content too easy? simple fixes for free

Armianlee

hamon wrote: »

Armianlee wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

I love the argument against this:

- Why would I should I be *forced* to pick a weaker build or intentionally gimp myself in order to face more difficult opponents?

When in counterpoint, you have:

- Why must I be *forced* to use absolutely optimal classes, builds and armor in order to have a playable game?



It's been brought up more than once, when I would make a complaint about the difficulty my archer/nightblade has experienced. "Oh, my sorcerer doesnt' have those problems". Or better, "If you just went destro staff/light armor, you would have no problem".

Balance is a two-fold issue: part of it is the character, and part of it is the world. They've been changing the characters. Now they are changing the world.

My point exactly...

The difficulty needs to be dropped some to accommodate those that need that extra help, but not so much that others have to get naked to feel a challenge.

What really needs to happen is buffs to a certain couple classes.

yes having to get naked is at the extreme end of self handicapping for extra difficulty, so using that as the basis for dissagreeing is kinda lame. I said that COULD be for the ultra hardcore. there are lots of incremental things to use before that.

Okay, so, I am a VR8 Sword and Board Templar. I never use buffs ( I generally forget about them) and am making it through the Vet content now. I am by no means an elite MMO player, but if the difficulty is lowered significantly I will be forced to go it naked (or wear some old ass armour and forgo the stuff I spent time crafting) to have the tense, exciting combat I currently have.

Seriously, I am not sure why we are arguing. I am agreeing that it needs to be dropped some, I'd like to see more population in the VR levels. I just don't think it is fair to make it so easy a caveman can do it.

Ser Lobo

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

- Why must I be *forced* to use absolutely optimal classes, builds and armor in order to have a playable game?

At no point has anyone (who has the slightest inkling of what they're doing) said this.

You may not be able to stack your bar with all healing abilities and expect to survive against a Storm Atronach. But the notion that some classes/weapons/armors can't compete in the current environment is flat-out wrong. My main is a VR12 dual-wield/bow medium armor Nightblade. I soloed all VR content that didn't require a group to complete (i.e. everything except public dungeons, world bosses and dolmens), and I did just fine, thank you.

I'm not arguing you did. I'm doing just fine, too.

The problem is, I'm stubborn. I got to 40, and was getting disheartened. I hit the VR1 wall, and died left and right. But kept trucking, until I learned to play. Which is the quickest way to call it what it is.

But how many didn't, or won't? How many in your own guild hit that VR wall and was like 'this isn't fun'. I know many in mine.

They could have pressed on. They could have adapted. They could have stuck it out. But they didn't. And they won't. Because many, many more players are casual, part timers.

I've been playing MMO's for a long time, and faced more than one 'impossible' circumstance. It's different for me.

But do I think it's right to force so many others into the same situation? Maybe it would be good for my ego, or good for their character, but it would cost the game.

There are hardcore games out there. ESO, I don't believe, is one of them.

hamon

Armianlee wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Armianlee wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

I love the argument against this:

- Why would I should I be *forced* to pick a weaker build or intentionally gimp myself in order to face more difficult opponents?

When in counterpoint, you have:

- Why must I be *forced* to use absolutely optimal classes, builds and armor in order to have a playable game?



It's been brought up more than once, when I would make a complaint about the difficulty my archer/nightblade has experienced. "Oh, my sorcerer doesnt' have those problems". Or better, "If you just went destro staff/light armor, you would have no problem".

Balance is a two-fold issue: part of it is the character, and part of it is the world. They've been changing the characters. Now they are changing the world.

My point exactly...

The difficulty needs to be dropped some to accommodate those that need that extra help, but not so much that others have to get naked to feel a challenge.

What really needs to happen is buffs to a certain couple classes.

yes having to get naked is at the extreme end of self handicapping for extra difficulty, so using that as the basis for dissagreeing is kinda lame. I said that COULD be for the ultra hardcore. there are lots of incremental things to use before that.

