Werewolves: What issues are YOU facing, and how would you like to see them fixed?

Samadhi

This topic is for the handful of remaining Werewolf players out there.

I just decided to roll over to the WW team after encountering the NPCs last night.
I'm only level 5 Werewolf so far, so I may not be quite as informed as more veteran Werewolf players; however, right off the bat I noticed an issue or two that made players complaints about it being underpowered glaringly apparent.

I thought I would start this thread and see if issues I encounter while leveling pertain to other players or solely to myself.

The first issue I would like to touch up on is:
Lack of self healing/sustain in combat
This issue was the most immediately apparent to me. Werewolf transformation is the only Ultimate I have used in this game that increases my likelihood of dying as opposed to winning the fight.
The first issue I am having with this is simple. The only way I have to heal myself as a Werewolf is by devouring a corpse.
The devour function is great fun and all, but it doesn't function while taking damage meaning it can only happen after combat -- and getting to the end of combat in order to eat something is half the battle. This may work fine in pre-50 levels; however, in Veteran zones where even simple combat is protracted it becomes an issue. In PvP it's even more painfully apparent when I can 1v1 someone and they have healing skills but I am entirely limited to a damaging pounce, a minor CC skill, and my click attacks.

The way I would like to see this fixed is:
Make Werewolf mouse-click attacks heal the Werewolf's health
I don't really care if this gets tacked on to the transformation skill, or is simply made a passive we can pick up in our skill line. If it were implemented in either manner, it would go a long way to mitigate most of my concerns.
I would also accept an active skill after transformation that had a similar effect.
It doesn't have to be a massively overpowered heal, but we need something to give us some sustain.

At v7 in Cadwell's Gold, or against other players in Cyrodiil, I'm presently more likely to die as a Werewolf before my timer runs out than anything else.
As an Ultimate, this is rather subpar -- especially given the cost it has.
The ability to self-heal would remedy this issue, and would make the climb in Ultimate points far more worthwhile and balanced in use.

Maybe I "should" be running with a healer at all times in order to play a Werewolf and embrace a pack mentality; however, I'd like to hunt solo like I did in PvP before my transformation.

If there is a morph in our Active skills that has this effect, please do let me know and feel free to ridicule my short-sightedness.
Otherwise, do any other fellow Werewolves have some warning for me of what is to come in terms of other issues, and perhaps ideas as to how those issues could be fixed?

Talrenos

The issues you note are not going to be fixed. WW is being ignored by ZOS and actually got worse this patch. They have no inkling to fix anything as ZOS feels its not broken.
BS. Its the WORST implementation ever and whoever thought this up should be fired.

NobleX35

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/105651/werewolf-overhaul-thread#latest

Here is my list of suggestions and my thread on ideas for possible werewolf changes/overhauls.

Samadhi

sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »

The issues you note are not going to be fixed. WW is being ignored by ZOS and actually got worse this patch. They have no inkling to fix anything as ZOS feels its not broken.
BS. Its the WORST implementation ever and whoever thought this up should be fired.

I don't actually have false hopes that @ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else @ZOS is actually going to tend to my concerns. It was more just a constructive way for me to get out my frustration on the issue.
I've played a Bow build Nightblade since beta and early access; I'm quite familiar with having issues going untended.
As Werewolf is kind of the paragon of Stamina builds, the overall lack of love that Stamina gets is brightly reflected in it.

I am genuinely interested in hearing from players who have stuck with Werewolf as to what the primary concerns are, as well as possible remedies they have devised to make them more manageable.
I get that it is considered to be notoriously bad and everything; however, I'm looking to stick it out anyway, and I am hoping if there are any tips to deal with the worst of it that someone will pass them my way.

Samadhi

GothicPython wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/105651/werewolf-overhaul-thread#latest

Here is my list of suggestions and my thread on ideas for possible werewolf changes/overhauls.

Thank you kindly for the link, I will check it out and hopefully even have some feedback.

c0rp

My issue is the fact that im stronger in human form, and have MORE survivability than in WW form....uhhh yea, ok...

