Question about lore

rynth

through several threads I've brought up ideas for motifs, races, weapons, etc. Some things people liked, some didn't because of "lore".

So my thing is this, lore is just based off what has been in game content from past TES games and the books found in them or books written. So, really to make something lore all they have to do is create an book to read in game or give a back ground. I mean all this stuff is created by the idea(s) of people involved with making the games and its content, thus easily added when needed to make room for something new that hasn't been done.

And not only that but lore should not be set in stone (imo), the reason being is lore is based off of history and as in real life we find that at times what we thought was history or in game as lore was not always correct. Perhaps there is an off shoot of some race or a thought of race that was dead or hasn't been seen before that just hasn't been created and well is found now. I mean if its a question of stuff happening now to reflect the games that are done in the future timeline well again all that is needed is a book and now you have a history for it.

I kind of look at it like this, I was never a die hard fan of the TES games not to say they were bad or anything they just never really caught my fancy. But, I very much like ESO for its game play, environment, and character development. So I'm not so closed minded by new content nor narrow minded not meaning that in a negative way, but more in a way that I'm not so focused on the fact that since it wasn't in a TES game means it didn't happen. More of a third person perspective and thinking outside the box.

Tabbycat

You must not have been here for all the raging that went on when it was announced that Cyrodiil was not a jungle and Altmer buildings were not made of insect wings.

I suppose that ZOS can do anything they want with ESO and explain it all away with a Dragon-break.

rynth

lol no didn't pay attention to the forums them, but I know how things can get so caught up in looking at things one way that often times there are many ways to look at something and flexibility and open minded ness

Blackwidow

rynth wrote: »

through several threads I've brought up ideas for motifs, races, weapons, etc. Some things people liked, some didn't because of "lore".

A lot of that is fear this game will become WoW.

Truth is, Nirn is a big world.
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/220/b/b/planet_nirn___political__v1__by_hori873-d6h6lwd.png




All we know about is Tamriel. One continent. And truthfully we don't even know all about that.

So, anyone who says, "that should not be in the game because we have never heard of it", is misguided at best.

We should not change what we already know, but we don't know much about Nirn.

Tabbycat

@Blackwidow, you should point out that that map isn't official TES cannon.

rynth

true I wouldn't want this to be WoW either lol, but personally for me I see MMO's having the ability to add new things in game constantly so that it grows and thrives. Unlike on a regular single player game your pretty much stuck with what they created unless they create an add-on. But, an MMO now is something that as more "alive" I guess you could say and open to a lot more new possibilities,

Blackwidow

Tabbycat wrote: »

@Blackwidow, you should point out that that map isn't official TES cannon.

What do you mean?

If you do a search for the Nirn world, almost all maps agree with this.

rynth

perhaps we could just say that is the map that we may or may not know at this time (sort of like maps from the 1400's when most thought our world was flat)

Winke

Blackwidow wrote: »

rynth wrote: »

through several threads I've brought up ideas for motifs, races, weapons, etc. Some things people liked, some didn't because of "lore".

A lot of that is fear this game will become WoW.

Truth is, Nirn is a big world.
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/220/b/b/planet_nirn___political__v1__by_hori873-d6h6lwd.png




All we know about is Cyrodiil. One continent. And truthfully we don't even know all about that.

So, anyone who says, "that should not be in the game because we have never heard of it", is misguided at best.

We should not change what we already know, but we don't know much about Nirn.

i would love them to open up the rest on Nirn as the game goes on. since it has vast blanks in the lore history it would be rich ground for some creative additions to the TES world

Surinen

lies, lies, lies. there is only one Altmer lore. one Thalmor lore. one Auri-El governing over them.


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]

Tabbycat

Blackwidow wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

@Blackwidow, you should point out that that map isn't official TES cannon.

What do you mean?

If you do a search for the Nirn world, almost all maps agree with this.

Because BGS has never made a map like that. This is the only official map of Nirn that shows anything more than Tamriel: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:Tam-Maps-West_Tamriel.jpg

Blackwidow

Yes, but the books describe the other continents and where they are located, hence the world map.

So, I do consider it actual lore.

FYI, that map is just from an offshoot line of the main TES games. I think it's from Redguard, but I'm not sure.

JD2013

There's also lots of planes of Oblivion we can have to play around in.

Just saying :-D

Rosveen

Blackwidow wrote: »

Yes, but the books describe the other continents and where they are located, hence the world map.

So, I do consider it actual lore.

FYI, that map is just from an offshoot line of the main TES games. I think it's from Redguard, but I'm not sure.

We have no information about their size, shape or most geographical details. That map makes Akavir larger than Tamriel and shows political borders - it's complete fanfiction. It shows Aldmeris, which didn't actually exist as a separate continent.