Okay, so, I am a VR8 Sword and Board Templar. I never use buffs ( I generally forget about them) and am making it through the Vet content now. I am by no means an elite MMO player, but if the difficulty is lowered significantly I will be forced to go it naked (or wear some old ass armour and forgo the stuff I spent time crafting) to have the tense, exciting combat I currently have.

Seriously, I am not sure why we are arguing. I am agreeing that it needs to be dropped some, I'd like to see more population in the VR levels. I just don't think it is fair to make it so easy a caveman can do it.

well lets say you did have to use lower lvl armour to maintain your tense fighting you enjoy. would that be so bad? lower vet armour even looks exactly the same and you save money on upgrades... how would that be such a travesty to you?

and would it be a small price to pay to keep lots of folk playing the game which benefits us all.

Anastasia

hamon wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

+ 1 insightful.

hamon wrote: »

Now all these things and more are available to all for free. and the bonus is people who actually want it a bit easier can enjoy the game as well.. this breeds a healthy in game population which is win-win for everyone.

Indeed. I re-call ZOS advertising "play how you want."


If I wanted some action-slasher game, I'd go play a game more suited for that genre.

You know the 'play how you want' goes both ways right? It applies to everyone, yes?? Not just the people who want to use stupid builds and be bad. It applies to the leet super dudes with calculators and pocket protectors running equations to figure out how to increase their dps by .025%

And that's the problem. Everyone can throw the quote around and use it for themselves but the quote itself is dumb, and Impossible. Some people wont be able to 'play the way you want' and the only people who are happy are the people who are currently playing the way they want.

well it becomes a choice then. do you accept that by nature if you are a min maxer you are essentially trying to make it as easy as possible. which is fine if thats your thing... I only have a problem when min maxers demand that everything is hard for them which would by logical extention make it insanely hard for anyone who isn't a min maxer.

so the choice is to either min max but accept you will make it easier, or if you want it too be tough keep the min max stuff for raids etc and just goof around naked or use less op builds the rest of the time

---

Its literally like two majorly different languages -- and communication or ability to understand is completely a no go. o-0

ExiledKhallisi

I play the "weakest" class in the game and it really doesn't matter what weapon Iuse..iI could take my weapon off and do just fine.

I am vr12 and have cleared all 3 factions and craglorn/trials.

To be honest this nerf to game difficulty may actually finally put the last nails in the coffin for me. They need to stop catering to the persistent stream of whiners on the forums. I play the weakest class. And I play how I want.

I also wat h other players around me in the higher. Et zones while farming...they ignore indicators to get out of the way. They stand in fire, they get knocked down by easily bluckex uppercuts this is a learn to play issue. The problem is all the people who grinded to vr12 the easy way (craglorn face rolling in raid parties) who barely know their class....

Dissapointed fan...

Soloeus

hamon wrote: »

lets say after they re-balance vet mode you find it too easy. this seems to scare our super duper players. "zomg give me a badge cos i done it before care bear mode" etc etc

heres a self help guide about how to make content thats too easy more difficult.

1. roll the hardest class - play templar, that should be harder for anyone who hasnt already tried
2. use melee - put the staffs in the bag and use a stamina build without even changing your attributes. you will hit like a wet noodle which makes killing more tricky. you can also have the advantage of pulling out the staffs to beat anything that proves too hard should it be a problem
3. wear armour vastly lower level- again simple self difficulty slider, you can have your uber armour in the bag for anything you need to take seriously
4. refuse to use food or potions- simple and saves money , win win

hell if you want to go all out do it naked and make a video showing the world your skills. I can respect that much more than anyone who simply boasts about how they like it tough . but then plays nothing but the most OP class using the highest power build and abilities.

Now all these things and more are available to all for free. and the bonus is people who actually want it a bit easier can enjoy the game as well.. this breeds a healthy in game population which is win-win for everyone.

for months now the L2P brigade have been telling everyone smuggly how they need to adapt to vet mode or go play something else.
Well lets see them adapt and make things as hard as they choose. I'm saying its always available to make things harder for yourself. be the guy who solos the storm atronach in his underwear , post the video and i,ll give you a well deserved awesome for that. rather than just play with everything stacked in your favor and brag its not hard enough.

