Class skills = weapon or spell crit?

pinstripesc

Hey all. Do class skills crit off of weapon or spell critical?

I also heard critting grants you more ultimate, is that right?

AlexDrago

All class skills based on spell dmg and spell crit/
All weapon skills (and mana based, yes) based on weapon dmg and weapon crit.

pinstripesc

Cool, thanks kindly.

Maulkin

AlexDrago wrote: »

All class skills based on spell dmg and spell crit/
All weapon skills (and mana based, yes) based on weapon dmg and weapon crit.

Completely incorrect!

Melee class skills are based off weapon crit.

Example are:
Templar: Biting Jabs
DK: Lava Whip, Unstable Flame etc

The DoTs however of melee class skills are driven off spell crit.

So Unstable Flame's initial attack crits off weapon crit, while the DoT crits off spell crit.

TIP: If your skill does huge damage from stealth, you know it crits off weapon crit and it's mitigated by armour NOT spell res. Irrelevant to the crit, but if the cost is magicka then the damage scales with Max Magicka + Spell Damage, even if the crit is weapon crit and the mitigation is armour.

PBpsy

AlexDrago wrote: »

All class skills based on spell dmg and spell crit/
All weapon skills (and mana based, yes) based on weapon dmg and weapon crit.

Incorrect. Half of it.

All class skills scale with magicka /spell power.Weapon damage doesn't help.

Some class skills but not all use spell crit while others use weapon crit.
I am not sure if it is true for all classes but for NB all skills that look like using a weapon use weapon crit. Teleport strike/Veiled Strike/Death Stroke and their morphs all use weapon crit.

pinstripesc

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

AlexDrago wrote: »

All class skills based on spell dmg and spell crit/
All weapon skills (and mana based, yes) based on weapon dmg and weapon crit.

Completely incorrect!

Melee class skills are based off weapon crit.

Example are:
Templar: Biting Jabs
DK: Lava Whip, Unstable Flame etc

The DoTs however of melee class skills are driven off spell crit.

So Unstable Flame's initial attack crits off weapon crit, while the DoT crits off spell crit.

TIP: If your skill does huge damage from stealth, you know it crits off weapon crit and it's mitigated by armour NOT spell res. Irrelevant to the crit, but if the cost is magicka then the damage scales with Max Magicka + Spell Damage, even if the crit is weapon crit and the mitigation is armour.

omg. Well, thanks for that. I hope those clarifications to skill tooltips they mentioned make this a little less crazy to remember.

pinstripesc

PBpsy wrote: »

AlexDrago wrote: »

All class skills based on spell dmg and spell crit/
All weapon skills (and mana based, yes) based on weapon dmg and weapon crit.

Incorrect. Half of it.

All class skills scale with magicka /spell power.Weapon damage doesn't help.

Some class skills but not all use spell crit while others use weapon crit.
I am not sure if it is true for all classes but for NB all skills that look like using a weapon use weapon crit. Teleport strike/Veiled Strike/Death Stroke and their morphs all use weapon crit.

Ok, ok, I'm seeing it. So for instance, Veiled Strike's damage would be increased by magicka, but it crits off of your weapon critical. Dicey.

Maulkin

pinstripesc wrote: »

omg. Well, thanks for that. I hope those clarifications to skill tooltips they mentioned make this a little less crazy to remember.

Nah they seem to prefer to keep it simple so as not to confuse folks. They like making it a pain for theorycrafters too.

Have a look at this video, it's the best at explaining how to test your skills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGOwZHb4sXY

pinstripesc

Thanks Mike.

eliisra

Mele class skills are based on spell dmg + weapon crit.
Ranged class skills are spell dmg + spell crit

RestoDestro staffs are based on weapon dmg + spell crit
Other weapon skills lines are weapon dmg + weapon crit

Mages guild and Soul Magic should be spell dmg and spell crit consistently.

Not sure about vampire, Fighters guild or Alliance War skills lines. I can probably make pretty accurate guesses, based on what uses stamina and magicka. But still, this system is a bit messy and random, so I rather have someone else doing it.

