The Elder Scrolls Online and why it will ultimately fail

Mablung

I love the Elder Scrolls. I remember the first time I discovered a cave in Morrowind and found Daedric armor and weapons draped across a skeleton or the talking mudcrab. I remember the random Oblivion portals and the fear of what might lie beyond in the same titled ES game. I remember fighting my first dragon in Skyrim. I remember all of the hours of exploration and questing in each of those games, allowing myself to be completely immersed and look at clock wondering where the time went.

I was very excited when it was announced that the Elder Scrolls would finally have a title in the MMO world. I could not imagine how big the world would be. The possibilities for exploration and discovery. Doing the things I loved in the stand alone titles with my friends. When I was accepted into beta over a year ago, I was very anxious. In my mind my expectations would be so far exceeded that I feared playing the game instead of testing it.

I was completely underwhelmed after getting into the game and past the character creation. The tutorial was on rails. The starter island felt that way as well. Questing began to look to me like every other MMO that has been released. So I shelved any fun that I might have wanted to have and proceeded to test the game. I have been in enough betas to know that things constantly evolve and are fixed, buffed, added or removed. My beta experience only took me to level 20 and honestly not much changed.

I never made posts on the beta forums but I did follow all of the hot topics and debates. What I was seeing there was the same thing I had seen while I was in the Warhammer and Star Wars the Old Republic betas. I knew right then what type of game this would be to the community at large and that battle lines would be drawn between the players.

When you have an IP that is beloved by so many it is inevitable that this will occur. There will be differing opinions about how the game should evolve and develop. That is natural and healthy but in this instance I knew without a doubt that this game was doomed simply because of the lack of communication and the perception of being uncaring about the players Zenimax portrayed during the beta process and still portrays into today.

Fast forward to present day. I will skip all of the obvious issues at launch and subsequent problems with patches, communication, etc. Those are definitely dead horses. Over the past few months lines have been drawn here on the forums and you can even see heated debates in zone chat in game. There is no grey area with this game, you either love it or hate it.

These forums have some of the most poisonous people I have ever seen in a gaming community. Complaints are expected. People are going to post negative thoughts, feelings and experience about this game no matter what. I have felt that there has been some good postings and some bad postings in this regard. What never fails however is the quick attacks, insults and attempts to discredit these posters by those who allegedly love and support this game.

It is these people that will ultimately drive the players away from the game. It is these individuals that need to be reigned in and subdued so that disgruntled customers can be retained. I know I for one do not want to play on an empty server but I cannot say that for the aggressors on these forums.

The design of this game has placed too many people with differing playstyles and opinions into one big soup bowl and the final community product is horrible. I am sure this post will definitely see its fair share of 'why are you still here', 'you are the problem', 'stop playing if you are not having fun', and my favorite 'don't read it if it bothers you'.

I care about this game but the sun is setting. Sadly it is on another story that I deeply care about. Ultimately this game fails not because of Zenimax, Firor or Sage. It fails because this community is failing.

Ashtaris

Actually, I could care less if someone rants or posts their displeasure of the game in the Customer Support section. Many of them do have a valid complaint, and since it is a support section, you are most likely to find people who are having issues and rarely hear from those who don't. Overall, I enjoy ESO and think it's a great game. Both I and my wife enjoys exploring Tamriel together and doing the quests. However, that doesn't mean the game is perfect. It has a lot of problems and I've seen many of them myself as I've played through a VR1 DK and level 42 Sorcerer, and I've expressed my thoughts on some of those issues on the forums. In the long run the demise of ESO, if it ever comes to that, will be by the hands of Zenimax itself and nobody else. If they aggressively attack the bugs and communicate with the community, then they have a chance. Otherwise, they might as well write their obituary.

crislevin

i agree in large part.

its the criticism that helps improving the game, those, who only blindly defend the game's sorry problems, are slowly murdering the game they claim to "love".

the discussion can be heated, but even devs and reps understand, however emotional or difficult to hear, complaints are the feedbacks they need.

a game without complaints is a dead game.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Mablung wrote: »

I love the Elder Scrolls. I remember the first time I discovered a cave in Morrowind and found Daedric armor and weapons draped across a skeleton or the talking mudcrab. I remember the random Oblivion portals and the fear of what might lie beyond in the same titled ES game. I remember fighting my first dragon in Skyrim. I remember all of the hours of exploration and questing in each of those games, allowing myself to be completely immersed and look at clock wondering where the time went.

