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Why aren't the managers and DEV's in panic mode?
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Selique✭✭✭✭Fairydragon3 wrote: »you mean to tell me that the normal things that are usually off for the first year for an MMO are not FIXED?!
ALL MMOs of ALL TIME have started off the EXACT same way in terms of things being broken, servers being crap, and people crying doom. There is NOT ONE MMO you can tell me that started its first few months without the same or similar troubles ESO is having.
i would argue that WoW , Eq2 , SWG , GW2, rift, all released in as good a state if not better than ESO.
In saying that i count ESO as a pretty smooth release.
However the real diffrence is that while every other MMO seemed to be moving forward after release ESO is heading backwards.
I would argue that all of those games had forums that screamed as much as these ones. You can ask anyone who started them what it was like, and while the actual causes of the problems may be different, the end result is the same: People were not happy with things.
I can tell you for a fact, SWG did not start off as smooth or in better shape than ESO (And SWG is and was my favorite MMO of all time. I played it the entire 8 years it was out, from beta till sunset). So, that is one example of yours I can knock out there.
As for the other games, I'm sure there are people here who could tell you that they did not start out any different than any other MMO that has ever launched.
The whole point I'm trying to make is this: Everyone knows the first few months of a game's release are the rockiest. Everyone knows that in time, (If ESO is really the style of game you enjoy playing) it will get better.
As for "going backwards" that is just an opinion. I see nothing but forward momentum. Some bumps in the road, sure. Some big old potholes even, but nothing is going "backwards" as you say. At least, in MY opinion. So don't try to pass that off as fact.
well i never noticed any major problems with SWG when it launched. and i played it for about a year.
and as far as ESO isconcerned PVP has went backwards without a doubt.
I could play in beta and aside from lag in huge battles which is difficult and has proved to be so for every game that attempted it to master. i could play all day with no issue.
now we have the FPS grinding to halt or the random "unknown error" disconnects within 30 mins of playing usually.
before that the grouping bug where folk leaving or joining a raid in cyrodill caused lag spikes.. again never happened in beta.
Oh, SWG.... Its problems..... Like flying bushes.... No vehicles, no space combat (And I'm talking within the first 6 months). Class imbalance that made it so only Doc/TKM was the only viable class for anything lol SWG's class imbalance (Which lasted a long time) would put ESO to shame... It was a wreck. But it was my wreck and I loved it!
Listen, I know the FPS troubles well, it effects me EVERYWHERE, not just Cyrodiil. I can see how this problem would make you frustrated, as it does me, but its not "backwards". What was removed? What did they take away? Nothing. Its mechanical issues with the system. It could be a combination of you and them.
Have you submitted a bug report? Tried adjusting your settings on your computer and In-Game? You can't just assume that, because its posted here in the forums its all them. Try doing something before complaining the ENTIRE game is going backwards.
If you *have* done those things, then you can only wait until they are able to track down the problem and fix it. Its not a big deal, all games go through this.
well if the game is playing fine on my PC then they change stuff and suddenly its not. I NEVER start messing with my rig to fix a problem that isn't there.
and it was running fine for long enough. they just seem to break their own game with every patch more and more.
they broke an already difficuly vet mode with their buffing of everything accidently.
they left completely broken things in game far to long , Duping, batswarm spam, caltrops etc etc.
they break more stuff next patch, silver shards.
and cyrodill has completely regressed to a state thats worse than beta.
how can that not be going backwards?
And how is it different than any other MMO?
its diffrent because in my experience after release in every other MMO they fixed stuff with every patch progressively , as opposed to break things
Haha, I wish I had the same experiences as you then! I've played a lot of MMOs, and none of them ever went backwards (SWG is debatable, but in the end, I enjoyed the final months of NGE better than all of Pre-Cu and CU combined). I see them trying to fix things here. Just like in other games. Like I said, time. Given enough time, Zenimax will figure out how best to fix everything )But some bugs will remain for ever, that's the nature of the beast).
