Overreaction to the veteran nerf announcement.

Dekkameron

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Lots of good accurate stuff

Very well said, i couldn't have put it better!

hamon

@‌ OP

While i accept your apology. I find it ironic you plea for emapthy for your personal circumstance as a reason to why you overreacted and were completely un-empathetic to anyone who wasn't taking your elitist hard line.

Perhaps if there is a lesson to be learned for you it's that you need to get out and engineer some form of proper human interaction away from your computer before you lose the ability to respect and be nice to other humans altogether.

I hope whatever is keeping you from doing this is temporary and not something too bad. I would encourage anyone where possible to place a much higher emphasis on real human interaction over virtual ones. Then ask themselves if they are treating folk the same as they would if they were standing in front of them as opposed to over the internet.

Alphashado

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Agreed. People should realise that -


•Firstly ZOS did not say VR would become easy-mode, they said it would be 'easier' to level. They may bring the difficulty down by an amount that is almost unnoticeable ! They may do something we didn't expect?

•Secondly, the forums have been filled with posts for ages now by people complaining about VR difficulty. There have been very few (almost none) posts where people have loved the whole VR experience. We (the general ESO population) have been moaning at ZOS for ages to 'fix' VR and now when they do, a mindless bandwagon all start moaning and complaining about it.

Lets at least wait till Monday, see what ZOS actually do to VR and then we can judge if it's a good or bad thing ! Any MMO is a living/on-going entity, it takes time to get it right and balance things. ZOS obviously have something in mind, lets at least wait to see if it works !

I don't agree with your second point at all.

It's well known that on any forum, no matter how vocal complaints seem to be, usually (not always) they still represent a tiny portion of the player base.

My guild has about 55 members playing ESO.

2 have huge problems with vet content, the rest are enjoying all aspects of the game, bugs and pvp cheaters aside.

I'm the only one that posts here, most of the rest only ever visit to read patch notes when I or a couple of other guildies who don't post here, link patch notes and anouncements on my guilds website.

Take a product, whether a game or say electrical item, the forums will always consist mainly of those having problems. Whether tech support issues or general issues with the product .

So you could have a product that sold 500,000 and most users could be really happy using that product and such people rarely go to the official forums to say how much they love it.

But a tiny percentage (for example 1000 out of half a million) not liking it for whatever reason will rightly go to the forum and try to get their issues heard. And from looking at the forum, it usually looks like there isn't a single person who owns the product that is actually happy with it. Meanwhile the vast majority of the 500,000 are to busy enjoying themselves.

Of course very occasionally the forum posters do represent the majority but its very very rare.

The people complaining about vet content are NOT the general ESO population, they are simply those players unhappy with that aspect of the game.

People who glance at the announcements and dev notes etc that are happily playing and don't regularly post (stars are meaningless to work out how often someone posts as many posted tons of feedback etc during beta), see the announcement about vet, are alarmed at what they read, hence rightly start posting they are against the idea.

They are not a mindless bandwagon anymore than those wanting the change are.

What you appear to be saying is those who have been vocal about the same things you don't like, represent true ESO players, but those who have been happily playing do not. It probably wasn't your intention but that is what it reads like to me.

As I've said loads in the past few days, most people (not all) who quit over vet content did so for various other reasons.

For example,

The amount of bugged quests
The various PvP issues
Them expecting ES6
Bots


and a load of other reasons. And when they reached vet level, tney simply didn't like what was offered. Yes vet levels are a steep learning curve, yes it's important to know in what situations you need to slot which class (no I am NOT telling people they need to learn to play), but for most, that learning curve after all the bugs etc was simply too much and they chose to quit.

I honestly think that if they halved the vet difficulty, while many players might come back and give it a go, the vast majority currently unhappy will still be unhappy hence those that might come back will soon leave again.

Vet content as it is, is not for everyone and Zenimax needs to address this. Certain classes need balancing for it etc.
Content needs to be added where grouping is not required

etc etc etc

But I don't think them slightly tweaking the overall difficulty will help anyone. Those that find it too hard will still find it too hard, and all that will happen is those currently enjoying it will start to feel dissapointed in the game.

I agree with your last point entirely, but don't forget Zenimax could have announced this next week when the change actually happens, and they know full well by announcing it a few days before, the forums would erupt and it could be that they did this on purpose to see how much opposition there would be.

