If there's no value to random armor/weaponry you find in the world, what's the value of adding them

Asasin

period?

I think it's a step in the right direction, but I can't think of a single instance where someone would even consider looting Racks if the items are always going to be worth 0 gold and yield very little XP upon deconstruction.

So now we've just got a second and third option for completely pointless looting (the first one being every other single container in the game which 90% of the time has Provisioning supplies: Good for that aspiring Chef, but useless for everyone else).

As a side note, if deleting pre-order bonus items is a legitimate concern (which it is), when a player is deleting a character with such items, why not just either force them into the account bank or return it to the system where it would be available via in-game messaging for that account (much like how the items are acquired in the first place)?

AngryWolf

None. Ignore them.

Slash8915

They are good for people around level 1-10. Or for someone who doesn't pay attention, and lets their gear break while out questing.

NakedSnake

Immersion.

ThePonzzz

If it were immersion, I'd be arrested for stealing all this armor! Banned from the bank! Thrown out of the Ebonheart Pact! Go from Skald-King Arrow to Imperial Scum in seconds!

NakedSnake

Just wait.

AngryWolf

You will get more 'immersion' from a game that works well than a tinker toy sword you can pick up. I hear a lot of complaints about immersion, but this game does it for me...UNTIL...the game issues come up. Nothing like ruining the game than crashing to the desktop, not being able to move, not being able to swap weapons or a quest that is broken to rip you out of your immersion.

I don't buy these tinker toys add immersion at all.

NakedSnake

Honestly though, free mats. I wont complain about a feature that adds to an mmo and does not take anything away.

Malpherian

On Immersion:

I admit, the quests in this game make my character feel important, some of them make me "want" to solve them and do them, which is great, Bethesda and Zenimax have always had good writers.

The problem, as is usually the issue with most games, is not with the Major stuff, like quests, and characters. It's with the environment and world.

Is it logical or realistic for an Armor or weapons rack, Or alchemist table, to "always" have crap on them? No it isn;t, in fact it makes the game "Less" imersive, because when you pick up the item and look at it, your first impression is "This was made a piece of *** on purpose"....."And then Placed here on purpose"

Rather then:

"Huh.. wow.. didn't expect to find this here..." Or "Well it's a stock weapon, but at least I can get some crafting mats out of it".

Everything in game needs to have a "Purpose" which benefits the player doing the action. If a player can interact with something, but that something has no value, or purpose, then it is simply wasting space in game, and useless. It also makes the game look shabby, and the Devs look lazy, because they couldn't be bothered to make it do anything or be anything of value, even if that thing in this case, is a random item of that type (Ie: Sword, Shield, Armor, weapon, Potion, whatever).

But purposely putting things in game which the player can discover and find or pick up and interact with which they requested, and which are useless, knowing full well the player desired something else which wasn;t worthless and useless and could actually serve a purpose.

Is flat out insulting your player base / Customers and telling them "*** you".

Cogo

Malpherian wrote: »

Everything in game needs to have a "Purpose" which benefits the player doing the action. If a player can interact with something, but that something has no value, or purpose, then it is simply wasting space in game, and useless.

I was with you at the start, that lots of things in ESO creates a very nice experience.

But where did you read that everything in ESO needs have a purpose, which benefits?

I cant find it, but I am pretty sure I read a statement from Zenimax that ESO will have a living world, where you can interact with your environment, talk to npcs who just say "hi", or "bugger off".

And this was part of the adding content/stuff every 4-6 weeks to keep Tamriel "living"?

Volkodav

I sooo agree with every post here. >:{

Malpherian

Cogo wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Everything in game needs to have a "Purpose" which benefits the player doing the action. If a player can interact with something, but that something has no value, or purpose, then it is simply wasting space in game, and useless.

I was with you at the start, that lots of things in ESO creates a very nice experience.

But where did you read that everything in ESO needs have a purpose, which benefits?

I cant find it, but I am pretty sure I read a statement from Zenimax that ESO will have a living world, where you can interact with your environment, talk to npcs who just say "hi", or "bugger off".

And this was part of the adding content/stuff every 4-6 weeks to keep Tamriel "living"?