Our only real sources of information (other than Lady N and MK's musings) are tiny and blurred Daggerfall globe showing Pyandonea and the map Tabby linked, showing what's left of Yokuda. Everything else is guesswork.

hk11

Blackwidow wrote: »

rynth wrote: »

through several threads I've brought up ideas for motifs, races, weapons, etc. Some things people liked, some didn't because of "lore".

A lot of that is fear this game will become WoW.

Truth is, Nirn is a big world.
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/220/b/b/planet_nirn___political__v1__by_hori873-d6h6lwd.png




All we know about is Cyrodiil. One continent. And truthfully we don't even know all about that.

So, anyone who says, "that should not be in the game because we have never heard of it", is misguided at best.

We should not change what we already know, but we don't know much about Nirn.

Im not a lore guy, but WoW has an nearly unreadable amount of lore available. So much so that there are actually cliff notes versions.

SFBryan18

Blackwidow wrote: »

All we know about is Cyrodiil. One continent. And truthfully we don't even know all about that.

Cyrodil is a country on the continent of Tamriel. Here are all the locations of Nirn:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nirn

And here are all the locations in the known universe:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Places

Tabbycat

hk11 wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

rynth wrote: »

through several threads I've brought up ideas for motifs, races, weapons, etc. Some things people liked, some didn't because of "lore".

A lot of that is fear this game will become WoW.

Truth is, Nirn is a big world.
*snip*

All we know about is Cyrodiil. One continent. And truthfully we don't even know all about that.

So, anyone who says, "that should not be in the game because we have never heard of it", is misguided at best.

We should not change what we already know, but we don't know much about Nirn.

Im not a lore guy, but WoW has an nearly unreadable amount of lore available. So much so that there are actually cliff notes versions.

TES has quite a bit of lore. A good place to search through some of it is here: http://www.imperial-library.info/

and here: http://forums.bethsoft.com/forum/16-elder-scrolls-lore/

shiva7663

rynth wrote: »

I kind of look at it like this, I was never a die hard fan of the TES games

demenzia

Blackwidow wrote: »

All we know about is Cyrodiil. One continent. And truthfully we don't even know all about that.

So, anyone who says, "that should not be in the game because we have never heard of it", is misguided at best.

We should not change what we already know, but we don't know much about Nirn.

Exactly so.

So far I have only one complaint related to lore. Lusty Argonian maid was written by Crassius Curio some centuries later, but I still keep finding it in ESO

shiva7663

I figure Crassius Curio probably plagiarized it from someone else.

Rodario

Damn, I knew something bugged me about the shape of Cyrodiil in ESO.

CheesyDaedra

shiva7663 wrote: »

I figure Crassius Curio probably plagiarized it from someone else.

And the game is probably happening under a Dragonbreak.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

DaedricCheese wrote: »

shiva7663 wrote: »

I figure Crassius Curio probably plagiarized it from someone else.

And the game is probably happening under a Dragonbreak.

Maaaaybe. There hasn't really been much anything to suggest that though.

@rynth
Lore is sacred to a handful of elder scrolls fans, so I get the reluctance to accept new things or bend the rules, but nothing will ever be set in stone. The franchise itself has been breaking its own lore since Daggerfall.

Csub

Guys, all this lore is awesome and I didn't know half of it but I am quite interested in it, so my question is: has there been any (un)official books released about TES history or just connected to Tamriel's past?Or just simply a good read? I was told I should read occasionally, which is true but I just can't be bothered with it. But this would interest me. (please spare me the comments about how much I suck for not reading :P)

Or a bit more off topic, but a Fallout one would also interest me:P

AngryNord

Blackwidow wrote: »

All we know about is Cyrodiil. One continent. And truthfully we don't even know all about that.

Cyrodiil is just a province. Tamriel is the continent.

Rosveen

Csub wrote: »

Guys, all this lore is awesome and I didn't know half of it but I am quite interested in it, so my question is: has there been any (un)official books released about TES history or just connected to Tamriel's past?Or just simply a good read? I was told I should read occasionally, which is true but I just can't be bothered with it. But this would interest me. (please spare me the comments about how much I suck for not reading :P)

Or a bit more off topic, but a Fallout one would also interest me:P

Look up the Infernal City and Lord of Souls by Greg Keyes. They're bridging the gap between Oblivion and Skyrim, focusing on the floating city which broke off of Clavicus Vile's realm. They also explain the Red Year and give an insight into Argonian society.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

hk11 wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

rynth wrote: »

through several threads I've brought up ideas for motifs, races, weapons, etc. Some things people liked, some didn't because of "lore".