I agree with the entirety of this post and have been posting similar myself in several threads.

Anilahation

Tfw I already did all this but number 1

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

I still maintain that if med and heavy armor and melee skills were balanced to compete with light armor and spell damage most of the VR problems would have been avoided in the first place.

If the melee, heavy armor Templar or the med armor, duel wielding NB could do similar damage to a stick wielding, light armored sorc/dk the vet zones would seem like less of a drag.

Loco_Mofo

Play the way you want.

Silly thread.

Ninnghizhidda

For all those who are arguing about VR content being right or even "easy", and even that they can't find "any challenge".

I will wholeheartedly agree that any player has the right to demand "challenging stuff", even stuff that is indeed extremely hard and requires split second reactions and the most highly honed skills and knowledge of the game mechanics. Fair enough.

The huge difference though is: you do NOT put THAT stuff in the "general public, open world areas". You do NOT virtually fill 2/3s of the game content with it (OK, this is an exaggeration).

What you do is this: You have "special" areas, dungeons, raids, trials, call them what you will. In those areas all the players who enjoy the "ultimate challenge" can merrily test their skills and prowess and feel proud for having improved their dps by that elusive +0.1% or that they completed the whole thing in 3 seconds less. Absolutely great, this would make a really superb game.

You can call these areas "hard modes", "impossible difficulty modes", whatever you fancy. They are there. You can choose and enter them voluntary, for that extra challenge.

Just keep the other 2/3s of the game reasonable and accessible to the "general public". Nope, NOT too easy either, no one really fancies going through 500 quests literally sneezing at mobs and bosses and they plop dead.

Also, the "general public" areas should be accessible to those players who choose to solo. At least most of the "trash mobs" and normal mobs required for quests. It should be possible, not a faceroll. Obviously, getting in a party would make things easier, and faster. But that is what parties are for, yes? You don't make it impossible or very hard in "solo mode" so that "party mode" might be just about right. There is a difference there, a fine line.

These simple facts are true in most MMOs. Why they can not be in ESO? If anything I would expect ESO to actually be super successful in this particular department, and it has been such a great disappointment to find out it failed (so far). Hopefully things will start to change next week, and onwards.

brandon

hamon wrote: »

heres some comments to give you a flavor of what the forum rambos who want it all tough and manly feel about it.

quote brandon
I hate most mmo players for this reason. Everything needs to die in 1 hit for them to have fun. Then they complain about something else which also gets nerfed over and over again. Finally they leave anyway leaving everyone else with a nerfed to hell game to play. They then go and do it to another game.

nice attitude brandon

quote zerotolerance <--- the name speaks volumes
It's bad but always happens. The noobs always get their way 'cos they can give out here while in normal life they can only sulk in the corner and cry on their momma's lap instead of demanding to win everything they engage in without even trying. Lucky them I guess....

you sound like a nice guy too

these people are just so nice

What I said is true.
@hamon

Hilgara

I want to beat the game and meet the challenge set by the developers. I want the content to require me to be optimal or close to. The challenge of finding what is optimal is an enormous part of the fun of the game.

Shaun98ca2

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

For all those who are arguing about VR content being right or even "easy", and even that they can't find "any challenge".

I will wholeheartedly agree that any player has the right to demand "challenging stuff", even stuff that is indeed extremely hard and requires split second reactions and the most highly honed skills and knowledge of the game mechanics. Fair enough.

The huge difference though is: you do NOT put THAT stuff in the "general public, open world areas". You do NOT virtually fill 2/3s of the game content with it (OK, this is an exaggeration).

What you do is this: You have "special" areas, dungeons, raids, trials, call them what you will. In those areas all the players who enjoy the "ultimate challenge" can merrily test their skills and prowess and feel proud for having improved their dps by that elusive +0.1% or that they completed the whole thing in 3 seconds less. Absolutely great, this would make a really superb game.

