Animation canceling, exploit or playing as intended?

fyendiarb16_ESO

It feels like a massive exploit to me.

daneyulebub17_ESO

Nah. People think animation is a cool down. It's not. It's animation. If they wanted cool down, they should put it in.

They might yet do that, but until they do, it's not an exploit. It's adept usage of the play mechanics.

NakedSnake

What happens when healing skills cant cancel normal attack animations?

Whisper292

Sorry for being a noob, but what is animation canceling?

daneyulebub17_ESO

Broadly, it's being able to spam attacks much more quickly by taking advantage of the fact that some skills cancel the preceding attack's animation ( the few seconds of the character movement as they execute the skill). Since the animation typically "acts" like a cool down , learning to do interrupt it allows one to execute 2 or 3 skills very quickly, one after the other, instead of spread out.

Divayith

Whisper292 wrote: »

Sorry for being a noob, but what is animation canceling?

You cancel a light attack animation with a spell, you cancel a spell animation with a block. Doing this well allows you to cast more attacks than a player not using animation canceling in the same time frame. It is difficult to master and many use mouse and/or keyboard macros to do this consistently.

jambam817_ESO

If these descriptions are accurate, i can guarantee this will be changed soon. doesn't sound like it was intended by the devs.

frwinters_ESO

Sounds like an exploit to me.

zgrssd

I would say it was a "unintended side effect" that will be fixed.

Unless you need Macros* to use it, using it does not violate the TOS*
If you use Macros you can get banned for using it Macros - but not animation cancel.*


*forbids every 3rd party hardware or software solution that improoves you ingame effectiveness.
Addons are not 3rtd party and some mods (like SweetFX) have been allowed explicitly.

Lyall84

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

It feels like a massive exploit to me.

Exploit, as intended. Just because it is an exploit does not make it cheating, just using the mechanics of the game. People keep throwing the exploit word around and treating it the same as botting or hacking. Until the development decides to correct or change it. It is game mechanics as intended.

Same goes with the people screaming that it isn't an exploit...just accept the fact that it is...just an acceptable one. So stop feeling ashamed about being good or coordinated enough to pull this off. If anything just tell people how to do it, and say that it is up to them to get as good as you now and the ball is in their court.

LariahHunding

It's kinda fun to play around with, but I would not get use to it. It will be fixed.

Fuzzylumpkins

A player does not need a macro or specific gaming mouse bind to do this so it is not an exploit or against tos. It is however an unintended side effect caused by a lack of thought in the execution of coding abilities. The only way this could be corrected, I can see, is to have global cds on all abilities not intended to be insta cast to add a time buffer between using abilities. As a player that goes between attacks and spells constantly I will not deny I love doing 3.5 attacks per second.

This benefits ranged in pvp and certainly benefits dk tanks in pve. It only seems that healers get no benefit from this, unless they cast heal/light attack/etc, but that is an entire other issue.

Writing this out made me think of another issue, healers really get screwed over in this game. All the nerf complaints from exploitable and op abilities are always that of dps and tanks (bash, vamp, bolt,etc) but I do not seem to see many healers on these forums that should be pointing out how absolutely useless and unfriendly healing is in pve/pvp.

fyendiarb16_ESO

Lyall84 wrote: »

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

It feels like a massive exploit to me.

Exploit, as intended. Just because it is an exploit does not make it cheating, just using the mechanics of the game. People keep throwing the exploit word around and treating it the same as botting or hacking. Until the development decides to correct or change it. It is game mechanics as intended.

Same goes with the people screaming that it isn't an exploit...just accept the fact that it is...just an acceptable one. So stop feeling ashamed about being good or coordinated enough to pull this off. If anything just tell people how to do it, and say that it is up to them to get as good as you now and the ball is in their court.

First of all, I am not complaining about it, just wondering whether or not it is intended. You claim it is, but where do you get this from? From what I can see it is taking advantage of something unintended and thus an exploit and should (and probably will) get fixed.