Samadhi

c0rp wrote: »

My issue is the fact that im stronger in human form, and have MORE survivability than in WW form....uhhh yea, ok...

Yeah, it is really rather nonsensical.
It seems all they did was give us standard Stamina-based damage and basic armour stat.

It would even be a great start if they added a better damage multiplier, and if they changed the Armour increase to a % damage reduction (like was recently done with Nords).

TheBull

Fix the bugging of transformation when transforming in large groups.
Lower the cost to about 300
Allow them to break hard cc with rmb-lmb


Nothing else. For the most part people are playing WW wrong. WW is not a single person encounter ult. WW is the ultimate Zerg breaker. Spamable AoE fears that set off balance. Leap that knocks down and does dmg. Increased ult gain, etc.

I'm sure the ad and ep on wabba can tell you about the white wolf

Samadhi

TheBull wrote: »

Fix the bugging of transformation when transforming in large groups.
Lower the cost to about 300
Allow them to break hard cc with rmb-lmb
...

Yeah, these all seem pretty pertinent.
My build is set up to generate ultimate relatively quickly, so the cost isn't as huge to me.
CC break is a must though.

TheBull wrote: »

...
Nothing else. For the most part people are playing WW wrong. WW is not a single person encounter ult. WW is the ultimate Zerg breaker. Spamable AoE fears that set off balance. Leap that knocks down and does dmg. Increased ult gain, etc.

I'm sure the ad and ep on wabba can tell you about the white wolf

Yeah, I'm getting that impression of it. I'm thinking I will end up putting Werewolf on just one of my bars so that I have the option to transform, then keeping my Nightblade ultimate on the other so I still have access to it in my 1v1s.

If you are DC on NA server, perhaps I will see you in the charge after the FPS issue is fixed.
Right now even small-scale battles are giving me drops. I'd like to attribute my poor PvP performance as a WW to the FPS issue, but I still think it is more a matter of issues with WW itself lol. (aside from my obvious lack of skills as a player)

Kalman

I have fleas... they itch.

Gizzarduk

I think the poison dmg should be removed completely if they aren't going to change anything as is. Also a way to transform on demand and stay in form for RP and just looking cool would be nice.

Orchish

As somebody mentioned above, the problem is that in both PvE and PvP you are MUCH stronger in your normal form than when you transform into a WW. It's not an ultimate, it's a joke.

TheBull

Samadhi wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Fix the bugging of transformation when transforming in large groups.
Lower the cost to about 300
Allow them to break hard cc with rmb-lmb
...

Yeah, these all seem pretty pertinent.
My build is set up to generate ultimate relatively quickly, so the cost isn't as huge to me.
CC break is a must though.

TheBull wrote: »

...
Nothing else. For the most part people are playing WW wrong. WW is not a single person encounter ult. WW is the ultimate Zerg breaker. Spamable AoE fears that set off balance. Leap that knocks down and does dmg. Increased ult gain, etc.

I'm sure the ad and ep on wabba can tell you about the white wolf

Yeah, I'm getting that impression of it. I'm thinking I will end up putting Werewolf on just one of my bars so that I have the option to transform, then keeping my Nightblade ultimate on the other so I still have access to it in my 1v1s.

If you are DC on NA server, perhaps I will see you in the charge after the FPS issue is fixed.
Right now even small-scale battles are giving me drops. I'd like to attribute my poor PvP performance as a WW to the FPS issue, but I still think it is more a matter of issues with WW itself lol. (aside from my obvious lack of skills as a player)

Yeah, it takes a while to get the feel. You are able dodge roll (lunge on all fours) out of soft cc which is nice. Don't expect to go all DK solo in a crowd of ten. You need healers behind you. As long as you are up though you make you team significantly stronger with control and ult gain.

Bryong9ub17_ESO

Good thing becoming a werewolf is optional.