You can call these areas "hard modes", "impossible difficulty modes", whatever you fancy. They are there. You can choose and enter them voluntary, for that extra challenge.

Just keep the other 2/3s of the game reasonable and accessible to the "general public". Nope, NOT too easy either, no one really fancies going through 500 quests literally sneezing at mobs and bosses and they plop dead.

Also, the "general public" areas should be accessible to those players who choose to solo. At least most of the "trash mobs" and normal mobs required for quests. It should be possible, not a faceroll. Obviously, getting in a party would make things easier, and faster. But that is what parties are for, yes? You don't make it impossible or very hard in "solo mode" so that "party mode" might be just about right. There is a difference there, a fine line.

These simple facts are true in most MMOs. Why they can not be in ESO? If anything I would expect ESO to actually be super successful in this particular department, and it has been such a great disappointment to find out it failed (so far). Hopefully things will start to change next week, and onwards.

UGH but now you got to reward them.....sigh..........maybe the Twilight Bracelet will make them happy????

Google it.

themizario

hamon wrote: »

lets say after they re-balance vet mode you find it too easy. this seems to scare our super duper players. "zomg give me a badge cos i done it before care bear mode" etc etc

heres a self help guide about how to make content thats too easy more difficult.

1. roll the hardest class - play templar, that should be harder for anyone who hasnt already tried
2. use melee - put the staffs in the bag and use a stamina build without even changing your attributes. you will hit like a wet noodle which makes killing more tricky. you can also have the advantage of pulling out the staffs to beat anything that proves too hard should it be a problem
3. wear armour vastly lower level- again simple self difficulty slider, you can have your uber armour in the bag for anything you need to take seriously
4. refuse to use food or potions- simple and saves money , win win

hell if you want to go all out do it naked and make a video showing the world your skills. I can respect that much more than anyone who simply boasts about how they like it tough . but then plays nothing but the most OP class using the highest power build and abilities.

Now all these things and more are available to all for free. and the bonus is people who actually want it a bit easier can enjoy the game as well.. this breeds a healthy in game population which is win-win for everyone.

for months now the L2P brigade have been telling everyone smuggly how they need to adapt to vet mode or go play something else.
Well lets see them adapt and make things as hard as they choose. I'm saying its always available to make things harder for yourself. be the guy who solos the storm atronach in his underwear , post the video and i,ll give you a well deserved awesome for that. rather than just play with everything stacked in your favor and brag its not hard enough.

Wet noodle Bwahahaha but so true, everyone should be happy, scalable this way.

Ninnghizhidda

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

UGH but now you got to reward them.....sigh..........maybe the Twilight Bracelet will make them happy????

Google it.

Hmm, if you meant about rewards for "hard modes" and those that complete them, it would not be too difficult. "Uber gear" is usually reserved for such challenging instances / content. Or particular materials of high value that could also be used for gear creation / improvement. This would also fit nicely with the great crafting system ESO already has. Maybe you could acquire special materials to craft "unique" gear or be able to add unique / extra features / traits to crafted gear / sets.

Also "achievement titles" could be earned. Extra gold given. And so on. There is a variety of ways you can actually have to reward people completing "hard stuff" to make them feel happy and proud.

As for the "general public" going through the "normal" content and doing the "normal" quests and such for leveling or just for the experience it is also not too hard to match reward with "difficulty". And no one would expect exceptional rewards for doing "normal grind / story / progression" stuff. However, right now, for example, the rewards you obtain going through the VR zones and quests are a farce. How else would you describe, for example, the 50 odd gold you receive for completing a quest that took you through scores of irritatingly (and out of proportion) hard "trash mobs"? And... never mind what you receive for Cadwell's quests. Just saying.

SaibotLiu

There are plenty of games on the market that offer a trivial leveling experience, with no challenge. This is the norm. I don't feel bad for players like myself who enjoy a challenge. Dumbing down MMO's is nothing new to me, it shouldn't be to any experienced player, were used to it. I actually feel sorry for the cry babies. They'll never know what it feels like to actually work hard and accomplish something, to persevere, to be stubborn, and unrelenting. I see it all the time at my job, there are very select few "achievers" and then there's there is a large group that just wants to show up, get paid, and *** off with minimal effort.