Let me clarify, what I meant by that statement is the the thing needs to bennifit the players "experience". If I walked up to an NPC clicked on them and they just stared at me without saying anything... It would be awkward, but at least they still look pretty. But as far as interaction goes they serve no purpose.

On these new pickupable weapons and armor in game, there is no difference between them now, and when they were stationary and you could not pick them up.

They are still worthless, and serve no purpose. Sure they look nice sitting on the table or rack as a graphic, but they would do that even if you could not loot them. "That" was my point.

The item is intractable. It should have a purpose benefiting the players experience, beyond doing something it was already doing "Before" it was made intractable.

That's what "Immersion" is about. Experiencing things which feel realistic, and these items are not realistic by any means, as the immersion is ruined by the fact that you can obviously tell they were made worthless and pointless to pick up, on purpose..

Enkil

Malpherian wrote: »

On Immersion:

I admit, the quests in this game make my character feel important, some of them make me "want" to solve them and do them, which is great, Bethesda and Zenimax have always had good writers.

The problem, as is usually the issue with most games, is not with the Major stuff, like quests, and characters. It's with the environment and world.

Is it logical or realistic for an Armor or weapons rack, Or alchemist table, to "always" have crap on them? No it isn;t, in fact it makes the game "Less" imersive, because when you pick up the item and look at it, your first impression is "This was made a piece of *** on purpose"....."And then Placed here on purpose"

Rather then:

"Huh.. wow.. didn't expect to find this here..." Or "Well it's a stock weapon, but at least I can get some crafting mats out of it".

Everything in game needs to have a "Purpose" which benefits the player doing the action. If a player can interact with something, but that something has no value, or purpose, then it is simply wasting space in game, and useless. It also makes the game look shabby, and the Devs look lazy, because they couldn't be bothered to make it do anything or be anything of value, even if that thing in this case, is a random item of that type (Ie: Sword, Shield, Armor, weapon, Potion, whatever).

But purposely putting things in game which the player can discover and find or pick up and interact with which they requested, and which are useless, knowing full well the player desired something else which wasn;t worthless and useless and could actually serve a purpose.

Is flat out insulting your player base / Customers and telling them "*** you".

Very well said.. @Cogo it's explanations like this I was referring to in the other thread... It's a great concept but they did it in a way that diminishes and outright tramples the "immersion" factor.

In my opinion, the whole Looting system needs to be overhauled to conform with reality. Raw beef should only be found in barrels or sacks. Things that cannot fit inside a container should never be added to the loot table for that container type (i.e. 2-H weapon in a backpack). Stale bread should not be in noble's nightstand. It's simple things like this that are easily fixable. In the single player games, when you are creating a mod (which i love to do), it's vital that you adhere to basic tenets like these to maintain immersion. Why should there be such a low or even absent standard because it's an MMO?? Loot tables are just databases and very easy to set rules for on a global basis.

Cogo

Ok . I was just curious if they said these items would have a benefit.

I don't think one way or the other, but interacting with the world was promised, and even if its has no value, it does a tiny bit make more sense for me.

Now we both are talking about our opinions about it. If they should have value, then zeni needs to fix that. I was under the impression that they wouldn't tough.

This is very TES btw.....Skyrim was full of junk I filled my house with.

Cogo

Enkil wrote: »

Very well said.. @Cogo it's explanations like this I was referring to in the other thread... It's a great concept but they did it in a way that diminishes and outright tramples the "immersion" factor.

In my opinion, the whole Looting system needs to be overhauled to conform with reality. Raw beef should only be found in barrels or sacks. Things that cannot fit inside a container type should never be added to the loot table for that container (2-H weapon in a backpack). Raw bread should not be in noble's nightstand. It's simple things like this that are easily fixable. In the single player games, when you are creating a mod (which i love to do), it's vital that you adhere to basic tenets like these to maintain immersion. Why should there be such a low or even absent standard because it's an MMO?? Loot tables are just databases and very easy to set rules for on a global basis.

Wooo wooo.. what did I get myself into?!

I only stated they said this was coming, and I was under the impression there would be no value, but just interaction.

