Why are addons like this allowed?

Mordria

I tried it out. It's really nice. Then I uninstalled it realizing I would rarely visit the same spot twice.

Mordria

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Please give a description of what the add on does.

It just marks the spot of nodes you discover on your map.

Elencha

Seriously? This again? For the love of all things holy, there is a definitive answer to what is and is not cheating in any given game. They are called the Terms of Service and End-User License Agreement. Anything not forbidden by those is allowed. Where do all these armchair policemen get the idea that it is their job to find ways that behaviors specifically allowed by the Game Master, (Zeni's essential role in relation to players), are somehow really against the rules?
And if you really feel that way, you can feel free to use the report button in game. I don't see much coming of that action, but if minding other people's business is that important to you, have at it.
I generally try not to be confrontational on forums, but come on already, I've got six younger siblings who never tried this hard to make something out of nothing.

tordr86b16_ESO

WylieCoyote1511 wrote: »

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info57-EsoHeadMarkers.html

Isn't this some form of cheating?

it is not cheating. move along now, nothing to see here.

Lyall84

Blackwidow wrote: »

It is cheating, but it is accepted cheating.

If you took the time to make a map and use that map, it would be much more effort that a built in program.

You might as well say using a car in a foot race is not cheating, because you can still get there on foot.

However, ZOS in it's lack of wisdom let's things like this into the game.

It does not bother me, because bots are much more of a problem. Bots are not cheating either, just a program that let's you pick resources. You could do it manually, like you can manually draw a map, it's just the program does it for you.

Your foot race anology does not make sense, it is more like one running the race with a map and one without. Just because you see the resources, does not mean you dont have to hoof it and pick it up. Bots would be more like the car, traveling the distance for you.

Except automation programs and scripting that plays the game for you is strictly against TOS.

This is clearly not cheating because it does not mess with the games programming or go against TOS. This is no different than using a mod that shows you the number and percent value of health on bars instead of just guessing from the size of the bars. Is it cheating that I can see heath at 25% so I know when to spam an execute ability?

Cudda

Swordguy wrote: »

elderscrollsb16_ESO109 wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

It doesn't feel like cheating for me.

I'm using it so I can see which places on the map I visited too, that way I'm not missing anything.

try :
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info500-TrueExploration.html

I'm gonna grab this one, thanks for the link.

Same here

Soulharvester

WylieCoyote1511 wrote: »

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info57-EsoHeadMarkers.html

Isn't this some form of cheating?

I stopped using add-ons, it takes away from the game experience for me.

I think it makes the game way too easy and some of them are questionable at best in terms of pvp...

Catches_the_Sun

I'm remembering the big complaint that this game doesn't have enough exploration. Yet, the top downloaded addons show you where every harvest node, skyshard & lore book locations. In this era of MMO gaming players expect reward without penalty, exploration with no chance of missing anything & their hands held along the way.

Cogo

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

I'm remembering the big complaint that this game doesn't have enough exploration. Yet, the top downloaded addons show you where every harvest node, skyshard & lore book locations. In this era of MMO gaming players expect reward without penalty, exploration with no chance of missing anything & their hands held along the way.

Yup. Even if it took me time, I feel very rewarded.

Nothing wrong with how anyone wants to play, but most addons are not about combat numbers, best effects and info where to get everything.
Have a look at the huge list of addons available.

Addon should make the game more interesting for you, right? Most do, without giving any info.

If someone wants addons that shows what and where, its up to them, I just think, or know, they missing out of something so simple as ..fun.

Topic cheating software
Lets say Zeni allows software to one-shot anything. Would you REALLY use it? The reason why all here are playing ESO, must include some kind of interest in a real challenge? Or do something different, that YOU did?
If you could 1 shot all bosses in game solo. Is that really want an ESO player is looking for?

Isn't it the rush of finally nailing that damn dragon with blood, might and skill, one of the best feelings in MMOs?

Mablung

Cogo wrote: »

If someone wants addons that shows what and where, its up to them, I just think, or know, they missing out of something so simple as ..fun.

Another post with you projecting your definition of fun into the thread. People who use add ons are not missing out on fun.

SFBryan18

I'm the kind of player who buys strategy guides so I don't waste any time. The add ons I currently use are:

Skyshards & Lorebooks
Full Imersion (hides crosshairs)
Dustman (autoloot junk filter)
LootDrop (shows what you pick up from autoloot)
PotionAlert (swaps to needed potion when necessary)
Show Weapons While Mounted

Full Immersion and Mounted Weapons are cosmetic, and the others are to save time. For me, I have more fun when I don't waste time.

The_Death_Princess

While I agree some addons are a lil iffy which side of the line it falls on, this one actually just extends the game ui to be more like Skyrim. It certainly does not give an advantage to a player over another directly in terms of gameplay. I use it for enchant nodes, because the variety of runes is so vast I cant afford to waste time hunting in the wrong spot.