That really is a great attitude. I just wanna log in and wreck ***. I don't actually want to have to do anything that may test me mentally or tax my wits, I wasn't built for that.

I didn't like the concept of vet ranks, in fact I only recently started doing them. I did not put off doing them because of I was scared of a challenge, it's because going back and doing other factions content felt stupid to me. This "fix" isn't going to do anything to change that. The reason I disagree with the change, is it perpetuates a disappointing precedent in gaming. Call it a L2P issue, I call it a cultural issue.

RazielSR

Another tips:

-Play with sunglasses at night.
-Play staring at the sun at day.
-Play in your work.
-Do not eat for one week and play 24 hrs non stop.
-Tie one hand and one feet.
-Play listening Justin Bieber.
-Play with a coat in the summer.

etc, etc

Ninnghizhidda

SaibotLiu wrote: »

There are plenty of games on the market that offer a trivial leveling experience, with no challenge. This is the norm. I don't feel bad for players like myself who enjoy a challenge. Dumbing down MMO's is nothing new to me, it shouldn't be to any experienced player, were used to it. I actually feel sorry for the cry babies. They'll never know what it feels like to actually work hard and accomplish something, to persevere, to be stubborn, and unrelenting. I see it all the time at my job, there are very select few "achievers" and then there's there is a large group that just wants to show up, get paid, and *** off with minimal effort.

That really is a great attitude. I just wanna log in and wreck ***. I don't actually want to have to do anything that may test me mentally or tax my wits, I wasn't built for that.

I didn't like the concept of vet ranks, in fact I only recently started doing them. I did not put off doing them because of I was scared of a challenge, it's because going back and doing other factions content felt stupid to me. This "fix" isn't going to do anything to change that. The reason I disagree with the change, is it perpetuates a disappointing precedent in gaming. Call it a L2P issue, I call it a cultural issue.

Hmm... comparing a game with a real job... A game is entertainment, well for most people is. Like going to the movies. Like going for a walk, Like eating out. Etc etc etc, more etc.

You do those activities to have a good time. For many people, it is "recreational" time. It is time you spend to "feed your soul". It is also time you can spend with your friends, family, relatives, i.e. socialise.

A game can be all that. A MMO even more so.

This does not by definition mean your job is an awful task. It is something you can certainly enjoy, a lot. But a job is a necessity. For most people.

A job can be highly challenging, rewarding, and all that. It is where you can actually prove your worth, demonstrate your skills, earn recognition, and reward.

A game does not have to be like this. Maybe I want to be ultra competitive and top ranking in my job. Then maybe I want to come home and spend a couple of hours in a game I like, to have some leisure time, socialise, fun. Maybe I do not want a second job.

I know, that certain people view a game as their full time job. Heck, they might consider a game as their whole life. Sure why not. It is their life after all. And no, I will not even comment on that. The phenomenon has been discussed elsewhere, by acknowledged experts and professionals.

But, pretty please, just do not assume that most people will equate a game with a job. Thus feeling the obligation to act in a game like they would in their job. Thank you.

Hilgara

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

There are plenty of games on the market that offer a trivial leveling experience, with no challenge. This is the norm. I don't feel bad for players like myself who enjoy a challenge. Dumbing down MMO's is nothing new to me, it shouldn't be to any experienced player, were used to it. I actually feel sorry for the cry babies. They'll never know what it feels like to actually work hard and accomplish something, to persevere, to be stubborn, and unrelenting. I see it all the time at my job, there are very select few "achievers" and then there's there is a large group that just wants to show up, get paid, and *** off with minimal effort.

That really is a great attitude. I just wanna log in and wreck ***. I don't actually want to have to do anything that may test me mentally or tax my wits, I wasn't built for that.