I also expect if they announced it and such debates didnt take place, many many more alarm bells would be ringing for them.

Its true many many players have left ESO, only Zenimax knows the numbers still subbing. But that was bound to happen in an experimental game like this

They could have made another EQ or WOW but they chose not to. It was ridiculously hyped. It was released with a ton of problems. A combination of a lot of things drove most players away, I doubt most of them even reached vet content.

Now we have a very vocal group unhappy with vet content, rightly expressing how they feel, with many saying if things don't change they will leave.

However that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a greater number who like the current difficulty couldn't also decide to leave if things are made too easy.

I personally think ESO is big enough to cater for both groups.

We will find out soon exactly what they have in mind.

Your post has more opinions in it than anything I have ever seen..... and I would think that the amount of people that have left at VR 1-3 would be evidence enough that it needs some fixing. I was in 3 guilds between 200-500 players and 2 other ones, one with around 20 and the other 75...... almost everyone left the game at early VR and very few stayed to play.

This shows that something needs to change when it not only happens to one guild but all and most of the people on my friends list aswell.

You will soon realize that many more people leave due the nerf, history repeats itself always and we have the best example in WOW for this.

Most people at WOW leave during the process up to 90, as they feel bored and not in an MMO. The same will soon happen to ESO, people picked the game for the promises made by the designers and if these promises are broken they will simply put leave the game.

Besides that there is no content at VR 12 that is not trial or dungeon, so what are people supposed to do there? I don't know if you think there is some mega candy stick for you at VR12 or something, because there isn't.

You will have nothing to do there as soon you finish the VR zones.

I think you VASTLY overestimate the number of gamers seeking some kind of hard mode MMO. Don't you think if there were such a vast population of people craving such a game that every greedy game developer in the world would be tripping over each other in order to be the first one to tap into that hidden gem of wealth? Nobody with your opinion has been able to answer this question.

I don't disagree with that at all. However things are never that simple.

If I have a passion to make a product, I have a few choices.

For example

Do I just want to make something that's going to make me very rich very quick, not giving a dam about the player base so long as it sells well.

Do I want to make a huge amount of money, going for the easy option making a tried and tested format. Giving more of the same, knowing with a good IP it will sell in droves.

Or do I have a vision for a product I want to make, a product that won't follow the crowd, a product that I can still make a very good living from but obviously wont make anywhere near the money copying a tried and tested format would make.

Many people think everyone will always go for the biggest money, while most people do choose this root, luckily there are still people willing to follow their heart rather than their bank balance.

If you look at most games coming out, its more of the same. The big players don't want to invest in a risky new format, they would rather give us the next installment of what works, whether that's the next COD, Halo, Fifa, GTA, Sims or whatever.

Many games programmers have great idea's for games that could end up just as big as the current famous games, but most publishers are now so huge and money orientated, that they wont take any risks, hence these ideas will sadly hardly ever materialise.

Which is why in 10 years time you will probably have Fifa 2024, NBA 2024, PGA 2024, NBA 2024 and games that while might have a different name, are basically more COD etc.

A company wanting to make a game their way has to decide what they are aiming for.

Zenimax could have made an EQ / WOW clone with the TES IP and almost guarantee themselves a big hit. With all the usual stuff, a nice AH, tons of info on the UI etc etc etc.

They could have made it F2P from the start using the above format, knowing that they would make an absolute fortune from an online store etc.

But they didn't. They went for a sub based game and they followed their own ideas, ideas such as no AH that while many like not having one, many many others can't believe there isn't one.

Some worked on the original DAOC, and those people understand the sort of player that likes challenging content.

And from the start, Zenimax said they were going to be different, from the start they said there would be plenty of very challenging content for players wanting it.

It's hard to judge what the subs are like and its hard to judge what percentage of current subscribers will leave either if they keep content very difficult or if they make it too easy.

They don't need WOW number of subs to have a really successful game, they just need enough subs to keep making a profit after all bills are paid.

If it cost 200 million to develop, they probably recouped a nice portion of that with the initial sales, almost everyone I came into contact with initially, preorded the Imperial edition.

I wouldn't be surprised if they recouped at least half their cost with the preorders and you really don't need hundreds of thousands of subs to make the game pay.

What you do need with a sub based game, is players that are going to be happy to sub for many years.

I'm trying to make sure this doesn't look like I'm saying something I'm not meaning to imply.

There is a large player base that love challenging end game content and if they get it, are the sort of players who will sub for literally years.