Would be nice it these things where included in the skills tool tip.

flow.currypoteb17_ESO

yeah, i stopped playing for now. so they can fix the alpha, but that needs to be done. a message so we can see what kind of dmg it is. Weapon or Spell.


cause i have heared, that the impulse (5th skill from the de-staff) is based on weapon dmg... what u say on that

Maulkin

flow.currypoteb17_ESO wrote: »

yeah, i stopped playing for now. so they can fix the alpha, but that needs to be done. a message so we can see what kind of dmg it is. Weapon or Spell.


cause i have heared, that the impulse (5th skill from the de-staff) is based on weapon dmg... what u say on that

All weapon attacks are driven from Weapon Damage. Otherwise a v12 Staff would be no different to a lvl 30 staff. Your impusle becomes stronger the better your staff.

This at least makes perfect sense

eliisra

All Destruction Staffs are based on weapon dmg + spell crit, that includes Impulse. You are correct.

That's why a lot of players use Flawless Dawnbreaker as Ultimate, since it passively boosts weapon dmg and of course the Impulse dmg as well.

Akhratos

Its true. Impulse damage scales based on weapon damage, but is spell crit based.

Hilgara

class abilities that are melee(<5 meters) use weapon crit.

kitsinni

I'm sure there are some exceptions but the general rule seems to be.

All weapon skills based off weapon damage and weapon crit except staves which are weapon damage and spell crit. I believe bows are based off weapon damage and weapon crit even though they are not in melee range they may be the exception. I have not tested it to be honest.

All class skill based off magicka/spell damage the one that pre-morph are done in less thatn 8m or melee range are based off of weapon crit all done at range pre-morph are based off spell crit. I say pre-morph because if you look at something like Assasin's Blade in Nightblade pre-moroph it is 5m melee attack but the morph Impale is 15m but is still based off of weapon crit.

PBpsy

Impulse also scales with magicka. It's weapon damage+magicka and spell crit.

thorspark

Well, this may look a bit confusing, but Weapon Crit in Character Sheet is not really Weapon Crit, but Physical Crit.

You can see it in the french character sheet "Chances de critique physique"

So the rule is quite simple :

Your skill does physical damage = it uses "Weapon" Crit

Your skill does magic/elemental damage = it uses "Spell" Crit

DeLindsay

Keep in mind ZoS is aware of and not happy with abilities scaling off of a resource they don't use and will be addressing it in the future. It was Paul Sage who said that. Whenever they get around to changing the mechanics of it, anything that costs Magicka will scale off of Magicka/Spell Crit/Spell Damage and Stamina the same. He gave no ETA as to any changes so I'd expect that means it's low on their priority list and likely months away.

AlexDrago

thorspark wrote: »

So the rule is quite simple :

Your skill does physical damage = it uses "Weapon" Crit

Your skill does magic/elemental damage = it uses "Spell" Crit

And thats what i mean. Thank you. ^_^

Dayv

I don't know who to believe. This game is annoyingly opaque. For immersion you get a minimalist hud, and most stats are hidden away, but then you get a steep ramp up in VR where you can't get away with just playing by feel. ZOS really ought to clarify the stats

Hilgara

Dayv wrote: »

I don't know who to believe. This game is annoyingly opaque. For immersion you get a minimalist hud, and most stats are hidden away, but then you get a steep ramp up in VR where you can't get away with just playing by feel. ZOS really ought to clarify the stats

I don't think there is much disagreement here. Most people seem to agree.....which is a milestone in itself on this forum

Maulkin

A similar discussion a while back and a lot of testing is what prompted me to switch from DK to Sorc for my main PvP char.

See with the DK my main bar consisted of Shield Charge, Talons and Lava Whip for damage, plus Reflective Scale and Green Dragon Blood for survivability. Pretty standard for a Sword & Board, melee DK.

The damage of those attacks crit with weapon crit, so I was tempted to go for Medium Armour. However only shield charge uses stamina and if you wear medium you lose the spell cost reduction and thus the sustain you get with light armour. If however you go for light armour, you lose the melee crit. It's a horrible dilemma.