I didn't like the concept of vet ranks, in fact I only recently started doing them. I did not put off doing them because of I was scared of a challenge, it's because going back and doing other factions content felt stupid to me. This "fix" isn't going to do anything to change that. The reason I disagree with the change, is it perpetuates a disappointing precedent in gaming. Call it a L2P issue, I call it a cultural issue.

Hmm... comparing a game with a real job... A game is entertainment, well for most people is. Like going to the movies. Like going for a walk, Like eating out. Etc etc etc, more etc.

You do those activities to have a good time. For many people, it is "recreational" time. It is time you spend to "feed your soul". It is also time you can spend with your friends, family, relatives, i.e. socialise.

A game can be all that. A MMO even more so.

This does not by definition mean your job is an awful task. It is something you can certainly enjoy, a lot. But a job is a necessity. For most people.

A job can be highly challenging, rewarding, and all that. It is where you can actually prove your worth, demonstrate your skills, earn recognition, and reward.

A game does not have to be like this. Maybe I want to be ultra competitive and top ranking in my job. Then maybe I want to come home and spend a couple of hours in a game I like, to have some leisure time, socialise, fun. Maybe I do not want a second job.

I know, that certain people view a game as their full time job. Heck, they might consider a game as their whole life. Sure why not. It is their life after all. And no, I will not even comment on that. The phenomenon has been discussed elsewhere, by acknowledged experts and professionals.

But, pretty please, just do not assume that most people will equate a game with a job. Thus feeling the obligation to act in a game like they would in their job. Thank you.

This is the closes I have seen to literary Tourette's. Easy on the bold.

Melufey

Uhm..... playing naked inside the game or at home in front of the pc? o.O

RazielSR wrote: »

-Play listening Justin Bieber.

Sry, that's too cruel. Even Sheogorath and Molag Bal wouldn't do this to their victims!

ferzalrwb17_ESO

You can already play VR naked. It doesn't make much difference (honestly - try it).

Next bunch of useless ideas please...

SaibotLiu

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

There are plenty of games on the market that offer a trivial leveling experience, with no challenge. This is the norm. I don't feel bad for players like myself who enjoy a challenge. Dumbing down MMO's is nothing new to me, it shouldn't be to any experienced player, were used to it. I actually feel sorry for the cry babies. They'll never know what it feels like to actually work hard and accomplish something, to persevere, to be stubborn, and unrelenting. I see it all the time at my job, there are very select few "achievers" and then there's there is a large group that just wants to show up, get paid, and *** off with minimal effort.

That really is a great attitude. I just wanna log in and wreck ***. I don't actually want to have to do anything that may test me mentally or tax my wits, I wasn't built for that.

I didn't like the concept of vet ranks, in fact I only recently started doing them. I did not put off doing them because of I was scared of a challenge, it's because going back and doing other factions content felt stupid to me. This "fix" isn't going to do anything to change that. The reason I disagree with the change, is it perpetuates a disappointing precedent in gaming. Call it a L2P issue, I call it a cultural issue.

But, pretty please, just do not assume that most people will equate a game with a job. Thus feeling the obligation to act in a game like they would in their job. Thank you.

There's plenty of MMO's out there which are very laid back. There are a plethora of options available to log in, drool all over the keyboard, and use it as a graphical chatroom. ESO itself is pretty simple as it was. There were optional parts of the game that were difficult that you do not have to do. You can still use it for super happy fun time and get along just fine. As I mentioned I did not get into vet content until recently.

Games are hobbies, some people are more serious about their hobbies than others. Whats wrong with accommodating and designing a game or a portion of a game around that group of people? Apparently a lot because we have to whinge and cry until it's all super happy fun time, all the time. People who don't take their gaming seriously feel excluded. I get it, and we all know this was inevitable.