Sure the casual player is a bigger player base by a long way, but, many such players when they complete all content (and if the content is easy, this won't take that long), will decide its no longer worth the monthly sub, maybe subbing for the odd month here and there.

It's the ones coming back day after day as they are loving the end game that will be the main ones subbing for years (and no matter how slowly people level, they will reach end game at some point)

So Zenimax knows full well they could dumb the game down a LOT, go F2P and make a fortune, but they are choosing not to. They are happy catering to the people currently playing.

Sure they are trying to tweak things so those not happy with vet content don't leave, but don't forget it was only a few weeks ago that they raised the NPC level from vet 1 to vet 5 to make PvP much harder. So they are catering to both crowds.

Players against the change are right to voice their concerns, but I think it will be such a slight change so as not to upset those enjoying vet, that come next week, this forum will be full of posts complaining they promised to make it easier but its still just as hard.

Not sure if I answered you or not, but I tried.

I feel like our conversation is borderline derailing this thread so I'll keep it brief. I appreciate all of your mostly valid points, but in a nutshell it really doesn't answer the question. Because even someone with a vision and less desire for maximum profits would still have done it by now. We are 2 decades into the MMO genre. Such a person would still need enough prophet to cover the design expenses. There are of course many smaller games being developed that cater to all sorts of niche crowds, but I believe we are talking about premier games here that cost many millions of dollars to create.

The best course of action imho would be for a company like ZoS to figure out a way to make their existing game seem equally appealing to both demographics. Even if it were one isolated zone designed purely for elite solo play with higher risk and better rewards. That is of course what they were aiming for with VR zones, but the mistake was making them 2/3s of the content.

Cogo

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I just wanted to apologize for overreacting to this announcement, and to anyone here that I might have offended in doing so. I realize that I go a bit too far when making general statements that are implied to encompass everyone who thinks the veteran zones could be toned down a bit. Honestly, that was not my intention.

Try to understand, I don't watch TV, I don't have an active Netflix subscription, and I have no interest in social mainstays due to personal complications (therefore not married, not seeing anyone anymore, don't have kids, don't really plan to), so when I am not reading, writing, coding, modding, working, or doing something outside (hiss! the sun!), I pretty much have the internet, and whatever online game I happen to be enjoying at the moment.

Beyond that, the Elder Scrolls genre is sacred ground for me. I have modded as a hobby since Morrowind (as Sgaileach1 and Phinix), and the idea of an online addition to the series was kind of a big deal for me. ZOS had very high expectations to meet and I feel they indeed have met them, which made it all the more distressing to hear such a turn around months into the public release of the game.

You and me have different interests in ESO, but we both share what ESO is.

Much respect to you for this. I hope you ignore trolls saying stuff.
Any "lol" you may get, ignore it.

If I could, 100 awesome to you.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Alphashado wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Agreed. People should realise that -


•Firstly ZOS did not say VR would become easy-mode, they said it would be 'easier' to level. They may bring the difficulty down by an amount that is almost unnoticeable ! They may do something we didn't expect?

•Secondly, the forums have been filled with posts for ages now by people complaining about VR difficulty. There have been very few (almost none) posts where people have loved the whole VR experience. We (the general ESO population) have been moaning at ZOS for ages to 'fix' VR and now when they do, a mindless bandwagon all start moaning and complaining about it.

Lets at least wait till Monday, see what ZOS actually do to VR and then we can judge if it's a good or bad thing ! Any MMO is a living/on-going entity, it takes time to get it right and balance things. ZOS obviously have something in mind, lets at least wait to see if it works !

I don't agree with your second point at all.

It's well known that on any forum, no matter how vocal complaints seem to be, usually (not always) they still represent a tiny portion of the player base.

My guild has about 55 members playing ESO.

2 have huge problems with vet content, the rest are enjoying all aspects of the game, bugs and pvp cheaters aside.

I'm the only one that posts here, most of the rest only ever visit to read patch notes when I or a couple of other guildies who don't post here, link patch notes and anouncements on my guilds website.

Take a product, whether a game or say electrical item, the forums will always consist mainly of those having problems. Whether tech support issues or general issues with the product .

So you could have a product that sold 500,000 and most users could be really happy using that product and such people rarely go to the official forums to say how much they love it.