I was very excited when it was announced that the Elder Scrolls would finally have a title in the MMO world. I could not imagine how big the world would be. The possibilities for exploration and discovery. Doing the things I loved in the stand alone titles with my friends. When I was accepted into beta over a year ago, I was very anxious. In my mind my expectations would be so far exceeded that I feared playing the game instead of testing it.

I was completely underwhelmed after getting into the game and past the character creation. The tutorial was on rails. The starter island felt that way as well. Questing began to look to me like every other MMO that has been released. So I shelved any fun that I might have wanted to have and proceeded to test the game. I have been in enough betas to know that things constantly evolve and are fixed, buffed, added or removed. My beta experience only took me to level 20 and honestly not much changed.

I never made posts on the beta forums but I did follow all of the hot topics and debates. What I was seeing there was the same thing I had seen while I was in the Warhammer and Star Wars the Old Republic betas. I knew right then what type of game this would be to the community at large and that battle lines would be drawn between the players.

When you have an IP that is beloved by so many it is inevitable that this will occur. There will be differing opinions about how the game should evolve and develop. That is natural and healthy but in this instance I knew without a doubt that this game was doomed simply because of the lack of communication and the perception of being uncaring about the players Zenimax portrayed during the beta process and still portrays into today.

Fast forward to present day. I will skip all of the obvious issues at launch and subsequent problems with patches, communication, etc. Those are definitely dead horses. Over the past few months lines have been drawn here on the forums and you can even see heated debates in zone chat in game. There is no grey area with this game, you either love it or hate it.

These forums have some of the most poisonous people I have ever seen in a gaming community. Complaints are expected. People are going to post negative thoughts, feelings and experience about this game no matter what. I have felt that there has been some good postings and some bad postings in this regard. What never fails however is the quick attacks, insults and attempts to discredit these posters by those who allegedly love and support this game.

It is these people that will ultimately drive the players away from the game. It is these individuals that need to be reigned in and subdued so that disgruntled customers can be retained. I know I for one do not want to play on an empty server but I cannot say that for the aggressors on these forums.

The design of this game has placed too many people with differing playstyles and opinions into one big soup bowl and the final community product is horrible. I am sure this post will definitely see its fair share of 'why are you still here', 'you are the problem', 'stop playing if you are not having fun', and my favorite 'don't read it if it bothers you'.

I care about this game but the sun is setting. Sadly it is on another story that I deeply care about. Ultimately this game fails not because of Zenimax, Firor or Sage. It fails because this community is failing.

You had a well thought argument until the last paragraph where you blamed the community for the game failing.

xanikk999

Ashtaris wrote: »

Actually, I could care less if someone rants or posts their displeasure of the game in the Customer Support section. Many of them do have a valid complaint, and since it is a support section, you are most likely to find people who are having issues and rarely hear from those who don't. Overall, I enjoy ESO and think it's a great game. Both I and my wife enjoys exploring Tamriel together and doing the quests. However, that doesn't mean the game is perfect. It has a lot of problems and I've seen many of them myself as I've played through a VR1 DK and level 42 Sorcerer, and I've expressed my thoughts on some of those issues on the forums. In the long run the demise of ESO, if it ever comes to that, will be by the hands of Zenimax itself and nobody else. If they aggressively attack the bugs and communicate with the community, then they have a chance. Otherwise, they might as well write their obituary.

Why do people always get this wrong? You actually mean you couldn't care less.

Saying you could care less means you actually care about the issue. That's not what you are trying to say is it?

Loco_Mofo

Sure the community plays a part, but I'd say the game failing falls squarely on Zenimax's shoulders.

Mablung

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

You had a well thought argument until the last paragraph where you blamed the community for the game failing.

It is true. The community, had it been positive and receptive to those have bad experiences, could help in retaining players for the game. Without players the game dies. Period. No amount of patching, fixing, content can keep that from happening if there are no players.

Yes a lot of players left because of the in game issues but now you are left with those who want(ed) to stick it out. The community is seeing to it though that those people are pushed away.

hamon

ultimately fail at what exactly? seems like a silly question but in truth it gets to the heart of the issue.
what they actually set out to achieve would dictate if they have failed or not.

if they wanted to simply make a profit i think they have succeeded.

if they wanted to make a lasting MMO worthy of the elder scrolls franchise with broad appeal i think they have failed.

where they have succeeded is making a benchmark for how MMO's should look in 2014

reggielee

wait...um, so the game will fail due to forum posts? What about the large percentage of players that never go to the forums?

