesses), but I wonder what the players of non-vamp characters do to get an edge in AOE damage or boost CC mitigation?

Anyone want to share their approach?

I play a similar build. Bat Swarm essential, but I prefer Devouring Swarm because it can counter being AoE bombed.

Drain Essence is optional IMO. You can make the build work without it.

tinythinker

JackDaniell wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

I can appreciate how Blazing Spear and Reflective Light can give a harder hitting AOE, but it still seems that the extra AOE damage from Bat Swarm and gaining health/stamina from Drain Essence are critical parts of the video character's build and associated play style.

Naturally a vampire PC is going to have extra abilities (and weaknesses), but I wonder what the players of non-vamp characters do to get an edge in AOE damage or boost CC mitigation?

Unfortunately Templars can not play this kind of style to the same effect without Vampirism. Clouding swarm is just to good of an ultimate, and provides so much utility in a fight.

Without vampirism I think my best approach would be a much more tank/cc build. But with the Templar skill trees making an efficient CC build is not easy. I'm sure someone will come up with something very strong tho

It seems like lots of folks tend to go heavy armor/tank with templar and try to use gear enchants and potions to make up the magicka shortfall. A chance for enemies to become off-balance with Blinding Light (per patch 1.3) might help a little with CC.

JackDaniell wrote: »

You can quote me on this though, once 1.3 hits this game will change. So many different specs will now become much more viable. I hope to put out a 5/7 heavy armor build in the near future.

The only substantial change I saw for Templars in the 1.3 patch notes on the PTS involved allowing magicka regen during Blazing Shield. Is there something else or is that particular change really so significant? Or are you referring to changes to things like weapons/armor, such as the changes to sets of armor? I am guessing the latter, but I couldn't get passed the character creation screen the last time I tried to use templates to make high level characters s on the PTS, so I haven't encountered the new bonus system for those sets.

JackDaniell

tinythinker wrote: »

The only substantial change I saw for Templars in the 1.3 patch notes on the PTS involved allowing magicka regen during Blazing Shield. Is there something else or is that particular change really so significant? Or are you referring to changes to things like weapons/armor, such as the changes to sets of armor? I am guessing the latter, but I couldn't get passed the character creation screen the last time I tried to use templates to make high level characters s on the PTS, so I haven't encountered the new bonus system for those sets.

Yes I'm referring the the changes to all the game sets as well as the changes to the soft caps. These changes will make a high regen build viable and sustainable (as opposed to running a set like warlocks for magicka sustain).

timidobserver

JackDaniell wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

The only substantial change I saw for Templars in the 1.3 patch notes on the PTS involved allowing magicka regen during Blazing Shield. Is there something else or is that particular change really so significant? Or are you referring to changes to things like weapons/armor, such as the changes to sets of armor? I am guessing the latter, but I couldn't get passed the character creation screen the last time I tried to use templates to make high level characters s on the PTS, so I haven't encountered the new bonus system for those sets.

Yes I'm referring the the changes to all the game sets as well as the changes to the soft caps. These changes will make a high regen build viable and sustainable (as opposed to running a set like warlocks for magicka sustain).

I agree. The regen changes open up a lot of builds for us. In particular, radiant aura will be a much stronger ability.

JackDaniell

timidobserver wrote: »

I agree. The regen changes open up a lot of builds for us. In particular, radiant aura will be a much stronger ability.

Don't tell the masses that I can already hear the nerf train..

timidobserver

JackDaniell wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I agree. The regen changes open up a lot of builds for us. In particular, radiant aura will be a much stronger ability.

Don't tell the masses that I can already hear the nerf train..

It definitely adds some appeal to ditching vampire. The health regen debuff is going to be killer after the update, but Bat Swarm is so much better than either of our class ultimates.

I suppose that empowering sweep would be a viable alternative for someone focused on tanking/survival as opposed to damage.

DontBeAfraid

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hi guys, I'm Jack and I have been an avid Templar player for some time now. Allot of people hate on Templars, for many different reasons. I think this deters allot of people from playing a Templar, and choosing to pick a different class or re roll to one.

I believe that Templars are actually a great class, and I hope to help shine some light on how they can be. I think that maybe the reason so many people don't like a Templar damage output is because so many Templar's roll healer. Lots of belief is that puncturing sweeps or bitting jabs is a Templars only real option of dealing any good damage. Templars have allot more to them, and can do so much more than just be a healer or one skill spammer.

This thread is dedicated to Templar love! Please post and show what a Templar can really do and why you love playing one! I'll start it off with this video, I hope you enjoy!

http://youtu.be/KDPS1jJoyEs

terrible music for my taste..


but really well played - enjoyed watching!
finally someone who doesnt complain about "uh my class so weak" and instead you just go out and rock :-)

Mojomonkeyman

But... but he wants blazing hield buff...

Just kidding, he rocks!

hamon

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hi guys, I'm Jack and I have been an avid Templar player for some time now. Allot of people hate on Templars, for many different reasons. I think this deters allot of people from playing a Templar, and choosing to pick a different class or re roll to one.

I believe that Templars are actually a great class, and I hope to help shine some light on how they can be. I think that maybe the reason so many people don't like a Templar damage output is because so many Templar's roll healer. Lots of belief is that puncturing sweeps or bitting jabs is a Templars only real option of dealing any good damage. Templars have allot more to them, and can do so much more than just be a healer or one skill spammer.

This thread is dedicated to Templar love! Please post and show what a Templar can really do and why you love playing one! I'll start it off with this video, I hope you enjoy!

http://youtu.be/KDPS1jJoyEs

watched it and the critical things you use seem to be harness magika, batswarm and drain. none of which are templar abilities. the templar stuff you use. could easily be substituted for dk class stuff or nb or sorc to do the same but better.

for example. if you were a dk , and had to use green blood instead of honor the dead. and scales instead of blazing, talons instead of shards. you would be doing exactly what you did only better. you would even have the luxury of swapping the odd batswarm for banner should you feel like it.

talons would keep folk inside your batswarm much better as well making it much more lethal.

again if i was trying a similar thing on my sorc i would have crit surge running which would augment healing from bats and drain. these sort of builds relying on harness and vampire skills primarily are available to all and are done better using sorcs and DK than templars.

so to me what your video shows is that you can make a tmplar work in pvp using light and staffs. and vampire skills. but what it doesnt show is that you are still gonna be less good at it than a sorc or dk running a comparitive build.

if you want to show us something that highlights templars as being strong in their own right. make a build work as good as a build that doesnt rely on vamp but instead uses class ultimates and skills primarily. then compare that to one that uses primarily class skills from a dk or sorc.
However thats when you see the inherent weakness of templars versus sorcs or dk's.