But a tiny percentage (for example 1000 out of half a million) not liking it for whatever reason will rightly go to the forum and try to get their issues heard. And from looking at the forum, it usually looks like there isn't a single person who owns the product that is actually happy with it. Meanwhile the vast majority of the 500,000 are to busy enjoying themselves.

Of course very occasionally the forum posters do represent the majority but its very very rare.

The people complaining about vet content are NOT the general ESO population, they are simply those players unhappy with that aspect of the game.

People who glance at the announcements and dev notes etc that are happily playing and don't regularly post (stars are meaningless to work out how often someone posts as many posted tons of feedback etc during beta), see the announcement about vet, are alarmed at what they read, hence rightly start posting they are against the idea.

They are not a mindless bandwagon anymore than those wanting the change are.

What you appear to be saying is those who have been vocal about the same things you don't like, represent true ESO players, but those who have been happily playing do not. It probably wasn't your intention but that is what it reads like to me.

As I've said loads in the past few days, most people (not all) who quit over vet content did so for various other reasons.

For example,

The amount of bugged quests
The various PvP issues
Them expecting ES6
Bots


and a load of other reasons. And when they reached vet level, tney simply didn't like what was offered. Yes vet levels are a steep learning curve, yes it's important to know in what situations you need to slot which class (no I am NOT telling people they need to learn to play), but for most, that learning curve after all the bugs etc was simply too much and they chose to quit.

I honestly think that if they halved the vet difficulty, while many players might come back and give it a go, the vast majority currently unhappy will still be unhappy hence those that might come back will soon leave again.

Vet content as it is, is not for everyone and Zenimax needs to address this. Certain classes need balancing for it etc.
Content needs to be added where grouping is not required

etc etc etc

But I don't think them slightly tweaking the overall difficulty will help anyone. Those that find it too hard will still find it too hard, and all that will happen is those currently enjoying it will start to feel dissapointed in the game.

I agree with your last point entirely, but don't forget Zenimax could have announced this next week when the change actually happens, and they know full well by announcing it a few days before, the forums would erupt and it could be that they did this on purpose to see how much opposition there would be.

I also expect if they announced it and such debates didnt take place, many many more alarm bells would be ringing for them.

Its true many many players have left ESO, only Zenimax knows the numbers still subbing. But that was bound to happen in an experimental game like this

They could have made another EQ or WOW but they chose not to. It was ridiculously hyped. It was released with a ton of problems. A combination of a lot of things drove most players away, I doubt most of them even reached vet content.

Now we have a very vocal group unhappy with vet content, rightly expressing how they feel, with many saying if things don't change they will leave.

However that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a greater number who like the current difficulty couldn't also decide to leave if things are made too easy.

I personally think ESO is big enough to cater for both groups.

We will find out soon exactly what they have in mind.

Your post has more opinions in it than anything I have ever seen..... and I would think that the amount of people that have left at VR 1-3 would be evidence enough that it needs some fixing. I was in 3 guilds between 200-500 players and 2 other ones, one with around 20 and the other 75...... almost everyone left the game at early VR and very few stayed to play.

This shows that something needs to change when it not only happens to one guild but all and most of the people on my friends list aswell.

You will soon realize that many more people leave due the nerf, history repeats itself always and we have the best example in WOW for this.

Most people at WOW leave during the process up to 90, as they feel bored and not in an MMO. The same will soon happen to ESO, people picked the game for the promises made by the designers and if these promises are broken they will simply put leave the game.

Besides that there is no content at VR 12 that is not trial or dungeon, so what are people supposed to do there? I don't know if you think there is some mega candy stick for you at VR12 or something, because there isn't.

You will have nothing to do there as soon you finish the VR zones.

I think you VASTLY overestimate the number of gamers seeking some kind of hard mode MMO. Don't you think if there were such a vast population of people craving such a game that every greedy game developer in the world would be tripping over each other in order to be the first one to tap into that hidden gem of wealth? Nobody with your opinion has been able to answer this question.

I don't disagree with that at all. However things are never that simple.

If I have a passion to make a product, I have a few choices.

For example

Do I just want to make something that's going to make me very rich very quick, not giving a dam about the player base so long as it sells well.

Do I want to make a huge amount of money, going for the easy option making a tried and tested format. Giving more of the same, knowing with a good IP it will sell in droves.

Or do I have a vision for a product I want to make, a product that won't follow the crowd, a product that I can still make a very good living from but obviously wont make anywhere near the money copying a tried and tested format would make.