Your statement may be right. But don't aim it at me! Hehe.

Dekkameron

I like them, when i first played ESO i was a little disapointed i couldn't just pick up any item i could see.. Now i can! (mostly)

I agree they arnt particulary useful though. but i have seen some very funky pieces of gear laying about that would be cool to RP in etc.

Enkil

Cogo wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

Very well said.. @Cogo it's explanations like this I was referring to in the other thread... It's a great concept but they did it in a way that diminishes and outright tramples the "immersion" factor.

In my opinion, the whole Looting system needs to be overhauled to conform with reality. Raw beef should only be found in barrels or sacks. Things that cannot fit inside a container type should never be added to the loot table for that container (2-H weapon in a backpack). Raw bread should not be in noble's nightstand. It's simple things like this that are easily fixable. In the single player games, when you are creating a mod (which i love to do), it's vital that you adhere to basic tenets like these to maintain immersion. Why should there be such a low or even absent standard because it's an MMO?? Loot tables are just databases and very easy to set rules for on a global basis.

Wooo wooo.. what did I get myself into?!

I only stated they said this was coming, and I was under the impression there would be no value, but just interaction.

Your statement may be right. But don't aim it at me! Hehe.

LOL I only mentioned you because we were discussing it in the other thread. Just a friendly discussion..

badmojo

Thieves Guild. In past Elder Scrolls games you could only sell your stolen merchandise to specific merchant NPCs who would accept them. You could also be arrested for carrying these items. So, when the Thieves Guild gets added later on, the items are already there for the taking.

Cogo

Goodie, I may not be used to friendly discussions. I get jumped sometimes here. But I sure can get used to it!

I really don't think its of any big importance if they are value 0 or 1 gold. As long as they don't put a trait on it or something. Economy is working pretty damn good!

I do feel they should reduce green toilet paper....I mean green recipes drop rate...A LOT. Let them pop from every 4 box, not 1 in every room!

Think about a new player. Who havn't played ESO or MMO before. I think they would see it as useful?

Thinking about it, yeah, I do like more items you can interact with. They do not need to have a value in MY view. Its ok if they do though!

Malpherian

badmojo wrote: »

Thieves Guild. In past Elder Scrolls games you could only sell your stolen merchandise to specific merchant NPCs who would accept them. You could also be arrested for carrying these items. So, when the Thieves Guild gets added later on, the items are already there for the taking.

It wont matter as they have no value, and no purpose, so you wouldnt want to steal these items anyway. (And honestly that probably wont even be a feature, the quest will probably send you to an area for an item that specifically spawns for that quest).

Leafmint

If you look at the long view it might be quite an exiting development.
Say that they add more things you can pick up.
Say that some of these things have owners who would be less than pleased if you do.
Say that there might be someone willing to fence these items, perhaps even a guild of such people.

Perhaps it is a bit of wishful thinking but the thought makes me happy.

Asasin

I like immersion. One of my biggest gripes about the game thus far was that you could only ever find equipment drops on a boss (if you were lucky) or on the odd chest you find in a dungeon. There was no point to exploring because you'd just find the same crap in every dungeon. Even the chests didn't drop good stuff to be honest, usually just a handful of gold, some soul gems, and a weapon that you're not using on that character (or a weapon that's weak compared to what you've already got equipped).

So I was excited when I saw they added the ability to interact with stuff that should actually be interacted with. But then there's no point to it (besides the materials you can get if you decide to spam E > ... whatever the key for "collect all" was, haven't played in a few weeks). There's no excitement behind it if there's no chance of finding something unique, or at least something a little out of the ordinary.

It's one of the same reasons the Dead Island series is so monotonous (and at least a few other big name games). It turns into "TSA Agent Simulator", where your time is consumed by checking countless containers for the sake of getting the barest of bones materials instead of actually finding cool things and just exploring for the heck of it.

I guess the point I'm trying to drive at is that there is no variety in the interaction with the game, and if they're going to add more options for environmental interaction, it should be varied or provide some benefit to the player.

