Risk vs. Reward- when was the last time you actually equipped something you looted?

RoCoL

The VR levels are tough. Not being properly rewarded makes them almost unbearable.

My job flexibility allows me to game many hours a week, yet I am not a hard core gamer. I am a VR9 that started early beta access. I enjoy reading the books, listening to the stories and so far in general enjoyed the entire content in the game. I try and kill most anything in my path, I try and utilize every tool in my 'tool box' - always trying new skills and skill combinations but the rewards for such a grind have become non-existent. I am not an uber gamer, but competent and persistent.

Currently I quest in the VR zones that are 1 level below my VR level and find them to be fun and challenging, but not rewarding.

Since VR 4, between myself and my four buds, everything I use is crafted station gear. My jewelry is a 3 piece set that is VR1 (the same set can be found in higher levels, but I have not come across them yet) Currently the drops are nigh worthless.

Any weapon, armor, jewelry drop are nothing but measly gold or mats. The gold is not great enough to justify going after the 'elusive' green and occasional blue that you will not use anyway, and most likely die a few times trying to get. Honestly cannot remember when the last time I pulled a 'purple' - not that it would matter, It would get passed on, or sold, because its worthless to my set....

There is certainly risk adventuring in the VR zones but the rewards are non-existent.

How about a boss that drops a nice set piece(s) from the local crafting station(s)? This may or may not compliment your set, but it has more worth -not necessarily gold value- than something your just going to break down or ah/sell anyway.

How about VR rewards that give hard stat boots?

How about VR purple food drops that last 6 hours?

How about armor dyes as drops?

I am not much of a pvp player but have been spending more time in Cyrodiil as the battle is more rewarding, or fulfilling, than questing. But I'm not even using those rewards, because once again, my crafted set pieces are more complimentary to my avatar than the drops.

This lack of reward will have significant impact on long term players. Now I am able to craft 'lowbie' gear for any new toons I wish to roll up rendering most quest given, loot drops worthless to the new toon. So at level 10 my 'newbie' really has no incentive to do anything but get xp in the least dangerous way.

Gisgo

While you are not wrong, its really a matter of point of view.
Personally i hate having to hunt for loot and the fact that i can craft anything i need makes me very happy.

Aeradon

Sounds good. But I hate to repair so I wear the freshest gears. Plus I have 2 more levels to go for medium armours.

RoCoL

Gisgo wrote: »

While you are not wrong, its really a matter of point of view.
Personally i hate having to hunt for loot and the fact that i can craft anything i need makes me very happy.

It made me happy too. At VR4 I felt great!. Now its just, "oh, another level, must go craft appropriate gear and sell all this crap in my inventory."

PBpsy

The rings and amulet looted in the last 2 weeks. Simple VR11 Purple.

rblown1988b16_ESO

On the plus side, the golden saint costume made my corpse look good for a while. It did take my mind off not getting rewarded enough for actually progressing, for about five minutes.

Seriously though, I agree with everything the OP has said. VR content admittedly should be hard, however there should be more rewards for passing the harder content. Such as gaining a skill point upon each rank, which can only be spent on a new veteran skill line. This skill line can be added on over time to accommodate the inevitable increase in ranks and provide a sort of alternate advancement system.

Or allow us to morph a maxed out skill a second time with said points to either include the previous morph we didn't select or an entirely new set of morphs. Granted this would introduce more balance issues however it could be something to at least consider, hell anything is better than "Oh joy, another VR and so little gain."

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Yesterday I got a really nice vr7 blue ring that dropped from a standard mob that I use. I also used an off hand dagger about 4 weeks ago for a day or two. Else I can't remember using any drops.

I am a maxed out crafter able to make 6 trait sets atm. There is little reason for me to use any loot for anything but deconstruction or research.

And I am fine with that. The gear chase is always what drives me from mmos.

RoCoL

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Yesterday I got a really nice vr7 blue ring that dropped from a standard mob that I use. I also used an off hand dagger about 4 weeks ago for a day or two. Else I can't remember using any drops.

I am a maxed out crafter able to make 6 trait sets atm. There is little reason for me to use any loot for anything but deconstruction or research.

And I am fine with that. The gear chase is always what drives me from mmos.

Its not just gear. We need rewards we can use. Be it gear, or -anything- there is no real reward if you craft or know someone who does.

Fleymark

I looted a blue weapon that was an upgrade midway thru VR3. Got replaced when I hit VR4 and crafted a new full set.

I dig being able to craft my own gear, tho.

RoCoL

Fleymark wrote: »

I looted a blue weapon that was an upgrade midway thru VR3. Got replaced when I hit VR4 and crafted a new full set.

I dig being able to craft my own gear, tho.

I really enjoy the crafting as well. It is, however, making drops worthless, not just worth less.