Many people think everyone will always go for the biggest money, while most people do choose this root, luckily there are still people willing to follow their heart rather than their bank balance.

If you look at most games coming out, its more of the same. The big players don't want to invest in a risky new format, they would rather give us the next installment of what works, whether that's the next COD, Halo, Fifa, GTA, Sims or whatever.

Many games programmers have great idea's for games that could end up just as big as the current famous games, but most publishers are now so huge and money orientated, that they wont take any risks, hence these ideas will sadly hardly ever materialise.

Which is why in 10 years time you will probably have Fifa 2024, NBA 2024, PGA 2024, NBA 2024 and games that while might have a different name, are basically more COD etc.

A company wanting to make a game their way has to decide what they are aiming for.

Zenimax could have made an EQ / WOW clone with the TES IP and almost guarantee themselves a big hit. With all the usual stuff, a nice AH, tons of info on the UI etc etc etc.

They could have made it F2P from the start using the above format, knowing that they would make an absolute fortune from an online store etc.

But they didn't. They went for a sub based game and they followed their own ideas, ideas such as no AH that while many like not having one, many many others can't believe there isn't one.

Some worked on the original DAOC, and those people understand the sort of player that likes challenging content.

And from the start, Zenimax said they were going to be different, from the start they said there would be plenty of very challenging content for players wanting it.

It's hard to judge what the subs are like and its hard to judge what percentage of current subscribers will leave either if they keep content very difficult or if they make it too easy.

They don't need WOW number of subs to have a really successful game, they just need enough subs to keep making a profit after all bills are paid.

If it cost 200 million to develop, they probably recouped a nice portion of that with the initial sales, almost everyone I came into contact with initially, preorded the Imperial edition.

I wouldn't be surprised if they recouped at least half their cost with the preorders and you really don't need hundreds of thousands of subs to make the game pay.

What you do need with a sub based game, is players that are going to be happy to sub for many years.

I'm trying to make sure this doesn't look like I'm saying something I'm not meaning to imply.

There is a large player base that love challenging end game content and if they get it, are the sort of players who will sub for literally years.

Sure the casual player is a bigger player base by a long way, but, many such players when they complete all content (and if the content is easy, this won't take that long), will decide its no longer worth the monthly sub, maybe subbing for the odd month here and there.

It's the ones coming back day after day as they are loving the end game that will be the main ones subbing for years (and no matter how slowly people level, they will reach end game at some point)

So Zenimax knows full well they could dumb the game down a LOT, go F2P and make a fortune, but they are choosing not to. They are happy catering to the people currently playing.

Sure they are trying to tweak things so those not happy with vet content don't leave, but don't forget it was only a few weeks ago that they raised the NPC level from vet 1 to vet 5 to make PvP much harder. So they are catering to both crowds.

Players against the change are right to voice their concerns, but I think it will be such a slight change so as not to upset those enjoying vet, that come next week, this forum will be full of posts complaining they promised to make it easier but its still just as hard.

Not sure if I answered you or not, but I tried.

I feel like our conversation is borderline derailing this thread so I'll keep it brief. I appreciate all of your mostly valid points, but in a nutshell it really doesn't answer the question. Because even someone with a vision and less desire for maximum profits would still have done it by now. We are 2 decades into the MMO genre. Such a person would still need enough prophet to cover the design expenses. There are of course many smaller games being developed that cater to all sorts of niche crowds, but I believe we are talking about premier games here that cost many millions of dollars to create.

The best course of action imho would be for a company like ZoS to figure out a way to make their existing game seem equally appealing to both demographics. Even if it were one isolated zone designed purely for elite solo play with higher risk and better rewards. That is of course what they were aiming for with VR zones, but the mistake was making them 2/3s of the content.

We know this isn't possible. Many games have taught us that those that want the easier content, also want all the same rewards.

RedMiniStapler

It's okay to be passionate about something, but not to the point that you'd put anyone down/ridicule anyone who disagree with your view. I'm sure zenimax is only reacting to the fact that they are losing many subscribers due to vet zone difficulty.

We don't know how zenimax will fix the issue, because they haven't posted their plans on the forum, so anything people are saying or thinking are all speculations. there are ways zenimax could do this as many suggested, such as fixing some broken classes or better loots with higher stats, but easiest fix for them would be tweak the mobs health and their damage output.