It allows for massive burst damage which is something some pvp players especially complain about because it kills them in 3 seconds flat. Something I am not complaining about since my characters are build to never go solo in pvp (low level and switched to support build when in Cyrodiil) so I go down very fast with or without the use of this.

Whether or not it is an acceptable exploit remains to be seen and is up to Zenimax to decide. Those that use it of course find it so, those that die from it or have too much lag to be ever able to do it... probably don't since it gives an extra edge to those that use it.

Btw I consider those players that manage to use this exploit perfectly, well... much more skillful than I am.

Ser Lobo

In many games, I've seen people rabidly defend their right to exploit this mechanic.

It's all a great argument, until the devs find a way to 'fix' it. Then they come here to these forums, complaining because they are useless now.

In my mind, it's just smarter not to do it to begin with, and learn how to play the game as it was intended to be played. Saves all the relearning and heartache later.

Ser Lobo

They standard argument I've seen is 'It's intended, cause it's in the game right now.'

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to realize how many holes that argument has. But people who want to excuse their behavior don't need logic ... just good enough reasoning to assuage their conscience.

jelliedsoup

Exploit.

Blud

It probably explains getting one-shot by a Sorc in Cyrodiil.

Lyall84

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

A player does not need a macro or specific gaming mouse bind to do this so it is not an exploit or against tos. It is however an unintended side effect caused by a lack of thought in the execution of coding abilities. The only way this could be corrected, I can see, is to have global cds on all abilities not intended to be insta cast to add a time buffer between using abilities. As a player that goes between attacks and spells constantly I will not deny I love doing 3.5 attacks per second.

This benefits ranged in pvp and certainly benefits dk tanks in pve. It only seems that healers get no benefit from this, unless they cast heal/light attack/etc, but that is an entire other issue.

Writing this out made me think of another issue, healers really get screwed over in this game. All the nerf complaints from exploitable and op abilities are always that of dps and tanks (bash, vamp, bolt,etc) but I do not seem to see many healers on these forums that should be pointing out how absolutely useless and unfriendly healing is in pve/pvp.

You say it is not an exploit, but then state it is an unintended consequence...that makes it an exploit. I do agree that it is not against the TOS or a cheat, so therefore ok to use. But still does not change the fact that it is an exploit.

Ragekniv

IMHO, animation canceling is a game mechanic that plays as intended in the game. It's not malicious or an exploit to utilize a broken game mechanic.

Ser Lobo

I would think that if they wanted us to be able to speed up our animations, they would have built the animations to be faster, or given us a button press to do so.

Cancelling an animation (i.e. stopping one to perform another), IS an intended mechanic. Cancelling an animation in order to skip the entire animation and as an end result do more damage? That's where it gets fuzzy.

If they could simply put it where, if you cancel an animation, that skill that you cancelled doesn't do anything? I'd be pretty happy with that.

driosketch

It's neither actually. Sort of like with farming motifs, the devs likely don't consider it an exploit. But you better believe they'll be making adjustments to make it less advantageous. In fact they've already started.

Loco_Mofo

Unintended game mechanic if you ask me. The fact that it's being looked at tells me it's just another unforeseen mechanic that slipped through the cracks.

Postumus

Unintended mechanic. If they meant for you to interrupt animations, why would there be animations of any length? Animations should preclude other attacks - kind of like the opposite of channeling.

Lyall84

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

It feels like a massive exploit to me.

Exploit, as intended. Just because it is an exploit does not make it cheating, just using the mechanics of the game. People keep throwing the exploit word around and treating it the same as botting or hacking. Until the development decides to correct or change it. It is game mechanics as intended.

Same goes with the people screaming that it isn't an exploit...just accept the fact that it is...just an acceptable one. So stop feeling ashamed about being good or coordinated enough to pull this off. If anything just tell people how to do it, and say that it is up to them to get as good as you now and the ball is in their court.

First of all, I am not complaining about it, just wondering whether or not it is intended. You claim it is, but where do you get this from? From what I can see it is taking advantage of something unintended and thus an exploit and should (and probably will) get fixed.