A lot of that is fear this game will become WoW.

Truth is, Nirn is a big world.
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/220/b/b/planet_nirn___political__v1__by_hori873-d6h6lwd.png




All we know about is Cyrodiil. One continent. And truthfully we don't even know all about that.

So, anyone who says, "that should not be in the game because we have never heard of it", is misguided at best.

We should not change what we already know, but we don't know much about Nirn.

Im not a lore guy, but WoW has an nearly unreadable amount of lore available. So much so that there are actually cliff notes versions.

Indeed, his was just your typical gratuitous bit of WOW-hate from someone who clearly has no idea what they're talking about.

AlexDougherty

rynth wrote: »

through several threads I've brought up ideas for motifs, races, weapons, etc. Some things people liked, some didn't because of "lore".

So my thing is this, lore is just based off what has been in game content from past TES games and the books found in them or books written. So, really to make something lore all they have to do is create an book to read in game or give a back ground. I mean all this stuff is created by the idea(s) of people involved with making the games and its content, thus easily added when needed to make room for something new that hasn't been done.

And not only that but lore should not be set in stone (imo), the reason being is lore is based off of history and as in real life we find that at times what we thought was history or in game as lore was not always correct. Perhaps there is an off shoot of some race or a thought of race that was dead or hasn't been seen before that just hasn't been created and well is found now. I mean if its a question of stuff happening now to reflect the games that are done in the future timeline well again all that is needed is a book and now you have a history for it.

The lore has been slowly built upon over about thirty years, it has developed it's own character,and quirks. People don't want it being destroyed by one game.

Adding to that body of lore, most of us are fine with, provided it fits in with the character of the world, no superpowered Elves who are vulnerable to a rare ore for example. We don't mind minor edits to the lore, but abhor major rewrites of entire sections.

If a game is supposed to be in that world (Nirn in this case) then the game needs to conform to that world, not the other way around. If a rewrite is needed to make the game work, then somebody isn't paying attention, and before long it isn't Elder Scrolls, no matter what the Developers say.

Sihnfahl

shiva7663 wrote: »

I figure Crassius Curio probably plagiarized it from someone else.

No need to 'figure'. There's a book in ESO just to that effect.

Telenger The Artificer: "The Argonian Maid—An Oral Tradition"

Quick quote:

According to my research, "The Lusty Argonian Maid" has its origins in a long line of tales told by traveling bards, each with a slightly different title and premise, but the same end result: a female innocent succumbs to the charms of a dominant, married male character.

In the south, the tale was occasionally presented as "The Lusty Bosmeri," and "Two Moons for Sugar." I've also heard "Shornhelm's Lusty Orifice," "The Sandy Spear of Alik'r," and "The Maiden's Tight Hold" in taverns across the north and northwest.

Crassus Curio seems to have taken it one step further and made it a self-insert...

isengrimb16_ESO

Sihnfahl wrote: »

shiva7663 wrote: »

I figure Crassius Curio probably plagiarized it from someone else.

No need to 'figure'. There's a book in ESO just to that effect.

Telenger The Artificer: "The Argonian Maid—An Oral Tradition"

Quick quote:

According to my research, "The Lusty Argonian Maid" has its origins in a long line of tales told by traveling bards, each with a slightly different title and premise, but the same end result: a female innocent succumbs to the charms of a dominant, married male character.

In the south, the tale was occasionally presented as "The Lusty Bosmeri," and "Two Moons for Sugar." I've also heard "Shornhelm's Lusty Orifice," "The Sandy Spear of Alik'r," and "The Maiden's Tight Hold" in taverns across the north and northwest.

Crassus Curio seems to have taken it one step further and made it a self-insert...

I could see it starting in the lost misty mists of time as a series of mildly dirty jokes, and got expanded on (into stories, songs and plays) over time. Naughty jokes and double entendre NEVER go out of style.

It'd be like elephant jokes eventually winding up as a play about a very silly elephant, with the author of the most popular surviving version featuring himself as the guy with the fridge.

Csub

Rosveen wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

Guys, all this lore is awesome and I didn't know half of it but I am quite interested in it, so my question is: has there been any (un)official books released about TES history or just connected to Tamriel's past?Or just simply a good read? I was told I should read occasionally, which is true but I just can't be bothered with it. But this would interest me. (please spare me the comments about how much I suck for not reading :P)

Or a bit more off topic, but a Fallout one would also interest me:P

Look up the Infernal City and Lord of Souls by Greg Keyes. They're bridging the gap between Oblivion and Skyrim, focusing on the floating city which broke off of Clavicus Vile's realm. They also explain the Red Year and give an insight into Argonian society.

Thank you, looking them up now! :P