I hope zenimax could find solutions to fix this issue which could satisfy two groups, and we'll find it out tomorrow.

Mortosk

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

I just wanted to apologize for overreacting to this announcement, and to anyone here that I might have offended in doing so. I realize that I go a bit too far when making general statements that are implied to encompass everyone who thinks the veteran zones could be toned down a bit. Honestly, that was not my intention.

Try to understand, I don't watch TV, I don't have an active Netflix subscription, and I have no interest in social mainstays due to personal complications (therefore not married, not seeing anyone anymore, don't have kids, don't really plan to), so when I am not reading, writing, coding, modding, working, or doing something outside (hiss! the sun!), I pretty much have the internet, and whatever online game I happen to be enjoying at the moment.

Beyond that, the Elder Scrolls genre is sacred ground for me. I have modded as a hobby since Morrowind (as Sgaileach1 and Phinix), and the idea of an online addition to the series was kind of a big deal for me. ZOS had very high expectations to meet and I feel they indeed have met them, which made it all the more distressing to hear such a turn around months into the public release of the game.

It just gave me a sense that maybe the company was a little desperate to be considering such a radical restructuring of the core design model of the game this far in, particularly when the split in the community seems about 50/50 in the issue.

But mainly, I was immediately reminded of all the online titles I have enjoyed over the last decade ruined by the instant gratification crowd demanding nerfs and handouts for everything with no effort required, skipping content, rushing to the boss, leaving people behind, and I guess it just struck a nerve.

In the end after more careful contemplation (and getting trolled a ton on the forums which I probably deserved) the solution I came up with was to simply add a toggle where you could play the content either as it is now, in a phase group with all the other people who choose to, or as they are planning to adjust it on Monday, with all the people who choose to play it that way.

They could possibly change the loot tables a bit to have a chance of more or better drops if you opt to play it as it is, as an incentive to try the content as originally intended. Maybe they could give you a better drop rate on enchanting glyphs for example, so they didn't have to make it too much easier to level.

Anyway, I think that is the best way to go. It requires minimal effort and dev time, and avoids the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario of upsetting one half of the community or the other.

So again, sorry if I offended anyone, and I hope to see the game continue to improve. Even if they do opt to go through with this change globally, I trust them enough to be fair about it so I will give them the benefit of the doubt and stick with it, because I really do love the game.

On the upside, it WILL be nice to see more people around again. If this brings back good people that aren't of that dreaded mindset I described (the WoW crowd) who maybe didn't feel like becoming elite gamers just to play the content, then I welcome it.

I would hate to think I had contributed to driving anyone away, which is mostly why I wanted to post this.

So you want an Inferno difficulty toggle button basically?

That would be interesting I suppose, but it would require a lot more than minimal effort. They would have to create 2 difficulty tiers for all future content and figure out how to handle the phasing aspects of it. It would also further limit the population in already low pop areas.

Nazon_Katts

The pity is, if they only could get their phasing tech running, a difficulty toggle/phase would be possible. It's the one feature that could have taken the MMO experience to whole new level. Here's still hoping to see it in action one day.

Evergnar

I'm just still laughing at the fact that nothing has actually even happened yet. I get that people are passionate about the game but I'll be wearing my riot gear tomorrow regardless.

Caroloces

Op,
I appreciate your sincerity and your devotion to the game.

What end content needs is a spectrum of playability that every devoted player could find enjoyable, a meaningful storyline that provides a reason for being in the ES world even in the most difficult encounters, and commensurate rewards for every level of difficulty.

This simple formula, I believe, could make ESO the preeminent MMORPG on the market today.

Blackwidow

I told you a good night's sleep would fix everything!

michael21

Maybe more veteran point gains, barely easier since alot of people solo, have the loot be better for veteran zones, and make PVP a better choice for leveling vet! This is my idea at making vet content better.
Alot of people really just enjoy PVP, and dont think they should be forced to PVE so they can PVP. It makes sense to make PVP better for leveling. Nobody has to PVP, and PVE would be better for leveling too, but at least the PVPers could enjoy their leveling. It still wouldn't be as fast PVE, but would be adequate enough.
Basically this would make leveling vet easier and more fun, which it needs to be imo. Going through a whole zone to level once is awful imo, so i grinded lol. My lil bro just unsubbed beacuse hes vet 2, hates the leveling, and cant PVP to get to high enough rank quickly.

michael21

BTW i dont really want it to be easier. making loot gains better and leveling more quickly would attract enough people to the zones to provide enough people for support at bosses and dolmens and that stuff, so it would probably be easier because of the volume of people.