Its not going backwards, its hitting bumps. Nothing more. Just like ALL MMOs.Falls-With-Grace ~ Shadowscale (Argonian Night Blade)
Selique Lasra ~ Captain, Smuggler, Swashbuckler (Redguard Templar)
Chases-Comets ~ Shellback Warrior (Argonian Dragon Knight)
Slissix-Kir ~ Swamp Shaman (Argonian Sorcerer)
Hail Sithis..3 -
Voodoo✭✭✭✭Dont think OP see's big picture. I believe ZOS IS doing everything in their power to respond, help and fix player feedback. The problem is ZOS has a budget for customer support..not like they can go out and just hire another 5oo CS agents ..so ya they do what they can in the budget. There are alot of ppl playing this game or having problems playing this game. ZOS has a operational budget and can only do so much with in that. Plain and simple.2 -
Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭
Spec requirements are subject to change for MMO's, yes becasue they changed something can make your rig not work as well, or you may get an error, however. if you contact them, there is most likely something you can do on your end to get it working. As for this FPS issue, yes that would be something and is something on their end that they say they are working on, but backwards? Well it doesn't affect my rig as badly as some others are reporting, and I have no problem just lowing my settings for a smoother gameplay, so there we are just going to have to disagree.Fairydragon3 wrote: »you mean to tell me that the normal things that are usually off for the first year for an MMO are not FIXED?!
ALL MMOs of ALL TIME have started off the EXACT same way in terms of things being broken, servers being crap, and people crying doom. There is NOT ONE MMO you can tell me that started its first few months without the same or similar troubles ESO is having.
i would argue that WoW , Eq2 , SWG , GW2, rift, all released in as good a state if not better than ESO.
In saying that i count ESO as a pretty smooth release.
However the real diffrence is that while every other MMO seemed to be moving forward after release ESO is heading backwards.
I would argue that all of those games had forums that screamed as much as these ones. You can ask anyone who started them what it was like, and while the actual causes of the problems may be different, the end result is the same: People were not happy with things.
I can tell you for a fact, SWG did not start off as smooth or in better shape than ESO (And SWG is and was my favorite MMO of all time. I played it the entire 8 years it was out, from beta till sunset). So, that is one example of yours I can knock out there.
As for the other games, I'm sure there are people here who could tell you that they did not start out any different than any other MMO that has ever launched.
The whole point I'm trying to make is this: Everyone knows the first few months of a game's release are the rockiest. Everyone knows that in time, (If ESO is really the style of game you enjoy playing) it will get better.
As for "going backwards" that is just an opinion. I see nothing but forward momentum. Some bumps in the road, sure. Some big old potholes even, but nothing is going "backwards" as you say. At least, in MY opinion. So don't try to pass that off as fact.
well i never noticed any major problems with SWG when it launched. and i played it for about a year.
and as far as ESO isconcerned PVP has went backwards without a doubt.
I could play in beta and aside from lag in huge battles which is difficult and has proved to be so for every game that attempted it to master. i could play all day with no issue.
now we have the FPS grinding to halt or the random "unknown error" disconnects within 30 mins of playing usually.
before that the grouping bug where folk leaving or joining a raid in cyrodill caused lag spikes.. again never happened in beta.
Oh, SWG.... Its problems..... Like flying bushes.... No vehicles, no space combat (And I'm talking within the first 6 months). Class imbalance that made it so only Doc/TKM was the only viable class for anything lol SWG's class imbalance (Which lasted a long time) would put ESO to shame... It was a wreck. But it was my wreck and I loved it!
Listen, I know the FPS troubles well, it effects me EVERYWHERE, not just Cyrodiil. I can see how this problem would make you frustrated, as it does me, but its not "backwards". What was removed? What did they take away? Nothing. Its mechanical issues with the system. It could be a combination of you and them.
Have you submitted a bug report? Tried adjusting your settings on your computer and In-Game? You can't just assume that, because its posted here in the forums its all them. Try doing something before complaining the ENTIRE game is going backwards.
