Day 1 and Already I Love You, TESO!

Curragraigue

If silence and doughnuts on a plate can be art there is very little that cannot make its way into the very broad definition that we have now applied to the word.

Loving the thread, very interesting. We had a discussion regarding the interaction of male gamers towards female gamers in MMOs come up in a blog thread in our PS guild forum, which seems to be another interrelated issue for female gamers currently. I'm glad that TES games have been addressing some of the problems.

ThreeEyedCrow

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Not sure what studies you are citing specifically, but from my understanding those studies tend to be skewed by women that play "Farmville" or online Euchre on Yahoo! type games. They aren't what you and I would consider a "gamer" per se, but because they play these types of games the researchers usually classify them as such.

I would like to see a study that has data broken out with percentages of women that play the more "hardcore" types of games, like major console releases (Call of Duty, Dark Souls, Assassin's Creed… everything but "Arcade" games) and MMOs like ESO and WoW.

I agree that a genre breakdown per gender would be much more revealing.

Also, while Farmville might skew female numbers, sports games skew male numbers as well as sports games are 99% male probably and a large majority of sports gamers only play sports games like Madden and FIFA not any other types of games.

ThreeEyedCrow

cigarsmoker wrote: »

This has nothing to do with game design and everything to do with HISTORICAL fact. If you were a woman in the time period generally used as a basis for the game you would be in a dress / skirt. IF you decided pants were the way to go you would be shunned at the least, stoned or burned at the worst. Depending on where in the real world you happened to be, of course. So this is a logical depiction of attire in the game.

This only applies to a game with a historical setting (which no popular MMO has) and has zero relevance on any sort of fantasy game, as you know its fantasy not "historical fact". In short, you make a moot point.

cigarsmoker wrote: »

But hey what do I know it's only TV, the most influential device in history.

The printing press was the most influential device in history.

Lalai

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Not sure what studies you are citing specifically, but from my understanding those studies tend to be skewed by women that play "Farmville" or online Euchre on Yahoo! type games. They aren't what you and I would consider a "gamer" per se, but because they play these types of games the researchers usually classify them as such.

I would like to see a study that has data broken out with percentages of women that play the more "hardcore" types of games, like major console releases (Call of Duty, Dark Souls, Assassin's Creed… everything but "Arcade" games) and MMOs like ESO and WoW.

I agree that a genre breakdown per gender would be much more revealing.

Also, while Farmville might skew female numbers, sports games skew male numbers as well as sports games are 99% male probably and a large majority of sports gamers only play sports games like Madden and FIFA not any other types of games.

Excellent point. One of the things I hate when the stat is brought up is the inevitable discussion of what "counts" as a game. Seems to me things keep getting skewed so that girls/women can't/don't belong.

It use to be girls don't play games, which evolved into not many girls play games, and now it's evolved to girls don't play the right games to be counted. I was also kind of musing with my siblings on when exactly it was decided that girls didn't play games. Growing up myself, my siblings, and my friends all shared in the fun that was the Nintendo.. we also had a Sega. Kids in general seemed to enjoy it. When the internet hit is when the separation of boy/girl related to games actually came into play. Now, that is just anecdotal stuff based on my own personal experiences so I'm not sure if it holds true in the grand scheme of things.

That aside, casual games, or Facebook games/apps also can be a gateway into other things. So while, yeah, that person may stick to Farmville now.. maybe they eventually get into SIMs, and then Sim City, and then other games by that franchise. People are complicated and most don't stick to one type of game for all eternity. They have different tastes and branch out after first being introduced to something.

Anyway, on topic.. I do appreciate the armor options in this game. That's one of the things I also appreciated about FFXIV. The armor can be practical and sexy.

Singular

cigarsmoker wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

cigarsmoker wrote: »

This has nothing to do with game design and everything to do with HISTORICAL fact.

You know what I absolutely love about this statement? Apart from it's obvious historical inaccuracy, it's how men can argue, with a straight face, that women have to wear a dress because it's historical reality and at the same time insist she should run around in latex lingerie because TES is fantasy game.

cigarsmoker wrote: »

If it is as short sighted and prejudiced as this link you posted:

...

I don't think you'll pass muster for that Ph.D, sorry.

How fortunate for me the trustees and faculty of the Department of Art History at Georgetown University get to make that decision - and not you.

cigarsmoker wrote: »

Men's power and status in the real world IS diminishing. His home is no longer his castle, and his only area of control might be his Garage or Yard.

And I think we have a winner here ...

Historically everyone wore skirts, but at a point the fashion/practicality trends changed and women wore skirts. I never said you had to wear a skirt. For all I care you can run around naked doing cartwheels shouting "I am queen of the lobster people". No skin off my nose there.