Laura

Phantax wrote: »

Agreed. People should realise that -


•Firstly ZOS did not say VR would become easy-mode, they said it would be 'easier' to level. They may bring the difficulty down by an amount that is almost unnoticeable ! They may do something we didn't expect?

•Secondly, the forums have been filled with posts for ages now by people complaining about VR difficulty. There have been very few (almost none) posts where people have loved the whole VR experience. We (the general ESO population) have been moaning at ZOS for ages to 'fix' VR and now when they do, a mindless bandwagon all start moaning and complaining about it.

Lets at least wait till Monday, see what ZOS actually do to VR and then we can judge if it's a good or bad thing ! Any MMO is a living/on-going entity, it takes time to get it right and balance things. ZOS obviously have something in mind, lets at least wait to see if it works !

I don't think nerfing the difficulty is a fix for most people. When I told my friends (all 12 of them that quit before they got to vr8) they said "well that wasn't the problem, is it still a grindy mind numbing mess?"

The problem is that peoples builds that once worked didn't work in veteran content - balance issue.

No DK or Sorc is going to tell you veteran content is hard. So why not fix the actual problem? classes and weapon builds?

no this is a cheap lazy blanket fix. THAT is the problem.

Laura

hamon wrote: »

@‌ OP

While i accept your apology. I find it ironic you plea for emapthy for your personal circumstance as a reason to why you overreacted and were completely un-empathetic to anyone who wasn't taking your elitist hard line.

Perhaps if there is a lesson to be learned for you it's that you need to get out and engineer some form of proper human interaction away from your computer before you lose the ability to respect and be nice to other humans altogether.

I hope whatever is keeping you from doing this is temporary and not something too bad. I would encourage anyone where possible to place a much higher emphasis on real human interaction over virtual ones. Then ask themselves if they are treating folk the same as they would if they were standing in front of them as opposed to over the internet.

And here comes hamon to ham it up.

Ignore this guy OP. You apologized that is way more than most (and this guy) would ever do. Haman has pretty much done the exact same thing constantly in the past only on the other end of the spectrum. I don't think he was looking for a life lesson especially from someone who has literally done the exact same thing.

I am sort of disturbed that some people are patronizing him after he apologized.


I, for one, am floored by it and happy to see it.

hamon

Laura wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

@‌ OP

While i accept your apology. I find it ironic you plea for emapthy for your personal circumstance as a reason to why you overreacted and were completely un-empathetic to anyone who wasn't taking your elitist hard line.

Perhaps if there is a lesson to be learned for you it's that you need to get out and engineer some form of proper human interaction away from your computer before you lose the ability to respect and be nice to other humans altogether.

I hope whatever is keeping you from doing this is temporary and not something too bad. I would encourage anyone where possible to place a much higher emphasis on real human interaction over virtual ones. Then ask themselves if they are treating folk the same as they would if they were standing in front of them as opposed to over the internet.

And here comes hamon to ham it up.

Ignore this guy OP. You apologized that is way more than most (and this guy) would ever do. Haman has pretty much done the exact same thing constantly in the past only on the other end of the spectrum. I don't think he was looking for a life lesson especially from someone who has literally done the exact same thing.

I am sort of disturbed that some people are patronizing him after he apologized.


I, for one, am floored by it and happy to see it.

patronizing would be to go " there there how awesome you are for apologizing" which i didnt as that would be disrespectfull. I accepted his apology as you can clearly see and simply offered what i felt was good advice for ANYONE who gets so tied up in a computer game they act horrible to other players. thats never right nor is there an excuse thats valid for it.

As for his humility thats to be respected . You could perhaps learn alot from him in that respect.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

hamon wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

@‌ OP

While i accept your apology. I find it ironic you plea for emapthy for your personal circumstance as a reason to why you overreacted and were completely un-empathetic to anyone who wasn't taking your elitist hard line.

Perhaps if there is a lesson to be learned for you it's that you need to get out and engineer some form of proper human interaction away from your computer before you lose the ability to respect and be nice to other humans altogether.

I hope whatever is keeping you from doing this is temporary and not something too bad. I would encourage anyone where possible to place a much higher emphasis on real human interaction over virtual ones. Then ask themselves if they are treating folk the same as they would if they were standing in front of them as opposed to over the internet.