If you *have* done those things, then you can only wait until they are able to track down the problem and fix it. Its not a big deal, all games go through this.
well if the game is playing fine on my PC then they change stuff and suddenly its not. I NEVER start messing with my rig to fix a problem that isn't there.
and it was running fine for long enough. they just seem to break their own game with every patch more and more.
they broke an already difficuly vet mode with their buffing of everything accidently.
they left completely broken things in game far to long , Duping, batswarm spam, caltrops etc etc.
they break more stuff next patch, silver shards.
and cyrodill has completely regressed to a state thats worse than beta.
how can that not be going backwards?
As for the balance issues, again something that doesn't get pinned down for a long long timeEdited by Fairydragon3 on July 3, 2014 1:54PM2 -
Jimm_ay✭✭✭One thing I can agree on, there needs to be a faster resolution to quest bugs. I did one last night, fighting through to the end where I need to make one of two choices. Black triangles on my bar but now clickies in the room..reload ui does not work...I had to leave the area, and go back to the beginning and do it all again. Get to the end and they were there this time. Another quest - I have to fight off a final attack...except that part keeps recycling...I finish it and am supposed to go look for survivors but no...the attack keeps recycling...I killed about 20 waves of trolls before giving up...logged, logged back in - same thing.0
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Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭Fairydragon3 wrote: »you mean to tell me that the normal things that are usually off for the first year for an MMO are not FIXED?!
ALL MMOs of ALL TIME have started off the EXACT same way in terms of things being broken, servers being crap, and people crying doom. There is NOT ONE MMO you can tell me that started its first few months without the same or similar troubles ESO is having.
i would argue that WoW , Eq2 , SWG , GW2, rift, all released in as good a state if not better than ESO.
In saying that i count ESO as a pretty smooth release.
However the real diffrence is that while every other MMO seemed to be moving forward after release ESO is heading backwards.
I would argue that all of those games had forums that screamed as much as these ones. You can ask anyone who started them what it was like, and while the actual causes of the problems may be different, the end result is the same: People were not happy with things.
I can tell you for a fact, SWG did not start off as smooth or in better shape than ESO (And SWG is and was my favorite MMO of all time. I played it the entire 8 years it was out, from beta till sunset). So, that is one example of yours I can knock out there.
As for the other games, I'm sure there are people here who could tell you that they did not start out any different than any other MMO that has ever launched.
The whole point I'm trying to make is this: Everyone knows the first few months of a game's release are the rockiest. Everyone knows that in time, (If ESO is really the style of game you enjoy playing) it will get better.
As for "going backwards" that is just an opinion. I see nothing but forward momentum. Some bumps in the road, sure. Some big old potholes even, but nothing is going "backwards" as you say. At least, in MY opinion. So don't try to pass that off as fact.
well i never noticed any major problems with SWG when it launched. and i played it for about a year.
and as far as ESO isconcerned PVP has went backwards without a doubt.
I could play in beta and aside from lag in huge battles which is difficult and has proved to be so for every game that attempted it to master. i could play all day with no issue.
now we have the FPS grinding to halt or the random "unknown error" disconnects within 30 mins of playing usually.
before that the grouping bug where folk leaving or joining a raid in cyrodill caused lag spikes.. again never happened in beta.
Oh, SWG.... Its problems..... Like flying bushes.... No vehicles, no space combat (And I'm talking within the first 6 months). Class imbalance that made it so only Doc/TKM was the only viable class for anything lol SWG's class imbalance (Which lasted a long time) would put ESO to shame... It was a wreck. But it was my wreck and I loved it!
Listen, I know the FPS troubles well, it effects me EVERYWHERE, not just Cyrodiil. I can see how this problem would make you frustrated, as it does me, but its not "backwards". What was removed? What did they take away? Nothing. Its mechanical issues with the system. It could be a combination of you and them.
Have you submitted a bug report? Tried adjusting your settings on your computer and In-Game? You can't just assume that, because its posted here in the forums its all them. Try doing something before complaining the ENTIRE game is going backwards.