It allows for massive burst damage which is something some pvp players especially complain about because it kills them in 3 seconds flat. Something I am not complaining about since my characters are build to never go solo in pvp (low level and switched to support build when in Cyrodiil) so I go down very fast with or without the use of this.

Whether or not it is an acceptable exploit remains to be seen and is up to Zenimax to decide. Those that use it of course find it so, those that die from it or have too much lag to be ever able to do it... probably don't since it gives an extra edge to those that use it.

Btw I consider those players that manage to use this exploit perfectly, well... much more skillful than I am.

Point to you sir. I have no way of knowing if it is intended. I am just trying to get the people that use this to understand and admit that it is an exploit (and there is nothing wrong with that seeing how Zenimax knows about it and is not banning people) and for the people complaining about it to stop the witch hunt of calling them cheaters when they are just using the games mechanics. Until or if this gets fixed, it is just a style of play.

Worstluck

From my understanding, it is not an exploit, but it is not intended to work that way. I believe that I read a mod stating so and that they are looking into it, but I can't for the life of me find where they stated it. It's extremely easy to do, especially with resto staff, but it can be done with all kinds of weapons and spells. Just left click attack right before you press your spell hotkey. I just naturally started doing it because it felt right.

badmojo

Worstluck wrote: »

From my understanding, it is not an exploit, but it is not intended to work that way.

Is that not the very definition of an exploit?

In video games, an exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

You guys can keep saying it's not an exploit, but it is. What it isn't, is cheating. Everyone should be doing this until they fix it, because if you don't you'll be at the mercy of those who do. Just don't kid yourself, it's totally an exploit.

Worstluck

badmojo wrote: »

Worstluck wrote: »

From my understanding, it is not an exploit, but it is not intended to work that way.

Is that not the very definition of an exploit?

In video games, an exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

You guys can keep saying it's not an exploit, but it is. What it isn't, is cheating. Everyone should be doing this until they fix it, because if you don't you'll be at the mercy of those who do. Just don't kid yourself, it's totally an exploit.

If you want to do the semantics thing, yes it would be exploiting game mechanics, however, it is obvious that ZoS does not share your view, or else they would have banned everyone who uses it, made a statement not do it, or changed it already.

I believe it's being looked into by them, so I hope they can change it. I don't really care for it much to be honest, just started doing it and I do more damage now

Lyall84

Worstluck wrote: »

From my understanding, it is not an exploit, but it is not intended to work that way. I believe that I read a mod stating so and that they are looking into it, but I can't for the life of me find where they stated it. It's extremely easy to do, especially with resto staff, but it can be done with all kinds of weapons and spells. Just left click attack right before you press your spell hotkey. I just naturally started doing it because it felt right.

If not working as intended, that makes it by the very definition an exploit. It just makes it not a cheat like a lot of people are touting.

Hypertionb14_ESO

the issue in my eyes is that this was never a thing in any other ES games.

but then there were never "weapon skills" either.. just slightly differant heavy attacks that cost stam to do.

hell, untill oblivion even light attacks cost stam, and lost accuracy the lower your stam was.

cubansyrusb16_ESO

badmojo wrote: »

Worstluck wrote: »

From my understanding, it is not an exploit, but it is not intended to work that way.

Is that not the very definition of an exploit?

In video games, an exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

You guys can keep saying it's not an exploit, but it is. What it isn't, is cheating. Everyone should be doing this until they fix it, because if you don't you'll be at the mercy of those who do. Just don't kid yourself, it's totally an exploit.

Never link Wikipedia to prove anything, it's like linking Urban Dictionary for the real meanings of words.

Here is how you do it.

Exploit : Make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand.
To make use of ( a situation ) capitalize on and/or benefit from (a situation) which is unintended.

badmojo

Obviously ZOS does share my opinion, or they wouldn't be "looking into it" and would probably have announced that it's an intended game mechanic.

Just because something is an exploit, doesn't mean they have to ban everyone who does it. This exploit in particular is obviously not something they will ban people for, because of how easily someone could unknowingly do it.

I personally hate this fault in the game and i hope they fix it quickly.