All other materials I see it as pointless, because you can go to x zone and find y ore, fiber, wood, etc. And find tons of it.

sylviermoone

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

I'm remembering the big complaint that this game doesn't have enough exploration. Yet, the top downloaded addons show you where every harvest node, skyshard & lore book locations. In this era of MMO gaming players expect reward without penalty, exploration with no chance of missing anything & their hands held along the way.

To be fair, the particular add on in question from the OP does NOT "give you the location of all the nodes in the game". It merely places a pin on the map of a node you have harvested.

You CAN choose to download a manifest and merge it with your map, which is essentially sharing maps of known nodes with other players. If folks choose to share their data with other players or get data from other players, well, more power to them.

Also, that shared data is by no means complete. We've been using this add on for months at our house, and after having ALL of our known nodes disappear from the map as a result of the last patch, my husband decided to import the latest map info to his account. Only about 60% of the nodes he harvested after that were actually shown from the imported data.

Saying that using this add on is "cheating" though is just plain silly. Whether you're only mapping the nodes you've found or utilizing the compiled data of others makes no difference. It's a personal preference. If it makes the game more enjoyable for someone to not use it, that is awesome. Conversely, it makes the game more enjoyable for others to use it, and there's nothing wrong with that, either.

I fall in the "use it if you got it" camp, in case it wasn't clear.

Soloeus

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

It's a form of cheating in the same manner as buying a guide, looking up a walkthrough, or downloading maps like this. Nothing that violates any rules though.

Would it really be different than finding a map with the resource locations and printing it (or having it up on a second screen) while playing?

This is false.

Using an addon is the same thing as pressing "M" to open the map. Its built into the game, therefore, its not cheating to use a built-in game function. Add-ons are built into the game. An externally published "guide" is not.

Zygor's Guide costs 30 dollars and an Alarming number of people use it. This guide is a built-in game function that walks you through powerleveling. Surely this Pay-Guide-In-Built-Addon-Thing is "less honest" gameplay than using the addon that remembers where you harvested things at.

Cogo

It is not cheating to have a map pointing out anything. Even a map yourself could write in, if that was possible.

Use whatever addon you want, but racing to the top, without looking around, is missing the game. So don't complain about it.

You dont see me complain about having to few skill points, do you?

Powerleveling I do understand, when you have done your 3 char to max level in EQ that takes 4-6 months each, then its nice to use 2 computers and 2 accounts to get your alt up. Fully understand that.

But racing away, missing 90% of the game, then claim boredom? Lost me.

To be clear again, using any addon of your choice is not cheating, it adds to your game. How, thats up to everyone to decide.

Blackwidow

Lyall84 wrote: »

Your foot race anology does not make sense, it is more like one running the race with a map and one without. Just because you see the resources, does not mean you dont have to hoof it and pick it up.

I was just saying the car is a tool that makes it a lot easier to get your goal done. A lot easier than doing the physical work.

Bots would be more like the car, traveling the distance for you.

Maybe a self driving car.

This is clearly not cheating because it does not mess with the games programming or go against TOS.

Right, but I see it as more of an accepted form of cheating. ZOS has allowed it and they call the shots, but it still gives some players an edge in finding the spawn spots, once they have come across them once.

I'm not say it is bad or should not be allowed, just that it makes it a little unfair to those that don't choose to use add ons. Just a little.

This is no different than using a mod that shows you the number and percent value of health on bars instead of just guessing from the size of the bars. Is it cheating that I can see heath at 25% so I know when to spam an execute ability?

Okay, let's not split hairs.

I guess my definition of cheating is not going to be the same as yours.

I see cheating as giving yourself an advantage in a game that others might not have.

It's not a judgement. It is just where my moral compass happens to fall.

Strikah

tried it, but with imported data and a huge file, all the loading screens ingame took 10 times longer .. so uninstalled again. and as said before, so many nodes around anyways so u dont really need it, takes longer to check the map all the time instead of just look for nodes .

Akhratos

Blackwidow wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Your foot race anology does not make sense, it is more like one running the race with a map and one without. Just because you see the resources, does not mean you dont have to hoof it and pick it up.

I was just saying the car is a tool that makes it a lot easier to get your goal done. A lot easier than doing the physical work.

You miss the point where nobody is forced to go on feet. So no, it would not be a foot race, but a race. If some decide to go on foot, good for them. Just dont cry over it.


Now, I feel shocked fun is an universal thing that everybody get in the same way. I could not care less about this random things the devs like to plague their games with to make you take 50+hrs of extra "gameplay" if you want to feel complete.

Things like, Look for the 250 frogs/shells/feathers!! So fun!! No, seriously. I have read everysingle Lore Book, that I find fun in it, but I am not running around the same zone for 2+ hours only to know where a dev decided to put the last one of them.

To me there is no fun in finding a book. There is in reading it. Damn the stupid Eidetic Memory feature stays bugged for 3 months after launch, making me unable to read the rest of the books I found along my way. That is what I would call a fun spoil,

Blackwidow

Archaon wrote: »

You miss the point where nobody is forced to go on feet. So no, it would not be a foot race, but a race. If some decide to go on foot, good for them. Just dont cry over it.