If you *have* done those things, then you can only wait until they are able to track down the problem and fix it. Its not a big deal, all games go through this.
well if the game is playing fine on my PC then they change stuff and suddenly its not. I NEVER start messing with my rig to fix a problem that isn't there.
and it was running fine for long enough. they just seem to break their own game with every patch more and more.
they broke an already difficuly vet mode with their buffing of everything accidently.
they left completely broken things in game far to long , Duping, batswarm spam, caltrops etc etc.
they break more stuff next patch, silver shards.
and cyrodill has completely regressed to a state thats worse than beta.
how can that not be going backwards?
And how is it different than any other MMO?
its diffrent because in my experience after release in every other MMO they fixed stuff with every patch progressively , as opposed to break things
Haha, I wish I had the same experiences as you then! I've played a lot of MMOs, and none of them ever went backwards (SWG is debatable, but in the end, I enjoyed the final months of NGE better than all of Pre-Cu and CU combined). I see them trying to fix things here. Just like in other games. Like I said, time. Given enough time, Zenimax will figure out how best to fix everything )But some bugs will remain for ever, that's the nature of the beast).
Its not going backwards, its hitting bumps. Nothing more. Just like ALL MMOs.
Never even maxed out one character. once the original game was gone all i did was RP with my guild, which was the only/best time i've ever rp'd, oh more space LOTS AND LOTS OF SPACE, hell i would have guild parties in my barge2 -
Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭One thing I can agree on, there needs to be a faster resolution to quest bugs. I did one last night, fighting through to the end where I need to make one of two choices. Black triangles on my bar but now clickies in the room..reload ui does not work...I had to leave the area, and go back to the beginning and do it all again. Get to the end and they were there this time. Another quest - I have to fight off a final attack...except that part keeps recycling...I finish it and am supposed to go look for survivors but no...the attack keeps recycling...I killed about 20 waves of trolls before giving up...logged, logged back in - same thing.
think I know what your talking about for the first one, where the "clickies" black gems? if so i noticed this, but I could still click them1 -
Zebug✭✭✭They have fixed stuff with every patch, so they fix 10 things and 3 other things get broke...that is forward to me. Or are you saying that they have not fixed 1 thing in any patch to date? Think of all the bugged quests they fixed, they fixed bat swarm spam, they have done a lot of balancing already (still need to help out our stamina friends but they'll get there).4
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slackmare✭✭large scale PvP might be the ONLY thing that has gone backwards, there is a lot more to the game than PvP...I think it's been the same, was laggy with large scale battles in beta and throughout, so I just do quests and hence small fights in PvP and have a blast doing it.
PvE is many steps ahead of where they were at launch
completely FALSE. I occasionally PvP...most of my time has been leveling PVE. I played fine. The occasional load screen out of the blue. Anchors were a LITTLE slow in loading. Sure i came across the bugged quest every now and then but aside form that this game was SUPERB in playability until patch 1.2.3. After that i basically couldnt play unless i went to a low zone and farmed mats..that was even slow. Since EVERY mobs was invisible and would take AGES to load in even after i was sitting there not being able to attack until they rendered...and i would take damage the whole time. I started getting load screens EVERYWHERE. Basically unplayable from that stand point.
Then the beloved 1.2.4 comes out and then the backwards progression of their patches became laughable. Mobs rendering from invisible was even longer. When they did render, and i could finally attack them...if i used any healing spells..well, then i was in a state of slideshow fighting at 1-4 fps. So they applied a hotfix and when the hotfix is applied, everything i look at in inventory and bank and even clicking links in chat looked like this:
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
so yeah, i think your wrong there with pvp being the ONLY thing that has gone backwards. Just because it doesnt effect you doesnt mean the game isnt suffering from it. Take your blinders off!
My sub is up on wednesday, if i cant play after monday patch....i guess im gonna have to stop playing the one game that has made me get back into gaming!!! Sadly i dont have much faith in monday patch either at this point
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Zebug✭✭✭As in the words of one of the great philosophers once said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhQql-ZbZmg 3 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭How would we know? The only people who know when and if to start panicking are the people with the financial spreadsheet models. It's they who will have the final say on the direction or future of the game.1
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Some of course never survived that long *cough* Warhammer *cough* for example, while others like SW:TOR are a pale imitation of what the pre-launch hype was pumping.