Maybe a boss drop could be unique in appearance but allow the player to add his own trait and buff to it. Or add an additional buff, which would be an actual 'reward'.

AlexDougherty

Two days ago, still low level, occassionally get a few good items, and of course set bonuses are still a major attraction too.

Researching traits like mad, finding that the only one I can research on a character atm takes seven days doesn't help, but I will get there. I may not be entirely sane at the end, but I will get there.

Falmer

Honestly, once I discovered set items and have crafters that can make them.... the ONLY pieces of dropped loot that get consideration are the non-crafted set items.

My mages carry warlock sets, for instance. Other than that... even purple drops that aren't a set item will be deconstructed for parts.

AreoHotah

After the 1st zone i never equiped something i looted and that was in the early acces. Feels like Diablo 3 all over again.

Fleymark

RoCoL wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

I looted a blue weapon that was an upgrade midway thru VR3. Got replaced when I hit VR4 and crafted a new full set.

I dig being able to craft my own gear, tho.

I really enjoy the crafting as well. It is, however, making drops worthless, not just worth less.

Maybe a boss drop could be unique in appearance but allow the player to add his own trait and buff to it. Or add an additional buff, which would be an actual 'reward'.

Well, the value is there if you craft or not. I use drops as patchup gear between crafted sets so I don't have to craft new sets as often. Also for decon exp and research and is also a source of crafting materials including improvement mats and things like daedric hearts.

If I didn't craft I would get more use out of drops, too, I'm sure.

Also bear in mind that dropped sets tend to be the better ones compared to crafted and dropped armor can be improved with crafting even though it's a drop.

I find it kind of refreshing in an MMO for crafting to be on an equal footing or better than drops, personally. I'm not opposed to doing it again and had fun with it, but I did enough camps and farming in other games to last a lifetime.

RoCoL

[/quote]
Well, the value is there if you craft or not. I use drops as patchup gear between crafted sets so I don't have to craft new sets as often. Also for decon exp and research and is also a source of crafting materials including improvement mats and things like daedric hearts.
[/quote]

I craft and my black smith is lvl 50 w/6-7 traits and plans to research to completion. Ive even begun researching light, medium armors and bows and staves - just for something else to do with items I found. If I play this game long enough perhaps Ill craft anything I wish. Crafting is a great joy of mine in what few mmo's I have played, this one more than others in fact. I enjoy it in the RPG's as well.

With what I know now, and my four buddies -Im not very social- I have no need for drops other than a few gold or mats. That is not very rewarding for completing challenging to very difficult content in the VR areas.

I am an advocate for loot drops that are not necessarily arms and armor and jewelry. Something -anything- that is truly rewarding for your time and effort (and r/l currency, I might add). If the game is not rewarding past a certain level- and that level continues to lower as crafting knowledge increases on the higher toon that can craft and bank for the lowbie- the game overall loses value.

Apophiss

RoCoL wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

I looted a blue weapon that was an upgrade midway thru VR3. Got replaced when I hit VR4 and crafted a new full set.

I dig being able to craft my own gear, tho.

I really enjoy the crafting as well. It is, however, making drops worthless, not just worth less.

Maybe a boss drop could be unique in appearance but allow the player to add his own trait and buff to it. Or add an additional buff, which would be an actual 'reward'.

How about adding the ability, by using 5-10 skill points, to learn the unique style/appearance of the gear? Stats would have to be in line with the crafted gear of the appropriate level, but the cosmetic could be the same

nerevarine1138

Well, once you can craft good set items, the only looted items you will find to match them will be other set items.

But I actually like that the game doesn't make crafters useless.

Svann

I did get a purple fire staff that Ive been skilling up in my off weapon set.
IMO crafted gear should not be the best gear. It should be the go to gear to use while you hope and pray for the dropped gear to drop, and that gear should take long enough to get that people will want to use crafted gear in the meantime.

Tavore1138

There are some good sets that drop but often they only drop at a single level, for example the VR6 Nightshade set is great for a stealth player but two levels on you start thinking about the better defence from the next set.

I think they limited themselves early by saying the best gear would come from crafting, they have come close to breaking that already with a couple of sets dropping in Craglorn.

I think it is important that dropped sets should mainly be green, with blue rare & purple very rare. Purple & gold sets should be the product of work either by crafters or those willing to get the gold to pay crafters. If they drop too much they lose their value. A game should never be too much grind but it should also take serious effort of some kind to get a set of golden armour & weapons.

I think they could fix this and still keep their promise by making dropped sets drop at all levels so gear hunters can get something good but also make dropped sets researchable by crafters so they can make customised ones with specific traits & enchantments.

Everyone wins.

babylon

I don't craft a thing only ever equip drops. Works out fine for me.

Waiting to VR12 to craft ***.