And here comes hamon to ham it up.

Ignore this guy OP. You apologized that is way more than most (and this guy) would ever do. Haman has pretty much done the exact same thing constantly in the past only on the other end of the spectrum. I don't think he was looking for a life lesson especially from someone who has literally done the exact same thing.

I am sort of disturbed that some people are patronizing him after he apologized.


I, for one, am floored by it and happy to see it.

patronizing would be to go " there there how awesome you are for apologizing" which i didnt as that would be disrespectfull. I accepted his apology as you can clearly see and simply offered what i felt was good advice for ANYONE who gets so tied up in a computer game they act horrible to other players. thats never right nor is there an excuse thats valid for it.

As for his humility thats to be respected . You could perhaps learn alot from him in that respect.

Not to totally derail this thread but, he apologized to those he offended with things he said while overreacting. You accepted. Which I assume means you were offended by something he said.

So I guess I would encourage you to take some of your own advice, if things random people you don't know are posting on a video game forum are offending you, spending some more time with real people might not be a bad idea.

Ojustaboo

Laura wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Agreed. People should realise that -


•Firstly ZOS did not say VR would become easy-mode, they said it would be 'easier' to level. They may bring the difficulty down by an amount that is almost unnoticeable ! They may do something we didn't expect?

•Secondly, the forums have been filled with posts for ages now by people complaining about VR difficulty. There have been very few (almost none) posts where people have loved the whole VR experience. We (the general ESO population) have been moaning at ZOS for ages to 'fix' VR and now when they do, a mindless bandwagon all start moaning and complaining about it.

Lets at least wait till Monday, see what ZOS actually do to VR and then we can judge if it's a good or bad thing ! Any MMO is a living/on-going entity, it takes time to get it right and balance things. ZOS obviously have something in mind, lets at least wait to see if it works !

I don't think nerfing the difficulty is a fix for most people. When I told my friends (all 12 of them that quit before they got to vr8) they said "well that wasn't the problem, is it still a grindy mind numbing mess?"

The problem is that peoples builds that once worked didn't work in veteran content - balance issue.

No DK or Sorc is going to tell you veteran content is hard. So why not fix the actual problem? classes and weapon builds?

no this is a cheap lazy blanket fix. THAT is the problem.

Quoting the above as they put in a short paragraph what I've spent days trying to say

Lowering the difficulty by any amount whether slight or drastic, will not help almost anyone that had problems with vet content.

I agree with everything Laura says

Tabbycat

The best thing anyone can do is to never take anything anyone says anonymously on a forum too seriously. A lot of people rant about things on a forum because they care very passionately about whatever their chosen topic is and want others to see their point of view. Unfortunately, others tend to see such posts as attacks on their personal selves and react in a defensive manner. That's when you get the heated bickering back and forth that degenerates into name calling. Most people would never behave that badly in real life where they have to face the consequences of their actions.

steveb16_ESO46

Danisheraser wrote: »

Overreaction!?? Making vet content for *** is overreaction. Every stupid mmo company did it, and now eso is going the same route. It started out good and ends up terribly. What Zenimax needs to do is to balance the rewards for doing veteran content while giving players more options to reach v12. But don't make it easier. People have to understand that reaching highest level requires time and dedication.
By doing the vereran zones, players are still rewarded with skillpoints (though not enough) and that should in itself be difficult. Not everyone should be able to do that.

No amount of rewards will get people to do stuff that they don't like doing. Good call Zenimax.

Guppet

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Danisheraser wrote: »

Overreaction!?? Making vet content for *** is overreaction. Every stupid mmo company did it, and now eso is going the same route. It started out good and ends up terribly. What Zenimax needs to do is to balance the rewards for doing veteran content while giving players more options to reach v12. But don't make it easier. People have to understand that reaching highest level requires time and dedication.
By doing the vereran zones, players are still rewarded with skillpoints (though not enough) and that should in itself be difficult. Not everyone should be able to do that.

No amount of rewards will get people to do stuff that they don't like doing. Good call Zenimax.

You do know that most raiders hated the raids they were farming for gear right. They may have liked them at the start, but by the end of the lifespan of any given raid, most raiders were glad to see the back of each raid. They did it to gear themselves and others up. So purely for the rewards at the end.

If you offer enough of a reward, people will do practically enything in an MMO.