It's fine, the casuals can in fact have their way, we can dumb it down. But I've seen this happen in LOTRO, I've seen this happen in EQ2, I've seen this happen in SWG, and history is on my side. All those games became worse off and alienated the biggest part of their fanbase by making their games easier, more accessible. Now, a group of people here may want to see a cash shop with purple unicorns and all kinds of silly crap on it in 1-2 years. Personally that's not what I signed up for, but we just took a big first step in that direction.

hamon

Hilgara wrote: »

I want to beat the game and meet the challenge set by the developers. I want the content to require me to be optimal or close to. The challenge of finding what is optimal is an enormous part of the fun of the game.

the irony of this post is monumental imo. You have literaly spend months telling everyone arguing for a bit of re-balncing to do this do that , be pro-active about attempting to make things easier for themselves.

now when it gets down to it you state you don't want to be pro-active in any way to make things more challenging for yourself. you want the game perfectly balanced for hilgara. fair enough you feel things should be just perfect for you. I guess everyone wants that ... where that becomes a bit self centred (i wont use the term entitled cos i hate the L2P crowd for using it) is when you can't accept that in an MMO it can't be balanced for you me or anyone . it has to be aimed at the centre median. because while player skill, classes and play styles vary from person to person you have to accept you can't get things just the way you like them.

hamon

RazielSR wrote: »

Another tips:

-Play with sunglasses at night.
-Play staring at the sun at day.
-Play in your work.
-Do not eat for one week and play 24 hrs non stop.
-Tie one hand and one feet.
-Play listening Justin Bieber.
-Play with a coat in the summer.

etc, etc

playing with beiber on , now thats hardcore tbh.

Nidwin

I'm convinced those veteran zones will still remain challenging enough for everyone. Elites and Bosses are fine as they are so they just need to adjust the thrash a bit.

hamon

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

There are plenty of games on the market that offer a trivial leveling experience, with no challenge. This is the norm. I don't feel bad for players like myself who enjoy a challenge. Dumbing down MMO's is nothing new to me, it shouldn't be to any experienced player, were used to it. I actually feel sorry for the cry babies. They'll never know what it feels like to actually work hard and accomplish something, to persevere, to be stubborn, and unrelenting. I see it all the time at my job, there are very select few "achievers" and then there's there is a large group that just wants to show up, get paid, and *** off with minimal effort.

That really is a great attitude. I just wanna log in and wreck ***. I don't actually want to have to do anything that may test me mentally or tax my wits, I wasn't built for that.

I didn't like the concept of vet ranks, in fact I only recently started doing them. I did not put off doing them because of I was scared of a challenge, it's because going back and doing other factions content felt stupid to me. This "fix" isn't going to do anything to change that. The reason I disagree with the change, is it perpetuates a disappointing precedent in gaming. Call it a L2P issue, I call it a cultural issue.

But, pretty please, just do not assume that most people will equate a game with a job. Thus feeling the obligation to act in a game like they would in their job. Thank you.

There's plenty of MMO's out there which are very laid back. There are a plethora of options available to log in, drool all over the keyboard, and use it as a graphical chatroom. ESO itself is pretty simple as it was. There were optional parts of the game that were difficult that you do not have to do. You can still use it for super happy fun time and get along just fine. As I mentioned I did not get into vet content until recently.

Games are hobbies, some people are more serious about their hobbies than others. Whats wrong with accommodating and designing a game or a portion of a game around that group of people? Apparently a lot because we have to whinge and cry until it's all super happy fun time, all the time. People who don't take their gaming seriously feel excluded. I get it, and we all know this was inevitable.

It's fine, the casuals can in fact have their way, we can dumb it down. But I've seen this happen in LOTRO, I've seen this happen in EQ2, I've seen this happen in SWG, and history is on my side. All those games became worse off and alienated the biggest part of their fanbase by making their games easier, more accessible. Now, a group of people here may want to see a cash shop with purple unicorns and all kinds of silly crap on it in 1-2 years. Personally that's not what I signed up for, but we just took a big first step in that direction.

its funny to me how anyone can say "super happy fun time" and make it sound like a bad thing. i know hes trying to be insulting, but i mean what should games be "angry boring frustration time" ?

i question the sanity of anyone who pays for a game and doesn't want it to be fun.