TheDrunkenMagi

All the items I have found have been scaled to my level. So when I decon them I get materials for my level. I've been using this to construct equipment for my level even though the mats I need out level the zone I'm playing in.

Dekkameron

Cogo wrote: »

Goodie, I may not be used to friendly discussions. I get jumped sometimes here. But I sure can get used to it!

I really don't think its of any big importance if they are value 0 or 1 gold. As long as they don't put a trait on it or something. Economy is working pretty damn good!

I do feel they should reduce green toilet paper....I mean green recipes drop rate...A LOT. Let them pop from every 4 box, not 1 in every room!

Think about a new player. Who havn't played ESO or MMO before. I think they would see it as useful?

Thinking about it, yeah, I do like more items you can interact with. They do not need to have a value in MY view. Its ok if they do though!

I know what you mean, ESO is prolly really one of the only games i play that "White" is often good enough (level 3-15). In WoW or LOTRO for instance.. I'd scoff with derision at them.

Cogo

Apart from the green recipes, they've done a fantastic job on gear and economy in general. Hell, a green item from May, still have a value today!

And the mechanics to stop farming etc. Kinda prolongs the game too.
I REALLY like they have rare items that are RARE. Like tomatoes. I had 3 hirelings for months and i got 44 in total.

Didnt like the droprate of motifs, but, at least the rare ones are rare.

And Zeni did state in 1.3 will add really rare items to Graglorn if I am not mistaken?

WoW really messed up gear, lol.

joshisanonymous

For people at the starter levels and otherwise for immersion.

ThePonzzz wrote: »

If it were immersion, I'd be arrested for stealing all this armor! Banned from the bank! Thrown out of the Ebonheart Pact! Go from Skald-King Arrow to Imperial Scum in seconds!

Well, yeah, exactly. They're working on the justice system. The mechanics of being able to steal from locations are now pretty much intact so that they can just add items with value once they figure out how the penalty for stealing will work.

Enkil

joshisanonymous wrote: »

For people at the starter levels and otherwise for immersion.

ThePonzzz wrote: »

If it were immersion, I'd be arrested for stealing all this armor! Banned from the bank! Thrown out of the Ebonheart Pact! Go from Skald-King Arrow to Imperial Scum in seconds!

Well, yeah, exactly. They're working on the justice system. The mechanics of being able to steal from locations are now pretty much intact so that they can just add items with value once they figure out how the penalty for stealing will work.

Right.. and until then, they shouldn't add worthless junk except for levels 1-10. Easy fix.

babylon

Slash8915 wrote: »

They are good for people around level 1-10. Or for someone who doesn't pay attention, and lets their gear break while out questing.

So useful for around .00001% of the game.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

Think ahead guys!

When they add crime and we are no longer able to pick up anything we want without consequence, they will no doubt increase the value of these items and, if going by former Elder Scrolls tradition, only allow you to sell them to a Thieves guild fence

babylon

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Think ahead guys!

When they add crime and we are no longer able to pick up anything we want without consequence, they will no doubt increase the value of these items and, if going by former Elder Scrolls tradition, only allow you to sell them to a Thieves guild fence

Oh you mean when they make it so crafters have to participate in the open world pvp they have planned. Awesome!

joshisanonymous

Enkil wrote: »

joshisanonymous wrote: »

For people at the starter levels and otherwise for immersion.

ThePonzzz wrote: »

If it were immersion, I'd be arrested for stealing all this armor! Banned from the bank! Thrown out of the Ebonheart Pact! Go from Skald-King Arrow to Imperial Scum in seconds!

Well, yeah, exactly. They're working on the justice system. The mechanics of being able to steal from locations are now pretty much intact so that they can just add items with value once they figure out how the penalty for stealing will work.

Right.. and until then, they shouldn't add worthless junk except for levels 1-10. Easy fix.

Wha? It doesn't even matter; you can just not pick up junk that you don't want.

In fact, it's probably better that it's there now because that means any bugs with this stuff will be easily found and fixed by the time the justice system is implemented. For instance, I was picking up bottles off tables yesterday that simply weren't showing up in my inventory. If they waited for the justice system to implement armor looting from tables, they might not have been informed of this bug.