ALL MMOs of ALL TIME have started off the EXACT same way in terms of things being broken, servers being crap, and people crying doom. There is NOT ONE MMO you can tell me that started its first few months without the same or similar troubles ESO is having.Fairydragon3 wrote: »you mean to tell me that the normal things that are usually off for the first year for an MMO are not FIXED?!
That being said, in a year or so, everything will be different
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 3, 2014 2:24PM1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The nationality of the company developing it is relevant as to how successful an MMO playable on consoles can be, because ... ?wrlifeboil wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
I didn't know Zenimax was owned by a Japanese corporation.
One thing though, you can bet a 'western' developer when faced with the train-wreck of FFXIV V1 wouldn't have been allowed by their corporate overlords to try to recover, it would have shared the fate of Warhammer, for example.Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 3, 2014 2:27PM1 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ OP
panic never solves anything.
All of the things you mention are definitely things that need development and as far as I can see are pretty much on a par with any MMO.
However panic decisions, firefighting development and reactionary first aid will not lead to a quality product.
All of those things need considered development plus measured feedback from players.
At least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*1 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭
I think this comes down to one glaring reason. ZOS are betting the house on the console release. The resources and expertise devoted to making it work are what is draining the resources away from the live game.
I don't know anyone who wants to play this game on console, or pay its fees for it? So many have told that Zenimax's treatment of the PC release and its community has shown that they are just trying to grab more money for such a minimal effort and their are plenty of movie based games they spend that one. Plus their competition is much more fun and costs far less.
I agree with them, Zenimax has done naught to keep its current subscribers happy or give them a reason to remain loyal. The only ones sticking around are those who still have game time or really love the ES franchise so much they are putting up with these problems (Like me).
I am sorry but unless Zenimax releases a PC patch that solves every problem at console launch addressing everything and rewarding those PC players for their loyalty and even those who took a huge leap of faith to transfer on console then nothing will save it.
Zenimax has clearly made no attempt to really get serious and fix this game for console launch and hasn't bothered announcing some rewards for those who would take a leap of faith and transfer to consoles.
TL;DR: Dead console community and enraged PC gamers at console launch is all the fruit Zenimax will bare. Reap what you sow.0 -
MMO's that I have played that have been worse than Eso's start.
Hmm well lets see, Vanguards for one that game could have been Sooo great, But by the time Everything was fixed, and content added it was WAY to late.
Warhammer Wow just wow, It was fun for a little bit, but was a big fail.
World of Warcraft. A lot of you seem to go around with rose tinted glasses. The servers were constantly crashing or being brought down, Rubber banding to beat hell, Lag so bad in Some areas that you could attack mobs, Nothing would happen for 5-10 seconds and then all of a sudden you screen would seem to go into fast forward where everything would catch up. Huge server Queue's where some people had to wait hours on end to get in, If they could get in at all. Login server problems. Lack of End game, gold farmers, Etc etc.
I could List more, but you get the point, Most if not all past MMOS have released with Issues of one sort or another. There are things that can't always be tested until live or just don't show up.
It takes time to fix some of the issues. Some are not always a quick fix. As for Balancing, that's an ongoing battle that all MMOS have to deal with.
Most MMOS get things sorted out within 6-8 months of going live. Others like Warhammer and Vanguards just Never quite get there, when they finally do well over a year after going live its just way too late.2 -
Lalai✭✭✭✭Whether the game has gone "backwards" or not is subjective to each person. For people that get hit by the bugs introduced with a patch, they may feel like it's going backwards. This is true for any game out there. Just how forward a game has been going also depends on how many issues you had at launch, or during beta.
Beta was a bugged mess for me. I got stuck in a variety of location, was always getting dismounted unintentionally, had to open and close my mailbox all the time to escape conversations, and there were a crap ton of low level quests (like 1 in every 5 or 6) that required relogging, some more than 20 relogs and I still couldn't get placed in an instance that worked. Anchors bugged constantly too, so those were out. Was also not uncommon to see mobs that were "stuck".. still standing, full health, but couldn't be attacked. Then of course we have the issues where I couldn't even create a character, and eternal load screens.