Larira

hamon wrote: »

[*] roll the hardest class - play templar, that should be harder for anyone who hasnt already tried

Sorry but the templar is IMHO a very easy class. I have no issues to play the Veteran 8 conent solo, except the dolmens and some WB.


Greetings

Anastasia

SaibotLiu wrote: »

There are plenty of games on the market that offer a trivial leveling experience, with no challenge. This is the norm. I don't feel bad for players like myself who enjoy a challenge. Dumbing down MMO's is nothing new to me, it shouldn't be to any experienced player, were used to it. I actually feel sorry for the cry babies. They'll never know what it feels like to actually work hard and accomplish something, to persevere, to be stubborn, and unrelenting. I see it all the time at my job, there are very select few "achievers" and then there's there is a large group that just wants to show up, get paid, and *** off with minimal effort.

That really is a great attitude. I just wanna log in and wreck ***. I don't actually want to have to do anything that may test me mentally or tax my wits, I wasn't built for that.

I didn't like the concept of vet ranks, in fact I only recently started doing them. I did not put off doing them because of I was scared of a challenge, it's because going back and doing other factions content felt stupid to me. This "fix" isn't going to do anything to change that. The reason I disagree with the change, is it perpetuates a disappointing precedent in gaming. Call it a L2P issue, I call it a cultural issue.

---

Outstanding post SaibotLiu, thank you.

By the way, "I wasn't built for that." Let me know if you ever actually hear those words spoke aloud. True for an increasing percentage of the population but very rarely ever acknowledged - if it were, that would fall under personal responsibility, which is another thing that has been diluted.

We see this from the 'under the radar' crowd in a growing majority of public schools who are taught by teachers who have to answer to administration for the bottom line instead of teaching what their own considerable years of experience and pedagogy points them to do. Kids are being taught "to the test" - to just memorize stuff, regurgitate it out for a grade, but then have little grasp of critical thinking or how to generalize and apply what they memorized.

This encompasses those you describe SaibotLiu,as not getting to enjoy what it feels like to figure something out, and who won't know the rush of real self esteem, yes even in a recreational pursuit of how it feels to accomplish things by the means necessary, think out of the box and persevere. All qualities which are important as you live life.

It is not elitism to call out truth. Sure, jumping in a game for a few minutes while one has a cold brew and chats with friends is fun for those who 'just want to unwind'. I 'thought' though Zeni set out to provide some MMO gaming that provided that in certain areas, and different challenges in other content. It was a fabulous vision. Not sure what it is now. Guess we will see starting Monday and thereafter as I'm certain it will be integrated over a spread out timetable ;o/.

Good journeys in Tamriel.

Lodestar

hamon wrote: »

heres some comments to give you a flavor of what the forum rambos who want it all tough and manly feel about it.

quote brandon
I hate most mmo players for this reason. Everything needs to die in 1 hit for them to have fun. Then they complain about something else which also gets nerfed over and over again. Finally they leave anyway leaving everyone else with a nerfed to hell game to play. They then go and do it to another game.

nice attitude brandon

quote zerotolerance <--- the name speaks volumes
It's bad but always happens. The noobs always get their way 'cos they can give out here while in normal life they can only sulk in the corner and cry on their momma's lap instead of demanding to win everything they engage in without even trying. Lucky them I guess....

you sound like a nice guy too

these people are just so nice

Is it just me, or do you think about how these "tough guys" are sitting in nice sheltered housing, with heating and air conditioning, feeling brave and macho, behind a keyboard, and not having any repercussions about what they say, are self mockery's and hypocrites? .... Anyone? Surely not just me?

Hilgara

Lodestar wrote: »

these people are just so nice

Is it just me, or do you think about how these "tough guys" are sitting in nice sheltered housing, with heating and air conditioning, feeling brave and macho, behind a keyboard, and not having any repercussions about what they say, are self mockery's and hypocrites? .... Anyone? Surely not just me?

Not everyone who liked the difficulty the way it was is a knuckle dragging troglodyte.
I've always tried to defend my position with reason and without insult.
I prefer the passive aggressive approach