Csub

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

I love the Elder Scrolls. I remember the first time I discovered a cave in Morrowind and found Daedric armor and weapons draped across a skeleton or the talking mudcrab. I remember the random Oblivion portals and the fear of what might lie beyond in the same titled ES game. I remember fighting my first dragon in Skyrim. I remember all of the hours of exploration and questing in each of those games, allowing myself to be completely immersed and look at clock wondering where the time went.

I was very excited when it was announced that the Elder Scrolls would finally have a title in the MMO world. I could not imagine how big the world would be. The possibilities for exploration and discovery. Doing the things I loved in the stand alone titles with my friends. When I was accepted into beta over a year ago, I was very anxious. In my mind my expectations would be so far exceeded that I feared playing the game instead of testing it.

I was completely underwhelmed after getting into the game and past the character creation. The tutorial was on rails. The starter island felt that way as well. Questing began to look to me like every other MMO that has been released. So I shelved any fun that I might have wanted to have and proceeded to test the game. I have been in enough betas to know that things constantly evolve and are fixed, buffed, added or removed. My beta experience only took me to level 20 and honestly not much changed.

I never made posts on the beta forums but I did follow all of the hot topics and debates. What I was seeing there was the same thing I had seen while I was in the Warhammer and Star Wars the Old Republic betas. I knew right then what type of game this would be to the community at large and that battle lines would be drawn between the players.

When you have an IP that is beloved by so many it is inevitable that this will occur. There will be differing opinions about how the game should evolve and develop. That is natural and healthy but in this instance I knew without a doubt that this game was doomed simply because of the lack of communication and the perception of being uncaring about the players Zenimax portrayed during the beta process and still portrays into today.

Fast forward to present day. I will skip all of the obvious issues at launch and subsequent problems with patches, communication, etc. Those are definitely dead horses. Over the past few months lines have been drawn here on the forums and you can even see heated debates in zone chat in game. There is no grey area with this game, you either love it or hate it.

These forums have some of the most poisonous people I have ever seen in a gaming community. Complaints are expected. People are going to post negative thoughts, feelings and experience about this game no matter what. I have felt that there has been some good postings and some bad postings in this regard. What never fails however is the quick attacks, insults and attempts to discredit these posters by those who allegedly love and support this game.

It is these people that will ultimately drive the players away from the game. It is these individuals that need to be reigned in and subdued so that disgruntled customers can be retained. I know I for one do not want to play on an empty server but I cannot say that for the aggressors on these forums.

The design of this game has placed too many people with differing playstyles and opinions into one big soup bowl and the final community product is horrible. I am sure this post will definitely see its fair share of 'why are you still here', 'you are the problem', 'stop playing if you are not having fun', and my favorite 'don't read it if it bothers you'.

I care about this game but the sun is setting. Sadly it is on another story that I deeply care about. Ultimately this game fails not because of Zenimax, Firor or Sage. It fails because this community is failing.

You had a well thought argument until the last paragraph where you blamed the community for the game failing.

For a change, I agree with you. Many of the people who left game did not even check the forums out in my opinion, it is more likely that the game itself had features/bugs they couldn't live with.

People attacking and defending the game either constructively or not will hardly cause the game to fail in my opinion.

For the most part, I agree with you, they should and hopefully will get better at developing and fixing content and communicating with us. To me, it seems like they are paying attention to us, they are not always quick to communicate it.

I just hope they will do something about VR content. Much as I like it personally, many people leave because it is a must. Making It optional and introducing alternative ways to leveling up, via dungeons, pvp, maybe even crafting and exploring, would also make a lot of people happier.

SFBryan18

Mablung wrote: »

These forums have some of the most poisonous people I have ever seen in a gaming community. Complaints are expected. People are going to post negative thoughts, feelings and experience about this game no matter what. I have felt that there has been some good postings and some bad postings in this regard. What never fails however is the quick attacks, insults and attempts to discredit these posters by those who allegedly love and support this game.

Oh the hypocrisy...

ShedsHisTail

What factor determines "failure" to you?
I ask because you said "ultimately" in the subject heading, which means you're talking about the conclusion of the game (ie: when the servers go offline).