If we compare that with my experience leveling up since launch, I've hit a few side quests in the hundreds that I've done (all zones fully completed all the way up to and through VR 3, with the VR 4 zone over halfway done). I've hit zero main story quest blocking bugs, not to say there weren't any.. but they fixed them prior to me getting to them. I've gotten stuck once, didn't get hit by the bank bug, haven't had any FPS issues in the PvE world, or the PvP campaign my guild plays on. New patch buffed up some of my Templar skills, so now I feel stronger, which is fine with me. No issues with invisible mobs either. Aside from some achievements being bugged, and a few hiccups (when whispers weren't going through and load screens got really long across the board for a few days), it's been a really smooth ride for me.
All the posts saying people are fleeing could be right, they could also be wrong. ZoS could be in "panic" mode behind the scenes, they could appear calm because they get to see numbers and there's actually not a reason to panic, or it could be that they are happy with projected console sales numbers. The forums though, are not a good representation for any game. Not a single one. Even WoW's forums are full of negativity and hate, and have been for years and years. FFXIV:ARR went through the forum cycle of "omg, everyone is leaving, my free company and linkshells are empty!" and it meant jack all. That game still has over 1 million subs (with a much, much worse launch that ESO, imo..and that's with assuming that everything on the forums that people complain about is all true for a majority of people).
Anyway, I'm not saying the game is doing fine, or doesn't have issues. I'm saying that we don't know sub numbers. So to claim it's doing amazing, or that it's a completely sinking ship is kinda silly at this point in time. Each of us only has anecdotal evidence and that means nothing. I learned that lesson with FFXIV:ARR.
If anyone happens to make it through my book, and replies to anything. I'm not going to be able to respond. I'll be off the forums for a few weeks while I attend a wedding and visit some family.Fisher extraordinaire!
Send me your worms, crawlers, guts, and insect parts.
Templar Healer
Daggerfall Covenant, NA2 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have came to the conclusion that there is one clear reason why ZOS arn't in panic mode and ringing the changes in house. to turn around what seems obvious to anyone is a ship that needs a change of direction or at best some pretty hefty maintenance.
the problems
i think it's safe to say there are glaring and pretty urgent problems needing addressed.- balance issues
- stability
- end game
- pvp ( emperor farming, guesting, lag)
Now ordinarily you would expect that when faced with all this and such a huge budget spent, things would be moving at pace to fix the issues. whether that took the form of hiring/ firing staff to effect change. massive amounts of customer care communication to reassure the customers that they are bending over backwards to try to keep them happy.
But the response seems slow and minimal to me.
I think this comes down to one glaring reason. ZOS are betting the house on the console release. The resources and expertise devoted to making it work are what is draining the resources away from the live game.
who can blame them as a business model. They are effectively getting a second release to gain a whole new market. it makes sense that if even half their focus is directed towards consoles it will slow down any fixes and increase the chance for mistakes to slip through the net onto our version.
this is exactly what we are experiencing imo.
i'm not offering and judgments about consoles or entering into any flaming of console gamers etc.. I just think it's the only reason that makes sense as to why They are allowing this game to be in the state it is without really hitting the panic button at ZOS in order to make this game better in a timely fashion.
Because we have the dumbest and deafest developers known to mankind.0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Or... They are already in panic mode. You do know it is not always a good thing when programers are in a hurry. But it would explain some of what has happened.
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Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why aren't the managers and DEV's in panic mode?
Nuff said !
High Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !4 -
Phaistos✭✭hamon wrote:its diffrent because in my experience after release in every other MMO they fixed stuff with every patch progressively , as opposed to break things
Your memory is flawed. All games had serious bumps in the road, including server downtime for periods of 24h and longer.
I agree that in some cases it could be percieved as only positive progress - but only because the game started in such a miserable state in the first place.3