Tendeep

sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »

The issues you note are not going to be fixed. WW is being ignored by ZOS and actually got worse this patch. They have no inkling to fix anything as ZOS feels its not broken.
BS. Its the WORST implementation ever and whoever thought this up should be fired.

Sadly this is the truth, and sadly they get upset when we start demanding fixes lol - but to be honest, they did this to themselves. We only demand a product that works, too much does not, so they have no right to get mad at us for paying for something that is hosed.
- I hate to say it, but they need to suck it up and accept the flames and demands, too many aspects of this MMO are bugged or broken.
-
I personally have been discussing the broken WW aspect since release and is has had 0! 0! 0! ZOS notice.

Samadhi

Kalman wrote: »

I have fleas... they itch.

I caught fleas once.

Don't date Khajiit girls.

Samadhi

Orchish wrote: »

As somebody mentioned above, the problem is that in both PvE and PvP you are MUCH stronger in your normal form than when you transform into a WW. It's not an ultimate, it's a joke.

It's probably a good thing that I can laugh at myself.

Samadhi

TheBull wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Fix the bugging of transformation when transforming in large groups.
Lower the cost to about 300
Allow them to break hard cc with rmb-lmb
...

Yeah, these all seem pretty pertinent.
My build is set up to generate ultimate relatively quickly, so the cost isn't as huge to me.
CC break is a must though.

TheBull wrote: »

...
Nothing else. For the most part people are playing WW wrong. WW is not a single person encounter ult. WW is the ultimate Zerg breaker. Spamable AoE fears that set off balance. Leap that knocks down and does dmg. Increased ult gain, etc.

I'm sure the ad and ep on wabba can tell you about the white wolf

Yeah, I'm getting that impression of it. I'm thinking I will end up putting Werewolf on just one of my bars so that I have the option to transform, then keeping my Nightblade ultimate on the other so I still have access to it in my 1v1s.

If you are DC on NA server, perhaps I will see you in the charge after the FPS issue is fixed.
Right now even small-scale battles are giving me drops. I'd like to attribute my poor PvP performance as a WW to the FPS issue, but I still think it is more a matter of issues with WW itself lol. (aside from my obvious lack of skills as a player)

Yeah, it takes a while to get the feel. You are able dodge roll (lunge on all fours) out of soft cc which is nice. Don't expect to go all DK solo in a crowd of ten. You need healers behind you. As long as you are up though you make you team significantly stronger with control and ult gain.

Yeah the group functionality seems appealing; it's just too bad I generally prefer solo play.
Hopefully I'll find a solid small group to run with, or get my friends more interested in PvP.

Samadhi

Tendeep wrote: »

sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »

The issues you note are not going to be fixed. WW is being ignored by ZOS and actually got worse this patch. They have no inkling to fix anything as ZOS feels its not broken.
BS. Its the WORST implementation ever and whoever thought this up should be fired.

Sadly this is the truth, and sadly they get upset when we start demanding fixes lol - but to be honest, they did this to themselves. We only demand a product that works, too much does not, so they have no right to get mad at us for paying for something that is hosed.
- I hate to say it, but they need to suck it up and accept the flames and demands, too many aspects of this MMO are bugged or broken.
-
I personally have been discussing the broken WW aspect since release and is has had 0! 0! 0! ZOS notice.

I'm an optimist and like to pretend that ZOS is working behind the scenes to fix these things.

I can comprehend your frustrations though. Release was months ago and this has yet to be given a meaningful examination.

ExiledKhallisi

-Time getting killed by silver bolts/poison damage 18%
-time playing normally 70%
-Time going out of way to grind ultimate that randomly goes away sometimes 10%
-Time spent in actual warewolf form 2%

^

This is whats wrong with warewolves.

What a terribe terrible skill line.... passives suck.
Ultimate cost WAY to absurdly high.
Stamina sucks.

Soothy

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

-Time going out of way to grind ultimate that randomly goes away sometimes 10%

I asked my guild about this some time ago (when it actually had any players that logged in) and someone suggested that the Werewolf ultimate disappears after about 5 minutes of not killing an npc (or I assume player?). I monitored it and that seemed about right. I didn't /bug it because I don't know if this is working as intended?