So how do you define failure?

Or is this internet failure, where it just means, "Anything I think is dumb."

Animal_Mother

These forums have some of the most poisonous people I have ever seen in a gaming community. Complaints are expected. People are going to post negative thoughts, feelings and experience about this game no matter what. I have felt that there has been some good postings and some bad postings in this regard. What never fails however is the quick attacks, insults and attempts to discredit these posters by those who allegedly love and support this game.

It is these people that will ultimately drive the players away from the game. It is these individuals that need to be reigned in and subdued so that disgruntled customers can be retained. I know I for one do not want to play on an empty server but I cannot say that for the aggressors on these forums.

The design of this game has placed too many people with differing playstyles and opinions into one big soup bowl and the final community product is horrible. I am sure this post will definitely see its fair share of 'why are you still here', 'you are the problem', 'stop playing if you are not having fun', and my favorite 'don't read it if it bothers you'.

I care about this game but the sun is setting. Sadly it is on another story that I deeply care about. Ultimately this game fails not because of Zenimax, Firor or Sage. It fails because this community is failing.

The pot calling the kettle black.

The only problem I have with the forums is the large number of ESO will fail because of ... threads.

Catches_the_Sun

@Mablung I completely agree with you. I've seen it first-hand with Guildmates & Friends. Some of them having a very positive experience until reading too much zone chat or spending time on these forums. Following that, they start to complain about issues that they aren't even personally experiencing, but that they're reading about. The negativity gets contagious.

These forums are full of negative people. I think part of that stems from the fact that you don't have to keep an active account to maintain your Forum account here. One recent poll showed 22-24% of the Forum population is made up of players that quit. They complain about issues that are old news, already fixed, or that they've read about from other players, not even having an active account themselves. They left the game and want to feel justified in that decision, hoping & praying that it fails.

SFBryan18

heinsjb14_ESO wrote: »

The pot calling the kettle black.

Seriously. I've seen hypocrisy on internet forums, but this guy really takes the cake. One of my biggest pet peeves is hypocrisy. It's fine to have an opinion, but when you start pointing fingers, you better not be guilty yourself.

badmojo

You said it, we either love it or hate it.

My question is, why are you fighting to keep the people who hate it here? Why are disgruntled customers something that should be retained? Why are they good for this community & game?(Other than the obvious money they bring, because frankly, I don't care about the profits of a billion dollar company.)

Feedback is great, but when some people simply hate almost everything about the game, and become disgruntled in the forums because people don't enjoy their constant complaining and doom & gloom attitude brought into every post, that's no longer feedback, it's something more.

Mordria

Mablung wrote: »

snip

Whatever. Every mmo since the beginning of mmos has whiners on the forums. They are the loudest voices because the people enjoying the game actually play and don't post much. So stop with your doom and gloom crap already.

R1ckyDaMan

Zone chat, I thought they took it out, have not seen it pop it in well, ages...

Mablung

hamon wrote: »

ultimately fail at what exactly? seems like a silly question but in truth it gets to the heart of the issue.
what they actually set out to achieve would dictate if they have failed or not.

if they wanted to simply make a profit i think they have succeeded.

if they wanted to make a lasting MMO worthy of the elder scrolls franchise with broad appeal i think they have failed.

where they have succeeded is making a benchmark for how MMO's should look in 2014

Why must we view it from their perspective in regards to failing or succeeding? My belief is that the game is failing because of some very large tumors in this community. Some of which have spread to this very thread. Nothing constructive or positive ever comes from any of their posts no matter what the topic is, especially if it is created by some with real issues about the game.

It is pure speculation on our part to say whether the game is successful or a failure based upon the company objectives. We do not know what those objectives are and do not know the results.

Ultimately we do know that there are fewer and fewer friends, guildmates and random people in the zones. My contention is no only is this symptomatic of the game flaws but because of this community.

If people had someone to commiserate with, they might stick around and tough it out through the growing pains. So many White Knights though tell them the game is better off without them. Those angry about the game then think, screw it. Its not worth it, when we can as a community can make it worth it.

I hope I answered your question.

Mablung

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

What factor determines "failure" to you?
I ask because you said "ultimately" in the subject heading, which means you're talking about the conclusion of the game (ie: when the servers go offline).

So how do you define failure?

Or is this internet failure, where it just means, "Anything I think is dumb."