Arsenic_Touch

They've admitted that itemization needs work. Crafting should never make the best gear but it essentially does, doing so trivializes your efforts. The best gear should be drops only, upgraded by crafting and supplemented by crafting, not surpassed by it.

They forgot to bait the stick with a carrot in this game.

I've never seen a purple drop and go "yay, upgrade" despite running dungeons, the drops are mainly just component salvage.

They need to rework the dropped sets and the crafting sets, a lot of them are crap.

They should make it so when you find a dropped set, you can learn the design and replicate it for yourself at any level. That way the best items are still earned while keeping crafting useful.

They can even make some exclusive bound sets that truly have to be earned and can't just be bought on the market and bypass the effort needed for it.

Tavore1138

@Arsenic_Touch‌ - the problem is they made quite a deal pre-launch about crafting being the way to get the best sets, they made a very solid system around this that drains a lot of skill points to acquire.

If they do a U turn on that they are going to have a lot of grumpy crafters on their hands.

indytims_ESO

This always turns into a chicken or egg conversation.

If drops end up being 'good enough' to be worn over crafted gear, then crafters will whine that their stuff isn't good enough.

If crafters make the best stuff in the game, well... then you have threads like this one.

And if they are exactly even... then it feels like one/both are kinda pointless.

joshisanonymous

Just want to point out that you can upgrade dropped items. It doesn't much matter if your drops are blue, green, or even white, because you can just upgrade them all the way to legendary anyway. You don't even have to be a crafter to do this.

I think it's setup pretty good right now. There are some dropped sets that I want and there are crafted sets that I make. And, of course, you can't make accessories at all, or even upgrade those, so you actually have to farm them exclusively. It's pretty refreshing to have an MMO place so much value on crafters, though.

RoCoL

indytims_ESO wrote: »

This always turns into a chicken or egg conversation.

If drops end up being 'good enough' to be worn over crafted gear, then crafters will whine that their stuff isn't good enough.

If crafters make the best stuff in the game, well... then you have threads like this one.

And if they are exactly even... then it feels like one/both are kinda pointless.

Dude, I really like the game. Again, im advocating for meaningful drops. Doesnt have to be arms and armor and jewelry. Its more about crafting quality [snip], which is cool, but renders looted items worthless and the need to make the rewards, whatever they may be, worth something, otherwise the grind will eventually wear even the ardent supporter down.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

ers101284b14_ESO

About an hour ago I was running a public dungeon and got a sword and Pants that where better than what I crafted at that same level.

I do however notice that drops and crafted are around the same and neither one is vastly superior. I like it this way since I can craft and make it my own or can loot and still do just fine.

RoCoL

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Just want to point out that you can upgrade dropped items. It doesn't much matter if your drops are blue, green, or even white, because you can just upgrade them all the way to legendary anyway. You don't even have to be a crafter to do this.

I think it's setup pretty good right now. There are some dropped sets that I want and there are crafted sets that I make. And, of course, you can't make accessories at all, or even upgrade those, so you actually have to farm them exclusively. It's pretty refreshing to have an MMO place so much value on crafters, though.

my accessories, whether through luck or whatever, I had acquired by VR 1. A 3 piece set and I have yet to find any suitable replacements for. So grinding another 8 VR levels and still using said set, is pretty sad.

The overall rewards really suck for the effort. For those that have reading comprehension issues or just skip reading and reply using what they think the content may be about, ill say this again.....and again, and again and again, the rewards do not have to be arms and armor and jewelry but make them meaningful.

Rewarding rewards reward both the crafter and those who do not craft by giving them something for doing something difficult.

Tavore1138

Jewelry sets is one area they could actually go wild and offer good bonuses without stepping on the toes of crafters.

Costumes that have bonuses when worn that are given as quest or dungeon rewards would work as well. But each would have to come tuned to the class or they would lose the disguise value... Sort of 'if DK then any fir hit gets 4 extra dam', 'if nb then stealth radius is reduced by 5%' and so on.

Might be cool but the bugs would be epic!

AngryWolf

Yesterday. Though I agree, drops in the game for tough content could be improved.

RoCoL

Apologies for the wall of text in the OP. For those who failed to read the entire piece, here is the premise:

This is not meant to flame crafters or non crafters.

We simply need a reward system that actually rewards for the real difficulty VR levels present.

As of now it does not.

Its a pittance for the grind we go through. Doubly so, I suppose, if you already have access to crafted gear and dont need the garbage that drops.

Rewards should offer something MORE THAN ARMS, ARMOR AND JEWELRY.

Reykice

When i asked my friend for his Wildstar account to see what all the hype is about...

That was the last time i did other fun things like own a "house", do a battleground and so on...

Maybe in 2-3 years ESO will also add them but we`ll see who is still left by then.