I'm sure your paper will be much better written than the one you posted. You've shown yourself to be a much better writer in the few paragraphs you've posted here as compared to the whole of that woman's paper. I'm sure your Art History Trustee's will appreciate that level of writing and readability considering how much awful writing passes their desk every year.

If you don't see how men are slowly being knocked down in status in the real world I don't know what to tell you. Maybe watch any sitcom for a few episodes? See how it's always the 'goofy and idiot father figure' and the 'intelligent and in control mother figure' portrayed. But hey what do I know it's only TV, the most influential device in history.

Men and women's dress changes throughout history and across cultures. Many men in America and Japan are now wearing make-up - which would have been unthinkable 20 years ago, but was normal 150 years ago.

If men are losing status, two comments:
1. that's a good thing. the genders should have equal access to economic, health, and nutritional resources. When men control these, women are left with being second citizens. No culture has ever had women control these, so the opposite situation is difficult to speak to.
2. only non-elite men are losing status (relative to women). In the wealthy classes, men still dominate.

Singular

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

cigarsmoker wrote: »

This has nothing to do with game design and everything to do with HISTORICAL fact. If you were a woman in the time period generally used as a basis for the game you would be in a dress / skirt. IF you decided pants were the way to go you would be shunned at the least, stoned or burned at the worst. Depending on where in the real world you happened to be, of course. So this is a logical depiction of attire in the game.

This only applies to a game with a historical setting (which no popular MMO has) and has zero relevance on any sort of fantasy game, as you know its fantasy not "historical fact". In short, you make a moot point.

cigarsmoker wrote: »

But hey what do I know it's only TV, the most influential device in history.

The printing press was the most influential device in history.

I think part of the point @Irishgamergirl is trying to raise is that, in whatever game you're playing, the representation of the genders reflects cultural and societal norms (and also choices by the design team, possibly to portray genders in a specific way).

Katarina

I can't wait to see how you feel about ESO from Day 25 onwards

GreySix

Katarina wrote: »

I can't wait to see how you feel about ESO from Day 25 onwards

Sure you can.

ThreeEyedCrow

Singular wrote: »

I think part of the point @Irishgamergirl is trying to raise is that, in whatever game you're playing, the representation of the genders reflects cultural and societal norms (and also choices by the design team, possibly to portray genders in a specific way).

Oh I agree with that point. What I think is a moot point and irrelevant is cigarsmoker bringing up "historical fact" as some kind of bizarre justification for design of fantasy games.

IrishGirlGamer

Or the (un)representation. Hilariously, Assassin's Creed announced at E3 2014 last week that the opportunity to play as a female had been cut from production because of a "lack of resources."

You can actually hear about here: http://www.polygon.com/e3-2014/2014/6/11/5800522/female-characters-assassins-creed-video

Seriously??

I cannot say this enough: Thank you so much TESO for leading that curve. Way to go!

@Katarina: I'll let you know how it goes.

@Lalai: Awesome post. And I have this sudden urge to send you all the bait I have ...

BTOG46

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Or the (un)representation. Hilariously, Assassin's Creed announced at E3 2014 last week that the opportunity to play as a female had been cut from production because of a "lack of resources."

You can actually hear about here: http://www.polygon.com/e3-2014/2014/6/11/5800522/female-characters-assassins-creed-video

Seriously??

I've been hiding in the Ubi Admins/Moderators Forum since that announcement, there are a LOT of angry females in the AC forums at the moment, lol, there are quite a few angry Ubi Forum Managers too, most of them are female and keen gamers.

I'm the frightened looking Global Moderator trying to hide in the shadows right now on those boards. O_o

ers101284b14_ESO

BTOG46 wrote: »

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Or the (un)representation. Hilariously, Assassin's Creed announced at E3 2014 last week that the opportunity to play as a female had been cut from production because of a "lack of resources."

You can actually hear about here: http://www.polygon.com/e3-2014/2014/6/11/5800522/female-characters-assassins-creed-video

Seriously??

I've been hiding in the Ubi Admins/Moderators Forum since that announcement, there are a LOT of angry females in the AC forums at the moment, lol, there are quite a few angry Ubi Forum Managers too, most of them are female and keen gamers.

I'm the frightened looking Global Moderator trying to hide in the shadows right now on those boards. O_o

Why is this AC different? The other ones where male dominated.

BTOG46

They introduced a female player quest line in AC 4 Black Flag, Aveline de Grandpré.

In multiplayer games, female characters have been available since AC2 Brotherhood

When I attended an AC 3 invitation only preview evening, there were several fans who turned up dressed as female characters from earlier games in the series, the courtesans from AC2 being the most popular.

Yoshie

I'm happy that you can edit the character and I had to delete my first because she had a very.. deep voice. But eventually I got it right.