Absolutely not. As stated in my previous post an empty server is a failure to me. Not feeling that there is a community behind you is failure. People telling people to go ahead and leave, hateful comments and attempts to segregate the community into TES and MMO fans is failing.

Mablung

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

@Mablung I completely agree with you. I've seen it first-hand with Guildmates & Friends. Some of them having a very positive experience until reading too much zone chat or spending time on these forums. Following that, they start to complain about issues that they aren't even personally experiencing, but that they're reading about. The negativity gets contagious.

These forums are full of negative people. I think part of that stems from the fact that you don't have to keep an active account to maintain your Forum account here. One recent poll showed 22-24% of the Forum population is made up of players that quit. They complain about issues that are old news, already fixed, or that they've read about from other players, not even having an active account themselves. They left the game and want to feel justified in that decision, hoping & praying that it fails.

I think another feeling is that people who do leave and have visited these forums or any other forums where negativity reigns, want the game to fail also just to spite those hateful people who contribute to that proverbial bitter taste in your mouth.

ShedsHisTail

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

What factor determines "failure" to you?
I ask because you said "ultimately" in the subject heading, which means you're talking about the conclusion of the game (ie: when the servers go offline).

So how do you define failure?

Or is this internet failure, where it just means, "Anything I think is dumb."

Absolutely not. As stated in my previous post an empty server is a failure to me. Not feeling that there is a community behind you is failure. People telling people to go ahead and leave, hateful comments and attempts to segregate the community into TES and MMO fans is failing.

Aside from perhaps the "empty server" issue, all of those are failures of the Community, not the game or the Dev team.

Just because the game may not be 100% of what people expected or wanted doesn't give anyone a free pass to be inconsiderate or nasty to other members of the community. The opposing factions of players (which I've never witnessed, but I'll humor you) are again, a failing of the community at large, not that game.

We, as people, as a community, can choose whether to be constructive and support the game we all paid for a -want- to love, or we can choose to be rude to one another.

Neither of those choices are the product or failure of Zenimax Media or the Elder Scrolls Online or any of the content we did or did not get.

hamon

Mablung wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

ultimately fail at what exactly? seems like a silly question but in truth it gets to the heart of the issue.
what they actually set out to achieve would dictate if they have failed or not.

if they wanted to simply make a profit i think they have succeeded.

if they wanted to make a lasting MMO worthy of the elder scrolls franchise with broad appeal i think they have failed.

where they have succeeded is making a benchmark for how MMO's should look in 2014

Why must we view it from their perspective in regards to failing or succeeding? My belief is that the game is failing because of some very large tumors in this community. Some of which have spread to this very thread. Nothing constructive or positive ever comes from any of their posts no matter what the topic is, especially if it is created by some with real issues about the game.

It is pure speculation on our part to say whether the game is successful or a failure based upon the company objectives. We do not know what those objectives are and do not know the results.

Ultimately we do know that there are fewer and fewer friends, guildmates and random people in the zones. My contention is no only is this symptomatic of the game flaws but because of this community.

If people had someone to commiserate with, they might stick around and tough it out through the growing pains. So many White Knights though tell them the game is better off without them. Those angry about the game then think, screw it. Its not worth it, when we can as a community can make it worth it.

I hope I answered your question.

not really cos after naming the thread "why i think it will ultimately fail" I was pointing out that with no frame of refrence as to what failure would be , it becomes hard to debate whether it will ultimately fail or not.

everyone from customers to zos will have thier own interpretation of where failure is. So we need to decide where to put it for the purpose of this thread.

fail to make money? fail to last 5 years? fail to please a certain demographic of players?

from my perspective it clearly has failed in some ways but in fairness has succeded in others so far.

for example I would say it hasn't failed to deliver enough fun and value for me to feel i got my moneys worth. (1-50 was epic fun) but It has failed to reach it's potential by a massive amount.

Mablung

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

What factor determines "failure" to you?
I ask because you said "ultimately" in the subject heading, which means you're talking about the conclusion of the game (ie: when the servers go offline).

So how do you define failure?

Or is this internet failure, where it just means, "Anything I think is dumb."

Absolutely not. As stated in my previous post an empty server is a failure to me. Not feeling that there is a community behind you is failure. People telling people to go ahead and leave, hateful comments and attempts to segregate the community into TES and MMO fans is failing.

Aside from perhaps the "empty server" issue, all of those are failures of the Community, not the game or the Dev team.