Actually I clearly said some people choose not to use add ons.

I did use the word choose, because they don't want to use them.

To me there is no fun in finding a book. There is in reading it. Damn the stupid Eidetic Memory feature stays bugged for 3 months after launch, making me unable to read the rest of the books I found along my way. That is what I would call a fun spoil,

I use the shard finder and the book finder. I agree, it is more fun to read the book than to worry about finding it.

Again, that is not in the spirit of the game, but ZOS allows it, so be it.

Catches_the_Sun

sylviermoone wrote: »

You CAN choose to download a manifest and merge it with your map, which is essentially sharing maps of known nodes with other players. If folks choose to share their data with other players or get data from other players, well, more power to them.

Case closed?

MeowGinger

sylviermoone wrote: »

Also, that shared data is by no means complete. We've been using this add on for months at our house, and after having ALL of our known nodes disappear from the map as a result of the last patch, my husband decided to import the latest map info to his account. Only about 60% of the nodes he harvested after that were actually shown from the imported data.

Something that might help -- if you go to the .lua file in the SavedVariables folder and right click on it (if using a Windows OS, not sure how this would work on a Mac), you can select the option "Restore previous versions" and you should have a version of the file prior to the patch. (As an aside, you need to be at the character select screen or logged out for changes; SavedVariables files cannot be altered while logged in and they automatically change whenever you return to character select). Make a copy/backup of the file just in case, of course.

Restoring to a previous version of the .lua should do the trick; all your nodes should show up on your map again. If they do not, log out again and replace the (now cleared/reset) .lua file with the backup you just made. Open the .lua (I suggest using Notepad++) and edit the text that says "@AccountName" to just read "". Then everything will function as normal.

Sorry if you tried this already and I got a little too detailed/hand-holdy. I lost all my data when I logged on after the patch, too, but I was able to roll back to a previous version of HarvestMap.lua and fixed it this way. I hope it's helpful.

sylviermoone

@MeowGinger‌: This I haven't actually tried yet. I've quit trying to fix it at this point since everything I have tried hasn't worked for me. I even tried merging with the compiled map, but it bogged down my game so hard I couldn't get past loading.

Seems like I'd lose any locations I've found since then, but that's only like half a zone, as opposed to the many, many zones of info I lost.

Ojustaboo

Interesting topic.

Initially I used it to plot nodes I found, then due to stupidity on my part, lost it all so downloaded the merged database.

Now since my respec I've removed all my keen eyes as I have a map showing me where everything is, and its easy to discover new nodes as they are marked for me.

Sure I could print off a map on the internet etc to do a similar thing, but I would be lying if I said that it wasn't a huge advantage for me (and a big advantage over looking on the web too)

I wanted an expensive horse when I got to vet 1, I got sent to AD for my first vet levels and spent a few evenings just going from one treasure chest to the next, all courtesy of harvestmap and many others were doing the same thing. I made a fortune, selling most of it to the vendor.

Chest after chest in AD starter area, in places I'd never had thought of looking. Simply following the map riding from one to the next.

Filled my inv up with vet gear every 20 odd mins and got my 1000 chest achievement. This simply would have taken much much longer without it, even if I used a map on my second monitor.

That said, now I know where these chests are, I can run a circuit without looking at it.

Then again, I'm now on my 3rd island and when I'm running around, I always pull up the map to see if there's any chests or runes nearby. And while I could look this info up on one of the many websites, the reality is, presding M to check my map takes less than a second, I wouldn't keep checking an online one as often.

So yep, a definite advantage for me, even in PvP, the groups heading somewhere , I find the runes or chests as my map shows me where they are and off I sprint.

Gedalya

This is not a cheat in the conventional sense; as no formal rules are being broken by players using this. If you do not like these then do not use them. We are already having an issue with the developers talking about nerfing vet because of people simply complaining it was too difficult.

Cogo

Blackwidow wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Your foot race anology does not make sense, it is more like one running the race with a map and one without. Just because you see the resources, does not mean you dont have to hoof it and pick it up.

I was just saying the car is a tool that makes it a lot easier to get your goal done. A lot easier than doing the physical work.

Bots would be more like the car, traveling the distance for you.

Maybe a self driving car.

This is clearly not cheating because it does not mess with the games programming or go against TOS.

Right, but I see it as more of an accepted form of cheating. ZOS has allowed it and they call the shots, but it still gives some players an edge in finding the spawn spots, once they have come across them once.

I'm not say it is bad or should not be allowed, just that it makes it a little unfair to those that don't choose to use add ons. Just a little.

This is no different than using a mod that shows you the number and percent value of health on bars instead of just guessing from the size of the bars. Is it cheating that I can see heath at 25% so I know when to spam an execute ability?

Okay, let's not split hairs.

I guess my definition of cheating is not going to be the same as yours.

I see cheating as giving yourself an advantage in a game that others might not have.

It's not a judgement. It is just where my moral compass happens to fall.

what...no reply to my comment which for once exactly what you say?