On the other hand my Sorc wears full light armour. Since all class attacks and staff attacks crit with spell crit, I get both sustain and crit% by wearing light armour. Problem solved

The issue is not with armour in my opinion, that is working as it should be, it's with class skills. If melee class skills do physical harm and crit with weapon crit, they should arguably use stamina as a resource. That would mix up the class skills a bit and add value to the melee warrior and the stamina builds.

This is not about DKs either. NBs would benefit greatly from such a change and Templar tanks too.

kitsinni

thorspark wrote: »

Well, this may look a bit confusing, but Weapon Crit in Character Sheet is not really Weapon Crit, but Physical Crit.

You can see it in the french character sheet "Chances de critique physique"

So the rule is quite simple :

Your skill does physical damage = it uses "Weapon" Crit

Your skill does magic/elemental damage = it uses "Spell" Crit

Actually this isn't true exactly. For example all of the "melee" skills from Nightblade are magic damage but rely on weapon crit. This has been tested many times.

Maulkin

kitsinni wrote: »

thorspark wrote: »

Well, this may look a bit confusing, but Weapon Crit in Character Sheet is not really Weapon Crit, but Physical Crit.

You can see it in the french character sheet "Chances de critique physique"

So the rule is quite simple :

Your skill does physical damage = it uses "Weapon" Crit

Your skill does magic/elemental damage = it uses "Spell" Crit

Actually this isn't true exactly. For example all of the "melee" skills from Nightblade are magic damage but rely on weapon crit. This has been tested many times.

You are indeed correct. In fact you can completely ignore type of damage it says it does.

Biting Jabs says it does magic damage but it actually crits off weapon crit and gets mitigated by armour, not spell res

Lava whip does Fire (Elemental) Damage but also crits off weapon crit and gets mitigated by armour.

kitsinni

The best way to guess is if the attack pre-morph is done in melee range chances are it works of weapon crit. I figured this out when I was running my Nightblade with over 50% spell crit (magelight on) and about every attack was critting except impale. That is when I started testing it and doing research about it.

Maulkin

kitsinni wrote: »

The best way to guess is if the attack pre-morph is done in melee range chances are it works of weapon crit. I figured this out when I was running my Nightblade with over 50% spell crit (magelight on) and about every attack was critting except impale. That is when I started testing it and doing research about it.

I think the best option is to not guess, but to test for yourself. It takes no more than 5 mins.

First, make sure you don't have the thief stone. Then go to a low level area, take off all your clothes and put only the skill to test and Inner Light on your bar. If the attacks crit , it'll be because of Inner Light which means it uses spell crit. If not it uses weapon crit.

Simples!

kewl

The information posted here was gathered, mostly, by players. They have invested hours testing the effects of various skills. They have spent thousands of gold on respecs. And none of it would be possible without addons.

Please consider this before flaming an addon thread or slamming elite players. Our overall ESO experience is better, as a result of these efforts.

thorspark

So, there is no universal rule ?

In french char sheet, its "Physical Crit" and not "Weapon Crit" which one is it ?
Why then have the use of "Physical Crit" on Magic Damage ?
It's not range related as there are Close range magick attack using "Physical Crit" and others using "Spell Crit"

Please, just add info on skills tooltips : "Spell" "Physical Attack" or "Mixed Spell/Physical"

Just for an example, let's take one spell, Lava Whip :

• It uses magicka
• It's damage scales with max magicka
• It does magic (fire) damage
• It relies on Weapon/Physical crit
• It's damage is mitigated by Armour and not Spell Resist

Where is the logic in that ?

And another question about it then.
When I use a staff, it's not the Weapon/Physical Crit that increases but the Spell one.
So it means that Lava Whip does not benefit the precise trait of you weapon ?

The same goes for biting jabs or all NB skills I suppose ?

Maulkin

thorspark wrote: »

And another question about it then.
When I use a staff, it's not the Weapon/Physical Crit that increases but the Spell one.
So it means that Lava Whip does not benefit the precise trait of you weapon ?

The same goes for biting jabs or all NB skills I suppose ?

This is what the precise trait says



That's pretty clear I think, isn't it?

kitsinni

I guess think of it as using Magic to do a magic physical hit.

It also seems like all the magic based attacks that rely on weapon crit are also mitigated by armor.