Just because the game may not be 100% of what people expected or wanted doesn't give anyone a free pass to be inconsiderate or nasty to other members of the community. The opposing factions of players (which I've never witnessed, but I'll humor you) are again, a failing of the community at large, not that game.

We, as people, as a community, can choose whether to be constructive and support the game we all paid for a -want- to love, or we can choose to be rude to one another.

Neither of those choices are the product or failure of Zenimax Media or the Elder Scrolls Online or any of the content we did or did not get.

If you read the final statement of my original post, I blame the community. So I am not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing.

Mablung

hamon wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

ultimately fail at what exactly? seems like a silly question but in truth it gets to the heart of the issue.
what they actually set out to achieve would dictate if they have failed or not.

if they wanted to simply make a profit i think they have succeeded.

if they wanted to make a lasting MMO worthy of the elder scrolls franchise with broad appeal i think they have failed.

where they have succeeded is making a benchmark for how MMO's should look in 2014

Why must we view it from their perspective in regards to failing or succeeding? My belief is that the game is failing because of some very large tumors in this community. Some of which have spread to this very thread. Nothing constructive or positive ever comes from any of their posts no matter what the topic is, especially if it is created by some with real issues about the game.

It is pure speculation on our part to say whether the game is successful or a failure based upon the company objectives. We do not know what those objectives are and do not know the results.

Ultimately we do know that there are fewer and fewer friends, guildmates and random people in the zones. My contention is no only is this symptomatic of the game flaws but because of this community.

If people had someone to commiserate with, they might stick around and tough it out through the growing pains. So many White Knights though tell them the game is better off without them. Those angry about the game then think, screw it. Its not worth it, when we can as a community can make it worth it.

I hope I answered your question.

not really cos after naming the thread "why i think it will ultimately fail" I was pointing out that with no frame of refrence as to what failure would be , it becomes hard to debate whether it will ultimately fail or not.

everyone from customers to zos will have thier own interpretation of where failure is. So we need to decide where to put it for the purpose of this thread.

fail to make money? fail to last 5 years? fail to please a certain demographic of players?

from my perspective it clearly has failed in some ways but in fairness has succeded in others so far.

I am not sure why you want to itemize failure. That is not the intent of my post. As a whole the game will fail not only because of game flaws but ultimately because of this community.

AelyinESO

People will less complain, when a HIGH STAFF LEVEL, starts to answers all "global" questions, and forget about it, complains will never stop, and this forum is not the worst. (I.E. Diablo 3).

Zenimax already know about all issues, believe they know ALL ISSUES and they won't give us all answers for now, will be coming in little pieces.

And we have some ways to keep going:

1. UNSUB, and back later;
2. Cancel, and try T4C, what about Tibia, back to play WoW, I dunno but stop to get nervous.
3. Forget about all issues and remember, game just started (2 months).
4. Go Play, yes go play something else, what about soccer? football? Hockey? Date? I dunno....

ShedsHisTail

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

What factor determines "failure" to you?
I ask because you said "ultimately" in the subject heading, which means you're talking about the conclusion of the game (ie: when the servers go offline).

So how do you define failure?

Or is this internet failure, where it just means, "Anything I think is dumb."

Absolutely not. As stated in my previous post an empty server is a failure to me. Not feeling that there is a community behind you is failure. People telling people to go ahead and leave, hateful comments and attempts to segregate the community into TES and MMO fans is failing.

Aside from perhaps the "empty server" issue, all of those are failures of the Community, not the game or the Dev team.

Just because the game may not be 100% of what people expected or wanted doesn't give anyone a free pass to be inconsiderate or nasty to other members of the community. The opposing factions of players (which I've never witnessed, but I'll humor you) are again, a failing of the community at large, not that game.

We, as people, as a community, can choose whether to be constructive and support the game we all paid for a -want- to love, or we can choose to be rude to one another.

Neither of those choices are the product or failure of Zenimax Media or the Elder Scrolls Online or any of the content we did or did not get.

If you read the final statement of my original post, I blame the community. So I am not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing.

You put the responsibility on the community but blame the developers for causing a caustic community environment by bringing too many people with too many different perspectives together.

"The design of this game has placed too many people with differing playstyles and opinions into one big soup bowl and the final community product is horrible."

I'm saying that that's irrelevant, we don't have to be terrible, regardless of our perspectives, playstyles or opinions.