Inzababa

I would like to see them viable in pvp

Samadhi

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

-Time getting killed by silver bolts/poison damage 18%
-time playing normally 70%
-Time going out of way to grind ultimate that randomly goes away sometimes 10%
-Time spent in actual warewolf form 2%

^

This is whats wrong with warewolves.

What a terribe terrible skill line.... passives suck.
Ultimate cost WAY to absurdly high.
Stamina sucks.

Silver Bolts is set to be fixed next patch, and I at least have Poison resistance as a Bosmer; however, I can get where you are coming from with the rest of your sentiments.

Samadhi

Inzababa wrote: »

I would like to see them viable in pvp

I really look forward to such a day.

RedMiniStapler

I saw a werewolf transform and went all 'rawr!' and shred the shiz outta mobs in a dungeon. I stood there and watched in absolute 'awe'

TheBull

Soothy wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

-Time going out of way to grind ultimate that randomly goes away sometimes 10%

I asked my guild about this some time ago (when it actually had any players that logged in) and someone suggested that the Werewolf ultimate disappears after about 5 minutes of not killing an npc (or I assume player?). I monitored it and that seemed about right. I didn't /bug it because I don't know if this is working as intended?

This has been fix/changed with 1.2.3. The timer is closer to 20 mins now.

Lyall84

c0rp wrote: »

My issue is the fact that im stronger in human form, and have MORE survivability than in WW form....uhhh yea, ok...

I agree, I think it is messed up that when we go WW, we basically lose our weapons. If you look at your WW stats, all weapon damage and passives get ignored. If they added weapon damage to our basic WW form attacks, that would help greatly. Also if they made it so weapon passives also effected WW form that would help. For example, 2hand splash damage, or DW increase damage to staggered opponents, or reduction to block with S&S, hell, even the heal on heavy strike with resto staff. Make it so some of the weapons passives are not wasted during the ultimate.

Lyall84

Another big fix is that we should not lose any ultimate gained while in wolf form once the transformation ends. It completely negates any self benefit of pack leader, and if you take the time to transform as a pack. If they let us keep the 200 to 300 ultimate I usually gain each transformation, it would make the 750 cost not as painful.

Samadhi

TheBull wrote: »

Soothy wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

-Time going out of way to grind ultimate that randomly goes away sometimes 10%

I asked my guild about this some time ago (when it actually had any players that logged in) and someone suggested that the Werewolf ultimate disappears after about 5 minutes of not killing an npc (or I assume player?). I monitored it and that seemed about right. I didn't /bug it because I don't know if this is working as intended?

This has been fix/changed with 1.2.3. The timer is closer to 20 mins now.

Well that is certainly good news at least.

Samadhi

Lyall84 wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

My issue is the fact that im stronger in human form, and have MORE survivability than in WW form....uhhh yea, ok...

I agree, I think it is messed up that when we go WW, we basically lose our weapons. If you look at your WW stats, all weapon damage and passives get ignored. If they added weapon damage to our basic WW form attacks, that would help greatly. Also if they made it so weapon passives also effected WW form that would help. For example, 2hand splash damage, or DW increase damage to staggered opponents, or reduction to block with S&S, hell, even the heal on heavy strike with resto staff. Make it so some of the weapons passives are not wasted during the ultimate.

I checked this out after reading your post.
I lose 8% of my weapon crit by transforming; I also lose almost 100 health from slotted passives.
That's unfortunate.

Samadhi

Lyall84 wrote: »

Another big fix is that we should not lose any ultimate gained while in wolf form once the transformation ends. It completely negates any self benefit of pack leader, and if you take the time to transform as a pack. If they let us keep the 200 to 300 ultimate I usually gain each transformation, it would make the 750 cost not as painful.

Yeah this would definitely go a long way to mitigating some of the issues with transform time.
My ultimate counter shows me generating hundreds of Ultimate points while transformed, then once it wears out I drop back to zero.