Idea to fix Skill Damage scaling based on Magicka/Stamina

dragnier

Currently, magicka skills scale based only on max magicka and stamina skills only on max stamina. This leads to lackluster performance for stamina builds because they have to rely on both where most magicka builds only rely on magicka.

I propose a change in this scaling.

All class skills should scale based on 2/3(Max Magicka + Max Stamina)
Weapon based skills should still only scale based on their primary stat. Magicka for staves and stamina for melee/bow weapons.

For example,

Pure Magicka build:

Roughly 2000-2200 magicka + 1180 base stamina = 3180-3380 x 2/3 = 2120-2253 for damage scaling purposes. That is roughly the same number as the pure magicka build scaling off of only Max Magicka.

Pure Stamina build:

Basically the same as above just swap the stat names.

Hybrid build IF you try to soft cap both stamina and magicka:

Roughly 2000 max for each stat for a total of 4000 x 2/3 = 2667 (roughly). This would promote more Hybrid builds, or at least pure builds would actually have incentive to add to the other stat as well.

That in addition to the different skills having damage tweaks to make them roughly on par across the scale would work wonders in fixing sub-par stamina builds, though it wouldn't be all that is needed due to the extra stamina use from dodge, block, sprint, and bash/interrupt.

dragnier

I really thought this would get more of a response... guess I was wrong.

jelliedsoup

The concept is fine, it's the reality of anything changing.

I have just changed to a 2200 Magicka NB. Previously had around 1400.

dragnier

Heh, I guess you have a point there. I did want more thoughts on whether this would work or not, but seems like a lack of interest.

Soloeus

The current system is good. I have an NB friend who corrected a lot of you forum whiners. He is V10 Khajit Nightblade and deals about 1400 DPS. He also keeps himself fully healed and has never been below half health on group missions, and he also has the ability to pull backup tank if needed.

Stamina Builds work; broken players don't. Stamina build work.

What doesn't work is taking 5 Stamina Abilities and placing them on your bar and pretending you "should" work. What works is having a good 3/2 split or 4/1 split. Use your Magicka to supplement yourself. Most mages do use Stamina as well, they use block, roll dodge, interrupt.

Don't design a bad character that uses 5 Stamina Abilities then complain you aren't effective. Find a few Magic abilities too that you can use to supplement yourself. Wanna know what he said to me?

He told me having 2 heavy armor pieces for the first 2 passives was a waste because the gain in armor is less than 40 damage prevented per 1,000 and that I would get better use on 5/2 Light/Medium than Light/Heavy. He suggested I pick up a few Fighters Guild abilities. I told him I don't use Stamina, I don't ever have 700 Stamina to spend on an ability. He told me when my mana is under half, I have a good spot to use one.

Lesson Learned:

Stamina Builds only "suck" because they people playing them expect virtually any combination of abilities to work. Meanwhile, those who really know how to play them will strike for 1.2k-2k damage.

dragnier

Soloeus wrote: »

The current system is good. I have an NB friend who corrected a lot of you forum whiners. He is V10 Khajit Nightblade and deals about 1400 DPS. He also keeps himself fully healed and has never been below half health on group missions, and he also has the ability to pull backup tank if needed.

Stamina Builds work; broken players don't. Stamina build work.

What doesn't work is taking 5 Stamina Abilities and placing them on your bar and pretending you "should" work. What works is having a good 3/2 split or 4/1 split. Use your Magicka to supplement yourself. Most mages do use Stamina as well, they use block, roll dodge, interrupt.

Don't design a bad character that uses 5 Stamina Abilities then complain you aren't effective. Find a few Magic abilities too that you can use to supplement yourself. Wanna know what he said to me?

He told me having 2 heavy armor pieces for the first 2 passives was a waste because the gain in armor is less than 40 damage prevented per 1,000 and that I would get better use on 5/2 Light/Medium than Light/Heavy. He suggested I pick up a few Fighters Guild abilities. I told him I don't use Stamina, I don't ever have 700 Stamina to spend on an ability. He told me when my mana is under half, I have a good spot to use one.

Lesson Learned:

Stamina Builds only "suck" because they people playing them expect virtually any combination of abilities to work. Meanwhile, those who really know how to play them will strike for 1.2k-2k damage.

^ Hilarious...

But truthfully, you are essentially correct in 5 stamina skills = bad.

What you are wrong about is that you say 5 stamina skills shouldn't be viable. I personally don't use a build like that.