We're essentially on the same page, though.

Mablung

AelyinESO wrote: »

People will less complain, when a HIGH STAFF LEVEL, starts to answers all "global" questions, and forget about it, complains will never stop, and this forum is not the worst. (I.E. Diablo 3).

Zenimax already know about all issues, believe they know ALL ISSUES and they won't give us all answers for now, will be coming in little pieces.

And we have some ways to keep going:

1. UNSUB, and back later;
2. Cancel, and try T4C, what about Tibia, back to play WoW, I dunno but stop to get nervous.
3. Forget about all issues and remember, game just started (2 months).
4. Go Play, yes go play something else, what about soccer? football? Hockey? Date? I dunno....

Diablo 3 is a good reference. I had forgot how bad that community was and how vocal. But guess what, they changed the game because of the community.

Mablung

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

What factor determines "failure" to you?
I ask because you said "ultimately" in the subject heading, which means you're talking about the conclusion of the game (ie: when the servers go offline).

So how do you define failure?

Or is this internet failure, where it just means, "Anything I think is dumb."

Absolutely not. As stated in my previous post an empty server is a failure to me. Not feeling that there is a community behind you is failure. People telling people to go ahead and leave, hateful comments and attempts to segregate the community into TES and MMO fans is failing.

Aside from perhaps the "empty server" issue, all of those are failures of the Community, not the game or the Dev team.

Just because the game may not be 100% of what people expected or wanted doesn't give anyone a free pass to be inconsiderate or nasty to other members of the community. The opposing factions of players (which I've never witnessed, but I'll humor you) are again, a failing of the community at large, not that game.

We, as people, as a community, can choose whether to be constructive and support the game we all paid for a -want- to love, or we can choose to be rude to one another.

Neither of those choices are the product or failure of Zenimax Media or the Elder Scrolls Online or any of the content we did or did not get.

If you read the final statement of my original post, I blame the community. So I am not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing.

You put the responsibility on the community but blame the developers for causing a caustic community environment by bringing too many people with too many different perspectives together.

"The design of this game has placed too many people with differing playstyles and opinions into one big soup bowl and the final community product is horrible."

I'm saying that that's irrelevant, we don't have to be terrible, regardless of our perspectives, playstyles or opinions.

We're essentially on the same page, though.

I agree that it should be irrelevant but this game and community clearly shows that it is not.

ShedsHisTail

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

What factor determines "failure" to you?
I ask because you said "ultimately" in the subject heading, which means you're talking about the conclusion of the game (ie: when the servers go offline).

So how do you define failure?

Or is this internet failure, where it just means, "Anything I think is dumb."

Absolutely not. As stated in my previous post an empty server is a failure to me. Not feeling that there is a community behind you is failure. People telling people to go ahead and leave, hateful comments and attempts to segregate the community into TES and MMO fans is failing.

Aside from perhaps the "empty server" issue, all of those are failures of the Community, not the game or the Dev team.

Just because the game may not be 100% of what people expected or wanted doesn't give anyone a free pass to be inconsiderate or nasty to other members of the community. The opposing factions of players (which I've never witnessed, but I'll humor you) are again, a failing of the community at large, not that game.

We, as people, as a community, can choose whether to be constructive and support the game we all paid for a -want- to love, or we can choose to be rude to one another.

Neither of those choices are the product or failure of Zenimax Media or the Elder Scrolls Online or any of the content we did or did not get.

If you read the final statement of my original post, I blame the community. So I am not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing.

You put the responsibility on the community but blame the developers for causing a caustic community environment by bringing too many people with too many different perspectives together.

"The design of this game has placed too many people with differing playstyles and opinions into one big soup bowl and the final community product is horrible."

I'm saying that that's irrelevant, we don't have to be terrible, regardless of our perspectives, playstyles or opinions.

We're essentially on the same page, though.

I agree that it should be irrelevant but this game and community clearly shows that it is not.

Nope.
Still irrelevant. Accept your part, own your actions.

ErykGrimm

Any time people are allowed to post opinions and hearsay in an anonymous fashion, the resulting "community" is going to be despicable. This fact is easily exemplified in today's society, where accountability is a thing of the past. It is simple really. Do what you enjoy doing with those you enjoy doing those things with. Everything else will fall into place. Nothing can be done in a forum about how disguesting people can be. Sad, but true.