What I do want is equal scaling for class skills no matter what stat you base your build on. The way things are now, if you don't stat for magicka at all, you don't get any effective damage out of class skills. Since class skills are meant to be used no matter what build you have, they should scale relatively equally no matter which stat you base your build on.

Also, 1400 dps? Doubt it unless the fight is a 2 second gank. Burden of proof is on the person claiming it. Post a current video showing a dps meter on the screen of a boss fight in a dungeon or trial and I'll believe you.

jelliedsoup

An NB tank, that I would like to see. I can do reasonable DPS, but I'm squishy as 2 squishy things. I need to roll and dark cloak my arse out every time.

dragnier

jelliedsoup wrote: »

An NB tank, that I would like to see. I can do reasonable DPS, but I'm squishy as 2 squishy things. I need to roll and dark cloak my arse out every time.

I tanked the new dungeon, Crypt of Hearts, on my NB with no noticeable problems other than learning mechanics.

Soloeus

dragnier wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

The current system is good. I have an NB friend who corrected a lot of you forum whiners. He is V10 Khajit Nightblade and deals about 1400 DPS. He also keeps himself fully healed and has never been below half health on group missions, and he also has the ability to pull backup tank if needed.

Stamina Builds work; broken players don't. Stamina build work.

What doesn't work is taking 5 Stamina Abilities and placing them on your bar and pretending you "should" work. What works is having a good 3/2 split or 4/1 split. Use your Magicka to supplement yourself. Most mages do use Stamina as well, they use block, roll dodge, interrupt.

Don't design a bad character that uses 5 Stamina Abilities then complain you aren't effective. Find a few Magic abilities too that you can use to supplement yourself. Wanna know what he said to me?

He told me having 2 heavy armor pieces for the first 2 passives was a waste because the gain in armor is less than 40 damage prevented per 1,000 and that I would get better use on 5/2 Light/Medium than Light/Heavy. He suggested I pick up a few Fighters Guild abilities. I told him I don't use Stamina, I don't ever have 700 Stamina to spend on an ability. He told me when my mana is under half, I have a good spot to use one.

Lesson Learned:

Stamina Builds only "suck" because they people playing them expect virtually any combination of abilities to work. Meanwhile, those who really know how to play them will strike for 1.2k-2k damage.

^ Hilarious...

But truthfully, you are essentially correct in 5 stamina skills = bad.

What you are wrong about is that you say 5 stamina skills shouldn't be viable. I personally don't use a build like that.

What I do want is equal scaling for class skills no matter what stat you base your build on. The way things are now, if you don't stat for magicka at all, you don't get any effective damage out of class skills. Since class skills are meant to be used no matter what build you have, they should scale relatively equally no matter which stat you base your build on.

Also, 1400 dps? Doubt it unless the fight is a 2 second gank. Burden of proof is on the person claiming it. Post a current video showing a dps meter on the screen of a boss fight in a dungeon or trial and I'll believe you.

If you don't stat for Stamina at all as a Magicka user you will run out of Mana resources. Having at least one Stamina Ability (Fighters Guild? Alliance War?) can help a lot.

We don't have youtube accounts. He bursts his DPS and drains his resources in about 10 seconds. His DPS is based on a 10-20 second Burst, enough to end most PVP and PVE fights. When a fight drags to 30 seconds or more his DPS falls to about 700. As a sorcerer, my own DPS is regularly floating around 600-900. That isn't too shabby.

The only way slotting ALL stamina will be viable is if they make a few item sets that reduce the Stamina Cost of Stamina Abilities, and a "Warlock Set" for Stamina Users. Otherwise you will have to use at least ONE magicka ability.

Equal Scaling would be great. I favor allowing Max Stamina to calculate into damage. The only thing I don't favor is when someone wants their Melee/Stamina "Monolith" who doesn't have anything else, and expect that character to be as good as a well rounded character.

monden1980b16_ESO

Nice idea, was thinking about something like this as well (make class skills 50% stamina, 50% magicka dependent)

(Otherwise, I'm really shocked... my vet12 Templar must be really weak (hybrid "DPS" setup as well). I can barely reach 450 dps (burst does not go over 500 dps, sustained is usually below 300 dps). I already noticed that NB are capable to kill me within seconds in PvP. Somethings horribly wrong... But this just as a side note)

Hypertionb14_ESO

so add stamina scaling to damage for class abilitys in addition to the Magicka scaling?

ya i like the idea of making Class abilitys cross dependant on Stam and magicka. its the only thing that would make sense right now...

add the 100% crit damage increase for stamina abilitys and melee phyiscal attacks i suggested a few weeks back and stam builds might finally be on equal footing with magicka builds...